#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

As a Brady and a Pats fan, I want him to go the distance.  Because I think if this goes to court Goodell gets absolutely raked over the coals.  The entire case is built on shoddy science, innuendo, assumptions, and about ten other dump trucks full of crap.
 
And that's putting it kindly.

Lets start by saying that even by the most conservative standards (i.e. those who assumed this whole thing would go against the Patriots), this forum got things horribly wrong.

So while it would be great to see Brady fight this in court, its bad business. His main goal should be to minimize his suspension because he will never be exonerated. Arguing otherwise is foolhardy - if Brady somehow goes to court and "Goodell is raked over the coals" whatever that means, the general public will chalk it up to Brady having high priced attorneys versus the truth being revealed. Furthermore, he will be challenging the league which will almost certainly further tarnish his standing.

You guys keep beating the drum but nothing is going to change the fact that the Pats and Brady are losers here. If they are smart (and dont follow some of the strategies suggested here), they can cut their losses in terms of how much time Brady will miss.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I'm guessing that any future litigation that uses Exponent as an expert could involve the opposing party using this report as an example of Exponent's unscientific bias. Experts from both side try to debunk each other all the time, right?

 

[ivanvamp]

Lets start by saying that even by the most conservative standards (i.e. those who assumed this whole thing would go against the Patriots), this forum got things horribly wrong.

So while it would be great to see Brady fight this in court, its bad business. His main goal should be to minimize his suspension because he will never be exonerated. Arguing otherwise is foolhardy - if Brady somehow goes to court and "Goodell is raked over the coals" whatever that means, the general public will chalk it up to Brady having high priced attorneys versus the truth being revealed. Furthermore, he will be challenging the league which will almost certainly further tarnish his standing.

You guys keep beating the drum but nothing is going to change the fact that the Pats and Brady are losers here. If they are smart (and dont follow some of the strategies suggested here), they can cut their losses in terms of how much time Brady will miss.

 
It wasn't bad business for Vilma to take Goodell to appeal or take Goodell to court.  
 
A full vetting (as best as a court can do) of Goodell and this case and the NFL's processes (or lack thereof) would very possibly yield a major victory for Brady.  Moreover, there is no sign at all that Goodell has any interest in cutting Brady's punishment.
 
I mean, after three-plus months and $5 million spent, Goodell says that he'd be happy to talk to Brady about the case, AFTER the verdict has been reached and the punishment laid out?  I mean, Goodell wouldn't have wanted to talk to Brady BEFORE then?
 
Tagliabue rightly ripped Goodell a new one in the Bountygate scandal.  Goodell is a total loose cannon, doling out punishment in a completely ad hoc manner.  

 

[epraz]

So while it would be great to see Brady fight this in court, its bad business. His main goal should be to minimize his suspension because he will never be exonerated. Arguing otherwise is foolhardy - if Brady somehow goes to court and "Goodell is raked over the coals" whatever that means, the general public will chalk it up to Brady having high priced attorneys versus the truth being revealed. Furthermore, he will be challenging the league which will almost certainly further tarnish his standing.

 
I'll tell you one way he can be sure he'll never be exonerated in anyone's mind, and that's to drop his appeal or accept a deal.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
I'll tell you one way he can be sure he'll never be exonerated in anyone's mind, and that's to drop his appeal or accept a deal.

He will never be exonerated regardless of what he does. It sucks but if you think fans in other NFL cities will change their minds based on a court case, you are deluded.

 

[E5 Yaz]

He will never be exonerated regardless of what he does. It sucks but if you think fans in other NFL cities will change their minds based on a court case, you are deluded.

 
For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
 
For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

He will never be exonerated regardless of what he does. It sucks but if you think fans in other NFL cities will change their minds based on a court case, you are deluded.

 
Not necessarily.  I thought Vilma was an inveterate headhunter, then after the Tagliabue rebuke I looked deeper into the case and realized that the allegations were trumped-up and that Vilma was caught in another Goodell clusterf**k.  My opinion was changed, and I'm sure I wasn't alone on that.

 

[TheoShmeo]

But Dejesus, how do you answer the Vilma example?  I mean, I am with you to the extent that I think Brady would be well advised to end the madness, bring certainty to the situation, suffer the penalty early in the year and go about the business of increasing the odds that he'll be able to steer the Pats back to the playoffs and even a bye by accepting one or two games early. 
 
But then again, you act as if it's a slam dunk that he will lose the appeal.
 
Vilma shows that it's not a slam dunk, as does the fact that Tom's penalty is clearly and inarguably way out of whack with other penalties, and even the non-cooperation stuff is preposterous in light of the Favre precedent (as detailed by Ivankamp up thread).  And then there's the fact that the Wells Report convicted Tom on the thinnest of reeds -- more probable than not that he was generally aware. 

 

[E5 Yaz]

But Dejesus, how do you answer the Vilma example?  I mean, I am with you to the extent that I think Brady would be well advised to end the madness, bring certainty to the situation, suffer the penalty early in the year and go about the business of increasing the odds that he'll be able to steer the Pats back to the playoffs and even a bye by accepting one or two games early. 
 
But then again, you act as if it's a slam dunk that he will lose the appeal.
 
Vilma shows that it's not a slam dunk, as does the fact that Tom's penalty is clearly and inarguably way out of whack with other penalties, and even the non-cooperation stuff is preposterous in light of the Favre precedent (as detailed by Ivankamp up thread).  And then there's the fact that the Wells Report convicted Tom on the thinnest of reeds -- more probable than not that he was generally aware. 

 
That's not his point. God could come down to Earth and declare Brady innocent ... and the NFL fans Dejesus was speaking of would still believe the Patriots and Brady were guilty

 

[judyb]

Lets start by saying that even by the most conservative standards (i.e. those who assumed this whole thing would go against the Patriots), this forum got things horribly wrong.

So while it would be great to see Brady fight this in court, its bad business. His main goal should be to minimize his suspension because he will never be exonerated. Arguing otherwise is foolhardy - if Brady somehow goes to court and "Goodell is raked over the coals" whatever that means, the general public will chalk it up to Brady having high priced attorneys versus the truth being revealed. Furthermore, he will be challenging the league which will almost certainly further tarnish his standing.

You guys keep beating the drum but nothing is going to change the fact that the Pats and Brady are losers here. If they are smart (and dont follow some of the strategies suggested here), they can cut their losses in terms of how much time Brady will miss.

I'm not much of a football fan, and I couldn't care less about what the general public believes about anything, if they're like most of the people I run into, they mostly believe whatever they want to believe or whatever some people they like tell them to believe. I also don't care much about Tom Brady, or any football player on any team, missing some games, so I'm not representative of most of the people in this discussion. But if Brady isn't guilty of anything, I hope he fights it as far as he can, because this whole episode seems to stink of BS, and while he might be the last person on earth anyone should waste their sympathy on, the next player to be railroaded like this deserves Tom Brady to fight this to try to make it so that he won't be.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I'm not much of a football fan, and I couldn't care less about what the general public believes about anything, if they're like most of the people I run into, they mostly believe whatever they want to believe or whatever some people they like tell them to believe. I also don't care much about Tom Brady, or any football player on any team, missing some games, so I'm not representative of most of the people in this discussion. But if Brady isn't guilty of anything, I hope he fights it as far as he can, because this whole episode seems to stink of BS, and while he might be the last person on earth anyone should waste their sympathy on, the next player to be railroaded like this deserves Tom Brady to fight this to try to make it so that he won't be.

Forgive me but I simply don't see any strategic reason for Brady to do something beyond appealing his suspension.

E5 has bingo - maybe there are a few folks out there who may be swayed in Brady's favor but the majority of non-Patriot fans won't buy it even if a court case finds in his favor. So what is the goal, then? Embarrass Goodell? Those same fans know Goodell is a clown and a bad actor but more ill will towards him wont mean more goodwill toward Brady or the Pats.

 

[TheoShmeo]

E5, he made two points.  Minimize the penalty.  He will not be exonerated in the public eye.  All I'm saying is that regarding the first point, it's not the case that he has no shot at getting his penalty wiped clean.
 
And the other thing is that it's true that Tom will not change public perceptions...in the short run.  But as time goes by, and when Brady enters the HOF, there's a difference between having been suspended for 4 games for cheating and having the NFL's penalty been reduced or eliminated because a Court said the NFL got it wrong.  Tom likely knows he wont change perceptions now but he may be hoping that he can affect how history remembers him.  As one of the all time greats, I don't blame him for making an attempt at the long game.  As a Pats fan, I care most about him maximizing the chances of winning another FU ring. 

 

[E5 Yaz]

I don't mean to speak for DeJesus, but I'm certain he would say to go forward with the appeal, which could reduce the suspension. 
 
But as you said, the major point is to get him back on the field, focused on winning another title. A lawsuit that stretches into the regular season doesn't seem to me to be an effective way of sharpening his focus.

 

[Valek123]

Forgive me but I simply don't see any strategic reason for Brady to do something beyond appealing his suspension.

 
The NFLPA wants to push this as far as possible, the players association feels that Rog has too much power with little to no standards in terms of how punishment is sent.  Brady IMO is the perfect person for them to use to break the system, I would be absolutely blown away if anything short of a complete dismissal of all suspension and fines by the NFL at the appeal keeps this out of court.  The players and the NFLPA want an fair and consistent system and they are will use this event to try and get leverage for it to happen.
 
/Edit as it popped up while replying - What Theo said above about the HOF etc...

 

[Rook05]

Forgive me but I simply don't see any strategic reason for Brady to do something beyond appealing his suspension.

E5 has bingo - maybe there are a few folks out there who may be swayed in Brady's favor but the majority of non-Patriot fans won't buy it even if a court case finds in his favor. So what is the goal, then? Embarrass Goodell? Those same fans know Goodell is a clown and a bad actor but more ill will towards him wont mean more goodwill toward Brady or the Pats.

Well, there's the whole NFLPA angle to consider as well. I agree that "taking Goodell down a peg" isn't a great motivation, but getting the commissioner's office out of the judge/jury/executioner business would be a win for the players. Discrediting yet another Goodell's punishment would help either add some independent review body soon or it would give the NFLPA an additional bargaining chip when the next CBA roles around.

Pro-Patriot feelings aside, I've always felt an independent review of things like helmet-to-helmet hits made sense. But that's not something Goodell, and by extension, the owners want.

 

[BroodsSexton]

I'm guessing that any future litigation that uses Exponent as an expert could involve the opposing party using this report as an example of Exponent's unscientific bias. Experts from both side try to debunk each other all the time, right?

Absolutely irrelevant in any future litigation, unless it's the same expert or -- maybe -- the same issue and methodology. Every expert sets forth his methodology in his report. The fact that a different expert associated with Exponent, on a different issue, with a different methodology, got blown up is totally, utterly irrelevant. Cross-examination latitude is generally pretty wide, but it's hard to see this coming into any other case. Experts blow up all the time. It just doesn't matter.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

I would be very curious to see a poll of the NFL HOF Selection Committee to see what their thoughts are regarding Brady needing an overturn of RG's suspension in regards to their vote come the first time he is eligible.  My gut is he has a stain that can't be washed off regardless, and if that is the case, then get the suspension reduced as much as possible and then its on to SB 50.  Any notion of anti-Patriot fans accepting TB's non involvment is folly..my angst will be any * next to his name or the SB wins because he took a deal..

 

[deanx0]

Ultimately this will go to court for the same reason that the 32 owners consistently support Goodell no matter what the general public says--both sides are now jockeying about the next collective bargaining agreement. The NFLPA wants to push the Brady case not because they believe Tom has been wrongfully accused (in fact, I'd be willing to bet that a poll of NFL players would find more thinking Tom was guilty than innocent), but they want to check the commissioner's power before the next agreement is negotiated in order to start from a better bargaining position. On the flip side, the owners will back Goodell because they don't want to undermine their negotiating position. In fact if the owners decide to replace Goodell, it won't be until the next CBA is hammered out after the 2020 season. Both sides are lining up on the key issues: guaranteed contracts, the power of the commissioner to unilaterally impose discipline, concussions, franchise values, and everything else. Each side has their list of what's important, and if Goodell holds on to his power to punish players, it could be a give back in exchange for a concession from the players on rookie scale, length of contract, etc. Same with the players--if they can successfully erode the commissioner's power in this area, they might be willing to hand it back in exchange for more guaranteed money on veteran contracts.

 

[drbretto]

There are obviously plenty of fans whose opinions will never change, but winning in a court and having the narrative make the switch over to Goodell's incompetence gives us more to work with than dropping the appeal.
 
I don't mean in like some kind of bullet point by bullet point presentation. Literally, to me, its the difference between some jackass always being able to get the last laugh on this vs being able to say "yeah, that was overturned in court. Goodell is a jackass" end of conversation bit. 
 
And on a human side, if indeed Brady is completely innocent, if I was in his position, I absolutely WOULD want to embarrass Goodell and let him take all the heat for his own bullshit. 
 
I don't think anyone realistically believes that this thing is going to end with a "We're sorry, Patriots" parade, but being able to shut up a casual dumbass or give them enough doubt not to have to hear about it forever is completely worth risking the minute possibility that Brady might miss a playoff game.

 

[Super Nomario]

Forgive me but I simply don't see any strategic reason for Brady to do something beyond appealing his suspension.

E5 has bingo - maybe there are a few folks out there who may be swayed in Brady's favor but the majority of non-Patriot fans won't buy it even if a court case finds in his favor. So what is the goal, then? Embarrass Goodell? Those same fans know Goodell is a clown and a bad actor but more ill will towards him wont mean more goodwill toward Brady or the Pats.

Brady loves football and doesn't want to miss more than a month of games and practices. He also doesn't want to be out $1.8 MM.
 
I think you're right that he's unlikely to win an innocent verdict in the court of public opinion, but winning in court might still change the narrative. If a judge throws out or greatly reduces the penalty because the punishment was grossly inconsistent with precedent, the story might shift from Brady's guilt or innocence to Goodell being incompetent or overreaching. That happened to a large extent in the wake of Tagliabue throwing out the Saints bounty penalties - no one approves of the bounty system New Orleans had in place, but Goodell came out looking worse than Payton or the suspended players. The Patriots already have a built-in villain narrative that New Orleans didn't, but Goodell's image isn't awesome either and a court handing him his lunch is a positive.
 
I think the Spygate debacle shows the danger in accepting an unfair penalty - because that punishment was so over-to-top compared to what the Patriots actually did, accepting the sanctions without a peep created the impression in most people's minds that Belichick must have been guilty of something far worse. If Brady gives up after a failed appeal to Goodell, it will look like Roger has more dirt on Brady or the Patriots.

 

[Average Reds]

Forgive me but I simply don't see any strategic reason for Brady to do something beyond appealing his suspension.

E5 has bingo - maybe there are a few folks out there who may be swayed in Brady's favor but the majority of non-Patriot fans won't buy it even if a court case finds in his favor. So what is the goal, then? Embarrass Goodell? Those same fans know Goodell is a clown and a bad actor but more ill will towards him wont mean more goodwill toward Brady or the Pats.

 
Some things are worth fighting for.  A person's integrity is one of those things.
 
I would add that one of the core reasons used to justify the suspension was the fact that Brady did not turn over his cell phone.  This is a matter of principle to both Brady and the union and he's not going to accept it.  Nor should he.

 

[Average Reds]

I would be very curious to see a poll of the NFL HOF Selection Committee to see what their thoughts are regarding Brady needing an overturn of RG's suspension in regards to their vote come the first time he is eligible.  My gut is he has a stain that can't be washed off regardless, and if that is the case, then get the suspension reduced as much as possible and then its on to SB 50.  Any notion of anti-Patriot fans accepting TB's non involvment is folly..my angst will be any * next to his name or the SB wins because he took a deal..

 
Paul Hornung was banned for a full season for betting on NFL games.  (Along with Alex Karras.)  Yet he's still "the Golden Boy" and was easily elected to the pro football HOF.
 
No matter the outcome of his appeal, this won't be a permanent stain on Brady's record.

 

[nighthob]

That's not his point. God could come down to Earth and declare Brady innocent ... and the NFL fans Dejesus was speaking of would still believe the Patriots and Brady were guilty

So why bother sitting out four games then? If the NFLPA can rout the NFL in court with domestic abusers as clients I think they can handle a case where the "integrity of the game" was compromised by the league office and not Brady and that it's "more probable than not" that no crime occurred in the first place.

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

 
Some things are worth fighting for.  A person's integrity is one of those things.
 
 

Damn right.  If Brady (arguably the greatest player in the history of the sport), believes that his reputation was unfairly destroyed by a league he has helped grow to unprecedented heights, the risk of losing games at the end of the season / playoffs may well be the price that must be paid to get a reversal of the suspension.

 

[Bleedred]

Forgive me but I simply don't see any strategic reason for Brady to do something beyond appealing his suspension.

E5 has bingo - maybe there are a few folks out there who may be swayed in Brady's favor but the majority of non-Patriot fans won't buy it even if a court case finds in his favor. So what is the goal, then? Embarrass Goodell? Those same fans know Goodell is a clown and a bad actor but more ill will towards him wont mean more goodwill toward Brady or the Pats.

On the contrary, if the strategy is to preserve his legacy and show that he was falsely accused in an unsupported charge.   If TB12 cares about his legacy, which I assume he does, then he fights this all the way.  He's won 4 superbowl rings, 3 SB MVPs, 2 NFL MVPs and is arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game.  Moreover, to date, he's been one of the highest character players in the league.  In a moment of calm reflection, he has to think he's done as much for the league than any player in the last 15 years (him and Manning arguably) and the penalty for something he didn't do has to completely gall him (if in fact he didn't do anything).  In that scenario, the risk of a game or two suspension to clearly show that the league was arbitrary and capricious in levying the suspension is well worth it.   

 

[bernardsamuel]

I would advocate (and I would predict this will happen) for Brady to "fight to the death" in regard to the issue of ball-deflation.  He's got three little kids who can either ask him "why did you cheat?" or "why did some bad people falsely accuse you?"  It would, one day down the road, be the first question if he were to cave on the "general awareness" motif and the second when he prevails on that point. 
 
As regards the issue of not cooperating with an investigation, I think he'd accept a fine but would fight a suspension, as there is nothing all that embarrassing about non-cooperation with an investigation that never should have taken place at all.  I do think Goodell will ask him on June 23 "under what conditions would you turn over data which could be discovered by actually lending the cell-phone to an investigator?" and I think that some sort of compromise could be fashioned, though the NFLPA will take a hard line in defending Brady - harder than even Brady might want if he had not engaged the NFLPA to represent him.
 
In the end, I'm guessing that he gets the 50K non-cooperation fine that Favre got, as the fight as regards ball-deflation will have been won, thus degrading the non-cooperation issue to something less significant than "the integrity of the game," namely the powers of the commissioner pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement.  ...and after it's otherwise all over, I think that Mortensen's source will out himself after Mortensen threatens to out him, that Sharks of Vegas will explain what drove them to be so confident about what the Wells findings would be, and that we'll confirm ElCab's posting about the plot twist being that he is McNally to be other than his having pulled our collective legs.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Do people guys really, honestly believe that Tom Brady will be able to salvage his legacy even if the NFLPA prevails, whatever that means, against Goodell?  I do not but perhaps its because I am outside the echo chamber of New England.  Not only do the fans where I live believe Brady cheated but even if they were presented with evidence to the contrary, most will keep thinking he did something wrong.  Again, people will point to the quality of his defense etc rather than looking at the facts and the reason is because to them the facts don't matter - the QB from the big, bad cheating New England Patriots got caught cheating.  And the team got caught doing something untoward again.  This is the narrative and no judicial proceeding will convince a whole swath of people otherwise.
 
Finally, its pretty clear to me at least that the NFL came down hard on the Patriots and Brady for a reason.   They wanted to embarrass both the player and the team and it strikes me that if they felt that strongly then, they aren't likely to relent now.  They had to expect that Brady and the NFLPA would challenge his punishment - there is the aforementioned precedent.  

I know it may be incomprehensible to some but there exists a chance that the NFL can further embarrass Brady, even if they are ultimately exposed for running a sham investigation.   Brady may well take Goodell and the NFL the distance but if he doesn't it may simply be a matter of him cutting his losses from what was, at best for him, a witch-hunt.  
 

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

This is the same guy literally screaming "It's about honor! It's about respect!" before the Super Bowl. People really think that guy is just going to roll over and take it to save 2 games? I just don't see it.

 

[cornwalls@6]

The legacy issue, in my view, is getting far too much play here. We are in the permanent age of polarization. Nobody is universally revered anymore. And from my experience, most opposing fans, aside getting there jabs in on me for the sport of it, think the whole thing is ridiculous. Brady's sole purpose should to be to either have the suspension overturned or significantly reduced, for the on field benefit of him and his team.

 

[nighthob]

Do people guys really, honestly believe that Tom Brady will be able to salvage his legacy even if the NFLPA prevails, whatever that means, against Goodell?  I do not but perhaps its because I am outside the echo chamber of New England.  Not only do the fans where I live believe Brady cheated but even if they were presented with evidence to the contrary, most will keep thinking he did something wrong.  Again, people will point to the quality of his defense etc rather than looking at the facts and the reason is because to them the facts don't matter - the QB from the big, bad cheating New England Patriots got caught cheating.  And the team got caught doing something untoward again.  This is the narrative and no judicial proceeding will convince a whole swath of people otherwise.

Then there's zero reason for Brady to say "Thank you, sir, can I have another." If nothing will ever change anyone's mind ever he may as well just get the suspension tossed and go out and lead the Patriots to another Super Bowl. As an added benefit if the NFL chooses to pursue matters, when the story breaks out of the football public and into the general news, it won't look very good for the league office.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The legacy issue, in my view, is getting far too much play here. We are in the permanent age of polarization. Nobody is universally revered anymore. And from my experience, most opposing fans, aside getting there jabs in on me for the sport of it, think the whole thing is ridiculous. Brady's sole purpose should to be to either have the suspension overturned or significantly reduced, for the on field benefit of him and his team.

 
Thank you.  This articulates my thought process perfectly - I am just too addle-pated to put things so succinctly.

 

[Average Reds]

The legacy issue, in my view, is getting far too much play here. We are in the permanent age of polarization. Nobody is universally revered anymore. And from my experience, most opposing fans, aside getting there jabs in on me for the sport of it, think the whole thing is ridiculous. Brady's sole purpose should to be to either have the suspension overturned or significantly reduced, for the on field benefit of him and his team.

I agree that the legacy issue is getting too much play.

Brady can't change what people think of him. But he can damn well fight to clear his name and let the chips fall where they may.

The man has won 4 Super Bowls and has more money than he can spend. If he thinks he's getting railroaded, why would he ever accept any punishment without exhausting every remedy?

 

 

[Gorton Fisherman]

 
In the book he also has all the Northern hill clans after Jon Snow suggested recruiting them. Those guys are cool and tougher than any Bolton.

Do people guys really, honestly believe that Tom Brady will be able to salvage his legacy even if the NFLPA prevails, whatever that means, against Goodell? 

 
Yes.  I don't think there's any question about it.  FYI I also live "outside the echo chamber of New England".  I think there is a huge chunk of the general population (not necessarily all football fans per se) who were either neutral or somewhat favorably disposed towards Brady before this scandal came along.  He has been a great player, a proven winner, and someone with a sterling reputation up to this point.  His good looks and "aw shucks" public demeanor haven't hurt him either.  If Brady's defense team is able to paint the NFL as a bunch of overzealous pricks who have unfairly accused him of wrongdoing, and he is exonerated by having his suspension completely thrown out, I have little doubt he will be able to recover his reputation and legacy among a large proportion of these people.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

The legacy issue, in my view, is getting far too much play here. We are in the permanent age of polarization. Nobody is universally revered anymore. And from my experience, most opposing fans, aside getting there jabs in on me for the sport of it, think the whole thing is ridiculous. Brady's sole purpose should to be to either have the suspension overturned or significantly reduced, for the on field benefit of him and his team.

 
Imagine, for a second, that Brady is 100 percent not guilty.  That he at no time had a conversation with anyone about deflating balls, and that he had no knowledge whatsoever that anyone ever did anything other than try to set the balls at 12.5.
 
I'm not saying these are facts.  I'm saying, Imagine that they are.  
 
If that's the case, I could completely see him fighting for as long as he has a forum to do so.  Words like "legacy" and "honor" may have something to do with it.  But I think they largely miss the point.  If he is in that position, it is worth continuing to fight for no reason other than being heard and having a neutral person say, in one form or another, "I believe you."  Or "the facts support what you're saying."
 
There doesn't need to be more to it than that.  Will it "clear his name" to have that happen?  Will it preserve his "legacy"?  Is this a matter of "honor"?  I don't know.  He probably doesn't either.  He can't control what other people think..  The truly innocent, who are falsely accused, don't want to go to jail or be punished, sure.  But I think something that greatly motivates them -- in some people almost as much as avoiding punishment -- is vindication.  Even if it's just personal vindication.  Even if the tvs are off when it happnes. Whether anyone else even knows about it, or whether they believe it, is surely something Brady cares about.  But even if he can't have those things, getting a hearing, getting due process, getting truly heard, and being believed is very very important to some people. I don't begrudge Brady a second if this is the place from which he's coming.  Nor do I begrudge him at all if this is more important to him personally than the length of any suspension.

 

[garzooma]

 
This is a really good point, thanks for bringing it up, and first time I've seen it mentioned (doesn't mean it hasn't, just haven't seen it). It also demonstrates how much variance there can be between even one air guage

 
Not only was there variance, but it was variance from an NFL equipment manager, who presumably knows how to work the gauges.
 
That  said, there's something interesting about this particular variance.  It's not just a random spread.  You have two readings within < 1% of each other (11.35 & 11.45), with a third that's somewhat further removed, but showing more inflation, and the two that are close together are also right in the narrow range they should be (between 11.32 and 11.52).  As far as the outlier at 11.75, maybe the guy was leaning on the hand he was using to steady the ball for that measurement.
 
BTW, I've put together a graphic that shows the different readings:

If you were given the Colt's measurements, and then told to draw up a .2 PSI range for what the measurements should be to show no tampering, you'd be hard pressed to come up with something other than what the Wells report said the actual range was.

 

[dcmissle]

This can bleed into Nov or Dec only if TB succeeds in securing a TRO or PI, which is then dissolved by a district court judge mid to late season. While certainly possible, it is unlikely.

If injunctive relief is denied at the outset, you have clarity and he sits the first 4 games. If he wins an injunction, he likely will win on the merits and it will stay in place.

The League can appeal to a federal Circuit Court, but such an appeal will not be expedited or determined before the end of the 2015 season, playoffs included. The League has no risk of irreparable harm in this case.

Also, anyone saying throw in the towel has not paid much attention to the RR or AP appeals.

 

[nighthob]

Yeah, like I said, if the NFLPA can win these cases for domestic abusers, winning one where no offense actually occurred, the "integrity of the game" stuff is actually on the league, and the non-cooperation punishment 40 times worse, in cash terms, than anything that preceded it, should be a breeze for them.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Also, anyone saying throw in the towel has not paid much attention to the RR or AP appeals.

 
 
Plus, if Brady accepts a sanction from the NFL, he has to go 32 games before he becomes a first-time offender again, so he in jeopardy of escalating penalties for another infraction until that occurs.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This can bleed into Nov or Dec only if TB succeeds in securing a TRO or PI, which is then dissolved by a district court judge mid to late season. While certainly possible, it is unlikely.

If injunctive relief is denied at the outset, you have clarity and he sits the first 4 games. If he wins an injunction, he likely will win on the merits and it will stay in place.

The League can appeal to a federal Circuit Court, but such an appeal will not be expedited or determined before the end of the 2015 season, playoffs included. The League has no risk of irreparable harm in this case.

Also, anyone saying throw in the towel has not paid much attention to the RR or AP appeals.

 
To be clear, I was not - and I do not believe anyone else is - suggesting that Brady "throw in the towel".  He should appeal his penalties with the objective of reducing his suspension.  The only issue being debated here is whether how far he should go in the pursuit of trying exonerate himself, or to restore his standing in the public's eye.   

 

[Jimbodandy]

Holy God in Heaven.  Standing in the public's eye?  Who gives a fuck?
 
Appeal the suspension, and take it to court if necessary--so you don't miss any damn games.  The chances of this causing him to lose games anyway, but later in the year, is a calculated, but negligible risk.  Standing up for the right to not take bogus suspensions in stride for no good reason is meaningful to the NFLPA and Brady.  
 
That's not self-immolation for the sake of public outrage, as many advocated for Kraft to do.  That's salvaging playing time for one of the top few players in the world.  This "tarnished legacy" crap is a red herring.

 

[TheoShmeo]

If Brady is truly innocent -- meaning that all he did was make clear he likes balls on the lighter side but never asked for or intended for the ball guys to take them below 12.5 -- then I can see him having a less complicated motivation for fighting this to the finish.
 
"Screw that, I'm innocent.  I am not going to accept a penalty for something I did not do."
 
Many of us have been accused of things we did not do.  The one time that happened to me in a very meaningful way, I know that I saw red and indeed fought to the finish.  That could be what's happening here with Tom Brady.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Holy God in Heaven - the point is BRADY might want to do what he can to clear his legacy - for lack of a better word - if for no other reason than his own personal satisfaction, for his family, his kids, his "good name" or whatever.  While whether or not that's possible is a separate issue, it seems perfectly reasonable, as does whatever potential responsibility he may feel in his role as a leader within the NFLPA.  Who knows, maybe he doesn't feel that way, we'll see, but the story area around being pushed re: his "legacy" isn't by definition some pie-in-the-sky, heart on your sleeve pipe dream that merits breathless mocking from the pretend grown-ups around here.
 
EDIT: left something out

 

[DJnVa]

The legacy issue, in my view, is getting far too much play here. We are in the permanent age of polarization. Nobody is universally revered anymore. And from my experience, most opposing fans, aside getting there jabs in on me for the sport of it, think the whole thing is ridiculous. Brady's sole purpose should to be to either have the suspension overturned or significantly reduced, for the on field benefit of him and his team.

 

People don't operate like that though. I may not care what you think of me, but I still may want to clear my name for me.
 
 
To be a bit absurd, because this whole thing is absurd:
 

 
But I believe I was right sir, I believe I did my job, and I will not dishonor myself, my unit, or the Corps so I can go home in six months... Sir.

 

 
 
Not everyone wants to just plead guilty to make things go away. You, and I, just want him on the field, but it's more to him. It's his name.

 

[Devizier]

Do people guys really, honestly believe that Tom Brady will be able to salvage his legacy even if the NFLPA prevails, whatever that means, against Goodell?  

 
No.
 
But here's the thing; the damage to Tom Brady's legacy is pretty minimal. This was the perfect "scandal" for a whole host of reasons, but perhaps the most important being the low stakes involved. There was no malice, no criminal activity, and no one got hurt. We don't even know if anything happened. It gave a lot of assholes (Brunell, et al.) prime opportunity to grandstand and opposing fans to relish in a little bit of pain inflicted on the Patriots (particularly the lost draft picks). But honestly, no one is pretending that the Patriots didn't win four Superbowls, not even in the completely phony way that we're supposed to pretend that USC didn't win the 2004 national title, or that the last two decades of Tour De France rides never happened. It's all bullshit, of course, but it doesn't really matter in the end. Now on to the next media cycle. In the coming years, this will be largely forgotten. 
 
Now this is small consolation for Tom Brady, who will never have the luxury of taking the long view, but in the grand scheme of things, he will get his recognition, regardless of the outcome of the NFLPA lawsuit.

 

[cornwalls@6]

To be clear, I was not - and I do not believe anyone else is - suggesting that Brady "throw in the towel".  He should appeal his penalties with the objective of reducing his suspension.  The only issue being debated here is whether how far he should go in the pursuit of trying exonerate himself, or to restore his standing in the public's eye.

Agree completely. I also don't think he should throw in the towel. But at some I would be doing a cost/benefit analysis about how far I want to push it. And risking playoff games would be a bridge too far for me. And I would also add, who is he restoring his good name for? Family and friends? I'm sure they all love him anyway, and that this whole affair has zero impact on that. The public? As stated many times already, there is always going to be a large element that despises him and the Patriots. I doubt any of this has, or will have any impact on that one way or another. The media? Other than a few idiots who might not vote for him for the HOF, what real tangible benefit is there to placating them? Ultimately the best way he can shut the world up is to be on the field for as many games as possible this season, playing under what I suspect will be new game day handling of football protocols, and tear it up again.

 

[Average Reds]

Agree completely. I also don't think he should throw in the towel. But at some I would be doing a cost/benefit analysis about how far I want to push it. And risking playoff games would be a bridge too far for me. And I would also add, who is he restoring his good name for? Family and friends? I'm sure they all love him anyway, and that this whole affair has zero impact on that. The public? As stated many times already, there is always going to be a large element that despises him and the Patriots. I doubt any of this has, or will have any impact on that one way or another. The media? Other than a few idiots who might not vote for him for the HOF, what real tangible benefit is there to placating them? Ultimately the best way he can shut the world up is to be on the field for as many games as possible this season, playing under what I suspect will be new game day handling of football protocols, and tear it up again.

 
I guess I just do not understand this viewpoint.  If I were Brady and I were innocent, I'd retire before accepting an unjust suspension. 
 
And I wouldn't care what the media or fans of other teams think about it because I don't control that.

 

[splendid splinter]

I think there's just about no chance that Brady is suspended for any playoff games if this were to drag out and he didn't have the suspension vacated.  Playoff games are obviously far, far more important than regular season games.  Suspending him for those would likely be considered an increased sanction by the NFLPA and they'd probably end up in court again, asking for an injunction preventing the league from suspending him prior to the 2016 season.  And I bet they would win.
 
Also, I think people who think the outcome of his appeal won't affect his legacy are thinking too short term.  Sure, it will likely have minimal impact on fans today.  But once the hot sportz take arguments fade and a generation or two of fans come and go who haven't had their teams' asses kicked by Brady, I think it will make a difference.  When people read the history books 50 years from now, Brady will look better if he's the guy who claimed he was falsely accused by the NFL and cleared his name in court, instead of the guy who was suspended for cheating and just took it.  That will be the overarching narrative down the road if he takes this to the limit and wins.  The details won't even matter.

 

[tedseye]

So one scenario may be that NFLPA obtains an injunction preventing application of any suspension until 2016 season, final resolution of this case, including appeals to federal courts, does not occur until after 2015 playoffs, Brady plays full season and post-season knowing it's his last, then retires (after Super Bowl) with a seigneurial wave to Goodell. Case dismissed as moot.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I guess I just do not understand this viewpoint.  If I were Brady and I were innocent, I'd retire before accepting an unjust suspension. 
 
And I wouldn't care what the media or fans of other teams think about it because I don't control that.

Really? You'd walk away from your lifelong passion, the thing you love doing the most, because you may have to serve, likely a shortened, unjust suspension. I'm honestly not trying to be snarky or pick a fight, and I read and like a lot of your posts, but this seems like grandstanding hyperbole to me. We're all disgusted at the draconian way Goodell has handled this, but he's not going to the gallows. He's maybe missing a couple of football games.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

Really? You'd walk away from your lifelong passion, the thing you love doing the most, because you may have to serve, likely a shortened, unjust suspension. I'm honestly not trying to be snarky or pick a fight, and I read and like a lot of your posts, but this seems like grandstanding hyperbole to me. We're all disgusted at the draconian way Goodell has handled this, but he's not going to the gallows. He's maybe missing a couple of football games.

 
It has been said multiple times in this thread, it is not about how much the punishment can be reduced, it is the admission of guilt that comes with taking a deal that is the issue.
 
Take a more extreme example.  The government accuses you of molesting kids and threatens you with 20 years in jail, but offers you $1,000 fine to make it go away. Would you accept the fine if you were innocent?  The long term impact of accepting the accusation as true is the issue at hand.  It is not about how much of a plea bargain can be had to reduce the punishment. It is about accepting as true an unjust accusation.