#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
This is a phenomenal study.drleather2001 said:
Beyond that, I can tell you from firsthand experience that there is absolutely a different between kicking in cold temps versus high ones. It's not so much the ball, but more what the cold does to your foot. You lose all sense of feel needed for good contact with the ball. When temps go below 45 or so, your foot turns into a brick. It's not a fun experience.
That was kinda my point with the 2nd part.E5 Yaz said:
"We need a hot deflate-gate take... find a player who the patiots have beaten in the past 15 years!!!"
I have to agree with this take on Bill Nye.kartvelo said:
Friction (rubbing/scrubbing) results in thermal energy (heat).
It is not possible to deny this in the realm of footballs and any contacting medium
I didn't know of any "friction deniers" until this week...
Bill Nye can still step in, conduct and actual experiment, and use his hard-earned respect to teach an entire generation of kids (and adults) that science requires rigorous testing and verification, and that without being rigorous and thorough one is giving science a bad name ; )
It's still on YouTube I believe, if one were so inclined to look.drleather2001 said:
As for why there are isn't a long history of complaints regarding the feel of the ball in cold weather games could be explained rather easily.
On most given plays there are only three players on the field who generally touch the ball, the Center, the Quarteback and the skill player targeted. These players maybe a bit more inclined to focus on the fact that freakishly large individuals are actively looking to kill them while they execute an elaborate sequence of events rather than if the ball feels a bit squooshy.
And according to said Sport Science report the amount of weight being discussed in this amount of a psi drop within a football is equivant to that of a dollar bill. I don't know, would anyone notice the difference in the weight of their wallet after they purchased a newspaper?
I posted something about that about 5000 replies ago - the pressure was about 29.9 inches at 4PM, and around 29.7 at halftime. That atmospheric pressure drop would increase the gauge reading by about 0.1 PSIFred not Lynn said:
Stu Nahan said:
For what it's worth (probably not much), I had dinner with someone "close to his thinking" on Friday, and apparently Simmons' source is two business associates of Brady's. I still think the idea is somewhat preposterous, and perhaps someone is messing with him, but he (BS) was fed that from someone else.
For what it's worth, I don't read him nor listen to him, so I don't know much beyond the general speculation that apparently hasn't died out (on his part).
Ray Lewis: Pats should have asterisk for cheating.
Ray Lewis should have asterisk for being a human.
Ray Lewis should have asterisk for being a human.
This link that Walpole posted a while back makes a TON of sense:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/physicist-emailed-us-explain-exactly-143048032.html
This physicist posits that:
1. the Patriots hand over their footballs, with temperature (and thus pressure) raised from the ball preparations.
2. Because the football exterior is a poor conductor of heat, the excess temperature/pressure inside the ball is maintained for a while. (SumnerH made this point a few hundred pages ago - this makes sense if you assume that the Pats' prep work goes on for an extended period of time ie long enough for the whole ball to equillibrate to a higher temp.
3. The officials test the footballs and perhaps even have to DEFLATE them to 12.5.
4. Over the course of the game, the footballs cool to ambient temperature and their internal pressure falls.
Even if Belichick suspected this of happening, it probably wouldn't have served him to lob a direct accusation at the refs - although might explain why he said additional investigations outside the Patriots were needed.
Reasons why Pats footballs might have behaved differently from Colts footballs:
1. Officials measured Patriots footballs first (before they had cooled to ambient), then Colts footballs.
2. Colts use different prep/storage methods.
3. Colts ask for balls at 13.5 or do not specify any particular pressure.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/physicist-emailed-us-explain-exactly-143048032.html
This physicist posits that:
1. the Patriots hand over their footballs, with temperature (and thus pressure) raised from the ball preparations.
2. Because the football exterior is a poor conductor of heat, the excess temperature/pressure inside the ball is maintained for a while. (SumnerH made this point a few hundred pages ago - this makes sense if you assume that the Pats' prep work goes on for an extended period of time ie long enough for the whole ball to equillibrate to a higher temp.
3. The officials test the footballs and perhaps even have to DEFLATE them to 12.5.
4. Over the course of the game, the footballs cool to ambient temperature and their internal pressure falls.
Even if Belichick suspected this of happening, it probably wouldn't have served him to lob a direct accusation at the refs - although might explain why he said additional investigations outside the Patriots were needed.
Reasons why Pats footballs might have behaved differently from Colts footballs:
1. Officials measured Patriots footballs first (before they had cooled to ambient), then Colts footballs.
2. Colts use different prep/storage methods.
3. Colts ask for balls at 13.5 or do not specify any particular pressure.
njnesportsfan said:
And Ray Lewis should've been watching the last 15 Super Bowls from here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_State_Prison
djbayko said:
Huh? You only have to raise the ball 20F to get it up by 1 PSI. You could probably get a 65F ball up to 85F just holding it between your legs to stabilize it while you prepped it (from body heat alone), and friction's going to add something to that. Rub your hands together for 20 seconds and you can easily feel them heat up.
KenTremendous said:
No, not noticeably. We're talking pretty minute variances here. By all accounts it's difficult to which ball is which when you're directly comparing 2 balls that are 3 PSI apart; it's highly unlikely that anyone would be able to notice it when they're just playing with one ball.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Such videos have been posted numerous times in this thread. Unsurprisingly, science works.
JayGlazer
@JayGlazer
Breaking news: sources tell @FOXSports the NFL has zeroed in on a locker room attendant w Patriots who allegedly took balls from officials locker room to another area on way to field. Sources say they have interviewed him and additionally have video. Still gauging if any wrong doing occurred with him but he is strong person of interest
2015-01-26
https://twitter.com/JayGlazer/status/559809053937778688
@JayGlazer
Breaking news: sources tell @FOXSports the NFL has zeroed in on a locker room attendant w Patriots who allegedly took balls from officials locker room to another area on way to field. Sources say they have interviewed him and additionally have video. Still gauging if any wrong doing occurred with him but he is strong person of interest
2015-01-26
https://twitter.com/JayGlazer/status/559809053937778688
So it sounds like what y'all are saying is that I should get a couple of students together to make a cool demo and put it out there as "Caltech astrophysicist demonstrates Boyle's Law works" or something like that? *sigh*
E5 Yaz said:
This is amusing in the same way it's amusing when a person says he or she has not had previous lovers to his or her spouse.
After Belichick and Brady's performance, I refuse to believe this is anything. That "other area" was probably him taking a piss or grabbing a coffee on the way to the field.
Person of interest. JFC. How long before he's Public Enemy #1.
Need Bill photoshopped onto the FBI Most Wanted List.
Need Bill photoshopped onto the FBI Most Wanted List.
Not to quibble but the ball itself is probably not a particularly bad conductor of heat (the insulation value of the leather, and rubber bladder [edit: at the thickness in question] is not high and the internal gas is under pressure).Eddie Jurak said:
However, for such a low delta-T, the rate of heat loss is reduced (heat is lost faster when the temp difference is higher...the ball could have been at 80d and cooling down to 75...the exchange rate is low).
Anyway it doesn't change your overalls analysis. Point is, it takes some time for a ball to cool off by 5 degrees and it's incrementally slower as the delta T gets smaller
Florio is going to be pissed that he got scooped.
This is the obvious person to come under suspicion, so unless he's talking or they have video, big deal. But if they do (or he did), Pats are going to get a major smack down.
This is the obvious person to come under suspicion, so unless he's talking or they have video, big deal. But if they do (or he did), Pats are going to get a major smack down.
SumnerH said:
Yes, but you need to do it long enough to bring all of the air in that ball up to the same temperature as the outside of the ball. I don't think it's as easy as you think, but it's also not too important unless the Pats come out and say it was all done manually.