Daryl Morey & The Houston Rockets

knucklecup

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So they failed on Carmelo, they failed on Bosh, they signed Ariza, and lost Parsons.

Did the Lin/Asik experiment work in hindsight? Are Harden and Howard good enough to win it all? If so, why? If not, how do they get over that hump?
 

knucklecup

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RT @SherwoodStrauss: Easy to make fun of Morey now, but he's one Bosh choice away from having the league's most talented team. At least he went for it

I agree with this.

Can't look at the result and say the plan was a failure because it was so close to working remarkably well.

But what does Morey do now?
 

radsoxfan

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Really interesting offseason for the Rockets.
 
It looks like declining their option on Parsons really backfired, but I guess the gamble was worth it.  I respect Morey, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on the thought process.  Obviously without Bosh, Melo, or Parsons, it didn't work out as he would have liked.
 
As to the small forward position, I think I'd rather have Deng at 2/20 than Ariza at 4/32 (though of course we don't know if Deng would have taken 2/20 from the Rockets).  Ariza has made a career of looking like he is about to turn the corner, while then reverting to 10th man status.  I don't think I would want to bet on him for 4 years, though admittedly if the cap goes up, as long as he isn't terrible that deal should be moveable in 2 years.  
 
Overall, I see the logic in all of the decisions, so it's hard to blame Morey for not predicting the future better.  But I think he would admit in the end, this has been a bad offseason if you look purely at the results. 
 

bowiac

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I'd say Lin/Asik were mostly a failure. They're gonna  get a pick from Asik ultimately, but had to give one up to get rid of Lin. They tied up ~$32M in cap space over two years for them, for two guys who didn't blossom into assets, and didn't really work with the team the Rockets were building. That's fine - you take shots, and sometimes you miss, and didn't cost them too much in opportunity cost, but it was mostly a failure.
 
Declining Parsons' option was also a miss.
 
I think both of these "misses" were well worth the risk, as there are no sure paths to winning in the NBA, but it's not great either. (As an aside, while Morey is far from the hotseat, ownership is less than thrilled about the Parsons situation in particular).
 

radsoxfan

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bowiac said:
I'd say Lin/Asik were mostly a failure. They're gonna  get a pick from Asik ultimately, but had to give one up to get rid of Lin.
 
I think they probably hoped for better production, but overall I'm not sure it was much of a failure.  As you said, the picks were a wash.  The 8M/season/player on the cap wasn't really that bad considering their production.  I suppose it depends on who they could have gotten to fill those roles, but it didn't seem like those contracts prevented them from signing a difference maker.
 
As an added bonus, they stuck those big 3rd year 15M balloon payments on other teams.  The owner only had to pay those guys about 5M/season. Not bad.
 

knucklecup

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They were a Chris Bosh decision away from having a line up of Beverly, Harden, Parsons, Bosh, Howard. That's the best team in basketball next season.
 
I mean, the plan wasn't a failure by any stretch of the imagination.  I just hope, for Morey's sake, that he has a Plan B.
 

mcpickl

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I like pretty much everything Morey has done in Houston, but this Parsons move is a disaster.
 
If he wasn't willing to match a max offer sheet on Parsons, you can't turn down the option on him for this year. He had to know if he wasn't going to get a max offer, it would at least be in the neighborhood with all the cap space out there. Keep him for the year and let him walk next summer. Or trade him, he'd have pretty good value on a 1M/one year deal.
 
Just can't let him hit FA a year early, then let him walk away for nothing. Just a waste.
 

bowiac

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I disagree the Parsons situation was a "disaster":
 
1. They probably weren't winning a title with Parsons next year at $1M. They would still have been mostly a tier 2 Western contender, behind the Clippers, Spurs and Thunder. It sucks to lose him, but given they missed on Bosh, it was probably the difference between losing in 6 games vs. 7 to a better team.
 
2. I don't think it was clear that Parsons was going to get a max offer. People were pretty shocked when it became clear that Hayward would get that for instance. It was only clear after the Hayward offer sheet.
 
3. They were going to match on Parsons if they landed Bosh or Melo. Bosh being available was a surprise, but they had a reasonable shot of getting Melo it seemed.
 
You're right that maybe they should have traded him however. At $1M, he's a pretty amazing piece for a cap/tax constrained team trying to get over the top. The problem is those teams are all conference contenders, and probably they didn't want to help them.
 

mcpickl

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bowiac said:
I disagree the Parsons situation was a "disaster":
 
1. They probably weren't winning a title with Parsons next year at $1M. They would still have been mostly a tier 2 Western contender, behind the Clippers, Spurs and Thunder. It sucks to lose him, but given they missed on Bosh, it was probably the difference between losing in 6 games vs. 7 to a better team.
 
2. I don't think it was clear that Parsons was going to get a max offer. People were pretty shocked when it became clear that Hayward would get that for instance. It was only clear after the Hayward offer sheet.
 
3. They were going to match on Parsons if they landed Bosh or Melo. Bosh being available was a surprise, but they had a reasonable shot of getting Melo it seemed.
 
You're right that maybe they should have traded him however. At $1M, he's a pretty amazing piece for a cap/tax constrained team trying to get over the top. The problem is those teams are all conference contenders, and probably they didn't want to help them.
I'd ask on those questions.
 
1. They probably aren't winning a title without Parsons this year either. Why does that matter? It's a burnt asset either way.
 
2. May not have been clear he wasn't getting a max offer, but wouldn't you agree it was clear he'd get in the neighborhood? All reports are that last fall Gordon Hayward turned down 4/48 from Utah. If Houston thought they were going to get Parsons for much less than that, they had their heads in the sand.
 
3. I don't get this. They don't have to opt out of Parsons at 1M this year to fit Bosh/Melo. If they weren't willing to pay Parsons market rate, there is no reason to let him go a year early. RFA get overpaid every year, it can't be a surprise.
 
To the bolded, as you said they probably aren't winning a title with Parsons next year at 1M. So why should they care if they help out a conference contender(though I'm sure they could find an Eastern Conference team willing to trade for him)? They'd prefer to burn the asset for nothing than helping out another team in the West? That's some terrible decision making if true.
 
I'm sticking with disaster.
 

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I don't blame Morey one bit for his approach to the offseason. Parsons is a fine player, but he's not a franchise guy. He made sense at the max when they were on the verge of bringing Bosh into the fold but not now. You have to swing for the fences. The comparable situation is the Ray Allen trade without any explicit guarantee of landing Garnett. As for the option, I was under the impression that they needed to clear the extra million to fit the Bosh/Anthony 35% under the hard cap.
 

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BigSoxFan said:
This has been a great offseason for the Spurs. None of the top teams in the West have done much to improve outside of Dallas. Carmelo didn't go to LA. Gasol didn't go to OKC. Bosh didn't end up in Houston. Pierce didn't go to LAC on the cheap, etc.

And the East will continue to be a collection of shit unless the Cavs can figure out a Love deal.
Well, OKC got a lot better when Derek decided to become a coach
 

mcpickl

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Devizier said:
I don't blame Morey one bit for his approach to the offseason. Parsons is a fine player, but he's not a franchise guy. He made sense at the max when they were on the verge of bringing Bosh into the fold but not now. You have to swing for the fences. The comparable situation is the Ray Allen trade without any explicit guarantee of landing Garnett. As for the option, I was under the impression that they needed to clear the extra million to fit the Bosh/Anthony 35% under the hard cap.
No.
 
Parsons hold counted more against the cap than he would've if they picked up the option.
 

bball831

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As presently structured, they're probably not even a lock for the playoffs.  Morey's going to have to replace Lin and Asik in the rotation.  They could very easily find themselves at the bottom of the West or even out of the playoff picture if Phoenix or even Minnesota make the leap. 
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Devizier said:
I don't blame Morey one bit for his approach to the offseason. Parsons is a fine player, but he's not a franchise guy. He made sense at the max when they were on the verge of bringing Bosh into the fold but not now. You have to swing for the fences. The comparable situation is the Ray Allen trade without any explicit guarantee of landing Garnett. As for the option, I was under the impression that they needed to clear the extra million to fit the Bosh/Anthony 35% under the hard cap.
 
If Morey wanted to swing for the fences, he picks up Parsons' option and then tries to add a max guy and then worries about resigning Parsons next year.

From what I know about Morey he's as smart as anyone in basketball, but I think he misread how much money there was going to be sloshing around in the system this year.  As we've discussed elsewhere, the new CBA is designed to spread out the true Max talents and cost-control draft picks.  Because of this, there is a ton of money to spend on non-max players.  While this CBA is in effect, young players with upside are going to get way overpaid by somebody.
 

ishmael

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mcpickl said:
No.
 
Parsons hold counted more against the cap than he would've if they picked up the option.
Makes me think that the Parsons move was largely a wink-wink to Dwight's agent, with a hope that Parsons' offer sheet was reasonable. I think Morey would have match 4 years, $50 million.
 

Brickowski

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So if the Rockets get off to a slow start, which happens first: McHale gets fired or Dwight asks for a trade?
 

bowiac

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Brickowski said:
So if the Rockets get off to a slow start, which happens first: McHale gets fired or Dwight asks for a trade?
I don't expect either really. Are expectations high on the Rockets really? There's some pressure on the front office (not much) for the Parsons situation, but coaches get fired when expectations are high and then not met. I think Rockets fans and the front office expect to more or less tread water - hopefully make the 2nd round of the playoffs. Obviously they'd like more, but NBA fans are pretty sophisticated I find, and the front office certainly knows what's going on.
 
Dwight may ask for a trade I suppose, but I don't see why.
 

PedroKsBambino

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
 
If Morey wanted to swing for the fences, he picks up Parsons' option and then tries to add a max guy and then worries about resigning Parsons next year.
From what I know about Morey he's as smart as anyone in basketball, but I think he misread how much money there was going to be sloshing around in the system this year.  As we've discussed elsewhere, the new CBA is designed to spread out the true Max talents and cost-control draft picks.  Because of this, there is a ton of money to spend on non-max players.  While this CBA is in effect, young players with upside are going to get way overpaid by somebody.
 
Agreed.  I generally like the gamble he took this summer of trying to build a great team, even acknowledging it crapped out.
 
If I were the owner the one thing I'd go back and recheck (since I'm sure the thinking was done ahead of time) was the assessment of spending across the league.  It feels to me like the opennness to spending should have been at least partially anticipated, and that does impact the gamble above since it impacts the probability someone will do what Dallas did.
 
Put another way, the only question I'd have is how effectively they did their scenario planning.  If they had the scenarios right and just missed on Bosh, then I would (as the owner) say that tomorrow is another day and that we're going to come out ahead more often than not with high-quality planning.
 

bowiac

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The other thing I've heard with Parsons is that the structure of the Dallas deal makes it almost impossible to trade that contract. It's not simply the max salary that scared them off - it's the unmovable nature of the contract. Anticipating that another team, with cap space, would screw with them as effectively as Dallas did was hard to foresee, although I think we should expect more and more it in the future.
 
They may well have matched a traditional max three year deal. As we've seen, even large salaries are movable in the NBA if you throw in a pick.
 

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bowiac said:
 Anticipating that another team, with cap space, would screw with them as effectively as Dallas did was hard to foresee, although I think we should expect more and more it in the future.
 
 
Houston themselves were the ones who did this two years ago with Asik and Lin, it's a black mark against Morey if he really didn't expect there was a good chance someone would try something similar with Parsons. 
 

bowiac

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jon abbey said:
Houston themselves were the ones who did this two years ago with Asik and Lin, it's a black mark against Morey if he really didn't expect there was a good chance someone would try something similar with Parsons. 
I mean, when you're the only doing something so far, it's hard to anticipate when exactly someone else will catch up with you. This strikes me being a lot more obvious in hindsight, but maybe I'm not being harsh enough here.
 

PedroKsBambino

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bowiac said:
The other thing I've heard with Parsons is that the structure of the Dallas deal makes it almost impossible to trade that contract. It's not simply the max salary that scared them off - it's the unmovable nature of the contract. Anticipating that another team, with cap space, would screw with them as effectively as Dallas did was hard to foresee, although I think we should expect more and more it in the future.
 
They may well have matched a traditional max three year deal. As we've seen, even large salaries are movable in the NBA if you throw in a pick.
 
Candidly, if that was the explanation Morey gave me I'd consider firing him---it's totally and obviously foreseeable someone would do that; it is exactly what happened in the NFL multiple times as their FA evolved.  If they didn't foresee multiple ways someone might try to make it hard to match then 1) they are not nearly as good a front office as rumored and 2) they need to get some more strategic thinkers in there to balance out the analytics guys.  
 
Your explanation is exactly what I mean about quality scenario planning---what they should have done (and I suspect did, just based on quality of the front office) is go through each team and try to anticipate what that team might do, and then how they'd put an offer together that wouldn't be matched.
 
Zach Lowe has said that truly great cap guys are where the league is short, and so perhaps I'm being too harsh.  But if I were an owner I'd expect my guys to have thought through all the 'plays' that other teams might run given their perceived interests and calculated those into the overall planning.  That is what goes on in the corporate sector and if it isn't a capability NBA teams have, they should (and can) get it.
 

bowiac

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PedroKsBambino said:
Zach Lowe has said that truly great cap guys are where the league is short, and so perhaps I'm being too harsh.  But if I were an owner I'd expect my guys to have thought through all the 'plays' that other teams might run given their perceived interests and calculated those into the overall planning.  That is what goes on in the corporate sector and if it isn't a capability NBA teams have, they should (and can) get it.
I think this line of thinking is mistaken, precisely because of what Lowe said. The truly great cap guys is where the league is short, and the Rockets are one of the few teams that have them. That's why it's totally reasonable to expect that the rest of the league is still behind the curve in this respect.
 
You can't be turning down "profitable" opportunities because someone can theoretically screw you. You need to consider the likelihood of that happening. There's a risk/reward analysis you need to go through. The risk here was:
 
1. Parsons gets offered a max deal.
2. The team that makes him that offer has an interest in screwing Houston. (Obviously everyone wants to screw everyone, but this isn't "free" - Dallas locked up max cap room for three days without know if they'd end up with Parsons).
3. The team that makes him that offer is smart enough to design a contract that screws Houston.
4. The team that makes him that offer is willing to themselves take on a contract that is untradeable. (This is a big one - Dallas is stuck with Parsons themselves now).
5. The Rockets strike out on Melo.
6. The Rockets strike out on Bosh or any other max guy who is around.
 
All six of those things need to happen here. I don't know what the ex ante likelihood of that chain of events was, but I don't think was especially high.
 
That's the risk. What's the downside? You miss out on one cheap year of Chandler Parsons. I think that's well worth it, even if it didn't work. Maybe it was blindingly obvious to you in retrospect, but fact that nobody other than the Rockets had shown a interest/willingness/capability to play RFA cap games is pretty salient to me n this regard.
 
You say it's totally obvious and foreseeable - most things are after the fact I guess. Kudos to you, you're smarter than me or the Rockets front office/ownership.
 

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mcpickl said:
No.
 
Parsons hold counted more against the cap than he would've if they picked up the option.
 
Well, in that context, turning down the option was a huge mistake. I forgot about the RFA cap hold.
 
This is a "bird in hand" type scenario, nothing more complicated than that.
 

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PedroKsBambino said:
Zach Lowe has said that truly great cap guys are where the league is short, and so perhaps I'm being too harsh.
Without talking out of school, my understanding is that this isn't true. The cap isn't that hard and many GMs are hired in no small part because they really do understand the cap. My understanding is that much of the "the cap is complicated" stuff comes from former players in executive positions, not MBA or legal guys.

I was exploring building a CBA-compliant cap simulator and situation planner (think a self-aware Trade Machine), but the market appeared really really small.
 
But if I were an owner I'd expect my guys to have thought through all the 'plays' that other teams might run given their perceived interests and calculated those into the overall planning.  That is what goes on in the corporate sector and if it isn't a capability NBA teams have, they should (and can) get it.
I think they did and guessed wrong. Shit happens. Morey's track record is still ridiculously good.
 

PedroKsBambino

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bowiac said:
I think this line of thinking is mistaken, precisely because of what Lowe said. The truly great cap guys is where the league is short, and the Rockets are one of the few teams that have them. That's why it's totally reasonable to expect that the rest of the league is still behind the curve in this respect.
 
You can't be turning down "profitable" opportunities because someone can theoretically screw you. You need to consider the likelihood of that happening. There's a risk/reward analysis you need to go through. The risk here was:
 
1. Parsons gets offered a max deal.
2. The team that makes him that offer has an interest in screwing Houston. (Obviously everyone wants to screw everyone, but this isn't "free" - Dallas locked up max cap room for three days without know if they'd end up with Parsons).
3. The team that makes him that offer is smart enough to design a contract that screws Houston.
4. The team that makes him that offer is willing to themselves take on a contract that is untradeable. (This is a big one - Dallas is stuck with Parsons themselves now).
5. The Rockets strike out on Melo.
6. The Rockets strike out on Bosh or any other max guy who is around.
 
All six of those things need to happen here. I don't know what the ex ante likelihood of that chain of events was, but I don't think was especially high.
 
That's the risk. What's the downside? You miss out on one cheap year of Chandler Parsons. I think that's well worth it, even if it didn't work. Maybe it was blindingly obvious to you in retrospect, but fact that nobody other than the Rockets had shown a interest/willingness/capability to play RFA cap games is pretty salient to me n this regard.
 
You say it's totally obvious and foreseeable - most things are after the fact I guess. Kudos to you, you're smarter than me or the Rockets front office/ownership.
 
You seem to think I've suggested they shouldn't have made the moves they did because of the risk of it not working---to be really clear, that is not what I suggested or how I would expect a sophisticated organization to think about the problem.  I think the Rockets likely did the right analysis, and reached what I suspect was the right decision for them even though it didn't work out.  But I'm just guessing, and as noted the before the sub-optimal outcome does leave open a real possibility they blew the analysis.
 
There's a whole bunch of interrelated factors involved in determining ahead of time what might happen and how you should manage it, and they don't net out in a purely linear way; it's a dynamic market and thus one has to model scenarios, with inherent uncertainty.  This is how economists and business strategists handle these problems every day, and I suspect how the best front offices in sports do so as well.    That's scenario planning.  I don't think any senior decision maker in a competitive league like the NBA should (or, I suspect does) assume that the rest of the league are far behind the curve, either---that's a prescription for trouble.  So on that one part of the assessment, if they thought of it like you suggest above they made a significant mistake (which happens to be what we saw actually play out)
 
To elaborate a little on how I suspect this goes, a team likely goes through a rigorous process to evaluate what other teams might do (with a couple permutations, since they of course can't be sure how other teams will act) and how the market might evolve based on those things happening.  This includes who might bid, how might they bid, how might Parsons respond, how can we influence those three factors, how would external events (such as Lebron opting out) impact the above, etc.   All of this together should be used to help the team evaluate the risks and rewards available from different paths (exercise Parsons' option, negotiate an extension, etc.) to arrive at a preferred path and an understanding of alternate paths.  So it's the sum of a whole bunch of different scenarios that gets you to the decision in my mind, not just the probability of a particular path occurring.
 
If they did this, and I suspect they probably did or something like it, they'd have recognized the risk that another team (and off top of my head Dallas is one of a small set who one could have imagined might) would offer a max deal, and would structure it in a way to complicate matching.   It's not a 100% probability, and you'd have to decide whether to measure risk quantitatively or qualitatively...but either way, you figure in the uncertainty of what others do, and consider that in your process.   You'd also have at least scenario-planned whether teams might do other things that did not occur---offer a huge one-year deal, etc.   This all sits beneath determining the 'risk' as you simplify it, and is part of reaching a decision about what to do.
 
To net that all out, if the Rockets didn't see someone trying what Dallas did then to me there is a very significant question about how good a cap guy they have.   That noted, I suspect they do have strength there, and thus did anticipate this scenario.  As stated earlier, I also think a good analysis that evaluates all these scenarios (the one that actually occurred and many others that did not) can determine that in spite of this risk the Parsons/Bosh plan was the right one, and as I said initially this feels to me like a reasonable assessment.  But just to be clear: if the explanation someone from the team gives is 'we didn't see this move coming' as you suggested previously, then Morey needs to add some capability to the team because they underprepared. 
 

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I don't disagree with any of the process based questions, and that is basically what the Rockets did/do. That's what most competent teams do.
 
We mostly disagree about whether it was totally obvious and foreseeable ex ante. As I said, you think it was. Kudos to you for being the smartest guy in the room I guess.
 

PedroKsBambino

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bowiac said:
I don't disagree with any of the process based questions, and that is basically what the Rockets did/do. That's what most competent teams do.
 
We mostly disagree about whether it was totally obvious and foreseeable ex ante. As I said, you think it was. Kudos to you for being the smartest guy in the room I guess.
 
I strongly suspect many teams thought it was foreseeable as well; I suspect you are underplaying how sophisticated the decision making process is. Alternatively, it could be that I'm overestimating how well NBA teams have adopted what is done in the corporate world and in other major sports;   based on what I've read about a couple of the local team approaches, I'd be pretty surprised if the NBA is all that far behind other sports, though.  I could certainly be wrong there....wouldn't surprise me if we find out (at least implicitly) at next year's Sloan conference.
 
As others noted, it is not credible to say that a creative contract designed to make it harder to match was unforeseeable given that the very same front office used a creative contract designed to make it hard to match just a couple summers ago.  I don't think it takes the smartest guy in the room to see this...if anything, it just requires that you appreciate other teams are smart, too.
 

ishmael

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PedroKsBambino said:
 
But just to be clear: if the explanation someone from the team gives is 'we didn't see this move coming' as you suggested previously, then Morey needs to add some capability to the team because they underprepared. 
And if it is a move to make Dwight's agent happy, that is exactly what they'd have to say. First rule of Fight Club and all that...
 

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Well, not really. The article starts with a bunch of snarky comments, for sure, but basically concludes with a paean to him, i.e.,: "it’s important to be real about all this. Ninety percent of NBA fans would kill to have him running their team."
 

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I agree with the Grantland article in that it is not hard to imagine other players would not have any strong desire to play with Dwight or a player like Harden who requires a ton of the ball and plays no defense. 
 

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Really? I mean Howard may have a dipshit personality and all, but he's pretty ideal if you're a star because his game is still centered more on defense, rebounds, and getting points off of rebounds -- along, with, yes, more post-ups than should probably happen. He certainly didn't crimp Harden at all last year. Everyone was applauding the would-be Bosh move because so easy to see how that would mesh -- I suspect that's easier with Howard than with most stars.
 

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HOU should think about offering Eric Bledsoe a big Parsons-type deal and seeing if maybe PHO won't match since they have Dragic and Isiah Thomas now. They probably would, but maybe worth a shot?
 

mcpickl

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bowiac said:
I think this line of thinking is mistaken, precisely because of what Lowe said. The truly great cap guys is where the league is short, and the Rockets are one of the few teams that have them. That's why it's totally reasonable to expect that the rest of the league is still behind the curve in this respect.
 
You can't be turning down "profitable" opportunities because someone can theoretically screw you. You need to consider the likelihood of that happening. There's a risk/reward analysis you need to go through. The risk here was:
 
1. Parsons gets offered a max deal.
2. The team that makes him that offer has an interest in screwing Houston. (Obviously everyone wants to screw everyone, but this isn't "free" - Dallas locked up max cap room for three days without know if they'd end up with Parsons).
3. The team that makes him that offer is smart enough to design a contract that screws Houston.
4. The team that makes him that offer is willing to themselves take on a contract that is untradeable. (This is a big one - Dallas is stuck with Parsons themselves now).
5. The Rockets strike out on Melo.
6. The Rockets strike out on Bosh or any other max guy who is around.
 
All six of those things need to happen here. I don't know what the ex ante likelihood of that chain of events was, but I don't think was especially high.
 
That's the risk. What's the downside? You miss out on one cheap year of Chandler Parsons. I think that's well worth it, even if it didn't work. Maybe it was blindingly obvious to you in retrospect, but fact that nobody other than the Rockets had shown a interest/willingness/capability to play RFA cap games is pretty salient to me n this regard.
 
You say it's totally obvious and foreseeable - most things are after the fact I guess. Kudos to you, you're smarter than me or the Rockets front office/ownership.
Why do all of those six things have to happen to screw up Houstons' plan?
 
If, as you said above, the structure of the contract makes it impossible to move and Houston may have matched a standard three year max deal, the plan could easily have gone like this.
 
1. Houston offers Parsons a three year max deal.
 
The End
 

radsoxfan

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mcpickl said:
Why do all of those six things have to happen to screw up Houstons' plan?
 
If, as you said above, the structure of the contract makes it impossible to move and Houston may have matched a standard three year max deal, the plan could easily have gone like this.
 
1. Houston offers Parsons a three year max deal.
 
The End
 
There's no doubt Morey comes out of this looking terrible.  At best, it was a risky gamble that unfortunately turned up snake eyes.  At worst, it was just plain dumb.
 
Sometimes when you think you are ahead of your competitors, it's actually because you are about to be lapped. 
 

bowiac

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mcpickl said:
Why do all of those six things have to happen to screw up Houstons' plan?
Well, because if any of the six don't happen, then Houston is fine? What part confuses you?
 
Houston couldn't offer Parsons a three year max. Doing so would have changed Parsons' cap hold, and prevented them from signing Bosh/Melo.
 
radsoxfan said:
There's no doubt Morey comes out of this looking terrible.  At best, it was a risky gamble that unfortunately turned up snake eyes.  At worst, it was just plain dumb.
I think this is the reasoning that gets teams to punt on 4th and 1 from the opponent's 40 yard line, but as I've said, I don't think it was especially risky at the time, and the reward far outweighed the risk. Hard to really defend something being unlikely after it's happened however.
 

radsoxfan

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bowiac said:
 
I think this is the reasoning that gets teams to punt on 4th and 1 from the opponent's 40 yard line, but as I've said, I don't think it was especially risky at the time, and the reward far outweighed the risk. Hard to really defend something being unlikely after it's happened however.
 
With an N of 1, certainly we're all just guessing how unlikely this ultimate outcome was prospectively.  Things that only have a small % chance of happening of course happen all the time. 
 
All risk is not good risk though. Just because its dumb to punt on 4th and 1 at the 40, that doesn't mean it's always good to take the riskier side of the decision tree. Playing it safe and just picking up Parson's 1 year sub-1M option was an entirely reasonable move. 
 
We'll never know for sure how unlucky Morey got in this case, but I tend to lean more toward him outsmarting himself a bit on this one.  
 

bowiac

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Yeah - I don't think all risk is good. I just think this was a low risk move (maybe ~20% chance of blowing up like this), and the reward (if they landed a max guy, having Parsons too) is a pretty big deal for a team trying to win a title without a LeBron/Durant/Paul. They need every inch of talent they can get. They've moved on by now to trying to find another star.
 

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HomeRunBaker

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jon abbey said:
Some odd quotes from Parsons in this piece, either Morey somehow didn't make the macro plan clear enough to him ("Chandler, we're not trying to replace you, we're trying to add another impact player in addition to you to try to put us over the top") or it somehow got lost in translation:
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/new-maverick-chandler-parsons-takes-offense-to-how-rockets-treated-him-during-free-agency-030411610.html
It sounds as simple as that Morey viewed him as a very good complimentary player while Parsons views himself as a star in the making. It's perfectly reasonable for a young player to feel this way since it's that confidence/ego that is what's necessary to reach the level he has.
 

crystalline

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JP
If the Rockets picked up the option and everything else played out the same way, they'd be very likely to lose him in FA next year, correct?

So they declined the option hoping to get him on a longer term FA deal, instead of losing him after a year. That's a reasonable gamble even separate from the Bosh/Melo machinations.
 

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If we step back from more extreme views of "Morey screwed up" and "Morey has the best of everything he couldn't have screwed up, ever!!!!!!" expressed here, the consensus from people with different philosophies about metrics, management, and scouting is that the risk here was worth the reward.  Which is kind of interesting (and I think correct).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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crystalline said:
If the Rockets picked up the option and everything else played out the same way, they'd be very likely to lose him in FA next year, correct?

So they declined the option hoping to get him on a longer term FA deal, instead of losing him after a year. That's a reasonable gamble even separate from the Bosh/Melo machinations.
 
I don't know how likely they would be at losing him; it would really depend on his output this year.  One could argue that If Morey signed Bosh and picked up Parsons' option, there is a chance that Parsons' usage would go down and perhaps skewing his numbers (and someone's offer) down.
 
Also, perhaps if Parsons is playing on a cheap contract and they come close to winning a world championship, he'll want take a discount to continue playing with Howard and Harden and Bosh.
 
I don't know; it seems to me that Morey was trying to be too clever by half; but in all likelihood, winning a world championship is going to depend more on this "third star" that Morey keeps talking about, not Chandler Parsons.
 

Clears Cleaver

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if Morey's actions had been done by Billy King or David Kahn, it would be a national mocking fest. Morey f'd up and probably cost his team any chance to compete for a title for the next couple years. But shows how tough ti is to build a championship team when you draft terribly
 
And I think there is something to the Harden/Dwight stuff.
 

bowiac

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Clears Cleaver said:
if Morey's actions had been done by Billy King or David Kahn, it would be a national mocking fest. Morey f'd up and probably cost his team any chance to compete for a title for the next couple years. But shows how tough ti is to build a championship team when you draft terribly
Lets ignore the idea that Morey "f'ed up" (which I think is wrong, but reasonable minds can differ) - how did he cost his chance to compete for a title for the next couple years?
 

DJnVa

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bowiac said:
Lets ignore the idea that Morey "f'ed up" (which I think is wrong, but reasonable minds can differ) - how did he cost his chance to compete for a title for the next couple years?
 
I guess you are being literal here, because lots can happen, but isn't the general consensus is that they are worse now than they were last season?
 

bowiac

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DrewDawg said:
I guess you are being literal here, because lots can happen, but isn't the general consensus is that they are worse now than they were last season?
I mean, I expect them to mostly tread water (Ariza is just as good as Parsons), but even if you don't think Ariza is a good fit, they weren't really title contenders with Parsons regardless, right? And there's no "couple years" impact - it's one season.
 
This isn't a nitpicky point - it's related to the size of the risk.
 

Clears Cleaver

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my understanding is that Houston has little in assets to trade and a roster that is likely worse than last year. with limited flexibility to do something next year. He went for it and it didn't work and now he has the fifth or sixth best team in the conference with limited flexibility. That is NBA hell, right?