#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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Brady's wife alone made $47 million last year. Even if he's paying out of pocket I think he'll be okay.
Yes, Kessler is the regular go-to outside counsel for NFLPA--presumably TB pays them dues for services like this.
BigSoxFan said:
BigSoxFan said:
Right. Stern would come out in that nasal New York wise-assish voice and say "nothing to see here," or "those charges are ridiculous" or "have been dealt with" and "that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned," and: a) it *would* be the end of it (i.e., no leaks or further comments); and b) he was taken seriously, even if he was disliked.
Stern's goal was to run a major professional sports league. He did so without overriding concern as to what people thought of him. Goodell's goal seems much more personal -- he now (after being branded the opposite) -- just wants to have an image as a tough guy, as a stand-alone thing, even if it's unrelated (or counter to) the whole "running the league" thing. Or as he would say it, "I want to occupy the 'tough guy space.'"
Goodell has Bowie Kuhn's sense of vanity.
My bad. I forgot that a union like the NFLPA would almost certainly be picking up the tab.dcmissle said:
What kills me is that, at the end of the day, no matter what happens in this case, Roger Goodell has literally made hundreds of millions of dollars as NFL commissioner. Even if he is fired, taken down a peg or 10, he is awash in cash. Nothing negative becomes of him, other than a shit legacy, which I think is pretty much guaranteed. Oh well.
DegenerateSoxFan said:
In addition to the union paying at least some of the fees, Giselle's net worth is estimated at $320 million, on top of Brady's (which one imagines is somewhere in the $50-$100 mil range) http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/models/gisele-bundchen-net-worth/
I would imagine that this is the single least budget-constrained player in the entire NFL.
joe dokes said:
Stern would have made one of his tough guy statements about dragging some combination of Kraft/BB/Brady into his office for a tongue lashing, fined the team $25,000, and clamped down on any leaks. We Pats fans would have whined and moaned about it for a couple days, then everyone would have forgotten about it.
joe dokes said:
I think its actually a mixture of things:
-Personal vanity and wanting to be a tough guy
-Incompetence and poor judgement
-Having more precarious support than many other commissioners and trying to deal with that.
I wouldn't downplay the importance of #2 and #3. In fact, I think most of the deflategate fiasco is more readily explained by those factors (an incompetent handling of the initial complaints and then the first 72 hours of the "scandal", all within a context in which Goodell is scared shitless that a critical mass of owners is developing that favors his removal) than by a desire to look tough.
riboflav said:
I wouldn't rule out Goodell losing it all investing in some half-brained start up concept or a stock market swindle either. I have seen nothing to suggest that he is anywhere near as smart as his ego seems to believe he is.
I don't think doing all the extra science is incompatible with enhancing PW's reputation. What's more impressive? 1) a 120-page document where they publish the cell phone stuff and PSI data but note that it is mathematically inconclusive due to uncertainty about the pre-game PSI, the PSI of the control group (Indy balls), the gauge used pre-game, and the time that balls were measured at halftime, or 2) the 240-page document with tons of experiments and data resting on a SSS foundation? I think 2) both makes the firm look impressive and results in more billable hours, but is not more accurate than 1).Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I guess it depends on what you mean by "weaker." It looks flimsier without the Exponent data, but it is accurate to say the data picture is flimsy. There's no doubt that the document is more impressive for having the Exponent stuff, but I'm not sure that stuff makes its conclusions more accurate or valid.dcmissle said:
Super Nomario said:
There's no doubt that they hired Exponent to make the document look more impressive (and probably because that particular firm has a reputation for getting the conclusions that their clients want to see). I just don't see much reason to believe that billable hours played into that equation. Hiring consultants/experts to do all the science stuff was a no brainer. Its almost impossible to imagine them doing anything else.
And thinking that by swinging his penis around (#1) he'll overcome #3. He still doesn't seem to understand that he's been manipulated into burning his bridges with the one guy that's continuously pulled his fat out of the fire. There's pretty much zero chance that Kraft ever trusts Goodell again. And when the Ginger Knish butchers the next CBA negotiations (as he unquestionably will) I suspect that Kraft will let him go down in flames.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Kraft didn't even stand up for himself when they got docked a first for Spygate, which was arguably even a more minor technical infraction than the ball deflation nonsense.Van Everyman said:
Say what you want about spygate, but the hubris shown by BB after receiving the memo from the league to no longer shoot from those places was worthy of punishment. He deliberately disregarded an edict of a new commissioner, and while BB couldn't have known that Goodell was a think-skinned ninny, a punishment was due. A first round pick and half a million dollars? No f'ing way.Super Nomario said:
We hear quite a bit about how Goodell is actually great at his job because he helps the owners make their billions. I just wonder what he actually does well that makes the bilionaire's club feel that he's worth $44 million per. Is something to do with the television contracts? Just what does he actually do that makes him so valuable to the owners? Can one of the numerous people here who are more knowledgable than me explain this?
No Exponent and you'd be hearing, "the billion dollar NFL could not even find an expert ... and that's extraordinary because we all have our ho's we turn to in a moment of dire need."Super Nomario said:
It's commonly believed that experts cancel each other out, and I believe that is generally true after interviewing jurors in cases where one expert wiped the floor with the other. But that presumes each side has an expert. Well Ted & Roger got one, for good reason.
This.DegenerateSoxFan said:
There have been multiple reports that the owners "Live Rog because he makes them money!" or "he has made them billions!"
This seems to me to be ignoring the fact that a half deaf wilder beast could commission the NFL and make money.
Its the OTHER things you bring to the desk that should make a person valuable or not as Commissioner. And RG has shown (to me at least) that he brings nothing else to the title.
I am surprised and a bit concerned if the penalties in fact came as a shock to the NEPs and Robert Kraft. The penalties were fairly predictable, so I hope this report is wrong. If it's right, it suggests a level of naïveté that worries me.
What's the next shock -- when Goodell says I am going to be the reviewing judge on these penalties? Though perhaps unlikely, you had better be prepared for it.
What's the next shock -- when Goodell says I am going to be the reviewing judge on these penalties? Though perhaps unlikely, you had better be prepared for it.
Bleedred said:
Haha, no. The report lists the seven lawyers who worked on the matter. I am working on a serious of related cases worth billions and billions of dollars, and we are not close to having 20, nevermind 40 lawyers on the team.
dcmissle said:
Dude, this is at least the third time you've done this victory lap. You predicted $2 million. We got it.
So is Goodell dumb enough to be manipulated by someone like Irsay or is there a quieter faction in the ownership whispering in his ear? I can imagine there are some owners that have a deep resentment of Kraft for not holding the hardline during the work stoppage as well as his high national profile. Jealousy is a powerful motivator, especially for guys that are used to being at the top of the heap. Johnson and Irsay are the obvious candidates, but there has to be someone else looking to knock RK down a few pegs. Someone has to be egging Goodell on, there is no benefit to him otherwise. I have to wonder if this will play out more as a battle for control of the NFL than just Goodell's job.nighthob said:
There will be a nice best seller on this if someone can get inside the walls.
edit: clarification
DegenerateSoxFan said:
Mainly, he seems to have just negotiated a good deal in which he gets a salary of about $3M but has huge bonuses and incentives tied (one assumes) to league revenue targets, which the NFL has smashed under his tenure. The owners are probably not too upset to pay the money, given that it costs each of them only about $1M extra and the amount they've been raking in, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that they believe that its a good contract from their perspective.
The thing to remember about Goodell and his relationship vis-a-vis the owners is that the NFL has only had three commissioners in its history and never has a commissioner been removed. Goodell hasn't necessarily kept his job because he's seen as particularly competent - the strong bias in the league is simply to maintain the status quo.
My inderstanding is that he was a penny pincher in labor negotiations and that earned ownersoney. Beyondvthat acdonley could have done a better job.DegenerateSoxFan said:
To a large extent, the excessive reaction here was driven by a remarkably widespread ignorance of the general scientific principle governing the situation - pressure inside the ball rising and falling with temperature. Until BB's PC, and a few days after, the NFL people and most of the media remained blissfully ignorant of a physics principle that at least used to be taught in high school science classes. Recall how BB'S assertions (and a few concurring mainstream physicists'opinions) were treated on ESPN et al. -- as if they were whacko Gyro Gearloose mad-scientist theories. (In some ways the Exponent report pays great tribute to the Ideal Gas Law -- look at all the hoops the Exponent authors made themselves jump through to try to avoid the overwhelming applicability of the principle.)Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Ignorant as the NFL was in the early days, everyone in that group (e.g. Blandino, Kensil, all the way up to Goodell) were committed to the halftime pressure readings being indisputable proof of the Patriots' guilt. They behaved from halftime forward knowing the Colts would hammer them publicly if they did nothing.
Also agree with the point that, given all the time and money invested, Wells et al. felt pushed to deliver a definite outcome, rather than an honest "there is too much uncertainty to draw any reliable conclusions" report.
DegenerateSoxFan said:
I have absolutely no specific knowledge about this, but I've got an idea.
Goodell has shown time and again that he has gigantic brass balls and conviction, which combined with a product that sells itself makes him incredibly good at making the league money. My theory is that he's willing to ask for things in negotiations that most reasonable people wouldn't have the balls to request and because his product is so good he keeps getting buyers willing to agree to them. He's actually the perfect negotiator for the league right now, one who does not sell the league short one bit.
During the last labor dispute it was a big deal that the league would be paid by their TV partners whether games were played or not. It seemed ridiculous to everyone outside of the NFL but there it was, a clause that the NFL requested and somehow got granted. And it was huge for them as they were abl to play chicken with a union that did have a lot of money to lose. Leading up to last year's superbowl we heard how the NFL tried to get halftime acts to effectively pay (via a percentage of tour profits) to do the halftime show, and while he lost that one and was ridiculed for it it serves as the perfect example of what Goodell brings to the table. Seriously, who has the balls to request Katie Perry pay them to perform?
When it comes to controversies, unfortunately, the same balls and conviction aren't nearly as well-suited to the job. But they're part of the package that overall has made the NFL a lot of money.
I must have overestimated based on my experience in a transactional practice. My most recent huge transaction, I had close to 30 lawyers working on it (but 20 of them were doing diligence on 100s of properties and close to one thousand leases).WayBackVazquez said:
tedseye said:
Good post. Kensil's words to Schoenfeld at halftime (worded to the effect of "the balls are below 12.5, you're screwed") are really the smoking gun in terms of scientific ignorance. They had no clue.
Make McNally, JJ, and TB swear they're being entirely truthful with you. Defend as necessary. Argue that the punishment to the organization doesn't fit the alleged crime. While it is fair to consider the organization responsible for the actions of its employees since it seems likely a rule was violated, this responsibility only goes so far. The fine and docking of draft picks seems too far for something that has not, at most, been found to possibly go no farther than two employees and one roster player. I thought the fine for having balls out of spec was $25K. Who multiplied by 40?
drleather2001 said:
Have you heard about Boies Schiller's billing and bonus systems? They're fascinating. You see, they use this lodestar....
Really? I think everybody could predict a suspension for Brady, but draft picks and team fine were pretty shocking, for me at least.dcmissle said:
Because the Brady penalties rest on a shaky foundation and could well be tossed, I figured they would hit the team hard. Team penalties are going to be more difficult to overturn. They had to come away with something, especially after spending what they did.CantKeepmedown said:
Kraft tried to avoid this by not initially rushing to Tom's defense and by suggesting he would take the medicine. The dynamic is such that he couldn't.
I think that during the last labor negotiations there was more anger with Goodell for his handling of things than anyone else. I would guess that the anti-Goodell faction has been using this as a means of cutting off his lines of support. I mean during the work stoppage and again during the Rice fiasco there was a move to oust Goodell and Kraft exercised his influence to keep Goodell on the job. The next time he won't have Kraft to call, and I suspect that his new found "friends" will assure him when he calls that they'll do everything in their power to help and then crack up laughing when they hang up the phone.RIFan said:
$400 an hour for non-lawyers? I'm sorry, I don't care if it's the top echelon of biglaw, that's obscene. Yeah, I'm a "small law" guy for whose clients, $250 an hour for an attorney can be big deal, but that rate for non-lawyers, I'm assuming paralegals, that's a collossal ripoff.
I agree that Goodell got a great result in the last negotiation. Having a principal that is willing to lock out its employees and a union that is not willing to endure a long work stoppage is an excellent recipe for success. The NFLPA is going to have to be willing to sacrifice game checks if they ever want to get the relationship equalized.