Yeah, that sounds like Bedard, who has become quite obnoxious over the past few years.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Dan Shaughnessy: Taking a dump in your mouth one column at a time
- Thread starter weeba
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HillysLastWalk said:Out of curiosity, and you seem more media-savvy than me, what would be your expectation then? How does a writer then slip that story in about him being bad or his "un-savory friends"?
At draft time, sure, you can mention it. But once he's on the team, playing well, with a team that doesn't like to have their players talk, what do you do? Slip it into a Notes section at the end of an article? (Apropos of nothing - Hernandez's a dick and his friends just don't look or act right). Do you give the OK for a whole article? (I know that he's playing at an all-star level, and he hasn't been arrested, but damn that Hernandez. Just the other day one of his 'thug' friends came in the locker room ...)
It just seems like info like this won't ever come out until an event like this happens. But I know nothing ...
You write an off-season piece on how scouts are impressed by his talent, but question his decision making and friends. People seem to have no problem doing it with Gronk.
PBDWake said:
This. Writers do this shit all of the time, they play the old guilt-by-association game. Iverson, Vick, pretty much any athlete of color who didn't grow up in a middle class household has had a writer write something about their friends and how Team A has concerns about them. And usually this nugget is pushed out by annonymous team officials who are looking to get rid of or punish said star, but need to create some sort of PR reason for doing so.
Most of the time "the bad friends/associates" angle is complete bullshit (in the case of Vick, it wasn't -- so there is some validity, I suppose) but it's routinely done.
PBDWake said:
And forgive me, because I don't follow football or the patriots as I do the Red Sox, but what types of articles are these? Meaning, sure, I can see a Gronk mention when he's dunking his friends at dance clubs, or dancing on an injured foot with his shirt off, or fucking around with porn stars on twitter .. that type of stuff? Yeah, he gave a little cannon fodder to mention something like this.
But, if nothing's happening, and you aren't getting arrested, and you don't have your shirt off in a club, what sparks this type of article?
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I'm not so sure about the 'This' yet. As I wrote, while you were posting, Gronk gave them reason, as benign as it may have been, to get in the cross-hairs. And yes, if it's draft day, or trade-related, "friends" and "concerns about them" stories do come out. But, since the draft, Hernandez hasn't been in any trade rumors, or arrested, or detained, in any way (caveat: as far as I know). How do you slip that in? As we all know, you have to slip up once, first, then the labels happen, and it doesn't stop. Ever. Examples: Jurassic Carl! Not just, Carl Everret. Or to a lesser extent, "20Million dollar Carl Crawford." As opposed to just, Carl Crawford. Get in the cross-hairs first, then have snark thrown your way, forever.
Here's the thing, I just think it's more likely that these stories come out afterwards because assholes that shoot people were assholes before they pulled the trigger. So, yes, they would have always known, but they also have an direct working relationship with these people and the team - so they don't really want to shoot themselves in the foot.
In the rare instance that asshole shooting people were angels before the incident, you will hear the, "wow, we were surprised about that guy" stories.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I don't know that I can agree with this completely. As you pointed out, there have been numerous cases where it wasn't bullshit (PacMan Jones is another example). I think where you're coming from is that it just sometimes doesn't amount to a high profile incident, thus it was a bunch of needless hand wringing. That doesn't mean it's bullshit that player X has shitty friends. It just probably means that they have enough good influences that they're able to stay away from really bad shit happening to them.
This doesn't excuse the likes of Shaughnessy, however. You always have to wonder what agenda guys like him are trying to push.
What a bizarrre comment by the Curly Haired Bitch:
The "See, See! They are not who they say they are!" column is seemingly always in the can, just waiting to be unfurled.
Really, do ANY Patriots fans care about Kraft's "family values" warblings? My take is that most of us could care less about such voice overs.
And what is it about Danny Boy and Ronny Boy that makes them so delight in calling out the Krafts for being disingenuous?
The "See, See! They are not who they say they are!" column is seemingly always in the can, just waiting to be unfurled.
Really, do ANY Patriots fans care about Kraft's "family values" warblings? My take is that most of us could care less about such voice overs.
We may have to agree to disagree on this one, I mean (and this is going back) Will McDonough made his bones on writing first and dealing with the repercussions later. Shaughnessey does it monthly (the David Ortiz piece, which I happened to agree that he could write, was a classic case of this). And whether or not Hernandez did this or not, is not what I'm arguing. Aaron Hernandez could be the lovechild of Squeaky Fromme and the Zodiac Killer for all I know, but my point is in the next few days a lot of reporters are going to act high-and-mighty about how they knew that Hernandez was a punk and that he hung around with "gang bangers". The caveat that they'll use is that they just couldn't write about it.
Which technically is sorta true, until this incident the guy has been a pretty solid citizen and most analysts (like Felger for example) have laughed at other NFL teams for shying away from him because "of a little pot" -- I mean this sort of has been the book on the kid since he came into the league. I guess it's hard to write that he has less than upstanding citizens as friends, but again it could also be as simple as, "Despite the league-wide whispers of something more nefarious than a pot bust during the NFL draft, Aaron Hernandez has been a model citizen going so far as to helping little old ladies crossing the street." That brings up a little bit of a doubt on his character without saying the dude hangs out with extras from "Scarface".
In any event, it's going to turn on a dime--which again it probably should--what shouldn't turn is that these guys are going to pretend that they knew something similar was going to happen.
The thing is, if someone did write that, then wouldn't everyone have dismissed it while screaming about how unfair it is to toss rumors it out there without proof and what does it matter anyway and he hasn't done anything wrong and why does writer X have an agenda against the Patriots all that good stuff?John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Of course we would have, but we say that about everything the media writes/says. And it would have died down after a day or two of panty twisting. Then someone could have come back to that and say, "Looks like Nick Cafardo was right all along. Why didn't we listen to him back then?"
If a writer is worried about what the fans are going to say, he shouldn't be writing.
I don't think either JMOH or I are arguing that people SHOULD be writing articles with blanket statements about people's past or friends, only that its been proven time and time again that people DO. And to now come out and advertise that you just KNEW but couldn't report it is disingenuous at best, and outright fraudulent at, not even worst, just at reality. If you had a source claiming Hernandez did much more than smoke weed at college, either follow the lead and o some work, or shut up because its an unverified rumor. And as everything that's come out since the arrest? Well, I'd like to know how all these reporters knew so much about everything, but somehow missed a lawsuit for shooting someone in the face. Unless, you know, you couldn't report on THAT for those murky "reasons" you never really bother explaining.The Napkin said:
That's a load of crap in this case JMOH and you know it. Any reporter writes that article in the off season and people in this forum and BBTLS jump all over that reporter for being the only reporter out there to disparage Hernandez and his ties and go out of their way to say he is only doing it because that reporter has a grudge against the player/team and might have used racist phrasing.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Also, I heard Bedard on T&R and at the end of the interview he went out of his way to say that he has never had an issue with Hernandez and thought that he did clean up his act and that he was a nice guy. Of course this was on the first day that he was linked to the murder and before the latest news had come out.
CHB with a gratuitous shank into Kraft. Did Bob have ANY input on the re-signing of Hernandez given it wasn't a Brady-level contract?
Brew, I'm not saying that this is the right thing to do; but it's done regularly. I mean, I'm not sure what to tell you. HLW wondered how it can be done and I explained it. In addition, I specifically said that it doesn't have to be an expose or a long article, a very short phrase in the midst of a longer piece would do the job fine. Because you're right, and this is pretty much my entire argument, up until last weekend Aaron Hernandez has been a seemingly law-abiding citizen. That's why the events of the last week have been a surprise to most people--except of course, certain sports writers who claim, after the fact, that they knew that Hernandez was bad news and use the his draft day plummet as evidence. My ire (probably too strong of a word) is that if these guys knew about this and have been sitting on it for years, why didn't they clue anyone in? It seems very, very disingenuous.
And honestly, if I was a writer I wouldn't care at all what anyone in the BBTLS or really any on-line forum says. The knee-jerk reaction in that forum is to loudly say that Writer A was making it up or has an obvious grudge against the Pats. If Writer A is going to consult with that forum before publishing something, Writer A is going to find his ass on the street. Brew, that's literally the worst evidence you could use for why a reporter should sit on a story.
You're right, Bedard and Hernandez could be BFFs, but Bedard is fronting like he knew all along that Hernandez is bad news, which is fine. My point is, if you were so sure about it; say or write something.
I see your point but only wanted to address the bolded part. A writer isn't going to consult an online forum, but how this forum reacts is typically how the public at large would react, and the unfortunate part of journalism today is that writing is just a means to get on a radio or tv show and why risk that.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
If he's been a law abiding citizen why point out that he hangs with sketchy guys? The only upside is when something like this happens and the writer can point to the article and say SEE, I TOLD YOU FIRST!!!
If he continues to be a model citizen it's spun that you are the next Borges or Shaughnessy for picking on a poor kid that grew up in the ghetto and is trying to make a new life for himself.
Edit: I think I heard the interview in a completely different way than you did. I didn't get the feeling that Bedard was fronting at all about saying he knew Hernandez was bad news. I took it as he's known all along that Hernandez hangs with sketchy folks from his past and the organization has known all along as well but up until now it has never been an issue.
Bedard was on D & C today and he said Hernandez was a good guy. Asked if he still believed it he said yes again.
Straight up trolling a first place team one day after we put 10 on the board in a game with a guy doing a spot start:
@Dan_Shaughnessy: Has it occured to anyone that after all is said and done, Sox could finish last again? Just sayin'
@Dan_Shaughnessy: Has it occured to anyone that after all is said and done, Sox could finish last again? Just sayin'
If you focus on a 3 - 5 game sample, you can make any team look like shit.
The Red Sox were Andrew Bailey away from making this a 3-1 series win, and their road trip would look a hell of a lot better if they were able to execute in the latter innings. And mind you, they are doing all this without their best starter, who hasn't pitched in weeks.
But hey, we wouldn't be talking about Dan S if he wasn't a prick ...
The Red Sox were Andrew Bailey away from making this a 3-1 series win, and their road trip would look a hell of a lot better if they were able to execute in the latter innings. And mind you, they are doing all this without their best starter, who hasn't pitched in weeks.
But hey, we wouldn't be talking about Dan S if he wasn't a prick ...
So this morning Danny Boy tells us that this isn't the time to be talking about how Hernandez' absence impacts the Pats on the field -- let's put that silliness to the side -- and then he parses the Pats' statement that cutting the player was the "right thing to do."
Which is it, Curly Bitch? Time for somber tones or time to beat your drum that the Pats are hypocrites?
When will Dan realize that very few fans buy into or even care about how Bob Kraft tries to project the team to the media? Perhaps I'm just missing it, but what Kraft says is just white noise to me. Harmless drivel that doesn't upset or gladden me. Well, that's not true, as I hate that it gives morons like Dan and Ronny Boy an insufferable talking point.
Which is it, Curly Bitch? Time for somber tones or time to beat your drum that the Pats are hypocrites?
When will Dan realize that very few fans buy into or even care about how Bob Kraft tries to project the team to the media? Perhaps I'm just missing it, but what Kraft says is just white noise to me. Harmless drivel that doesn't upset or gladden me. Well, that's not true, as I hate that it gives morons like Dan and Ronny Boy an insufferable talking point.
The first two graphs were so good... what he's capable of... and then it went to what he sadly is.
I was thinking about this on the way home yesterday and the Patriots are in an unwinnable position. They were talking about it on Felger and Mazz yesterday and while the hosts weren't too fired up, it seems as if they understood the gray area that the team is in, some callers were irate that the Pats released Hernandez.*
* And maybe this should go in the F&M thread, but I'll keep it here too because I think it's germane to the subject.
If they suspend Hernandez, the media would say, "they're coddling the player. They don't care how this looks, the only thing that matters to Belichick and Kraft is the bottom line on the field. It's unbelievable that they'd keep this monster."
But if they release him, like they did yesterday, the Patriots aren't "letting due process take it's course. They're reacting to public opinion and don't believe in American ideals like innocent until proven guilty."
So it's like, what do you want them to do? What will make you happy? And I think that the Pats (and most other teams) realize that you're never going to make the media happy and they have to do what they think is best for the organization and let the chips fall.
* And maybe this should go in the F&M thread, but I'll keep it here too because I think it's germane to the subject.
If they suspend Hernandez, the media would say, "they're coddling the player. They don't care how this looks, the only thing that matters to Belichick and Kraft is the bottom line on the field. It's unbelievable that they'd keep this monster."
But if they release him, like they did yesterday, the Patriots aren't "letting due process take it's course. They're reacting to public opinion and don't believe in American ideals like innocent until proven guilty."
So it's like, what do you want them to do? What will make you happy? And I think that the Pats (and most other teams) realize that you're never going to make the media happy and they have to do what they think is best for the organization and let the chips fall.
So, Shaughnessy made an oblique reference to BABIP on Sports Tonight with respect to Iglesias. "He's got a ratio of balls in play.. like 60% of them become hits, that's impossible, that really is luck." I'm not imbuing any significance or specific meaning into this event, I just thought I would report it,
ForKeeps said:
Ha, I caught that too. It shocked me. Fwiw, on The Baseball Show this weekend he said, "Yeah, but what's his WAR?" when a caller up brought up a particular player's stats. Then he giggled as if it was so original or cute. Jackass.
Gee, I wonder whom Shaughnessy was alluding to today in his column about Braun and PED's. Has there ever been a player under suspicion (by Shaughnessy I take it) of using, who later turned out to be clean? No. Fans should be prepared to have well loved players tarnished. (Now, who around Boston is a well loved player? Hm.)
He's the opposite of Peter King, in that while King "believes" that being a sycophant is the same thing as being "Fair", CHB "believes" that being unnecessarily critical and cynical is the only way to be "truthful."
They're both equally wrong.
They're both equally wrong.
fineyoungarm said:
I'm not going to read his article, but the bolded part of your post sounds like perfect Shaughnessy. How can anyone possibly "later turn out to be clean"? You can't disprove a negative, so of course that's never going to happen. If it were possible, the obvious answer would in fact be Ortiz. He had rumors around him but nothing came of it. Since that's obviously not good enough, how could anyone possibly meet the criteria?
drleather2001 said:
That's who I was thinking about, but Hendu/Kutch has it right, you can't prove a negative.
Shank is on with Gresh and Zo. Someone mentions defensive metrics regarding Iglesias at 3rd and his response: "Get out of here with this crap."
Just for fun, as the ARod scandal grows and grows, here's Dan wistfully pumping ARod's tires back in 2003, complete with a negative comparison with Manny:
Well done, Dan. Your 25+ year record of never being right about anything continues unblemished. What a piece of shit he is.
Well done, Dan. Your 25+ year record of never being right about anything continues unblemished. What a piece of shit he is.
In the midst of a column praising the Sox' resiliency, he embeds this passive-aggressive insult/accusation (bold added):
He just can't help himself. He's a miserable man.
He just can't help himself. He's a miserable man.
I honestly couldn't tell if he was being sarcastic or not.
Past experience would say that he is, but that column is practically Pollyana-ish in it's praise for the Sox.
Past experience would say that he is, but that column is practically Pollyana-ish in it's praise for the Sox.
Considering his history with Ortiz, I would think he was being sarcastic....But then again he is praising the Red Sox and trying to draw a distinction from AFRAUD, so it could go either way..I guess it depends on whether or not you are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt or not. Most of the members here would not be that generous.Dick Pole Upside said:
Irony can be so ironic. It would appear that Shank called up the Herald and asked them to take it easy on his son after he got drunk, resisted arrest, and assualted some cops:
source
source
Did Sean actually do time over his little driving escapade? I didn't think he did.
I too took it as referring to CHB's son. After all the 3-2 did get arrested and booked with assaulting police officers.
I too took it as referring to CHB's son. After all the 3-2 did get arrested and booked with assaulting police officers.
Already pointed out by a Glob commenter, but did Shaughnessy even go to the game? He -- with an SF dateline -- has an early story about Bogaerts that was certainly written in the afternoon, or on the plane, for the early edition (or whatever they call it now). But no mention of a game on-line, which presumably has almost no real deadline. You have the team winning after a tough travel day, Lester nearly pitching a shutout, Ortiz at 1B, Lincecum being mortal, at best, the Giants crashing to Earth. And Shaughnessy sitting in a bathhouse somewhere?
http://business.highbeam.com/3972/article-1G1-80646822/sean-mcdonough-gets-out-violation-zone
http://business.highbeam.com/3972/article-1G1-80646822/sean-mcdonough-gets-out-violation-zone
Excellent point, I had forgotten about that! Sam Shaughnessy did get arrested and was held by police (loosely fitting the definition of "incarceration"), but I remember Sean's driving adventure as joe dokes' quoted article tells it.Humphrey said:
Dick Pole Upside said:
It is seemingly impossible to write those hundreds of words without providing a single insight. But Dan does it. Even Cafardo tries harder. If someone said about me, "Even Cafardo tries harder," I'd pack it all up and move to a deserted island and wait for the giant crabs to eat me.
Spray Tan Guy isn't just lack of insight, it's a goddamn BS cheapshot and even borderline racist considering Jacoby's Navajo roots. Shank earns his nickname at all times.joe dokes said:
In this column, he also manages to miscount the number of years since the Red Sox won the WS in 2004.
I'm not one to defend Shank, but isn't Spray Tan Guy a rib from Pedroia calling Ellsbury a pretty boy? It's possibly still racist but its definitely not original.ifmanis5 said:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/18/bet-here-that-jacoby-ellsbury-isn-with-red-sox-after-season/wz6ocpL8smeiskk3K13ZzN/story.html
It is but I'd stay away from anything even remotely tangentially racial If I was Shank.MoVaughndotORG said:
Shank work at its finest, knock the guy for refusing to talk about his next contract and focusing on 2013, but if Ellsbury had done the opposite and spoke of the future, he'd have been ripped for being self-obsessed.
One of McD's other sons was the driver in a fatal accident- he got charged w/DUI for sure..not sure what the outcome of the case was.
Not to in any way trivialize the situation, but the son seems to have turned out ok- believe he now works for the Az Cardinals after a long stint in Jacksonville
Not to in any way trivialize the situation, but the son seems to have turned out ok- believe he now works for the Az Cardinals after a long stint in Jacksonville