CSI Nevermind--Excuses for Why Patriots Opponents Lose
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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So there is an American with the dark arts capabilities of James Jesus Angleton and the moral rectitude of Reverend-Senator John Danforth. His name is Robert Mueller. He used to be FBI Director. He now is in private practice.
Months ago, but no later than the bullshit in the Pittsburgh game, I suggested that the Pats retain Mueller or someone like him (but there is no one quite like him). In part to audit compliance and install best practices where they may be lacking. But at least as much to announce to the world, a few loathesome competitors, and more than a few assholes on Park Ave -- "go ahead, make my day."
Nobody would fuck with a guy like this because when a guy like this takes the podium and announces, "there is nothing there; if anything, it was a set-up; this is harassment", people believe him. In fact, with a guy like that on the scene -- and I would definitely have him at Jets games -- the Jets don't make the bullshit complaints in the first place.
Yes, I think the Dragon is biding its time. And yes, I think the Patriots are (again) being incredibly naive if they are not operating on that assumption. I hope Jonathan is up to something more constructive in this vein than calling sports radio talk shows, thumping his chest and making snarky remarks.
Months ago, but no later than the bullshit in the Pittsburgh game, I suggested that the Pats retain Mueller or someone like him (but there is no one quite like him). In part to audit compliance and install best practices where they may be lacking. But at least as much to announce to the world, a few loathesome competitors, and more than a few assholes on Park Ave -- "go ahead, make my day."
Nobody would fuck with a guy like this because when a guy like this takes the podium and announces, "there is nothing there; if anything, it was a set-up; this is harassment", people believe him. In fact, with a guy like that on the scene -- and I would definitely have him at Jets games -- the Jets don't make the bullshit complaints in the first place.
Yes, I think the Dragon is biding its time. And yes, I think the Patriots are (again) being incredibly naive if they are not operating on that assumption. I hope Jonathan is up to something more constructive in this vein than calling sports radio talk shows, thumping his chest and making snarky remarks.
Do you really think that when they decided to issue a statement to ESPN, and decided how to word it to make it as clear as possible, they decided on "No such request was made by the Jets"?
Its a clunky way to make the point that is likely specifically chosen to sound definitive while obscuring some important detail.
example:
Jets: we think there's bugs in our locker room!
NFL: oh sweet we hope you're right! We're going to sweep the locker room!
Jets: great, thanks.
Its a clunky way to make the point that is likely specifically chosen to sound definitive while obscuring some important detail.
example:
Jets: we think there's bugs in our locker room!
NFL: oh sweet we hope you're right! We're going to sweep the locker room!
Jets: great, thanks.
dcm, you're suggesting the Pats hire the guy the league hired to investigate themselves?
And what do you mean "install best practices where they may be lacking"? Do you mean, "we looked at your radio transmissions during the game and find that while they are in compliance the signals are too weak and hence susceptible to interference"?
I get what you're saying: they need to play hardball with the League and do this stuff on their terms. But how would a move like that not ultimately look like they are guilty and trying to hide something?
And what do you mean "install best practices where they may be lacking"? Do you mean, "we looked at your radio transmissions during the game and find that while they are in compliance the signals are too weak and hence susceptible to interference"?
I get what you're saying: they need to play hardball with the League and do this stuff on their terms. But how would a move like that not ultimately look like they are guilty and trying to hide something?
The question Jonathan should be asking, if he or anyone in the Patriots organization is inclined to do anything, is why if this sort of thing (the bug sweeps and checking of employees) is a routine thing for the league, no other team/stadium has its inspections plastered all over the media.
I mean, if they sweep the visiting locker room at Lambeau or Lucas Oil or CenturyLink, would they confirm it as readily as they have confirmed the investigation on Sunday?
I mean, if they sweep the visiting locker room at Lambeau or Lucas Oil or CenturyLink, would they confirm it as readily as they have confirmed the investigation on Sunday?
I think a bigger question would be why the League does this at all. This isn't the fucking Russia House. Somewhere between Tagliabue's run and today, Goodell allowed all this bad blood between teams to fester and grow -- and now it's infected the League office itself.
It's as if Goodell is too in awe of these people--from the Maras and Rooneys to the Haslems--to actually pick up the phone once in a while and tell them to shut the fuck up and shut their people the fuck up.
It's as if Goodell is too in awe of these people--from the Maras and Rooneys to the Haslems--to actually pick up the phone once in a while and tell them to shut the fuck up and shut their people the fuck up.
VE: I think you have it backward. I think the league encourages, either directly or tacitly, this sort of shit. But only for one team.
I think it's a combination of factors, from other owners bitching, to Goodell being insecure and wanting to stomp out the 'Kraft is co commissioner' talk, to people who just flat out don't like Bill Belichick and probably convince themselves that he's bad for business.
And, lest I be accused of being paranoid, I simply can't find any other explanation that connects the dots of what has gone on the past 10 months.
I think it's a combination of factors, from other owners bitching, to Goodell being insecure and wanting to stomp out the 'Kraft is co commissioner' talk, to people who just flat out don't like Bill Belichick and probably convince themselves that he's bad for business.
And, lest I be accused of being paranoid, I simply can't find any other explanation that connects the dots of what has gone on the past 10 months.
Ha, well, my point is: they didn't used to. I honestly think it started sometime in the last ten years -- and that commissioners in years' past wouldn't put up with teams sniping at one another through the League office or, worse, the media. At a certain point, they did. And then, at another point, the Kensils of the world started working for them, at which point ...
No, we agree. I just think it's more of a matter of Goodell being not so much in awe of the owners as much as its that he's weak and others are playing worm tongue. I think he's a stupid, privileged, asshole who can't grasp that he's being used.
That may be true. But I have to think a hugely underrated factor at play here is that Goodell has never had a job outside of the League office. Ever. The guy has been doing the bidding of ownership since he was an intern. He may well have opinions of his own now but I can't help but feel like the job of corralling these guys every now and then is just not in his DNA.
Are we still paranoid according to other fan bases?
This proves all the shit that was talked about during DFG. It is clear there is a different set
of rules for the Pats
Would be curious to hear genuine takes from
the non Pats fans on here
This proves all the shit that was talked about during DFG. It is clear there is a different set
of rules for the Pats
Would be curious to hear genuine takes from
the non Pats fans on here
Here's the bigger problem for me. We've heard people whining about the locker room, etc being bugged before: SI, his holiness saint Tony, others. It's only now that we hear random sweeps have been done for years without incident. Haven't we heard this story already? Baseless accusation lodged at Patriots = strict radio silence/misinformation from Park Ave. Did the league come out immediately when these things were written months ago saying "we've been doing sweeps for years and never found anything?" Of course not. What changed then that made them say it now?
"Integrity of the game!" -----> silence
"Integrity of model franchise" --------> silence
"league was asked to do this. Did they actually do their job right?". --------> full throated explanation
Their actions and public statement serve only one purpose: to defend and uphold their own competence. Not integrity, Patriot "reputation", or anything else. It was made to make themselves look good.
What a complete failure in leadership in every possible way.
"Integrity of the game!" -----> silence
"Integrity of model franchise" --------> silence
"league was asked to do this. Did they actually do their job right?". --------> full throated explanation
Their actions and public statement serve only one purpose: to defend and uphold their own competence. Not integrity, Patriot "reputation", or anything else. It was made to make themselves look good.
What a complete failure in leadership in every possible way.
I did not know, or had forgotten, Mueller had been hired by the League for the Ray Rice cleanup. All the more reason to retain him. But him having worked for the NFL, that may not be feasible.Van Everyman said:
I can only assume that the Pats have a decent compliance regime in place. If after all this they don't, then they are hopeless.
The purposes of taking on someone like this are to evaluate that regime and improve it if need be; have an audit trail of sorts which shows the team is compliant; and countermeasures -- anticipate how these fools will try to trip you up and position yourself to smoke out and reveal what may be coming: a frame job. If past events show anything, it is that they cannot rely on League machinery and resources for fairness, and that in a reactive mode, they are defenseless.
You don't need to issue a press release. I'd just call the League and tell them what they will be facing down the road.
Meanwhile, week to week, against these whiny, excuse making opponents, especially at home, we are essentially driving while black. The Patriots may as well be twenty-something AA guys in a nice ride in a leafy suburb at night.
Edit. In retrospect, the Tomlin comments after game 1 seem even more outrageous and warranted punishment.
Edit. In retrospect, the Tomlin comments after game 1 seem even more outrageous and warranted punishment.
Yeah, we've graduated from Witch Hunt to Red Scare. RG, have you no decency?RedOctober3829 said:
Totally agree with this. The Pats lost the PR battle in DFG because they seemed to take a "this is a minor issue and if we didn't do anything wrong, we will be fine" approach initially. Even if it's unfair, you have to take the world as it is, with people looking to trip you up and to turn every mistake into proof of nefarious intent, not as you want it to be.dcmissle said:
dcmissle said:
I really hope that the Krafts are smart enough to be on this already.
Also, if the team is aware of any opponents pulling shit at Gillette and Park Ave. looking the other way, now would be the time to leak that to a friendly reporter or two.
Well said. The league is not a friend to the Pats or to Kraft, as should now be obvious. It is now proper to treat them as an adversary. And at this level, the proper way to engage in an adversarial process is to hire representatives to play hardball on your behalf.dcmissle said:
It might be that.drleather2001 said:
Or it might be that Goodell is a skilled political player, and realizes the best way to unite the owners is to turn them on a common enemy, the Patriots.
The one essential thing a commissioner needs is support from a majority of the owners. Throwing one owner under the bus to obtain support from most other owners would be a relatively unsurprising move from a skilled political player.
What's strange is that said common enemy owner was a key player in ending the lockout while getting the players to accept an extremely owner-friendly CBA. The same owner that has defended Goodell multiple times.crystalline said:
Also, most owners care about one thing and one thing only: the cash flow generated by their team. If you recall, the owners didn't really care to even address DeflateGate until Kraft dropped hints that he might fight the league's imposed penalties, an act that would show division among the ranks in front of the world. An act that would ultimately weaken the owners' position at the next round of CBA talks. Attacking Kraft and the Patriots does not impact the cash flow at all, and could actually backfire if Goodell and the league are handed a sternly worded rebuke by the 2nd Circuit in DFG.
I believe the root cause is pure incompetence and lack of leadership on the part of Goodell when it comes to running the league office.
drleather2001 said:
To be fair, BB is bad for business in Indy, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and several other AFC cities. He removes their opportunity to hang banners (or in Indy's case, more impressive banners) by making the Pats a better organization than the ones they put on the field.
I think the leaking of the Jets stuff is kind of weird, coming around the time of the NFL's brief. Isn't the league standing hard on the notion that they don't target or play favourites with teams or individuals? If the Pats could show that other teams' game day staff aren't detailed, grilled, photographed, etc. during games, wouldn't that provide a little evidence that the league is more partial than they're letting on?
The "When you walk through the garden" subject line was a brief, glorious moment -- Icarus-like.
Anyway, I'll be interested to see where this goes from here. Either people will sort of shrug and move on... or this could turn into a circus. It seems clear that the NFL lied in their initial statement, and it appears that they badgered Patriots employees for doing their job.
I think for it to turn into a circus the Patriots (and the Krafts) would have to help make it one, and I doubt that will happen. If they don't talk about this, there's not much for members of the media to go on, I don't think.
Anyway, I'll be interested to see where this goes from here. Either people will sort of shrug and move on... or this could turn into a circus. It seems clear that the NFL lied in their initial statement, and it appears that they badgered Patriots employees for doing their job.
I think for it to turn into a circus the Patriots (and the Krafts) would have to help make it one, and I doubt that will happen. If they don't talk about this, there's not much for members of the media to go on, I don't think.
It's going to be weird when the nfl randomly switches next season to a cast of dock workers with seemingly little interest in developing the excellent plot they established in the first season.
But I think there's good things in store for 2017.
But really, this has gotten to the point where I am going to wonder if Kraft is completely complicit in the team being a villain/heel and this is all just an extended wwf style marketing stunt.
But I think there's good things in store for 2017.
But really, this has gotten to the point where I am going to wonder if Kraft is completely complicit in the team being a villain/heel and this is all just an extended wwf style marketing stunt.
The unfortunate aspect of this bullshit is the 'death by a thousand cuts" that the Pats are seemingly being singled out for.
Tomlin weeping about headphones, and now the Jets crying about eavesdropping.
The reaction among less jaundiced or somewhat indifferent fans, naturally becomes, "Why is it always the Pats doing something?
A pox on 345 Park Ave-fuck them.
Tomlin weeping about headphones, and now the Jets crying about eavesdropping.
The reaction among less jaundiced or somewhat indifferent fans, naturally becomes, "Why is it always the Pats doing something?
A pox on 345 Park Ave-fuck them.
It wasn't the Jets but NFL HQ. These 2 are too joined at the hip, so it's a meaningless distinction.
The NFL made a bunch of hires in the offseason---I think they brought on a former ATF guy as 'conduct czar' http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12544015/todd-jones-former-atf-director-join-nfl-conduct-czar and I believe also a 'special counsel for investigations' and another person who had deep evidence development experience.
I certainly wouldn't rule out that this is Kensil and his keystone kops continuing their incompetence; however, I think it is also possible the tactics used here in singling out the employees, trying to intimidate them, etc. is just what it looks like when you hire people who have been doing aggressive investigations their entire careers and now happen to be involved with the NFL doing investigations.
The story leaking is no doubt the same clown show we say with DFG; were I Kraft I'd be all over the league on this one and making clear that the next leak that involved the Patriots would lead to a whole barrel full of leaks about internal league activities, and that Kraft's new lawyer (hopefully he's moved on from the overmatched Daniel Goldberg) was evaluating options, and advising individual employees to consider their own legal options against the league (I suspect they actually have more than the Pats as a team do).
I certainly wouldn't rule out that this is Kensil and his keystone kops continuing their incompetence; however, I think it is also possible the tactics used here in singling out the employees, trying to intimidate them, etc. is just what it looks like when you hire people who have been doing aggressive investigations their entire careers and now happen to be involved with the NFL doing investigations.
The story leaking is no doubt the same clown show we say with DFG; were I Kraft I'd be all over the league on this one and making clear that the next leak that involved the Patriots would lead to a whole barrel full of leaks about internal league activities, and that Kraft's new lawyer (hopefully he's moved on from the overmatched Daniel Goldberg) was evaluating options, and advising individual employees to consider their own legal options against the league (I suspect they actually have more than the Pats as a team do).
I think we aren't privy to a lot of crazy shit that happens in the NFL. Pioli's strange actions when he was running the Chiefs made me think espionage was par for the course. The Pats being singled out seems like journalists following an easy narrative.
I can think of another "easy narrative". Two other teams getting slapped on the wrist for ball inflation issues -- which were captured on a network broadcast -- while one team was subject to pre SB witch hunt, months long and multi-million $ investigation, the loss of a first and fourth, a heavy fine, and a QB suspension that thankfully was set right.
You may call that lazy. I call it accurate.
You may call that lazy. I call it accurate.
So why don't the journalists go crazy about this? I'm not a pats fan but I hate people trying to steal or minimize others to feel better about themselves. And I'm a pretty strong Brady & Belichick supporter on this stupid "scandal"dcmissle said:
The best I can come up with is the narrative is out there that the Pats cheat and it sells. I mean, look how popular it is on this forum. People I've never heard of in my life get their name out by saying dumb shit about the Pats cheating. No one gets famous saying "nothing to see here, let's move along"
Three, since we're leaving out the direct comp of the Jets in 2009. All those Jets fans at HQ have wanted to stick it to BB since he shunned the team on the podium in 1999-2000 and went to a hated division rival. The team's success has provided a hate blanket from other teams and their fanbases to let the league get away with horseshit like Deflategate and even Spygate. Given the massive gameday manual, any team could have the same thing happen to them if the league office wanted to put the effort in.dcmissle said:
Nightslyr said:
One would have hoped that the Pats instruct all gameday employees to refer such requests to New England's director of security. It would seem only logical, particularly in light of the AFCCG follies, that we have our expert documenting in real-time the league's activities.
But the media's disinterest in the story that the league is out to nail the Patriots, while simultaneously soiling themselves with glee when the Patriots so much as possibly look bad, creates a positive feedback cycle where the league is emboldened to just throw shit against the wall with impunity.dcmissle said:
The only way this stops is when someone: other owners, media figures, politicians (groan) stand up and say "Enough. We see what's going on and it's bullshit. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wrong."
And that has to come from a NATIONAL source, not some columnist at NESN.