Jesus, stop quoting every fucking idiot with a microphone, keyboard and an uninformed opinion.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Ralphwiggum said:
The Wells report specifically states that the Pats not only refused the last meeting with McNally but also refused to even make McNally aware that the NFL wanted to meet again. Something doesn't add up. I have no reason to trust the NFL's version of events.
The issue of applying the Spygate precedent is really troubling. As others have pointed out, there is no consistency in this application and it is crazy to think how much power it gives Goodell to apply it arbitrarily. For example, the Bowlens and Elway both participated in the worst salary cap shenanigans the league has ever punished, but they did it twenty years ago... should this be factored into any future punishment if the Broncos have issues? So many teams have past issues, and the NFL has apparently decided that off season "scandal" is a great way to preserve fan interest in the empty part of the NFL , (they have knocked the NBA playoffs and early season MLB below the fold) so we are certain to see some other "scandal" in future off seasons and there is no real measure for how punishment from the ginger hammer should compound.
This is a also a very weird time for Kraft to go to war with the league office, which I believe he has to do. The three teams for two spots in LA league vote that is coming in November or next March is going to create some weird ownership alliances and Kraft is a powerful and influential owner. Some owners are going to stay out of this entirely, but it would not be surprising if someone like Kroenke allies with Kraft to knock out Goodell in hopes of putting more friendly (or controllable) leadership in Park avenue prior to the big LA vote.
This is a also a very weird time for Kraft to go to war with the league office, which I believe he has to do. The three teams for two spots in LA league vote that is coming in November or next March is going to create some weird ownership alliances and Kraft is a powerful and influential owner. Some owners are going to stay out of this entirely, but it would not be surprising if someone like Kroenke allies with Kraft to knock out Goodell in hopes of putting more friendly (or controllable) leadership in Park avenue prior to the big LA vote.
Gunfighter 09 said:
My thought as well. Kraft can win 3 votes in Kroenke, Spanos and Davis for ousting Goodell if he has their support for a possible relocation. A win win situation.
Bob Kraft has every right to go full nuclear. Goodell's actions have destroyed the Patriots brand outside of New England - if you live within the region you have no idea how bad it is. If the Krafts don't fight to restore the good name of their franchise, what's to stop the clowns on Park Ave. from overreacting to the next slight and stripping Super Bowl titles? Would anyone put that past them after this shitshow?
Exactly. In all probability, the Wells version of events in the report is accurate and Florio's source is not( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
Kessler is very good at this and has lots of resources to draw on. It would be overkill, but if his partner Dan Webb were to join the party, the hearing room would resemble the annual convention of the internal academy of proctology.lambeau said:
So, I have an interview for a role that's very customer facing. The final round of interviews is Friday, and one of the steps is to give a 15 minute presentation on anything of my choosing. Naturally, I'm picking this.
I've provided my outline to my presentation below. I have to keep it to 15 minutes, and this already may be a little long, but I'd love to hear any thoughts about what I should consider adding, removing, or reorganizing, etc. I'll post the presentation when it's complete if people are interested in seeing it:
1. Intro
a. What the presentation is
b. Why I picked it
i. Personally
ii. Timely
iii. Cultural trigger points
iv. My Patriots won the SuperBowl (image for humor)
2. Background
a. Background of people/teams involved, their relationship/history with Patriots
i. Patriots (history of scandal)
1. Tom Brady
2. Bill Belichick
3. Tom McNally
4. Jastremski
ii. Colts (& Ravens)
iii. Wes Anderson
iv. NFL/Team Executives
1. Roger Goodell
2. Mike Kensil
3. Troy Vincent
4. Ryan Grigson
v. Ted Wells
b. Background of event
i. AFC Championship game (January 18th)
1. History between Colts/Patriots
2. Colts notifying league of Patriots balls
3. League notifying officials
4. Balls are weighed/measured pregame
5. McNally stops in bathroom
6. Intercepted ball leads to phone calls
7. Halftime measurements/reinflation
8. Second half finished
3. Immediate aftermath
a. Quotes of immediate fallout (removal from SB, suspended from SB for BB, guilty until proven innocent, etc)
b. My Patriots win superbowl
c. No really:
d. My Patriots won the superbowl
4. League launches investigation (January 22nd)
a. Hires New York law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
5. January 22nd – May 6th; Investigation Period
a. Focus on players/media coming to aid of Patriots ("we all did it"- Jeff Blake, no big deal, etc etc)
6. Wells Report
a. Conclusion
i. “We conclude that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally and John Jastremski participated in a deliberate plan to circumvent the rules by releasing air from Patriots game balls after the examination of the footballs by NFL game officials at the AFC Championship Game…Based on the evidence, we also have concluded that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls…We do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Head Coach Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated.”
b. Key factors in their conclusion
i. Text messages
ii. Scientific evidence
iii. Lack of cooperation from Brady, McNally
iv. Bathroom Break
c. Holes in Report
i. Circumstantial
ii. Factually inaccurate
1. Scientifically
a. Exponent
i. Known to be in the bag for clients
ii. Second hand smoke doesn’t cause cancer
b. Scientific gas law facts
c. 2 gauges used, not taking Wes Anderson statement about gauge use
2. Lack of cooperation
7. Punishment
a. Comparisons
i. Panthers actually altering balls on camera
ii. Chargers using stickum
iii. Domestic abuse
b. Patriots Punishment outlined
i. No wrongdoing by Patriots – first round pick docked
ii. “more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of inappropriate activities.”
8. Assumptions we can make:
a. Mountain out of molehill
b. Tarnished legacy
c. Retribution by NFL
d. NFL got the report they wanted
e. NFL catered to general population with disdain for Patriots/Brady
9. Conclusion
a. My Patriots won the SuperBowl
I've provided my outline to my presentation below. I have to keep it to 15 minutes, and this already may be a little long, but I'd love to hear any thoughts about what I should consider adding, removing, or reorganizing, etc. I'll post the presentation when it's complete if people are interested in seeing it:
1. Intro
a. What the presentation is
b. Why I picked it
i. Personally
ii. Timely
iii. Cultural trigger points
iv. My Patriots won the SuperBowl (image for humor)
2. Background
a. Background of people/teams involved, their relationship/history with Patriots
i. Patriots (history of scandal)
1. Tom Brady
2. Bill Belichick
3. Tom McNally
4. Jastremski
ii. Colts (& Ravens)
iii. Wes Anderson
iv. NFL/Team Executives
1. Roger Goodell
2. Mike Kensil
3. Troy Vincent
4. Ryan Grigson
v. Ted Wells
b. Background of event
i. AFC Championship game (January 18th)
1. History between Colts/Patriots
2. Colts notifying league of Patriots balls
3. League notifying officials
4. Balls are weighed/measured pregame
5. McNally stops in bathroom
6. Intercepted ball leads to phone calls
7. Halftime measurements/reinflation
8. Second half finished
3. Immediate aftermath
a. Quotes of immediate fallout (removal from SB, suspended from SB for BB, guilty until proven innocent, etc)
b. My Patriots win superbowl
c. No really:
d. My Patriots won the superbowl
4. League launches investigation (January 22nd)
a. Hires New York law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
5. January 22nd – May 6th; Investigation Period
a. Focus on players/media coming to aid of Patriots ("we all did it"- Jeff Blake, no big deal, etc etc)
6. Wells Report
a. Conclusion
i. “We conclude that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally and John Jastremski participated in a deliberate plan to circumvent the rules by releasing air from Patriots game balls after the examination of the footballs by NFL game officials at the AFC Championship Game…Based on the evidence, we also have concluded that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls…We do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Head Coach Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated.”
b. Key factors in their conclusion
i. Text messages
ii. Scientific evidence
iii. Lack of cooperation from Brady, McNally
iv. Bathroom Break
c. Holes in Report
i. Circumstantial
ii. Factually inaccurate
1. Scientifically
a. Exponent
i. Known to be in the bag for clients
ii. Second hand smoke doesn’t cause cancer
b. Scientific gas law facts
c. 2 gauges used, not taking Wes Anderson statement about gauge use
2. Lack of cooperation
7. Punishment
a. Comparisons
i. Panthers actually altering balls on camera
ii. Chargers using stickum
iii. Domestic abuse
b. Patriots Punishment outlined
i. No wrongdoing by Patriots – first round pick docked
ii. “more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of inappropriate activities.”
8. Assumptions we can make:
a. Mountain out of molehill
b. Tarnished legacy
c. Retribution by NFL
d. NFL got the report they wanted
e. NFL catered to general population with disdain for Patriots/Brady
9. Conclusion
a. My Patriots won the SuperBowl
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
In the normal course of operations, CEOs/senior execs never usually micromanage like this. But when corporations are facing a crisis and their communications are under a microscope, this is how they act. I've seen it in companies with tens of millions in revenue and companies with billions in revenues.
I'm not sure this is a "corporate crisis" like the ones I've been involved with, but it's pretty close. And on the day after the Pats/Brady received their punishment, I would be shocked if Kraft wasn't in control of all communication platforms or at least informed of a change like this ahead of time so that he wouldn't be blindsided by it later.
Edit: The post above me is pretty good, KFP.
Fucking CHB is on talk radio here in Arizona calling Kraft a "buffoon" for "throwing down the gauntlet at the Super Bowl and demanding an apology from the league."
edit: now CHB is drawing comparisons between Brady's legacy with deflategate and Paul Hornung's legacy with betting on football.
edit: now CHB is drawing comparisons between Brady's legacy with deflategate and Paul Hornung's legacy with betting on football.
Mark Daniels @MarkDanielsPJ 20s20 seconds ago
I called Ted Wells' law firm and asked about a conference call. They wouldn't confirm or deny it's happening & told me to talk to the NFL.
I called Ted Wells' law firm and asked about a conference call. They wouldn't confirm or deny it's happening & told me to talk to the NFL.
Wes Anderson would certainly make it more interesting, but make sure you discuss Walt Anderson too.
Yeah, I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew for this thing.
I was planning on keeping each slide fairly short and highlighting brief overviews. 3-4 key points as to why the science was wrong, a picture of Tom Brady with the heading "Tom Brady Bio: Is Awesome", that kind of shit. The hiring manager already told me he really liked me, so I was thinking of throwing in some facts and keeping the process light as they really just want to see my ability to present/speak to clients.
I was planning on keeping each slide fairly short and highlighting brief overviews. 3-4 key points as to why the science was wrong, a picture of Tom Brady with the heading "Tom Brady Bio: Is Awesome", that kind of shit. The hiring manager already told me he really liked me, so I was thinking of throwing in some facts and keeping the process light as they really just want to see my ability to present/speak to clients.
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 13m13 minutes ago
On PFT Live, @RefereeJimD says that officials did not know that balls set to 12.5 PSI at kickoff would drop lower than that on a cold day.
On PFT Live, @RefereeJimD says that officials did not know that balls set to 12.5 PSI at kickoff would drop lower than that on a cold day.
There is one other issue that I think has not been fully considered in all of these discussions. That is, who is the target of the punishment? One might assume some involvement by Brady at some level, but less so by Belichick and Kraft. Yet, who else is significantly impacted by these punishments? THE FANS. We all had no role in football deflation. We are the ones, however, whose money is being spent in multiple ways to support the Patriots...and also to support the league. We are the customers. And that cannot be forgotten. And we did NOTHING here to deserve punishment. But the impact of the punishment is that we suffer because our team's ability to be competitive is significantly impacted. And over something that pretty much all admit was an issue that did NOT impact competitiveness in the first place. So this is not about unfair advantage.
Sure, punish some for allowing the implication of rules bending. Possibly for being a bit less opened with the investigators. The pro's and con's of these issue have been argued ad nauseum already. There are punishments that could have been levied that impacted the people who they felt committed some (bogus) infraction (such as fines). But what they did is punish a lot of people who were very much NOT involved in this whole thing. People who are proud of our team. People who have spent our own money filling the stadium and on other things that have made the Patriot's a financial success...a success which in turn has allowed them, with clever management (Belichick et al) to build a successful team. We are the ones getting the snide e-mails from friends around the country laughing at us for supporting cheaters. The NFL is sticking it to the very people who were uninvolved in the controversy, and who are key in the success of the league. And people around the country need to understand that with this commissioner, they could be next.
With this logic in mind, lets advise ourselves along with advising Bob Kraft. We are the customers, and if we are not happy with the product being sold, do not buy it. Spend like crazy on the Patriots. Support them as much we can. All the suggestions made so far about noise at the games, banners, etc. But do not spend on the NFL. No NFL merchandise. No TV packages. Buy no products that are advertised on NFL broadcasts that do not involve the Patriots. Nothing that helps the NFL beyond the specific benefit to the Patriots. Raise banners at games talking about the boycott. And point out to friends around the country who are happy that the Patriots got heavily penalized that, yes, maybe the team could have handled the aftermath better and fessed up early to stop this shit storm. But the punishment is outrageous (in the context of wrist slapping of wife beaters and child molesters), and this is a national concern, not just New England. Until the NFL can make the punishment fit the crime, we cannot support the NFL.
I am not foolish enough to think that all of New England is going to rise up en mass to boycott the NFL and expect it to have much of an impact. But if we are talking about things that may further erode the image of Goodell, along with the many other suggestions in this thread, it is recognizing that the fans are pissed at the NFL. This time the Patriots, but next time another franchise could be the target of brand-destroying capriciousness. Boycott, even if not that financially impactful, might be one more arrow in the quiver that Bob Kraft might use behind the scenes to undermine this sorry excuse of a commissioner with other owners.
Sure, punish some for allowing the implication of rules bending. Possibly for being a bit less opened with the investigators. The pro's and con's of these issue have been argued ad nauseum already. There are punishments that could have been levied that impacted the people who they felt committed some (bogus) infraction (such as fines). But what they did is punish a lot of people who were very much NOT involved in this whole thing. People who are proud of our team. People who have spent our own money filling the stadium and on other things that have made the Patriot's a financial success...a success which in turn has allowed them, with clever management (Belichick et al) to build a successful team. We are the ones getting the snide e-mails from friends around the country laughing at us for supporting cheaters. The NFL is sticking it to the very people who were uninvolved in the controversy, and who are key in the success of the league. And people around the country need to understand that with this commissioner, they could be next.
With this logic in mind, lets advise ourselves along with advising Bob Kraft. We are the customers, and if we are not happy with the product being sold, do not buy it. Spend like crazy on the Patriots. Support them as much we can. All the suggestions made so far about noise at the games, banners, etc. But do not spend on the NFL. No NFL merchandise. No TV packages. Buy no products that are advertised on NFL broadcasts that do not involve the Patriots. Nothing that helps the NFL beyond the specific benefit to the Patriots. Raise banners at games talking about the boycott. And point out to friends around the country who are happy that the Patriots got heavily penalized that, yes, maybe the team could have handled the aftermath better and fessed up early to stop this shit storm. But the punishment is outrageous (in the context of wrist slapping of wife beaters and child molesters), and this is a national concern, not just New England. Until the NFL can make the punishment fit the crime, we cannot support the NFL.
I am not foolish enough to think that all of New England is going to rise up en mass to boycott the NFL and expect it to have much of an impact. But if we are talking about things that may further erode the image of Goodell, along with the many other suggestions in this thread, it is recognizing that the fans are pissed at the NFL. This time the Patriots, but next time another franchise could be the target of brand-destroying capriciousness. Boycott, even if not that financially impactful, might be one more arrow in the quiver that Bob Kraft might use behind the scenes to undermine this sorry excuse of a commissioner with other owners.
Was he distracted by the Kinks song in the background and all the eccentric characters in his life?Kenny F'ing Powers said:
The CHB never misses an opportunity to mock the Krafts. Every third column this year had a reference to them in their "high chairs" at games, as if that had any relevance or would be funny more than once, if at all.
I don't know what it is, but it seems pretty clear to me that there's something personal there.
Calling out the NFL might have been unwise. It also might have been a brilliant way to galvanize his team. But Kraft is an accomplished businessman and NFL owner, and is one of the most influential owners in the game. Calling him a buffoon makes Dan, well, a buffoon.
I don't know what it is, but it seems pretty clear to me that there's something personal there.
Calling out the NFL might have been unwise. It also might have been a brilliant way to galvanize his team. But Kraft is an accomplished businessman and NFL owner, and is one of the most influential owners in the game. Calling him a buffoon makes Dan, well, a buffoon.
Shannon Sharpe believes he should have thrown a temper tantrum. Russo thinks he was a smug prick. They fall in line with many average fans.bluefenderstrat said:
Both ignore the source of the accusations. He knew who made the claims and why they did it. His laughing, smug response had as much to do with the accusers as it did the accusation.
ivanvamp said:
If they Pat (and Brady's lawyer) are doing their jobs at all somebody's already reviewed Brady's digital communications and the Pats/Bob Kraft/the Pat's lawyers/Brady's lawyers/Brady's Agent/BB all roughly know what's in them.
This whole thing sucks. As much as I’d love to be able to quit following this league and support something else, I know that there is absolutely no way I’m not glued to the Pats this year. So with the current reality, how does the suspension/loss of picks affect the team on the field?
What does this mean for roster construction and the cap? If Brady’s suspension is held up, we obviously need another QB. Unless I’m wrong (which is often…), if we go the safe route and add a veteran, won’t their salary be guaranteed for the year if they make it to week one? It’d be risky, but maybe they pick up an undrafted QB as Garoppolo’s back-up to save on cap space instead. Is there any silver lining to this at all? Does Brady’s salary for the four games get added back to our cap? Can we use that to structure a deal to bring in Peterson (or any potential FA), if he’s cut? Create space for a big trade like the mythical Haden one? What does this all mean to the team?
This seems like a huge wrench in Belichick’s plans for the season, but maybe it’s just as straight-forward as adding a QB and saying “On to Pittsburg”?
What does this mean for roster construction and the cap? If Brady’s suspension is held up, we obviously need another QB. Unless I’m wrong (which is often…), if we go the safe route and add a veteran, won’t their salary be guaranteed for the year if they make it to week one? It’d be risky, but maybe they pick up an undrafted QB as Garoppolo’s back-up to save on cap space instead. Is there any silver lining to this at all? Does Brady’s salary for the four games get added back to our cap? Can we use that to structure a deal to bring in Peterson (or any potential FA), if he’s cut? Create space for a big trade like the mythical Haden one? What does this all mean to the team?
This seems like a huge wrench in Belichick’s plans for the season, but maybe it’s just as straight-forward as adding a QB and saying “On to Pittsburg”?
If Wells is making himself available, that's a reflection of weakness. Who controls the narrative today is irrelevant. The time is going to be measured from here on this in weeks and months, not days. You're not spinning your way out of an appeal, the best efforts of Ian O'Connor notwithstanding.
The patient is wounded, not dead. There is no downside from here from the Pats' standpoint, absent some really bad information not disclosed, and I'm sure the Pats and TB would be smart enough to fold tents and get the best deal the can if that's the case.
Sollozzo: "What guarantees could I give you, Mike? I'm the hunted one. I've missed my chance. You think too much of me, kid. I am not that clever. All I want is a truce."
Good luck with that, Virgil.
The patient is wounded, not dead. There is no downside from here from the Pats' standpoint, absent some really bad information not disclosed, and I'm sure the Pats and TB would be smart enough to fold tents and get the best deal the can if that's the case.
Sollozzo: "What guarantees could I give you, Mike? I'm the hunted one. I've missed my chance. You think too much of me, kid. I am not that clever. All I want is a truce."
Good luck with that, Virgil.
Allow me to give an alternate hypothesis.dylanmarsh said:
Kraft knew exactly what he was doing. He threw down that gauntlet and knew he'd get one of 2 things--a light punishment that he could accept or this. The relationship with Goodell isn't broken now. It was broken in the run up to the Super Bowl, and Kraft throwing down the gauntlet was him baiting Goodell into going overboard.
Now his long game comes into view. Replacing Goodell.
TheoShmeo said:
I still maintain that the only thing the Pats did wrong was turning this into a dick contest with the league. Goodell would never permit one team to question his leadership or credibility. Kraft failed at the politics of the situation and it cost his team dearly.
cromulence said:
The Patriots did do something wrong, AND it was an NFL witch hunt.
When the story first broke back in January, Kraft had to fear the worst, if not fully expect it. Owners/members of other NFL owners are always sniping at the Patriots and Goodell, having a terrible year where he was perceived as weak and ineffective, was looking for any opportunity to look strong and in-charge.
Just a few days after the story broke, Kraft made the statement that ended with, "We will be totally exonerated and I expect a full apology." Belichick told of his crash course in ball inflation science and practice, and then reassured that there was nothing going on that broke the rules. Brady gave his tortured "What Me worry," presser and also assured that there was nothing done wrong.
Just a few days after that, the story of McNally being videotaped and going to the bathroom broke. At that point, we knew that a) The Patriots had done something wrong, and that b) There wasn't going to be any complete exoneration or full apology. It does not mean that Bob/Bill/Tom lied, but that, at least, their statements were not made with full knowledge of the situation. This understandable since they were preparing for the Super Bowl, but at that point, when they knew they had made inaccurate/incomplete statements to the press, they should have been in full damage control.
What that damage-control process was is not clear to me. They had to know, at that point, that there was a real risk that they could be rail-roaded. Was Kraft duped by Wells and Goodell? Possible, but I think Kraft is smart and very capable. Did they do their own internal investigation, discover something incriminating and decide to stonewall? That's speculation for Troll talk radio. But what did they do, after it became aware to them that McNally had taken the balls into the bathroom with him. Even if nothing was proven that he deflated the balls, that was still a violation that was going to incur some penalty. And that given the intent and opportunity, the NFL was going to have all sorts of opportunity to go on a witch hunt.
Sorry if all this has been stated before in one of the thousands of posts on the subject. But the issue to me is what strategy did the Patriots follow once they knew they were guilty of something and how effective was it?
If that’s the case, he should post a ‘presentation contains images that might be disturbing to viewers’ statement in the second PowerPoint slide.Kenny F'ing Powers said:
soxhop411 said:
I had never thought about that either until all this came up. Then I thought about the fact that my tires deflate in the winter and cold basketballs don't bounce as high and it all made sense.
If they understood the ideal gas law and took two seconds to think about this, when they took measurements in the locker room they probably would have said, yeah, they're under, but we expected that because of the cold.
RedOctober3829 said:
I wouldn't have cared if it was his father saying this, but why would anyone care what a QB that couldn't get it done, like Chris Simms, thinks about anything?
I don't care what he said and don't take it seriously. I just needed the comedic relief.soxin6 said:
I guess I don't understand what evidence supports the idea of Kraft would be stonewalling if he thought they were guilty of something? Given his past actions and his actions here, isn't the likely inference that to this day Kraft believes they aren't guilty of something?