Conference Realignment Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Likely just a scare tactic for other members, and it'll probably be as futile as the legal action
JMU could but Delaware won't. A school to watch is Liberty. They have the facilities to do it and Turner Gill is their head coach. They did a feasibility study last year and announced their intentions to move up to FBS, but did not get an invite anywhere. Their religious affiliation might scare some conferences away, but if they are in need of schools to fill slots then they are in play.
In a Yahoo story about Urban Meyer
Wisconsin would be in an eastern division without any teams in states they border. With Penn St being "sanction-devastated" for 5 years or so, Michigan and Michigan St should be in there, with Purdue going west.
Anyone else find it funny that the ACC is suing a departing member? I assume high-and-mighty Father Leahy didn't sign off on this action, correct?
Per Andrew Porter, in the latest ACC voting Louisville is reportedly in the lead, but neither the Cardinals nor UConn have received the required 75%. Louisville remains one vote short per Mark Blaudschun.
Since they actually have a reason to sue based on agreed upon conference terms, no. I'm also unaware of any personal lawsuits against Maryland's AD or president.
ACC to hold a 7 a.m. conference call. Speculation is they're expected to vote in Louisville to replace Maryland.
I think this is a huge loss for the Big 12, now unless they pillage the ACC they have nobody to add
The biggest loser by far with conference realignment is still UConn. and I can't imagine it's even close witih loser #2.
The only hope I have is that realigment still isn't over and at some point I would imagine the SEC or B1G might want to pluck a few teams from the ACC at which point maybe UConn will have hope. But the waiting game is brutal.
I feel for UConn. I was actually hoping they would join us in moving to he ACC.
I hope that that football heavies, who are pushing Ville, are making a real commitment to stick around in exchange.
I hope that that football heavies, who are pushing Ville, are making a real commitment to stick around in exchange.
Really good move for the ACC. Improves the product on the field (and court), which is becoming rare in realignment.
In the short term, losing Louisville might help the Big East. I'd have to believe UConn is a far more important member of the conference when it comes to TVs and eyeballs, and the value of any forthcoming TV contracts will be higher than they would have been had they left and Louisville stayed. So their chances of retaining Boise St and SDSU have probably improved -- assuming the rest of the conference membership remains intact.
As far as the Big 12 goes, Cincinnati wouldn't bring the same cachet as Louisville, but they'd still be a solid addition if brought aboard with FSU/Clemson/GT.
EDIT - Also, this has to make UMass the favorite to replace Louisville in the Big East, right?
As far as the Big 12 goes, Cincinnati wouldn't bring the same cachet as Louisville, but they'd still be a solid addition if brought aboard with FSU/Clemson/GT.
EDIT - Also, this has to make UMass the favorite to replace Louisville in the Big East, right?
ACC invites the 'Ville, spurns UConn again. The reason? UConn has no other viable options so they will be there to invite in the future in case more members flee. It sucks being the ugly girl willing to put out at the dance, and when everyone else is paired up, someone finally gets around to you.
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-uconn-acc-1129-20121128,0,7749244.story
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-uconn-acc-1129-20121128,0,7749244.story
That absolutely plays into it. Another factor is that the ACC's TV deals are fairly set in stone, so the appeal of UConn's market population was of less value than it would have been to, say, the Big Ten had Rutgers inexplicably passed on membership.
Also Louisville's athletics finances are in stark contrast to Maryland's. Per Kristi Dosh:
Think about that bolded sentence for a moment. Louisville's basketball profits were about equal to UNC's and Duke's combined.
Middle Tennessee State is moving to C-USA.
https://twitter.com/Harry_MiniumVP/status/273824122818162689
It would certainly make a lot of sense, but UMass never seems to be on the Big East's radar.
I'm not a fan of this move at all. Louisville is an embarrassing academic addition with no TV market, and their football, while currently better than UConn's, does not add anything to the conference.
The fact that the ACC refused to add West Virginia last year, only to get stuck with Louisville this year, shows what a poorly-run and shortsighted organization it is.
The fact that the ACC refused to add West Virginia last year, only to get stuck with Louisville this year, shows what a poorly-run and shortsighted organization it is.
Bad day for UConn and its fans but not the end of the world. Knowing what we know about realignment, I would bet that it happens again and sooner rather than later. B1G/Big 12/SEC may say they are fine now, but can we really be sure at this point? Shoot, who knows, maybe the ACC even becomes more proactive about adding schools. Either way, with other conferences still expanding (and likely raiding the ACC) and the tectonic shifting that the most recent round of expansion has led to, my guess would be that UConn will get its invite booty call from the ACC within the next year and a half.
Back when there was the football BE and the old ACC, I thought that the conferences might merge and have a the East Coast version of the Pac 10. Looks like as of this morning that the merger has finally taken place, absent only Penn State. To make the old guards feel good, I would suggest that they reset the alignment of the divisions and rename them the Dave Gavitt and Gene Corrigan divisions They could look like this:
DG: BC, Miami, Louisville, Va Tech, Syr, Pitt, Clemson;
GC: Ga Tech, UNC, NCST, UVA, FSU, Duke, Wake
They all play each other in their dvsisions with one cross over "rival" and then pick up 1 other every year. You get your 8 games and really it would be like the old BE in one division and the old ACC in the other. I would move the ACCCG to the home field of the highest ranked team, like the Pac 12 does. It keeps traditional rivalries, allows OOC games and maybe it creates a better brand of football and more interest in places like BC and Syracuse.
As for UConn....I think they are the safety choice as was discussed above. If there are any more defections, they come on board. But Christ, what a situatin for them. No super conference really wants them. I don;t really get it to be honest at this point. Is it their location? TV market? NCAA issues with hoops? all of that, none of that??
DG: BC, Miami, Louisville, Va Tech, Syr, Pitt, Clemson;
GC: Ga Tech, UNC, NCST, UVA, FSU, Duke, Wake
They all play each other in their dvsisions with one cross over "rival" and then pick up 1 other every year. You get your 8 games and really it would be like the old BE in one division and the old ACC in the other. I would move the ACCCG to the home field of the highest ranked team, like the Pac 12 does. It keeps traditional rivalries, allows OOC games and maybe it creates a better brand of football and more interest in places like BC and Syracuse.
As for UConn....I think they are the safety choice as was discussed above. If there are any more defections, they come on board. But Christ, what a situatin for them. No super conference really wants them. I don;t really get it to be honest at this point. Is it their location? TV market? NCAA issues with hoops? all of that, none of that??
It's still hard for me to process the appeal of Rutgers, which won conference titles in nothing, over UConn. I have lived in Connecticut most of my life, but I was born in Jersey and had hundreds of relatives there. One of my uncles pitched for Seton Hall and was drafted by the (ugh) Yankees, so there should have been some college interest in my Jersey family. But what did they care about? The New York Giants, the Mets and the Knicks. Maybe things have changed in Jersey, but I think the Big Ten is in for a shock if it thinks it's going to get these fabulous TV ratings in that market. In Connecticut, however, they live and breathe UConn (although the split affinity for the NY-Boston pro sports is obviously huge, too)... seems like it should have been a no-brainer for the Connecticut market to be very appealing. Not to mention attractive to advertisers because of its relative affluence. The whole thing puzzles me.
But it isn't about ratings, per se. Sure, they're nice when it's time to renegotiate deals with sponsors. But for the Big Ten adding Rutgers (and Maryland) was all about subscriber fees for its network. For every household their channel is carried in by cable & satellite providers, the Big Ten gets a percentage of the monthly bill payment. And there's no place in the US where those fees add up to a higher sum than the NY-NJ-CT tri-state area.
Even if Rutgers and Maryland both suck, the Big Ten also gets a chance to build their brand and sell it to the northeast and mid-Atlantic markets. If another BT school has a lottery pick basketball player or a Heisman candidate, people in those regions are going to want to watch them -- especially when they're playing against either of the local schools.
This perhaps unintended consequence could potentially make it an eventual loss for the ACC. If the Big 12 feels pressed now that Louisville is off the board, one of the first schools they may look to could be FSU (along with maybe Clemson). Just my opinion, but I think a football-centric school like FSU jumps in a second for the chance to matchup against Texas, OU, and the grab bag of KSU, OSU, WVU and TCU- one of whom is probably going ot turn in an interesting season.
Tough situation for the ACC. Had they added UConn, I think FSU would have been looking for the exit of an increasingly basketball oriented conference. Instead the ACC adds a team that football-wise is, at the moment, an upgrade over Maryland. But in doing so may be stoking the Big 12's interest in FSU.
The other issue is the oft-stated belief that UF, UGA, USC and UK all have agreed to block any other schools from those states from joining the SEC. As such, the conference is off-limits in discussions regarding GaTech, FSU, Miami, Clemson and Louisville. If the Big 12 feels that the realignment tremors could alter that stance, they may also feel pressed to go after ACC programs now, rather than wait for a likely more attractive SEC to suddenly become more welcoming.
I've felt since the Rutgers/Maryland announcement that the next decisive steps will be the final determination of Maryland's exit fee, and subsequently the actions of Florida State (and, from many reports, Clemson). While I don't think the basketball focused SEC schools would have too much of an issue with exit of those schools in isolation, it would likely cause issues for VaTech, who may then look to the SEC, perhaps along with NC State. Given that the "lesser" schools would be safe in an elite conference, I don't think the state gov's would have an issue, as UNC and UVA aren't going to be left out in the cold at the end of the day.
Or perhaps nothing else happens.
So is FAU
That's four schools jumping ship from the Sun Belt to C-USA, with North Texas and Fla Int'l doing so mid-2013.
If I were UVA (or any of the other ACC schools with mediocre football) I'd very much be worried about being left out. Even Duke, although they at least have a compelling basketball program and a chance at talking to Georgetown, UConn, etc about putting together a basketball-centric conference if the ACC dies. But if you have mediocre football and non-elite basketball then you can't even be assured that you'll get an invitation to that, and UVA still would like to remain in a football conference I imagine.
Hitching a ride with VaTech football is UVA's clearest path to being in a major conference when the dust settles.
And the WAC is dead with Western Kentucky, and New Mexico State joining MTSU and FAU in conference USA making them the first super conference (17 hoop schools by 2014) https://twitter.com/dkurtenbach/status/273914137246040065
Conflicting reports out there. This one says nay on the WKY move.
And as far as the WAC being dead, they already were in football, and they're currently on life support in basketball.
Some scuttlebutt on Louisville's acceptance and UConn's omission. Looks like it came down to (1) The ACC's FB schools have louder voices than their BB & academics stawarts, and (2) The "Louisville's got a million horny guys chasing her, but ugly & lonely UConn will suck me off any time I get drunk and call her up" thing Plantier's Wart mentioned upthread.
Eric Crawford ‏@ericcrawford
Jurich said UofL's biggest advocates were Florida State, Clemson and Syracuse.
Kevin Nathan @KevinNathanNBC
Sources tell me 4 ACC schools gave UConn support: Wake Forest, Duke, North Carolina and Virginia.
Kevin Nathan ‏@KevinNathanNBC
Sources tell me ACC feels they can get UConn at anytime and that Louisville had leverage since they've had eye on Big 12.
Eric Crawford ‏@ericcrawford
Jurich said UofL's biggest advocates were Florida State, Clemson and Syracuse.
Kevin Nathan @KevinNathanNBC
Sources tell me 4 ACC schools gave UConn support: Wake Forest, Duke, North Carolina and Virginia.
Kevin Nathan ‏@KevinNathanNBC
Sources tell me ACC feels they can get UConn at anytime and that Louisville had leverage since they've had eye on Big 12.
More on Louisville/ACC from SI's Pete Thamel. We all know UConn & Cinci lobbying for acceptance was no secret, but according to him Navy and South Florida also made their cases. Also:
Louisville's football coach, credited with the current success of the program, doesn't look like he cares to stick around to sustain that success in the ACC.
Rumors also have him interested in the Arkansas gig. Can't blame him for wanting to jump ship, but I have to give props to the Louisville folks for keeping this under wraps until AFTER they were invited to join the ACC. Taking Louisville over UConn will look... short-sided... when a couple years from now Louisville and UConn have the same record and a big football school or two bolt the ACC anyway.
Mark Blaudschun suggests the Big East go after Fresno State as a football-only school to give them two 7-team divisions:
EAST - UConn, Temple, Navy, Central Florida, South Florida, Tulane, East Carolina
WEST - Boise St, San Diego St, Fresno St, Houston, SMU, Memphis, Cincinnati
For hoops, he suggests bringing aboard two of Xavier, Butler, Dayton and George Mason in basketball for two 9-team divisions, the first mainly Catholic schools and original Big East members and the other mostly former C-USA members.
NORTH - St. John’s, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, DePaul, Providence, UConn, Temple
SOUTH - Central Florida, South Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Cincinnati, Tulane, New #1, New #2
Can't imagine anything that would piss Cincinnati off more than this arrangement. They'd get stuck in the West for football, and the far less appealing South for hoops. To top if off, they could end up sharing their market with Xavier &/or Dayton. If the Bearcats and Tulane were swapped out in football (also solving a major time zone dilemma), and the two new schools were Butler & GMU (or VCU?) to avoid the SE Ohio overkill, that would be far more workable.
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EAST - UConn, Temple, Navy, Central Florida, South Florida, Tulane, East Carolina
WEST - Boise St, San Diego St, Fresno St, Houston, SMU, Memphis, Cincinnati
For hoops, he suggests bringing aboard two of Xavier, Butler, Dayton and George Mason in basketball for two 9-team divisions, the first mainly Catholic schools and original Big East members and the other mostly former C-USA members.
NORTH - St. John’s, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, DePaul, Providence, UConn, Temple
SOUTH - Central Florida, South Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Cincinnati, Tulane, New #1, New #2
Can't imagine anything that would piss Cincinnati off more than this arrangement. They'd get stuck in the West for football, and the far less appealing South for hoops. To top if off, they could end up sharing their market with Xavier &/or Dayton. If the Bearcats and Tulane were swapped out in football (also solving a major time zone dilemma), and the two new schools were Butler & GMU (or VCU?) to avoid the SE Ohio overkill, that would be far more workable.
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Great column from Dennis Dodd on why the Big 12 is pumped and jacked to have just 10 teams now and for the foreseeable future:
Bernie, all due respect, Dave Gavitt would roll over in his grave if his name was associated with a still largely-southern conference. He was a Northeastern basketball guy first and foremost.
The fact that Cuse and Pitt have moved to the ACC would make him vomit. The only reason as a UConn fan I wanted to get into the ACC is because that's where our biggest rivals are. Other than that Fuckem.
Is it me or are UConn fans the only Big East BB/FB fans who wanted everything to stay the way they were? I enjoyed hating on the ACC, I enjoyed our basketball-first rivalries with some football thrown in. I love the BET in Madison Square Garden. Cuse and Pitt gone, but I guess at least UConn, G-town, St Johns and Nova will still give it that NE basketball feeling. Maybe Temple and Providence is on the upswing.
Oh well.
Louisville football is much bigger than Charlie Strong. they have won at least 9 games in 7 of the past 13 years. They had a bad run under the disasterous Steve Kragthorpe, but Petrino won huge there, and John L Smith won 2/3 of his games in his 5 years
I guess UConn and Louisville may have the same record in a couple of years, but what will that mean? Louisville will be playing a schedule that features FSU, Clemson, etc. And sadly Uconn looks like they will be playing in what is basically the MAC.
Right now Bama and Kent St have the same record, does that mean anything? (Well I guess it may mean something as KSU may get to go to a BCS bowl)
I think it is only UConn that wanted things to stay the way they were. Once the BE was first raided back in the early 2000's, the world of college sports changed. Everyone knew it and it became a case of survival. I used Gavitt's name only to make a point that when you line up the teams you see that 6 of the 14 teams in the ACC (well 7 of 15 if you include ND) are former BE programs...essentially the "old" BE and the "old" ACC merged.
When you look at the league as it is set up now, honestly it doesn;t look that bad in both football and basketball. I agree that it won't last and at this point I would be happy if UConn came in. But there has to be a reason no super conference wants them and I can't believe at this point that it is only Fr. Leahy standing in the way of their admission to the B1G, ACC or Big XII. In the past it clearly was BC keeping UConn out of the ACC as it has documented and admitted to by DiFillippo. Now? The university presidents voted to keep them out. I said last year that Leahy carried a lot of weight in the ACC and all the UConn fans crapped all over me. Maybe he does carry a lot of weight after all, but that again does not explain the fact that UConn has been shut out of all expansion deals to date. UConn is headed towards being a mid major program in all sports unless they can get into a conference quick.
In this article about FAU to CUSA, it mentions the Sun Belt had prelim contact with Ga Southern and App St (and an unnamed 3rd team thought to be Lamar or Sam Houston St) back in September. I would assume the phones are ringing on those campuses now.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fau-owls/fl-fau-owls-conference-usa-1129-20121128,0,3912422.story
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fau-owls/fl-fau-owls-conference-usa-1129-20121128,0,3912422.story
This I don't really get. Is this an agreement that came into place after the SEC poached two schools directly from the Big 12, including one in the Big 12's primary state? And if no schools can leave the Big 12 for thirteen years, then what is the benefit to the Big 12 of any such agreement? Are they really worried about the SEC scooping up Houston or SMU?
Given that their teams are apparently locked in for over a decade and therefore off limits to the SEC, all this 'gentleman's agreement' would seem to be is a promise by the Big 12 not to expand into SEC territory in the wake of the SEC expanding into theirs. Perhaps there's an obvious substantial benefit that I'm blanking on right now, but I just don't see it.
Also, thirteen years is not an exceptionally long period of time. And in seven years, you're dealing with recruits who'll be there when the deal expires and teams could exit. Which also means that in just a few seasons, coaches from other conferences are going to be telling recruits that the Big 12 school they're considering may have trouble securing additional talent in the future. Not so much an issue for Texas or OU (or OSU, who is probably secured a spot wherever OU lands), who'll be welcome almost anywhere, but a likely issue for the remainder of the conference.
Texas and OU will be fine, but I don't think it bodes well for the remainder of the Big 12 if the conference just sits back and watches everything unfold, content with their thirteen year cushion.
Saw somewhere (I'll have to dig and see if I can find that story again) that the Big 12's idea is to renew the grant of rights for another five years when it's within five years of expiring. That way, there's never any doubt about the conference's stability.
Dennis Dodd reports GSU is indeed on their radar. And while the previous reports of Western Kentucky & New Mexico State already joining the C-USA proved incorrect, Dodd says NMSU and Idaho are both in play for the Sun Belt . Regarding WKU, C-USA is playing the Sgt. Schultz "we know nothing!" card.
Idaho in the Sun Belt makes as much sense as San Diego State in the Big East.
COME ON. Just get Mike Slive and Jim Delaney in a room and have them decide which schools are in each conference. The entire NCAA membership is losing credibility the more this goes on. It's making it hard for fans to even follow.
COME ON. Just get Mike Slive and Jim Delaney in a room and have them decide which schools are in each conference. The entire NCAA membership is losing credibility the more this goes on. It's making it hard for fans to even follow.