#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Doctor G]

 
 
http://abc7chicago.com/sports/roger-goodell-to-hear-tom-bradys-appeal-of-deflategate-suspension/723590/
 
"A source told ESPN's Ed Werder on Friday that Goodell was likely to interview Patriots equipment assistant John Jastremski and officials locker room attendant Jim McNally as witnesses and that the commissioner wanted to hear Brady's side of the story."
 
This is possibly why JJ and JM are suspended, not fired. The NFL may still ask the Patriots to produce them for this appeal. 

They could still 
 

JJ and JM were suspended for obvious reasons.  Not sure why people don't understand this.  Both were also sanctioned by the NFL as part of the discipline handed down; it's another point that media misses all the time. 
 
As to the appeal, given that they are still technically employees of the Patriots, Goodell certainly has the authority to request an interview with either as part of the Brady appeal hearing.  The Patriots could refuse to make them available.  If the Pats do make them available, and they refuse, their suspensions will certainly continue.  

I would expect that the patriots would make any appearance by them conditional on the Patriots having a  team representative present to  make sure they were given an  objective questioning. And to further ensure that they weren't  big-timed and bullied into cooperation by the commissioner and whoever he has in the room to assist him.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Who was the lawyer that wanted to speak on this in the first place and was unaware of the Peterson case?
 
 

 
Seriously.  When I read that my first thought was, a lawyer was asked to comment on this case and she didn't think to educate herself on other recent, high-profile NFL disciplinary cases first?

 

[nighthob]

Tinfoil hat time. Is it possible that the Patriots requested the balls at 12.5 but that the officials set them to a higher reading anyways and that this in turn emboldened McNally to deflate them?

So in effect the NFL knows the Patriots deflated the balls but is being dishonest about the pregame readings and the Patriots know that the NFL is lying even though the Patriots broke the rules?

Or, far more likely, Walt Anderson was right about which gauge he used, and he adjusted the Patriots balls to 12.5psi using the logo gauge, setting off this entire comedy of errors.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

The Florio piece is interesting to me.  There's a bit of lawyer inside baseball going on here, that I probably didn't appreciate for a while.  During the investigation, the whole thing was handled by lawyers.  Obviously, Wells is a lawyer.  But there was a heavy lawyer presence on the Patriots' side, and from the e-mails, Pash was heavily involved in negotiating various aspects of how the details would be handled.  
 
The result is that a lot of what apparently happened during the four month investigation was handled by lawyer rules and by lawyer customs.  Florio is absolutely right about the no-two-bites principle.  You get one chance at a witness, unless the other side deliberately withholds evidence so you don't get a fair chance.  And even then, it's a high burden.  If an opposing lawyer called up and said, "hey, I know we just deposed your guy, but I found a few e-mails I didn't notice before and I'd like another hour or two," he'd be laughed at, and if he filed a motion, he'd be laughed out of court.  Similarly, asking for personal computing devices is a big deal.  If you're the plaintiff -- that is, you're the one who came to court and you're trying to get money or something else -- there burden on having to turn over your personal computer or your devices is pretty low.  You're the one who started the whole thing.  If you're claiming an injury is keeping your from doing things such that you're entitled to a $1 million, the expectation is that the other side can look into your computer to find records that show you bought standing room only general admission tickets for a 3 hour U2 concert.  But if you're the defendant, there's a much higher burden.  Courts and lawyers are rightly suspicious of fishing expeditions, and given all the shit we have on our phones, a substantial showing of need is required.  The common response when faced with a request like that is, "pound sand, unless you can prove to me you're acting in good faith and can show me things you have that make it significantly probative."
 
The problem here is that Wells pulled a bit of a double cross.  From the e-mails that the Patriots' side has produced, this thing proceeded as thought we were playing by lawyer rules, but then Wells used the fact that the Patriots played by those rules as evidence of noncooperation.  Which, of course, the public eats up.  Florio's legal background is actually pretty helpful here, because I think he sees the inherent unfairness of it.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

 
Yes. that almost made me drive off the road. The Patriots kept this in the news?
 
Not one mention that I heard about the Mortensen tweet that blew this all up. Completely disingenuous.
 
By the way, after their claim that they didn't keep this in the news, I turned the radio off. Fifteen minutes later I turned it back on and the first word I heard was "Patriots".
 

 

And this -- THIS -- is why the NFL is fine with all of this.  They've got a big news story still and they haven't played a down in 3.5 months.

 

[tims4wins]

Just for the record, excluding the advising Kraft / Brady threads, we are at a combined 445 pages, 22,000+ replies, and nearly 2.15 million page views.

 

[AB in DC]

My read of the Peter King column:
 
- Kraft will be raising this in the owners' meetings, at least in some form; and
- Kraft will be focusing on the unfairness of the process
 
This seems like the right approach.  Kraft is basically admitting that he'd be fine with a "fair and balanced" investigation, but that this wasn't it.  And he's making it very clear that he's unhappy.  
 
I think this opens the door for one of the owners to propose some kind of compromise to keep Kraft from going Al Davis on the NFL.  There are lots of possible outcomes here that would be "fair" but wouldn't completely let the Patriots off the hook -- basically allowing everyone to step back and let a more unbiased (and quiet) process take shape.

 

[DJnVa]

Didn't the Brady appeal letter say if Goodell didn't recuse himself they'd take another step? Is that happening?

 

[Myt1]

Again, they would do it strictly for themselves.  Their lives have been significantly impacted.  Some people around town are wondering whether these idiots have caused the local star QB to be suspended and his reputation tarnished.  

Why do they have any reason to believe that the process will suddenly be reasonable? "Oh, THIS time, the Kangaroos will surely stay out of the court."

Definition of insanity and all that.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

 Similarly, asking for personal computing devices is a big deal.  If you're the plaintiff -- that is, you're the one who came to court and you're trying to get money or something else -- there burden on having to turn over your personal computer or your devices is pretty low.  You're the one who started the whole thing.  If you're claiming an injury is keeping your from doing things such that you're entitled to a $1 million, the expectation is that the other side can look into your computer to find records that show you bought standing room only general admission tickets for a 3 hour U2 concert.  But if you're the defendant, there's a much higher burden.  Courts and lawyers are rightly suspicious of fishing expeditions, and given all the shit we have on our phones, a substantial showing of need is required.  The common response when faced with a request like that is, "pound sand, unless you can prove to me you're acting in good faith and can show me things you have that make it significantly probative."
 

I'm not sure it's worth digressing too much into this, but my experience (not just locally, but throughout the country) contradicts this. The default for judges IME is to say, "you can have it all," unless you can make a strong showing that what is being sought is unlikely to lead to the discovery of anything relevant or admissible. And I certainly disagree that defendants typically get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to discovery.

Unless you meant to speak specifically about personal injury cases, or specifically about turning over the actual cell phone or computer, and not just relevant material from those devices (which by all accounts was not what was sought from Brady).

EDIT: Which is to say, if this were litigation, and Wells had propounded a request for all communications concerning the air pressure of footballs whether they be emails, texts, or phone messages, he almost certainly would have been entitled to them.

 

[AB in DC]

Goodell wants to talk with McNally and Jastremski.. Any reason to think they would agree to that? Aren't their NFL careers over?

 
What's interesting is that the NFLPA letter doesn't really address the question of whether JM and JJ did anything -- it was almost all procedural issues, like whether Vincent had the authority to dictate punishment, whether being "generally aware" of deflation is actually a punishable offense, and whether the Wells report had met the "more probable than not" standard with regard to Brady's own actions.

 

[Koufax]

The NFLPA represents players, not personnel.  Whether JM or JJ did anything wrong is a matter of indifference to them.  The player has not been tied an any misconduct, whether it occurred or not.  That's their correct stance on this.

 

[ivanvamp]

Just read this elsewhere, worth a reminder that Wells' investigation never, ever was "independent" from the NFL.  Read this press release from the NFL on Jan 23.
 
 
NFL investigation of balls in AFC title game led by Pash, Wells

• NFL.com
• Published: Jan. 23, 2015 at 01:56 p.m.
• Updated: Jan. 24, 2015 at 09:02 p.m

"The NFL issued a statement Friday to provide an update on the league's investigation if the Patriotsintentionally deflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game against the Colts.

The league announced that the investigation is being led by NFL executive vice president Jeff Pash and Ted Wells, an attorney from the Paul Weiss law firm. Wells was tapped to conduct the league's investigation concerning allegations of workplace misconduct with the Miami Dolphins in November 2013."

"The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective.

"The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise."
 
 
 
That press release from the NFL makes it clear that Pash and Wells were working together.  How can Wells be independent if he's working with the NFL's Executive Vice President?

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Ah, thanks.
 
Interesting that he wanted to hear their side of the story after the original punishment was levied. Yee said the league never contacted him once after the release of the Wells Report.

 
Not sure how much stock I take in that report, but at least it reads as if Goodell is ready for a "compromise" and stop the bleeding. 
 
I agree with other posters that Brady should ask for ZERO suspensions and go full metal if Goodell offers anything less. As competitive as Brady is, can't imagine him agreeing with a technical draw. 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

That press release from the NFL makes it clear that Pash and Wells were working together.  How can Wells be independent if he's working with the NFL's Executive Vice President?

 
I can only assume that Wells is working (and speaking) under a different definition of "independent", especially the way he conducted his conference call. 

 

[Stitch01]

Throwing out the Brady suspension entirely is an option for Roger.  He'll get blasted in some quarters, but could still fall back on the draft pick penalties and it really cuts the legs out from Kraft to take this any further.
 
IMO, we haven't seen anything from ROG indicating he is capable of heading in this direction.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Unless you meant to speak specifically about personal injury cases, or specifically about turning over the actual cell phone or computer, and not just relevant material from those devices (which by all accounts was not what was sought from Brady).

EDIT: Which is to say, if this were litigation, and Wells had propounded a request for all communications concerning the air pressure of footballs whether they be emails, texts, or phone messages, he almost certainly would have been entitled to them.

 
Right, there is nothing magic about the fact that a relevant document appears on a cell phone that makes it resistant from discovery or mandatory disclosure rules.  You produce or log everything relevant.  But, in most cases, the defendant's computers and phones are treated just like the defendant's hard files.  His or her lawyers get to go in and do the production and the privilege log.  And other than preserving them during the litigation, that's your obligation -- it's no different from paper files really.  You look through them and make your production but you don't turn over the entire file.  On the other side, you can ask some targeted questions to try to figure out how data was managed and deleted and maybe try to build a case by showing other stuff that was produced by other parties that the data is not complete.  It's a considerable cat and mouse game.  Maybe you can find discovery from other sources that suggests the other side has hidden documents or that it's claim that it has a 14-day rolling delete feature on e-mail isn't true, and then you can hammer the other side either with spoliation arguments or other sanctions.  
 
Sometimes, though, a party wants more.  At the far end of the spectrum, they want their computer consultant to get in there and root around, find whatever they can, or check metadata and deleted stuff.  They want an image of the entire phone, for example.  On the other end, they want an independent neutral to do some testing without revealing content to either side about whether the production has been complete or whether there is hidden data that can be recovered.  You put a protective order in place and some rules for inadvertent disclosure in case your consultant comes up with privileged stuff.  These kinds of orders and protocols are relatively easy to get against plaintiffs.  They are also obviously needed in certain kinds of cases -- copyright cases or other intellectual property cases where the issue is whether source code or other protected Works were copied.  But in the run of the mill civil case, it's usually pretty easy to fight this stuff off as a defendant or at least substantially limit what the other side can do.  Maybe it's regional.  

 

[Koufax]

I doubt that Kraft will break out a peace pipe unless the first round draft pick is restored.  A 2017 4th rounder and $1M could be kind of sort of justified on a "failure to supervise" theory.  Even though that's bullshit, I don't think that Kraft would fall on his sword over it.  But the NFL is unlikely to settle with the Pats unless Brady comes into the deal, and Brady is unlikely to settle on anything.  He's got legal recourse, a reputation to uphold and a great case.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Throwing out the Brady suspension entirely is an option for Roger.  He'll get blasted in some quarters, but could still fall back on the draft pick penalties and it really cuts the legs out from Kraft to take this any further.
 
IMO, we haven't seen anything from ROG indicating he is capable of heading in this direction.

 
Given the mood Kraft is in, I'm hoping he goes nuclear and get the 1st & 4th pick losses offset.
 
As much as Brady's suspension would impact the upcoming season, it's the 1st & 4th that really, really has me irked to this day. And let's not discount the 4th -- it is a Bryan Stork (starter), James White (rotational RB), or Cam Fleming (depth OL). 

 

[Stitch01]

Lots of luck to him, but I think his chances of success in reducing those penalties are close to nil

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Suspect the Goodell request to speak to JJ/JM is designed to create a choice of 'another bite at the apple' for NFL or 'another example of non-compliance' for Pats (fictional though that may be).

 

[dcmissle]

Lots of luck to him, but I think his chances of success in reducing those penalties are close to nil

Kraft's implied threat to sue the NFL is not credible, IMO.

 

[Silverdude2167]

I don't understand Rogers request to talk to JJ/JM and to hear "Brady's side of the story". Isn't that what you paid Wells for? What was the point of the report if you are going to do another round of interviews?

 

[Reverend]

An NFL source close to the Wells investigation fired back late Sunday.

The investigators did not agree with Dans characterizations in his e-mails and made clear after hearing out all of Dans arguments that they considered the Patriots in violation of the duty to cooperate, the source said. This is not like a normal piece of litigation, and if an investigator misses a piece of evidence he has an absolute obligation to follow up on the evidence. The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/17/ted-wells-needs-speak-again-why-said-patriots-didn-cooperate/2VSS1tDvCmsHjYmGfCK4zN/story.html#

 
The implication that the league should have more authority than the actual legal system is a pretty outstanding bit of self-importance.

Obviously, empirically their position is true, but it's almost like responding: "Hey, this is different from real litigation--this is important."

 

[Doctor G]

Or, far more likely, Walt Anderson was right about which gauge he used, and he adjusted the Patriots balls to 12.5psi using the logo gauge, setting off this entire comedy of errors.

Meanwhile no one has evaluated the gauge that Jastremski used. I am guessing Anderson used the logo gauge just to minimize the necessity of having to adjust the PSI  on the Pats balls.
I recall he said somewhere that this was the gauge he used on the K balls. I think that might be in the Exponent portion of the Wells Report.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

I don't understand Rogers request to talk to JJ/JM and to hear "Brady's side of the story". Isn't that what you paid Wells for? What was the point of the report if you are going to do another round of interviews?

Gives him a reason to reduce/eliminate Brady's penalty.

"Tom looked me in the eye and told me had had no knowledgeable of the trauma McNally inflicted upon the integrity of his balls. I found him candid, and due to the lack evidence connecting him to any ball trauma, I have converted his suspension into a fine for not cooperating fully with the investigation."

"Frick and Frack, however, were shifty characters with 10 dollar haircuts. I found their lack of faith in my omnipotence disturbing. Thusly, I have dispatched NFL security to eliminate their families and burn their shanties."

 

[nighthob]

And this -- THIS -- is why the NFL is fine with all of this.  They've got a big news story still and they haven't played a down in 3.5 months.

The problem is that the "big news story" has permanently tarnished one of the greatest superbowls ever and damaged the league financially (albeit slightly). And I suspect that will be part of Kraft's pitch to the other owners "Hey, if we let the league employees exploit their positions to settle old scores, how many more times will this happen and how many more games are going to be tarnished? And what are the merchandising losses going to look like in the long term?"

 

[dcmissle]

 
The implication that the league should have more authority than the actual legal system is a pretty outstanding bit of self-importance.

Obviously, empirically their position is true, but it's almost like responding: "Hey, this is different from real litigation--this is important."

It is there, in spades, across the board on every issue, and it's an important weakness. These are the same assholes who thought they could squeeze money post SB from Katy Perry for her half time performance. Eh, not.

Never forget this mindset. It governs everything.

 

[Super Nomario]

Meanwhile no one has evaluated the gauge that Jastremski used. I am guessing Anderson used the logo gauge just to minimize the necessity of having to adjust the PSI  on the Pats balls.
I recall he said somewhere that this was the gauge he used on the K balls. I think that might be in the Exponent portion of the Wells Report.

In a footnote to page 65, it's suggested that the gauge that James Daniel (game day operations) used to measure the Jackson INT football was the Patriots'.
 
Footnote:

 
We believe that Daniel located and used the pressure gauge supplied by the Patriots. We further believe that
this is the gauge that John Jastremski considers his normal gauge. It has not been located since the day of the
AFC Championship Game. 

 

[nighthob]

I doubt that Kraft will break out a peace pipe unless the first round draft pick is restored.  A 2017 4th rounder and $1M could be kind of sort of justified on a "failure to supervise" theory.  Even though that's bullshit, I don't think that Kraft would fall on his sword over it.  But the NFL is unlikely to settle with the Pats unless Brady comes into the deal, and Brady is unlikely to settle on anything.  He's got legal recourse, a reputation to uphold and a great case.

If Goodell were smart (and as I've repeatedly stated, no one's ever gone broke betting on the Artless Roger's stupidity), he would do precisely this and cut the legs out from the under the story and permanently cover Kraft and Brady in slime when, in all probability, nothing happened beyond Anderson setting the ball pressure with a gauge that read too high. Because rescinding the suspension and the first round pick loss, while permanently tarring the victims of this half assed sting operation, strengthens his hand, while placating Kraft and Belichick.

Fortunately the idiot will probably double down meaning an NFLPA court challenge and a public evisceration of the "investigation". And enough damage to make him a dead man walking.

 

[Archer1979]

The more I read of this, the more I'm feeling like I'm flashing back to the 90's.
 
There's really very little to the Wells report that proves that the balls were tampered with.  The chain of custody only gets shaky when McNally went into the rest room.  The Pats rebuttal is pretty spot on, with the delay to the start of the game, McNally would have plenty of time to deflate the balls, so why rush with a 90 second potty break?  Any other video of him taking a leak.  He has to take one sooner or later. 
 
One thing that I haven't heard anywhere is why didn't the on-field refs notice anything was up with the balls?  It seems plenty convenient that the only ball that registered that low was in the Colts hands, yet no ref noticed anything up to that point. I'm actually coming around to the idea that's most probable is that the Colts Furman'd the ball to grease the deflation case, but went too far.
 
As far as Brady not handing over his phone, I wouldn't have either.  With the leaks that are all around the NFL, there's zero chance that anything would remain confidential. I'm very mindful of what I text because privacy and cell phones are no lock.  But, I can imagine that even the most benign comment on my phone, taken out of context, could lead to a bad situation.  For Brady, all it takes is one gripe about Kraft or Manning, and it's headline news.  That said, I'd be surprised that Brady is anyone's choir boy, so there might be something else that could get the league offices going down another road a la Ken Starr, Bill Clinton, and the stained blue dress.

 

[garzooma]

 
I suppose if they were cute they might say something like "we'll show up to speak to you on the condition that the entire interview be broadcast live, and we are permitted an opening comment" with the intent that they'd come in with a long, angry, and detailed opening statement.  But that ain't going to happen.

 
So why don't the Patriots do their own broadcast?   They could cover the questions raised by the text messages,and underline that after multiple interviews, the only thing the NFL and Wells could get out of them was that McNally forgot he made a bathroom stop and that he went in a toilet instead of urinal (seriously).  The Patriots could allow Goodell & Wells to submit questions, as well as add some of their own: "So how does it feel to have the NFL spending millions of dollars having fancy Manhattan lawyers tell baseless lies about humble, decent folks such as yourselves?"

 

[ivanvamp]

 
I can only assume that Wells is working (and speaking) under a different definition of "independent", especially the way he conducted his conference call. 

 
Wells:  Yes I'm independent.
 
Me:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

 

[BigJimEd]

 
And this -- THIS -- is why the NFL is fine with all of this.  They've got a big news story still and they haven't played a down in 3.5 months.

But is it helpful? I don't see it helping with ratings or sponsors. Long term it's probably a negative for the league. Enough of these types of "controversies" and they will start to have an effect.

 

[tims4wins]

I would like to see a simple, national poll with the following question: how has the deflategate scandal impacted your perception of the integrity of the game in the NFL? Answer choices being A) increased perception of integrity; B) decreased perception of integrity; C) no change.
 
Genuinely curious of people around the country now have more confidence in the NFL or less.
 
Edit: what do you guys think? Do you think this gives "neutral" fans more confidence in the NFL? (and by neutral I mean basically all other fans, even Jets/Colts)

 

[pappymojo]

In a footnote to page 65, it's suggested that the gauge that James Daniel (game day operations) used to measure the Jackson INT football was the Patriots'.
 
Footnote:

God damn Colts stole our gauge.

 

[BigJimEd]

If Goodell were smart (and as I've repeatedly stated, no one's ever gone broke betting on the Artless Roger's stupidity), he would do precisely this and cut the legs out from the under the story and permanently cover Kraft and Brady in slime when, in all probability, nothing happened beyond Anderson setting the ball pressure with a gauge that read too high. Because rescinding the suspension and the first round pick loss, while permanently tarring the victims of this half assed sting operation, strengthens his hand, while placating Kraft and Belichick.

Fortunately the idiot will probably double down meaning an NFLPA court challenge and a public evisceration of the "investigation". And enough damage to make him a dead man walking.

yes. you led off with the key phrase. If Goodell was smart.
If he was smart he would've done that to begin with. You probably don't get the reaction from Patriots or Brady. Likely nothing more than a we are disappointed statement.
Some would complain but it would die down quickly and the Wells report would be considered gold by most.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Lots of luck to him, but I think his chances of success in reducing those penalties are close to nil

Again, unless there's a practicing lawyer to tell me to F Off here (I took a class in law school, but have nothing more), I think Kraft has a legitimate defamation claim here, based on the false PSI leaks. That's some pretty strong leverage to at least lower the sanctions.

 

[pappymojo]

I would like to see a simple, national poll with the following question: how has the deflategate scandal impacted your perception of the integrity of the game in the NFL? Answer choices being A) increased perception of integrity; B) decreased perception of integrity; C) no change.
 
Genuinely curious of people around the country now have more confidence in the NFL or less.
 
Edit: what do you guys think? Do you think this gives "neutral" fans more confidence in the NFL? (and by neutral I mean basically all other fans, even Jets/Colts)

I think that question is too broad. I'm a Patriots fan and I question the integrity of the game (the NFL are schmooks). Everyone else may question the integrity of the game for other reasons (the Patriots are crooks).

 

[Average Reds]

Again, unless there's a practicing lawyer to tell me to F Off here (I took a class in law school, but have nothing more), I think Kraft has a legitimate defamation claim here, based on the false PSI leaks. That's some pretty strong leverage to at least lower the sanctions.

Who will Kraft sue and how will he prove malice?

 

[AB in DC]

I don't understand Rogers request to talk to JJ/JM and to hear "Brady's side of the story". Isn't that what you paid Wells for? What was the point of the report if you are going to do another round of interviews?

 
The NFL asked Wells to play four separate roles: investigator, prosecutor, jury, and judge..  Hasn't anyone watched Law & Order?  In the real world, you have the police investigate, the DA prosecute, the judge oversees the trial, and the jury decides.
 
There is a reason why they're four separate roles.  If you give the investigator the power to prosecute, judge, and decide, that is, by definition, a police state.
 
 
Same principle here.  You want to rely on Wells to investigate?  Fine.  Take his report, turn it over to a prosecutor, and let both sides present their case a neutral decider.  That's the way these things are supposed to work.

 

[Otis Foster]

Again, unless there's a practicing lawyer to tell me to F Off here (I took a class in law school, but have nothing more), I think Kraft has a legitimate defamation claim here, based on the false PSI leaks. That's some pretty strong leverage to at least lower the sanctions.

 
He'd be crazy to take that route IMO. It would open him up to discovery on the entire history of his business dealings. I think he's a legitimate guy, but no-one gets to the status he's reached without picking up some flyspecks along the way.

 

[Koufax]

Defamation, particularly for a public figure, is almost always a losing battle.  The plaintiff must prove actual malice by clear and convincing evidence.  As General William Westmoreland found out, bringing such a lawsuit is a poor way to burnish one's reputation.

 

[OnWisc]

The biggest advantage Brady (and possible Kraft) has here is that he knows what happened*, and can push things as far as he feels is warranted. If Brady is truly innocent, then any additional discoveries, up to and including full disclosure, can only help his case. If he knows that there's nothing truly incriminating out there, then there's no reason for him not to exhaust every avenue in hopes of getting this thing overturned. As for turning over personal devices, how many here would be willing to do that in the face of some trumped up allegations? It'd be one thing if doing so would allow you to avoid jail time or a crushing financial sanction, but otherwise- if you know there's nothing there- fuck off.

Kraft is pretty much in the same boat, though regardless of how much he trusts Brady, he simply can't be 100% certain. That, and the fact that as an owner he may still be swayed by the other owners and best-interests of the league nonsense, are the only reasons for him not to pursue every avenue available (if there are any) to get those picks back.

*unless of course the balls were actually deflated without his knowledge because a certain individual didn't want to feel the wrath of Brady and took it upon himself to adjust some balls that he thought Brady would bitch about.

 

[lambeau]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/author/floriomj/

Florio continues to critique Wells' "scorched-earth search for anything" to indict Patriots. Like he's become an advocate.

 

[Harry Hooper]

God damn Colts stole our gauge.

 
 
More likely Kensil or one of the NFL minions pocketed it.
 
 
Even if he can't get the picks back, if Kraft can get an agreement with the NFL that the Pats can go back to first-time offender status after a short period, that would be worthwhile. Absent that, Kraft pretty much has to fight to the limit given escalating penalties.

 

[OnWisc]

Defamation, particularly for a public figure, is almost always a losing battle.  The plaintiff must prove actual malice by clear and convincing evidence.  As General William Westmoreland found out, bringing such a lawsuit is a poor way to burnish one's reputation.

Again, not a lawyer, but in the process of such a suit could the NFL be forced to produce internal communications in the days immediately before and after the Colts game? As embarrassing as the mischaracterization of the Wells reports and the texts between Heckle and Jeckle are, I fully believe that it'd be dwarfed by any documentation of what was going on behind the scenes in the league office prior to handing this thing off to Wells. Perhaps nothing there would include evidence of malice against Brady and the organization, but I would not be surprised in the least to find something there. Maybe not from Goodell, but somewhere in league office emails and texts.

 

[Doctor G]

God damn Colts stole our gauge.

 

The biggest advantage Brady (and possible Kraft) has here is that he knows what happened*, and can push things as far as he feels is warranted. If Brady is truly innocent, then any additional discoveries, up to and including full disclosure, can only help his case. If he knows that there's nothing truly incriminating out there, then there's no reason for him not to exhaust every avenue in hopes of getting this thing overturned. As for turning over personal devices, how many here would be willing to do that in the face of some trumped up allegations? It'd be one thing if doing so would allow you to avoid jail time or a crushing financial sanction, but otherwise- if you know there's nothing there- fuck off.

Kraft is pretty much in the same boat, though regardless of how much he trusts Brady, he simply can't be 100% certain. That, and the fact that as an owner he may still be swayed by the other owners and best-interests of the league nonsense, are the only reasons for him not to pursue every avenue available (if there are any) to get those picks back.

*unless of course the balls were actually deflated without his knowledge because a certain individual didn't want to feel the wrath of Brady and took it upon himself to adjust some balls that he thought Brady would bitch about.

Seeing as so much of NFL  discipline involves personal conduct these days, I can see why Brady and the NFLPA would be wary of establishing any precedent.Don't want those defensive linemen any angrier than they already are..

 

[snowmanny]

Was in Vegas this weekend and was proudly wearing my SB champs t-shirt. Got a lot of Deflate-gate comments at the tables with some
more choice words being used by a Colts and Seahawks fan at the craps table. I then got a kick out of crapping out while they both had some rather large sums of money on the table.


"Should have known you can't trust a Patriots fan"

Lol boo hoo, chumps.

Actually a t-shirt with LOLBOOHOO under a Pats logo is something I would wear.

 

[Carmine Hose]

So many wacky questions still remain on this:
 
*Has anyone asked about the videotapes from the locker room in any of the previous home games, including the week immediately prior when they played the Ravens? 
 
The league is investigating what may or may not have happened during the Colts game here, but if they want us to believe that McNally tampered with the balls before the Colts game, would he not be doing that before every home game?  If this was a standard procedure preferred/authorized/directed by Brady, why would it just be one game?  Wouldn't this happen every week?   (And since they don't control the balls on the road, why would Tom want "deflated" balls at home and not on the road?  Wouldn't you prefer consistency?)
 
It would be pretty "incriminating" if the locker room tapes showed McNally going behind some door every week after he had the balls.  But what if it shows he took the bag and went right to the field?
 
I would think if the league had those tapes and he did it on another occasion(s), that they would be all over it in the report noting he does this every week, and unless he has OCD, it goes beyond coincidence that he happens to go to the bathroom at the same pre-game time each week (noting the start times on games vary each week).
 
*  If some balls fell within the prescribed air loss level from Wells' own experts, are they saying that McNally didn't deflate those ones, and only the ones that measured below their loss numbers?  Why would McNally only deflate some of the 12 balls then?  What would be the point if there was a likelihood that TB would get a non-tampered ball anyway?  And if he did deflate certain ones, it was for a fractional amount?  What again would be the point of that?