#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

RedOctober3829

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When somebody as powerful as Kraft goes to the wall on an issue then all of a sudden shifts a different direction, it isn't out of the goodness of his heart.  He's gaining something by doing this.  I just want to find out if it's Brady getting off totally.  If it isn't, then I'll wonder why he did this.  But, let's let this play out.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Stitch01 said:
The pick is more valuable than  Brady getting suspended for four games.  Unfortunately, there was no real recourse for the pick.  There is recourse for the Brady suspension, and for Kraft Im sure Brady matters more than  random pick equity from an emotional standpoint.  So here we are.
 
Exactly.
 
We also don't know what was informally discussed and decided.  Maybe Goodell essentially agreed to drop or lesson the Brady suspension.  Or maybe he informally agreed that there would be a high bar for coming down on the Patriots again in the future and that the "repeat offender" part of the punishment rationale wouldn't be used as some kind of cumulative attack device.
 
I'm not saying that those things are true.  But we're all on the outside of the process and are working with pretty limited information.
 

Section15Box113

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PedroKsBambino said:
 
That is a good statement, given the practical realities.  He is not conceding the underlying facts, and takes veiled shots at the league about the length, the lack of evidence, and the punishment.  I'm not sure what else he could have done other than appeal (which really means litigate, given that there's close to zero chance Goodell was going to reduce the penalties himself).
 
The real discussion is behind closed doors:  did other owners promise Kraft changes in the governance process if he drops it?  Is there consensus about removing Pash, Kensil, or Goodell?   Those things won't be announced, but we'll see how things play out next few months.
 
This is where I am too.  Only real disappointment is that the statement focused on the fairness of the punishment (i.e., too heavy relative to the transgression) vs. maintaining innocence. 
 
Let's wait to see how it plays out.  What happened/what will happen behind closed doors is what matters.
 

AB in DC

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By now Belichick should realize that he needs to win on Park Avenue, not just the football field.
 
Time for Belichick and Ernie Adams to dig up some dirt on other teams that they can use in this other game.
 

Section15Box113

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Ed Hillel said:
I think Kraft also should have mentioned that something needs to be done in terms of fixing the entire process, that he maintained their innocence, and that he was going to do what was in his power to make sure there was more objectivity in the future. What happens next time?
+1
 

soxhop411

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RedOctober3829 said:
When somebody as powerful as Kraft goes to the wall on an issue then all of a sudden shifts a different direction, it isn't out of the goodness of his heart.  He's gaining something by doing this.  I just want to find out if it's Brady getting off totally.  If it isn't, then I'll wonder why he did this.  But, let's let this play out.
yup
 

redsoxcentury

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The problem too is I was hoping the Patriots would play the role of ratting out other times flouting of the rules, to make a point.  Now I don't think that happens, meaning Patriots will be in everyone's minds the "only" cheaters, even if not close to being true.
 

joe dokes

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
In his prime Al Davis would have taken this to court and won easily.
 
Al Davis is not the example I thin Patriot fans want Kraft to follow  Al Davis died a lonely and bitter man who had to move his team around California and who hadn't won much in the last real long time of his ownership, and who rotting stench stil permeates the franchise.
 
I think you have it exactly backwards. Bob Kraft does not want to end up like Al Davis.
 

Stitch01

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
So Robert Kraft - the guy who brought long term success to what was once the laughing stock of professional sports - decides that it is in the team's and league's best interest to sqaush this whole silly thing and some folks here, who have far less perspective on it than Kraft, are criticizing him?

Really? Maybe we really are the worst sports fans ever...
Pats fans are going to have to hear bullshit about cheating from muppet opposing fans looking to strike at their betters for, well, ever because the league is run by incompetent morons.  Maybe give people a little time to blow off steam?
 

nolasoxfan

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I’d like to think Kraft and the Pats will wait patiently in the tall grass for the opportune time to take out Harbaugh, Kensil, Mort, Vincent, Irsay, Goodell, and any other clown responsible for this bag job.  That’s a tall order, though--not to mention unlikely.
 
Very few things in life are worse than witnessing impunity in action.  Sad day.
 

PedroKsBambino

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
So Robert Kraft - the guy who brought long term success to what was once the laughing stock of professional sports - decides that it is in the team's and league's best interest to sqaush this whole silly thing and some folks here, who have far less perspective on it than Kraft, are criticizing him?

Really? Maybe we really are the worst sports fans ever...
 
Yup.  it's flat-out embarrassing that people are saying Kraft should step aside.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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RedOctober3829 said:
When somebody as powerful as Kraft goes to the wall on an issue then all of a sudden shifts a different direction, it isn't out of the goodness of his heart.  He's gaining something by doing this.  I just want to find out if it's Brady getting off totally.  If it isn't, then I'll wonder why he did this.  But, let's let this play out.
Yes. He didn't stop fighting because he's old and tired. Something happened behind the scenes that was worth shifting his stance (in his mind, anyway).
 

nighthob

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Stitch01 said:
The pick is more valuable than  Brady getting suspended for four games.  Unfortunately, there was no real recourse for the pick.  There is recourse for the Brady suspension, and for Kraft Im sure Brady matters more than  random pick equity from an emotional standpoint.  So here we are.
I disagree here. Brady is the GOAT, in terms of financial value to the Patriots' brand either having the NFL exonerate Brady or letting the courts eviscerate the league office, thus exonerating Brady, is a lot more important than a first round pick.
 

Valek123

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As it has been for months, nothing matters until Brady has his day in court.  Kraft made this business decision to protect the NFL from continuing this soap opera, and it's unfortunate as a fan given how shaky all the evidence was.  But fighting the guy you put in power in public and winning destroys the NFL, if the Patriots walk from this with no punishment the 80% of NFL fans who already convicted the Patriots would be disenfranchised by the NFL resulting in real financial losses.
 
It sucks but the writing has been on the wall about Kraft for months, I don't think we read it close enough in hind-sight.
 
TB takes this all the way though, and the -500 odds from Vegas indicate as I believe he doesn't see a day of suspension and has his name "cleared".
 
Total BS, but this has been all along nothing changed today...
 

jablo1312

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Stitch01 said:
Based on everything we know about BB Id guess he hates Goodell with the fire of 1000 suns, knows he's a clown, thinks this is beyond bullshit, hates losing the 1st rounder  more than the money he paid for spygate, and wants all this bullshit well over and done with by week 1 at all costs.
 
Yea, Belichick's contempt for Goodell has been evident ever since he gave his quarter-assed Spygate apology.
 
The biggest positive thing moving forward from this mess is that the best way to shove it down everyone's throat is to keep dominating the league. And there's no coach in maybe all of sports I'd want leading a team out of this than Bill. 
 

Bergs

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Stitch01 said:
Pats fans are going to have to hear bullshit about cheating from muppet opposing fans looking to strike at their betters for, well, ever because the league is run by incompetent morons.  Maybe give people a little time to blow off steam?
this.
 

dcmissle

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I'd agree if he made even a gesture towards his own fanbase with all of this. He didn't maintain the innocence of the team, and he didn't say Tom Brady's name once. 
 
He could have been a good soldier while at least acknowledging to the rest of us that he still disagrees. Forget any kind of deal or penalty reduction or sueing the league, at this point he didn't even say he disagreed with the punishment!
 
This was a complete and total, 100% cave. How do you respect that as a fan of the team?
If you're committed to ending the debate, you end the debate. One good side of this approach is not subjecting himself to questions. About Brady ... about what he and Rog talked about ... and so forth.
 

BoredViewer

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What a letdown. I wanted Kraft to drag the whole NFL through the mud.  
 
The NFL brought this on itself.  It would have been so easy to nip this utterly inconsequential incident in the bud - with nobody ever caring... but they didn't.
 

kartvelo

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
Exactly.
 
We also don't know what was informally discussed and decided.  Maybe Goodell essentially agreed to drop or lesson the Brady suspension.  Or maybe he informally agreed that there would be a high bar for coming down on the Patriots again in the future and that the "repeat offender" part of the punishment rationale wouldn't be used as some kind of cumulative attack device.
 
I'm not saying that those things are true.  But we're all on the outside of the process and are working with pretty limited information.
If I were Kraft I wouldn't trust Goodell to tell me what time it is, let alone "keep something in mind" for the future. He's fucked over Kraft multiple times.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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For whatever reason, Bob Kraft made the decision to accept the punishment and not fight it in court.  For whatever reason he made that decision, one thing is certain-he has far FAR more information on which to base that decision than any of us here.  He also has access to guys like Jerry Jones, the Rooneys, the Maras, Jeff Lurie-influential owners who can give him an accurate take on what the response of the other owners will be if he decides to go the litigation route.  He also presumably had some discussions with BB.  He took all of that information, and made what he believes is the best decision for the team.  In the end, he decided that the risk wasnt worth the potential reward.  I don't know what tipped it in this direction, but it had to be something pretty significant-we are an awful long way from his demand for an apology, and as Riboflav noted above the leaks of a deal followed by this make him look even worse. He is going to take the hit and move on, because the alternative is worse than the hit he is taking.
 

ifmanis5

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ivanvamp said:
 
The upshot of accepting this penalty (or if they had sued and lost, thus the penalties staying in place) is that the next time the Patriots commit any tiny wrongdoing (like 0.5 psi isn't enough of a tiny wrongdoing, even if they did it) they will be THIRD time offenders.  So Goodell could simply hit them with, what, a $2 million team fine, and the loss of two first round picks?  And what, then, can Kraft do about that?
Excellent point. Hopefully there won't be a next time.
 

SeanBerry

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cshea said:
Kraft falling on the sword so Brady gets zero games has to be the deal.
 
Wait. What? No.
 
Sure, it's reasonable that Brady gets a reduced suspension but you people actually think the entire 4 game suspension is going to get wiped away? What? Why? So Kraft wouldn't sue the NFL in a case he'd likely lose and lose the entire room of owners he has to deal with? You think that's the likely scenario?
 
Patriot fans have been so totally out in left field during this entire process. Many of you really believe nothing shady happened here. That the league has some double secret plan to bring the Pats. Then you seem shocked when Kraft won't sue the NFL (which he's spent a generation building up). And now you think a whole 4 game suspension will just disappear?
 
You people are fucking mad.
 

Stitch01

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nighthob said:
I disagree here. Brady is the GOAT, in terms of financial value to the Patriots' brand either having the NFL exonerate Brady or letting the courts eviscerate the league office, thus exonerating Brady, is a lot more important than a first round pick.
I dont disagree.
 

DJnVa

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My Sundays in the Fall and Winter will include a lot time away from the TV.
 
Great. Awesome.
 
Probably done with this thread too huh?
 
 

ragnarok725

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
So Robert Kraft - the guy who brought long term success to what was once the laughing stock of professional sports - decides that it is in the team's and league's best interest to sqaush this whole silly thing and some folks here, who have far less perspective on it than Kraft, are criticizing him?

Really? Maybe we really are the worst sports fans ever...
 
That's your take here?
 
The Pats are being railroaded. We wanted the owner to stand up for the team. He laid down. And everyone who doesn't lie down along with him is the worst sports fan ever?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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joe dokes said:
 
Al Davis is not the example I thin Patriot fans want Kraft to follow  Al Davis died a lonely and bitter man who had to move his team around California and who hadn't won much in the last real long time of his ownership, and who rotting stench stil permeates the franchise.
 
I think you have it exactly backwards. Bob Kraft does not want to end up like Al Davis.
He's already there. By supporting this disgrace of a commish even when the Ginger Hammer fucks over his own team, he's displaying the same clueless idiocy that Davis did in his waning years. Bob Kraft rendered himself irrelevant today while his team got sabotaged for the foreseeable future, and he''s just...taking it?

Fuck that noise.
 

Bleedred

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Thoughts:
 
1.  Bob Kraft loves the adulation of being an owner;  and was not interested in fighting the league, spending millions of dollars doing so, and losing the case; his money and his standing among the owners.
 
2.  Notwithstanding the pious rage against Bob right now;  every Patriots game will be sold out this year, he will continue to make tens of millions of dollars a year; the Patriots will head to the playoffs
 
3.  There is no backroom deal between Bob and Goodell about TB12's suspension.  That's on Brady and the NFLPA (and I hope they fight to the bitter end)
 
4.  Jonathan Kraft's instincts would have had him fight this....and it would have been the wrong instincts IMO.   We're far better off with Bob K as owner than we will be with Jonathan...unless Jonathan has learned some humility in the last 10 years working with Bob (pretty unlikley IMO). 
 

Reverend

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Stitch01 said:
Pats fans are going to have to hear bullshit about cheating from muppet opposing fans looking to strike at their betters for, well, ever because the league is run by incompetent morons.  Maybe give people a little time to blow off steam?
 
Goddammit, Stitch, I have had just about enough of your  Muppet bashing!!
 
Fuck it--aren't we used to this by now? Here's to Belichick breaking out the monocle:

As previously mentioned, the Pats are a better match precisely because of the easy villainous foil. The longtime loser, come from nowhere, castoff veteran leader and rookie sensational Saints vs. the emotionless panzertruppen Pats.
 
If the Pats go against the Saints, I'm guessing the Saints will come onto the field as one unit, in a Glinda the Good Witch pink bubble of hope and inspiration. The Pats will come down in black hangliders, and Belichick will be vearing a monocle. 
 
 

Black hang-gliders for everyone!
 

joe dokes

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Salem's Lot said:
 
I doubt it. This is open season on the Patriots every time they're in a big game. Every team know knows that they can conspire with league officials to fuck over the Patriots and nobody is going to do a God damn thing to fight it. 
 
.
 
And all the people at BuffaloWildWings are gonna say mean things about the Patriots AS THEY PLAY FOR ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP.
 
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
So Robert Kraft - the guy who brought long term success to what was once the laughing stock of professional sports - decides that it is in the team's and league's best interest to sqaush this whole silly thing and some folks here, who have far less perspective on it than Kraft, are criticizing him?

Really? Maybe we really are the worst sports fans ever...
 
At least the most sensitive to criticism from irrelevant people.
 

BigJimEd

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Saying that he put money above the team, or the league above the team does not resonate with me. He is taking a shitty situation, playing the ball as it lies, and deciding what he thinks is the best course of action in the long run.
It doesn't resonate that he put the league over the team? He said it himself. He's an NFL owner first and foremost. League comes first.

I'm not saying he should sell the team or step away and let Jonathon run it but let's be realistic here. What makes anyone think the good of the Patriots China's before the league.


We all know he didn't have good options. But as Kraft said, he could have appealed. Yes he almost definitely loses but sometimes your do it anyway. He decided to walk away.

He's protecting the partnership as he said.
 

rodderick

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SeanBerry said:
 
Wait. What? No.
 
Sure, it's reasonable that Brady gets a reduced suspension but you people actually think the entire 4 game suspension is going to get wiped away? What? Why? So Kraft wouldn't sue the NFL in a case he'd likely lose and lose the entire room of owners he has to deal with? You think that's the likely scenario?
 
Patriot fans have been so totally out in left field during this entire process. Many of you really believe nothing shady happened here. That the league has some double secret plan to bring the Pats. Then you seem shocked when Kraft won't sue the NFL (which he's spent a generation building up). And now you think a whole 4 game suspension will just disappear?
 
You people are fucking mad.
 
Maybe a fucking Jets fan should think about stepping away from the discussion when it's half an hour old and clearly involves an emotional subject to Pats fans here.
 

H78

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
He's already there. By supporting this disgrace of a commish even when the Ginger Hammer fucks over his own team, he's displaying the same clueless idiocy that Davis did in his waning years. Bob Kraft rendered himself irrelevant today while his team got sabotaged for the foreseeable future, and he''s just...taking it?

Fuck that noise.
This.
 

Stitch01

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SeanBerry said:
 
Wait. What? No.
 
Sure, it's reasonable that Brady gets a reduced suspension but you people actually think the entire 4 game suspension is going to get wiped away? What? Why? So Kraft wouldn't sue the NFL in a case he'd likely lose and lose the entire room of owners he has to deal with? You think that's the likely scenario?
 
Patriot fans have been so totally out in left field during this entire process. Many of you really believe nothing shady happened here. That the league has some double secret plan to bring the Pats. Then you seem shocked when Kraft won't sue the NFL (which he's spent a generation building up). And now you think a whole 4 game suspension will just disappear?
 
You people are fucking mad.
I'll bet $500 to the Jimmy Fund to you perma leaving the site that you are wrong.
 
Step up son.
 

Ed Hillel

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rodderick said:
 
Maybe a fucking Jets fan should think about stepping away from the discussion when it's half an hour old and clearly involves an emotional subject to Pats fans here.
 
This is what they live for, though. Sure beats focusing on their own team.
 


What does he mean?
 
The way I read it is that some random GM called him a p***y, or something along those lines.
 

GregHarris

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Can't quote reply, but what the hell does that mean.  Cynicism?
 
What are they afraid of?
 

Salem's Lot

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joe dokes said:
 
.
 
And all the people at BuffaloWildWings are gonna say mean things about the Patriots AS THEY PLAY FOR ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP.
 
 
 
At least the most sensitive to criticism from irrelevant people.
 
I'm not worrying about what idiot opposing fans say. I'm worrying about the affect that crap like this will have on actual games. 
 

joe dokes

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
He's already there. By supporting this disgrace of a commish even when the Ginger Hammer fucks over his own team, he's displaying the same clueless idiocy that Davis did in his waning years. Bob Kraft rendered himself irrelevant today while his team got sabotaged for the foreseeable future, and he''s just...taking it?

Fuck that noise.
 
True. Except for that whole, "Is that even a professional football team anymore" stuff that surrounded the Raiders for most of the last 30 years.