CaptainLaddie said:
Wait, holy fuck: they named a fucking hospital after Peyton Manning???
He can freaking cure cancer during the regular season.
CaptainLaddie said:
Wait, holy fuck: they named a fucking hospital after Peyton Manning???
I love it when foreigners go on and on about quaint sayings from the old country.WayBackVazquez said:That may be the greatest quote of all time.
Ralphwiggum said:
Seriously? You believe that the NFL had to find the Pats/Tom "guilty' because the alternative would be to try to explain some really hard science stuff to stupid Americans?
Aha. The real deflator must be Jimmy Garoppolo.Rudy Pemberton said:If Brady is suspended, I hope he immediately retires and tells Goodell to go fuck himself, followed by Belichick doing the same thing. What a joke this whole ridiculous saga is. Drigs, domestic abuse, and this is what the league singling to take a stand on? Is this whole thing even real? The WWE seems more legit at this point.
This makes some sense, but...wouldn't there be more stuff out there that shows they cheat than something literally no one cared about before? The argument is basically "they win a lot and they videotaped signals 8 years ago and they aren't friendly."Van Everyman said:I'm a Pats homer but I keep coming back to wondering why the League has made such a big deal out of this. And the only explanation I can come up with is that this whole "everybody knows they cheat"/"we finally got 'em" thing is driving it.
From the NFL's perspective, Deflategate almost seems like getting Al Capone on tax evasion – nailing a criminal mastermind on a somewhat superfluous charge. Otherwise I just don't understand how you can even consider suspending the reigning Super Bowl MVP for something you have no evidence he was even involved in.
crystalline said:Academic institutions don't do this kind of work.
SemperFidelisSox said:But Brady isn't being suspended under the tampering of football rule. He's being suspended for violating the leagues policy on 'Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of Competitive Rules'.
Yes, this is exactly correct. The point is, you don't just call up Princeton, ask to speak to a physicist and then have someone who is perfectly suited to NFL football analysis. The NFL hired a particle physicist, who isn't going to be an expert at this stuff (although it appears he teaches basic physics classes which may cover parts of it). You want an engineering prof who has experience doing this exact type of work and who also has consulting experience. And even then you will normally be working through a consulting firm that provides back office, analyst support, etc.Shelterdog said:
Professors do this kind of work all the time--and the NFL did hire one. But the typical way to retain a professor is to work through someone like Exponent (a firm like exponent provides the back office, secretarial support, smart analysts to do actual work, etc.)
uncannymanny said:Part of me hopes he gets suspended and retires. No better way to fuck Goodell than that.
crystalline said:Yes, this is exactly correct. The point is, you don't just call up Princeton, ask to speak to a physicist and then have someone who is perfectly suited to NFL football analysis. The NFL hired a particle physicist, who isn't going to be an expert at this stuff (although it appears he teaches basic physics classes which may cover parts of it). You want an engineering prof who has experience doing this exact type of work and who also has consulting experience. And even then you will normally be working through a consulting firm that provides back office, analyst support, etc.
The potential conversation posted above Wells had with consultants is exactly right, and hilarious. "Your gauges have a 0.4 psi difference? You don't know which one was used? And you're trying to discern a 0.35 psig variation? So what exactly would you like me to do for you again???"
crystalline said:Yes, this is exactly correct. The point is, you don't just call up Princeton, ask to speak to a physicist and then have someone who is perfectly suited to NFL football analysis. The NFL hired a particle physicist, who isn't going to be an expert at this stuff (although it appears he teaches basic physics classes which may cover parts of it). You want an engineering prof who has experience doing this exact type of work and who also has consulting experience. And even then you will normally be working through a consulting firm that provides back office, analyst support, etc.
The potential conversation posted above Wells had with consultants is exactly right, and hilarious. "Your gauges have a 0.4 psi difference? You don't know which one was used? And you're trying to discern a 0.35 psig variation? So what exactly would you like me to do for you again???"
soxhop411 said:
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 51s51 seconds ago
My guess on Brady suspension: Four games for the violation, plus something more for the refusal to fully cooperate with the investigation.
dcmissle said:Actually the Myers article links the thinking and it is not surprising. TB will be nailed for alleged role in deflation and for refusal to part with cell records. And that would set a pretty good stage for the suspension to be cut in half
dcmissle said:Actually the Myers article links the thinking and it is not surprising. TB will be nailed for alleged role in deflation
and for refusal to part with cell records. And that would set a pretty good stage for the suspension to be cut in half
Theo asked the members to advise Tom Brady.LuckyBen said:I keep hearing people say Brady should've just come clean before the super bowl or now and this would've all gone away. Amazingly it's always non-pats fans saying it.
I was referring to every show on Maddog sports or ESPN radio. To me, it just doesn't add up to a smart move. If Arod admitted to steroid use at the start of it, I doubt he is even playing Major League Baseball today and his legacy was shit from the start anyways.Fred in Lynn said:Theo asked the members to advise Tom Brady.
ivanvamp said:
Uh no, that would be bad.
I hope if he gets suspended that the Patriots trot out #12 to start game 1 of the season. Force them to stop the game or call a forfeit or whatever. Make it a total mess.
It depends. When I've had unique cases I call college engineering and science departments directly and find out which professor would be best for my case. Or I'll ca up local engineering firms and see who is most qualified.Shelterdog said:
Professors do this kind of work all the time--and the NFL did hire one. But the typical way to retain a professor is to work through someone like Exponent (a firm like exponent provides the back office, secretarial support, smart analysts to do actual work, etc.)
I don't understand why you are so confident about this; it's the aspect of the case that concerns me most.MuppetAsteriskTalk said:I don't believe Brady refusing to turn over his PERSONAL cell phone and email can be used as a basis for punishment. I mean, Roger can cite it, but it's going to get tossed out on appeal.
My workmate (a Gators Fan) is now saying "we think that Hernandez is not as bad as Brady".RedOctober3829 said:Turned on NY sports radio on my drive in to the office. Heard host compare Brady worse than ARod. Now my head hurts from banging it against my desk
This is the weakest aspect of the case, as I have been saying for days. I don't know how Goodell has a basis for drawing factual inferences that Wells declined to draw. So then you are left with Tom's awareness, which I would seem insufficient.Van Everyman said:Putting aside the "more probable than not" language, how do you suspend someone for being "at least generally aware" of something? Shouldn't the finding be something like "at least tangentially involved"?
Perhaps lawyers could help me out here but "generally aware" does not seem to suggest any active role whatsoever, and the rest of the argument appears to hinge on the Marc Brunell theory that "Tom must have known."
dcmissle said:Actually the Myers article links the thinking and it is not surprising. TB will be nailed for alleged role in deflation and for refusal to part with cell records. And that would set a pretty good stage for the suspension to be cut in half
Gostkowski didn't turn over his phone or email either.MuppetAsteriskTalk said:I don't believe Brady refusing to turn over his PERSONAL cell phone and email can be used as a basis for punishment. I mean, Roger can cite it, but it's going to get tossed out on appeal.
dcmissle said:I don't understand why you are so confident about this; it's the aspect of the case that concerns me most.
Take the request for cell records out of this context. Suppose there were litigation arising out of this matter, and a subpoena were served on TB for the records. I think there is a pretty good chance a judge would enforce that subpoena, particularly with the safeguards offered by Wells.
What I cannot evaluate right now is the extent to which the refusal impeded his investigation, which will be an important factor.
Hoya81 said:Gostkowski didn't turn over his phone or email either.
Cite me something to support the argument that union members' records are immune.jsinger121 said:
But the NFL doesn't live in a world of subpoenas and Tom Brady isn't required to hand over his cell phone since he is a member of the union (NFLPA). The fact that he is part of the union is a huge reason while pretty much any NFL suspension would be overturned or reduced to a game if that.
dhellers said:My workmate (a Gators Fan) is now saying "we think that Hernandez is not as bad as Brady".
Get used to it. As my wife's boss used to say, "its like being kicked to death by rabbits"
I tell clients their case sucks if it does. If some of those clients then decide that they don't want to call me again, fuck them - I don't want to work with them anyway. I'll take the calls from people who want to know the truth and then decide what to do with that.Bongorific said:I use college professors and private engineering firms frequently in civil litigation cases. They come off as way more genuine in front of a jury than professional litigation consultants. They are also much more honest and will tell you when your case sucks. The professional firms will tell you anything you want once the check is cashed.
PW blew that here and the bias is obvious. By using Exponent versus a group of professors or private engineers, it's evident that the purpose of the report was to support their client's argument, not to conduct a fact finding mission.
dcmissle said:Cite me something to support the argument that union members' records are immune.
Suppose this were a gambling investigation by the League. Are you sticking to that?
dcmissle said:Cite me something to support the argument that union members' records are immune.
Suppose this were a gambling investigation by the League. Are you sticking to that?
It's a variant of a legal theory (vicarious liability) that's typically used to assign liability to an organization or higher management, not a non-supervisory co-worker.Van Everyman said:Putting aside the "more probable than not" language, how do you suspend someone for being "at least generally aware" of something? Shouldn't the finding be something like "at least tangentially involved"?
Perhaps lawyers could help me out here but "generally aware" does not seem to suggest any active role whatsoever, and the rest of the argument appears to hinge on the Marc Brunell theory that "Tom must have known."
We may think it is BS, but Goodell says this bears on game integrity. I think that proposition will be accepted.jsinger121 said:
I go back to bountygate when the suspensions Vilma were overturned. This isn't a gambling investigation which is far more serious. We are talking about a minor rules infraction that has been blown way the fuck out of proportion. Its embarrassing for the league that it has come to this. The NFLPA is pretty damn good at winning cases against the NFL in these types of cases.
They don't get their rings on Opening Night. They get their rings at a ceremony most likely at Kraft's home. On Opening Night, they do the banner unveiling.amlothi said:If Brady is suspended, does that mean he misses the ring presentation?