I wish posters would take the 2 mins to click on the link and read the article before asking questions that are answered therein.DrewDawg said:
Conference Realignment Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Notre Dame wanted to bail next year but they are stuck in the Big East one more year as the CYO isn't ready to go yet.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/21663683/brey-notre-dame-in-big-east-one-more-season-before-acc-move
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/21663683/brey-notre-dame-in-big-east-one-more-season-before-acc-move
10 conference games is the next step in destroying college football. I presume B1G schools will just schedule 2 patsies with their OOC games? At least it'll end up that way once they burn off the existing OOC deals they can't buy out.
It really is amazing how college conferences seem intent on doing the exact opposite of everything every other sport has done that's spawned more interest.
It really is amazing how college conferences seem intent on doing the exact opposite of everything every other sport has done that's spawned more interest.
Infield Infidel said:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...-catholic-7-close-reaching-media-rights-deals
"Just two years ago, the Big East turned down a nine-year deal from ESPN worth $1.17 billion, an average of $130 million annually. Since then the bottom has fallen out for the league, which has had 16 schools announce they were leaving during that time.
In April 2011, former Big East commissioner John Marinatto recommended the Big East accept ESPN's nine-year, $1.17 billion deal, but the league's presidents voted to turn it down. That deal would have earned full members $13.8 million a year and non-football members $2.43 million a year.
By comparison, NBC Sports Network's current offer would earn each Big East member about $2 million annually, depending if the league has 11 or 12 members. Navy is scheduled to join in 2015 as its 11th member."
I know the dynamics... Just saying that Marinade is spitting his Chianti out reading this.
I can't imagine they'll go with 10. The finances just don't seem to support that. It's an extra home game for half the teams they're giving up.
I think if they go to 10, it'll be more about equity in the conference. Making sure every team has 5 home conference games every year, instead of 4 or 5. I mean, since they're most likely going to be in the same division, is a scenario where Michigan has 5 home conference games and Ohio State has 4 home conference games fair? Vice versa? Because that could be the difference. I'm not saying 10 games is the right call, but I definitely see an argument for it. It might take away a cupcake home game, but it guarantees that fifth home game in conference.bowiac said:
As for the 2 patsies assumption, I'm not sure that'll be the case. I see this more as a tightening of the top conferences. You still need to have the strength of competition to get into the playoff, so you'll have to schedule well. You can't just face MAC (or FCS) teams. To me, it looks like the conference games will replace the patsies. Of course, this'll be different on a school to school basis, but the schools that are actually competing will have to put together a competitive schedule.
In a world where the SEC is playing 8 conference games, I really can't see anyone get going past 9. Going with 9 you're adding 7 losses to the conference ledger, going with ten adding 14 losses. Thats probably the difference between 8-9 bowl teams and 10+
The difference between 5 home games and four home games isn't that big as long as each division has an Indiana or Maryland or Rutgers to kick around. It doesn't seem to bother the Pac12 or Big12, and it evens out over two years.
In my dream wirld they go to nine with more neutral site games like Northwestern /Illinois at Wrigley Field or the proposed Penn State game in Ireland
The difference between 5 home games and four home games isn't that big as long as each division has an Indiana or Maryland or Rutgers to kick around. It doesn't seem to bother the Pac12 or Big12, and it evens out over two years.
In my dream wirld they go to nine with more neutral site games like Northwestern /Illinois at Wrigley Field or the proposed Penn State game in Ireland
Another reason I can't see the Big Ten going to 10 conference games: It would guarantee teams having no more than seven home games in any season. At least with nine, schools can bank on eight home games every other season.
Matt Hays from The Sporting News has his own theory on the Big Ten's conference schedule and what it means.
Matt Hayes @Matt_HayesSN
Delany says "9 or 10" league games in #B1G future. You better believe "10" means 16-team league.
Matt Hayes @Matt_HayesSN
Best guess? #UVa and #GT to #B1G, #FSU, #Clemson to #Big12, #UNC, #Duke to #SEC RT @CourtMerrigan: @Matt_HayesSN Adding who else, you think?
Matt Hays from The Sporting News has his own theory on the Big Ten's conference schedule and what it means.
Matt Hayes @Matt_HayesSN
Delany says "9 or 10" league games in #B1G future. You better believe "10" means 16-team league.
Matt Hayes @Matt_HayesSN
Best guess? #UVa and #GT to #B1G, #FSU, #Clemson to #Big12, #UNC, #Duke to #SEC RT @CourtMerrigan: @Matt_HayesSN Adding who else, you think?
Duke is a better fit in the ACC or Big Ten than in the SEC. That is not a match, although you do have a smart school in Vanderbilt in the SEC.BigMike said:
BigMike said:
No kidding, that really undermines the rest of his prediction. Talk about throwing shit against a wall.
FSU and Clemson aren't making any more money in the Big XII than they are in the ACC. They move why, exactly?
As for the B1G home/away divisional imbalance, the ACC has one entire division play at the other in alternating years, so divisional tea,s always have the same # of conference home games. B1G could do the same thing. Not rocket science.
8slim said:
Because the money, in time, will grow and there will be a real difference between the ACC and the other four conferences. According to CBS' Dennis Dodd, "One industry source said the league could be making as much as $30 million per school in 2014, the first year of the playoff."
ACC schools, according to this SI.com article with the new deal but with Notre Dame still pending, will make roughly $17 million annually.
More recently, Forbes crunched the numbers and said the Big 12 tops all conferences in money per school annually at $26.2 million. The ACC ranked fourth and $24.4 million, and though the Big Ten was fifth at $19.3 million, expiring TV contracts will keep them closer to the SEC than anyone else.
Lots of different numbers from lots of different people, but I've yet to see anyone report ACC schools make the same amount as Big 12 schools. If the Big 12's money will outpace the ACC by a significant advantage going forward, and if Florida State/Clemson know Florida/South Carolina will make at least $10 million more than them annually through 2027, that's something to think about. Keeping up with the Joneses.
Here's what I should have said, Texas and Oklahoma won't make more by adding FSU and Clemson. The B12 contracts cannot be reopened due to expansion, so the cuts those schools get will be the same (the total deal will just rise at the current per-team rate).
So even if FSU/Clemson make marginally more in the B12 (and that's really all it'll be, at best a couple million/ year, not close to B1G or SEC money) there's not much incentive for UT & OU to let them in.
If they do it'd be almost entirely from an ego standpoint, not financial.
So even if FSU/Clemson make marginally more in the B12 (and that's really all it'll be, at best a couple million/ year, not close to B1G or SEC money) there's not much incentive for UT & OU to let them in.
If they do it'd be almost entirely from an ego standpoint, not financial.
FWIW, the only entities that really know what the payouts total are the schools and the networks. The media has been wildly off in their estimates time and time again.
Barry Alvarez says the Big 10 will stop scheduling FCS teams http://www.fbschedules.com/2013/02/big-ten-conference-stop-scheduling-fcs-teams/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+fbschedulescom+%28FBSchedules.com%29
It doesn't say if that means the ones already scheduled would stay or not. I'm a little skeptical if they can pull this off. There are only so many MAC/SunBelt teams they can schedule.
While I applaud this move on a competitive basis, this is going to hammer the athletic budgets for FCS teams.
It doesn't say if that means the ones already scheduled would stay or not. I'm a little skeptical if they can pull this off. There are only so many MAC/SunBelt teams they can schedule.
While I applaud this move on a competitive basis, this is going to hammer the athletic budgets for FCS teams.
8slim said:
Thing is, these realignment moves are being made in cooperation with TV partners. There was BC's comment that ESPN told the ACC who to select to add dollars to the contracts. FOX basically cast the tie-breaking votes for TCU (replacing one Texas school with another) and WVU (more national football cachet than Louisville) when the Big 12 selected members to keep its existing TV contracts. FOX talked to the Catholic 7 about a new conference when the Big East began to wobble. FOX has been there with the Pac-12 and Big Ten and their Tier 3 networks.
So it stands to reason that if the Big 12 added Florida State and Clemson, it did so with TV partners' blessings, and with some understanding that the contracts would increase in value, because the Big 12's not doing anything that results in less money per school. Bowlsby has made that clear on several occasions. They wouldn't go 12 schools and add a conference championship game without the promise of sweetened TV deals. And if there is a conference championship game, they have to go back and readdress the contracts anyway.
UMass Lowell is making the full jump to D-1 to the America East.
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2013/2/13/3984524/umass-lowell-transition-division-1-america-east
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2013/2/13/3984524/umass-lowell-transition-division-1-america-east
Both News Corp and Disney were bombarded with questions form analysts this week about the escalating cost of college rights, and how it impacts earnings. I don't know that the gravy train is going to keep running the way people think.Sea Dog said:
RedOctober3829 said:
They have the facilities to make the full jump with Tsongas Arena and LeLacheur Park. That's better than most of the facilities in that conference and they are both on campus facilities.
Sea Dog said:
You transcriped this incorrectly. Chart shows that B10 had 25.8M in revenue per school; it is the SEC that clocks in at 19.3M per school. But expiring contracts at B10 (and SEC I presume) should make the revenues per school in the B-12 stratosphere.
ACC is kind of maxed out.
I cannot keep up with all of this.
ACC is in the middle of renegotiating due to the scheduling agreement with Notre Dame. They'll get a bump.
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Yeah, got those flipped. Big Ten and SEC will be head and shoulders above everyone else. Big 12 (Texas/Oklahoma) and Pac-12 (USC/Stanford/Oregon) are in the next tier, and the ACC lags behind everyone else. Even with Notre Dame, the ACC can probably count on no more than three Irish games per season, tops, because the other two would be in South Bend and would be broadcast on NBC. Not sure how much 2.5 Notre Dame games per season for the ACC contract is worth, seems minimal at best, not near enough to keep pace with everyone else.
John Feinstein of the Washington Post had a column about Catholic 7 expansion targets. More of the same names, but a few wrinkles I hadn't heard before.
First, the same names: "In all likelihood, four schools are virtual locks to be invited: Dayton, Xavier, Saint Louis and Butler."
Now, the wrinkles: "The eastern division of the league will consist of Georgetown, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence and either Richmond (also a non-Catholic school) or Siena — a late entry but a potentially appealing one because it’s a Catholic school that (more importantly) plays in a 15,500-seat arena in Albany, N.Y."
Also: "If Butler decides not to leave the Atlantic 10 — which it joined only this season — or if the presidents decide to go with Catholic schools only, the University of Detroit Mercy would come into the picture. Creighton, another Catholic school considered a potential candidate, is considered too far west (Omaha, Neb.) for teams in non-revenue sports to travel."
First, the same names: "In all likelihood, four schools are virtual locks to be invited: Dayton, Xavier, Saint Louis and Butler."
Now, the wrinkles: "The eastern division of the league will consist of Georgetown, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence and either Richmond (also a non-Catholic school) or Siena — a late entry but a potentially appealing one because it’s a Catholic school that (more importantly) plays in a 15,500-seat arena in Albany, N.Y."
Also: "If Butler decides not to leave the Atlantic 10 — which it joined only this season — or if the presidents decide to go with Catholic schools only, the University of Detroit Mercy would come into the picture. Creighton, another Catholic school considered a potential candidate, is considered too far west (Omaha, Neb.) for teams in non-revenue sports to travel."
I suppose there is something to be said to adding Detroit and Siena to give the other teams someone to beat up on every year.
Williams Head Case said:
More informed sources claim that Detroit, Sienna, and Richmond aren't on the list. I'd be shocked if any of these 3 schools were added.
UNC apparently has a Big 10 offer, with UVA likely to join and Georgia Tech still in the mix. Have to think if any of those two dominoes fall, the third plus Clemson/FSU will be looking to jump ship immediately. Maybe THEN UConn will end up in the ACC? :buddy:
UVa is all but gone. The question is who will be the team that goes with them. B1G wants UNC obviously. SEC wants UNC/Duke combo. B1G doesn't want Duke. If UNC says no to B1G, then next in line is GTech (which is a mistake for the B1G, because why get the 3rd/4th most popular team in GA?).
The big question is will FSU/Clemson/Miami all jump to Big12? If so, then will ND go to B1G or stay indpenedpent fotball and join the Catholics for Olympics? NCSU goes to the SEC?
Meanwhile, I am PUMPED for the Uconn - SMU game next year.
As I told my buddy who is a Villanova fan...don't be too happy in your C7 conference. In like 6 years when the big four conferences break away, the NCAA basketball tourney will cease to exist...good times. I suspect the Big10 will end up being 18-20 teams. the SEC will be 16, the Big12 will 14-16 and the Pac12 will be 12-14. Those four will form their own sports concern. everyone else will cease to matter
The big question is will FSU/Clemson/Miami all jump to Big12? If so, then will ND go to B1G or stay indpenedpent fotball and join the Catholics for Olympics? NCSU goes to the SEC?
Meanwhile, I am PUMPED for the Uconn - SMU game next year.
As I told my buddy who is a Villanova fan...don't be too happy in your C7 conference. In like 6 years when the big four conferences break away, the NCAA basketball tourney will cease to exist...good times. I suspect the Big10 will end up being 18-20 teams. the SEC will be 16, the Big12 will 14-16 and the Pac12 will be 12-14. Those four will form their own sports concern. everyone else will cease to matter
Clears Cleaver said:
Notre Dame will join the Catholics. After last year, it is recruiting nationally again and it absolutely murdered in the ratings. NBC will happily sign up again then take a huge portion of the Catholic basketball to fill up NBCSports.
NCAA will continue to control basketball and the Catholics will be a basketball powerhouse. As for football, ACC should just change its name to the conference formerly known as the Big East.
If Virginia and UNC go, FSU, Clemson, and probably GTech are gone. So you are left with Duke and the old Big East without Rutgers, UConn, or the Catholic schools.
Clears Cleaver said:
I feel like a broken record at this point. Conference expansion has nothing to do with what school/team is most popular. To address other posters, it also has nothing to do with which school/team has had better recent success with its sports teams, or brings more tradition and grandeur to the table.
It has everything to do with getting the conference's TV channel (in this case, the Big Ten Network) into as many homes as possible so they can gain a share of subscriber fees. Among ACC candidates, the Big Ten can't do any better than the Atlanta and Raleigh-Durham markets in terms of expanding its footprint into uncharted turf. For that reason, UNC and GA Tech would clearly have to be their 1A and 1B preferences, especially with UNC bringing Charlotte-Greensboro along for the ride. Virginia is largely superfluous and redundant given the overlap with Maryland in the DC and Baltimore markets. Ditto for VA Tech.
Wait, besides UGA, who are these other two schools in Georgia that are more popular than GTech?
DukeSox said:
As long as reputable sources continue to report on potential movement involving ACC schools, they are fair game for this thread -- which you're more than welcome to stay out of if such discussion is an affront to your delicate notions of conference stability. If the reports cease, and none of these rumored ACC departures* come to pass, you'll be able to shit all over this thread with your I Told You So's.
Until then, shut the flying fuck up.
EDIT - And by "rumored ACC departures" I mean other than founding member Maryland ditching the conference after more than six decades. Yeah, nobody ever leaves the ACC...
Captaincoop said:
He's referring to Georgia residents (including the millions of transplants) with a greater allegiance to schools such as Alabama, Tennessee, Clemson, Florida, etc., not necessarily schools in Georgia.
And he's right about that. Bama for certain has a far greater metro ATL fan base than GT does. But he's wrong about it being a major factor in conference movement.
Captaincoop said:
Clemson is fairly popular in Northeastern Georgia. Auburn also has a following in Western Georgia.
Dog, I agree with you. I just think taking GTech for the B1G is a mistake. ITs like the ACC taking BC and thinking they locked up New England, or MA. Or even Boston. the Big10 is about dominant State universities. I understand its get the b1G network into a large metrolpolitan region like Atlanta and also to get inraods into that recruiting area. But guess what, that region will buy the network anyways becasue all they care about is football. lol.mabrowndog said:
If the Big10 wants to play that game, take FSU and end the ACC football. That is a much tougher road to hoe for the B1G presidents I'm sure (academically)
Clears Cleaver said:
Where are you getting that UVA is all but gone? Also, while I see UNC as a possible target, I could also see Pitt coming. Natural rivalry with PSU and it's geographically close to OSU. I know they just moved conferences, but with the chaotic nature of this Pitt has to be considered in any discussion of B1G expansion.
Zososoxfan said:
UVA has been talking to B1G for a bit. They are in the rumors. I haven't heard anything about Pittsburgh
Edit - UVA is a much better academic reason
The people that first had MD going to the B1G are now reporting that UVa is close to accepting their offer and that UNC/GT are also weighing their options. This has been rumored for a while and had been hinted at in more than one public comment.
There is almost ZERO chance Pitt is going to the B1G anytime soon. The conference is trying to expand into new markets, not get second and third tier add-ons to markets they already dominate. If the B1G goes to 20 teams, then the northeast schools and Pitt might be added. I suspect that Pitt might be headed to the Big12 eventually with WVU. I think NCSU and VT will end up in the SEC.
There is almost ZERO chance Pitt is going to the B1G anytime soon. The conference is trying to expand into new markets, not get second and third tier add-ons to markets they already dominate. If the B1G goes to 20 teams, then the northeast schools and Pitt might be added. I suspect that Pitt might be headed to the Big12 eventually with WVU. I think NCSU and VT will end up in the SEC.
Pretty much agree with everything Clears said above, but if B1G does become a mega-conference I think Cuse gets into the mix before anyone else in the northeast.
Depending on what happens with the Maryland lawsuit, this stretch of time from now until June 30 holds a lot of cards.
Depending on what happens with the Maryland lawsuit, this stretch of time from now until June 30 holds a lot of cards.
UNC, Georgia Tech, and UVA were the only three schools to apply for membership to the B1G from the ACC. It would be a shock if Syracuse and Pittsburgh were let in without applying.