#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[tims4wins]

What happened when they went along with Spygate? Oh yeah, unprecedented penalties. That worked out so well.

 

[crystalline]

This logic is flawed. We now know that Goodell is/was going to push this as hard as possible without Brady opening the door by speaking......why would Goodell then close this door that Brady opened? I've heard so many people say this same thing but it doesn't pass the smell test. To believe this is to believe Goodell would then say, "Oh ok thanks Tom just don't let it happen again." C'mon now. This was a vendetta against the Patriots that began prior to the Indianapolis playoff game.

That section you quoted is almost exactly what Brady said at his press conference. (Without assigning blame to the ball boys).

So we don't have to resort to hypotheticals. We know what Goodell would have done differently if Brady said this. Nothing.

 

[riboflav]

What happened when they went along with Spygate? Oh yeah, unprecedented penalties. That worked out so well.

 
Well, in fairness, most people think BB got away with that one thinking he should have been suspended for a year.

 

[JayMags71]

Well, in fairness, most people think BB got away with that one thinking he should have been suspended for a year.

Well, in fairness, most people enjoy Transformers movies. People like stuff they don't have to think about.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

That section you quoted is almost exactly what Brady said at his press conference. (Without assigning blame to the ball boys).

So we don't have to resort to hypotheticals. We know what Goodell would have done differently if Brady said this. Nothing.

And at the time Brady's press conference was widely interpreted as an admission of guilt.

 

[edmunddantes]

And it was done under the impression that 2 psi was missing from balls. Which is much harder for it to happen naturally.

Helps to explain part of his nervousness at that press conference. People just remember the nervousness of the PC not the reasons for it.

 

[djbayko]

I wish the emails between the Pats and NFL was getting more traction nationally, seems like it was totally buried and outside of Pats fans nobody really knows/cares.  I feel like if the general public were to see those exchanges it would change a lot of opinions, the NFL basically telling the Pats to screw off we'll do what we want.  I can't wait for some other teams to get the Roger Goodell joy ride going forward, we can just sit back and say told you so.

This is the wrong attitude IMO. It is what has led us to this position. It is now clear that many teams have been railroaded by the NFL in recent years, yet every time, no one comes out in support. This cycle needs to end. At some point, an owner needs to take the high road and say "You watched us drown when the NFL screwed us last time, but that's okay. We are going to stand by you."

 

[grsharky7]

This is the wrong attitude IMO. It is what has led us to this position. It is now clear that many teams have been railroaded by the NFL in recent years, yet every time, no one comes out in support. This cycle needs to end. At some point, an owner needs to take the high road and say "You watched us drown when the NFL screwed us last time, but that's okay. We are going to stand by you."

 
You're right, I guess I my statement was more directed at the fans of teams (Ravens, Steelers, Jets, Colts) who are reveling in this and no matter what evidence comes out they still yell "cheaters!".  I'm thrilled that the Patriots are fighting back and trying to end this sham of a league administration.  However, I feel like this won't be the straw that breaks the camel's back and this will happen again.   That being said if it does I hope it's to one of those teams and again we can say, "hey you didn't listen when we fought back and you were thrilled the Pats go screwed, enjoy the ride."

 

[crystalline]

This is the wrong attitude IMO. It is what has led us to this position. It is now clear that many teams have been railroaded by the NFL in recent years, yet every time, no one comes out in support. This cycle needs to end. At some point, an owner needs to take the high road and say "You watched us drown when the NFL screwed us last time, but that's okay. We are going to stand by you."

Except it's not owners that have gotten railroaded, it's mostly players.
- Rice: no one from the Ravens was involved
- Peterson: same
- Dolphins/Incognito: only low level coaches were thrown under the bus. Head coach and owner explicitly absolved.
- Saints: players and ex-coach targeted, but Payton suspended too. Ownership absolved. And this was a risky case due to concussion issues.
- Cowboys/Redskins cap collusion: teams punished. However no issue is more important to the other owners than the salary cap and dollars in their pocket. The other owners likely supported this to the hilt.
- Pats: twice docked first round picks.

In the bigger picture of management/labor conflict here, only the Pats and the Saints really have a bone to pick with the NFL. The rest of the penalties act to serve the owners' interests.

 

[edmunddantes]

Still can't believe they got the NFLPA to agree to a fairly crappy CBA and gave up rights to sue in the Redskins/Cowboys case. Perfect example of collusion.

Supposed to be an uncapped year, but NFL punished teams that exceeded a secret cap.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Danny Ainge weighs in on Deflate-gate:
 
https://twitter.com/danielrainge/status/627523692524736512

 

[djbayko]

Except it's not owners that have gotten railroaded, it's mostly players.
- Rice: no one from the Ravens was involved
- Peterson: same
- Dolphins/Incognito: only low level coaches were thrown under the bus. Head coach and owner explicitly absolved.
- Saints: players and ex-coach targeted, but Payton suspended too. Ownership absolved. And this was a risky case due to concussion issues.
- Cowboys/Redskins cap collusion: teams punished. However no issue is more important to the other owners than the salary cap and dollars in their pocket. The other owners likely supported this to the hilt.
- Pats: twice docked first round picks.

In the bigger picture of management/labor conflict here, only the Pats and the Saints really have a bone to pick with the NFL. The rest of the penalties act to serve the owners' interests.

I was more referring to the Cowboys / Washington, Saints, and Pats. Those penalties had an impact on the teams, which in turn should concern the owners.

 

[Super Nomario]

- Saints: players and ex-coach targeted, but Payton suspended too. Ownership absolved. And this was a risky case due to concussion issues.

They took two second-round picks, too, and the Saints only avoided a first because they had already traded their first (to the Pats, for Mark Ingram). And while the concussion issues were risky, the NFL showed disturbing patterns with moving compliance goalposts, unprecedented penalty, and unprecedented standard (Payton was suspended even though there was no evidence he knew anything because he should have known, a standard that no one else has been held to).
 

Still can't believe they got the NFLPA to agree to a fairly crappy CBA and gave up rights to sue in the Redskins/Cowboys case. Perfect example of collusion.

Supposed to be an uncapped year, but NFL punished teams that exceeded a secret cap.

To be fair, those teams didn't just exceed "a secret cap" - they used the uncapped year to give them an edge in the future capped seasons. Miles Austin's contract gave him a cap figure of $17 MM in the uncapped year and an average of about $3 MM in the subsequent three years. They were told in advance not to do this. And lastly, the penalty was reasonable - Dallas was docked $10 MM in cap space, which is basically what the Austin contract would have cost if they'd structured it normally. So there wasn't really a punishment; the league just leveled things out so they didn't get any advantage from what they'd done.
 
I get the "uncapped is uncapped" argument, but I don't think the league went overboard here, certainly not compared to Spygate, Bountygate, and Deflategate.

 

[Harry Hooper]

This logic is flawed. We now know that Goodell is/was going to push this as hard as possible without Brady opening the door by speaking......why would Goodell then close this door that Brady opened? I've heard so many people say this same thing but it doesn't pass the smell test. To believe this is to believe Goodell would then say, "Oh ok thanks Tom just don't let it happen again." C'mon now. This was a vendetta against the Patriots that began prior to the Indianapolis playoff game.

 
 
Exactly! It's the perfect storm of Iago1 (Pash) and Iago2 (Kensil) feeding garbage into the ears of Othello (Goodell) who is already upset with Desdemona (The Pats) over the lack of full supplication on the Spygate outcome and smarting from the Rice fiasco fallout.

 

[crystalline]

They took two second-round picks, too, and the Saints only avoided a first because they had already traded their first (to the Pats, for Mark Ingram). And while the concussion issues were risky, the NFL showed disturbing patterns with moving compliance goalposts, unprecedented penalty, and unprecedented standard (Payton was suspended even though there was no evidence he knew anything because he should have known, a standard that no one else has been held to).
 

I see concussions and CTE as a business-threatening risk. If Goodell said to me,"Look, I had to come down hard on the Saints to protect us from a future multi-billion lawsuit claiming we incentivized head injuries", and I were another owner, I'd take Goodell's side, not the Saints'.

There are two potential sources of owner anger at Goodell: that his punishments are too draconian, and that his ham-handed process exacerbates small issues and makes the league look bad.

We're only talking about the first here: are his punishments draconian enough to anger other owners? And so far, the answer is no. In most cases either players' bad deeds are getting punished (making owners look good), or punishing one team helps other owners' interests.

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

 
 
Exactly! It's the perfect storm of Iago1 (Pash) and Iago2 (Kensil) feeding garbage into the ears of Othello (Goodell) who is already upset with Desdemona (The Pats) over the lack of full supplication on the Spygate outcome and smarting from the Rice fiasco fallout.

Can we just skip to the end when the whitest Othello ever kills himself already.

 

[ipol]

Can we just skip to the end when the whitest Othello ever kills himself already.

After laughing I found this tidbit:
 
http://www.thepsn.org/PSN/playtitle.asp?playid=19

 

[dcmissle]

Splitting my gut waiting for my son at baggage claim over Bernard Pollard's declaration that TB should not have been suspended. One of the nuggets --

"I respect the piss out of him because the guy (TB) knows how to win ..."

Can't link to PFT, but it's there

 

[RoyHobbs]

Splitting my gut waiting for my son at baggage claim over Bernard Pollard's declaration that TB should not have been suspended. One of the nuggets --

"I respect the piss out of him because the guy (TB) knows how to win ..."

Can't link to PFT, but it's there

 
yup, it's good stuff
 
“This dude is a competitor, man"

 

 

[Rook05]

I'm so....confused

 

[MillarTime]

I'm so....confused

Amazing.

 

[djbayko]

@SNFonNBC: Bernard Pollard: I dont like Tom Brady, but he shouldnt be suspended: http://t.co/zb4z7C27Di http://t.co/1tcxNM9Ocw

I do not like Tom Brady as a competitor, somebody thats playing against him because he is a competitive player. I respect the piss out of him because the guy knows how to win. The guy, you can say whatever you want about him, but he is a true champion, Pollard said on SiriusXM NFL Radio.

Pollard says he suspects that other quarterbacks have thrown deflated footballs and just havent been caught, and Pollard doesnt believe a four-game suspension is appropriate.

Do I feel that he should be suspended four games? Im going to tell you, no, he said. This dude is a competitor, man. I dont think he shouldve been suspended for four games. But Im not the commissioner, Im not on that committee that suspended him, and I know hes going to fight tooth and nail like he does on the field to get back on the field with his team.

So close. Beaten by an hour 3 posts above.

 

[Bongorific]

I'm so....confused

Phenomenal.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I don't have a beef with Pollard. Brady doesn't either, he's never blamed him for the knee injury. Just a guy trying to compete. Does anyone really think that Pollard was intending to injure either Brady or Gronk? I sure don't. They changed the rule on the knee hits to cut down the chances of injuries, but that doesn't mean Pollard was trying to injure.

 

[tims4wins]

Pollard was even the closest guy to Welker in Houston in 2009. Just some weird karma

 

[bankshot1]

Even dope smoking hippie freaks are getting it.
 
Not a lot new, but an entertaining read from a national platfrom
 
http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/tom-brady-sympathy-for-the-devil-20150731

 
Tom Brady: Sympathy for the Devil In the wake of 'Deflategate,' turns out all it took was Roger Goodell to make us not hate the man who has it all

 
By Jeb Lund July 31, 2015

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/tom-brady-sympathy-for-the-devil-20150731#ixzz3hbMSjD9b
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

 
The hermetic fantasia of Goodell World – the NFL as it exists within his whimsy – is a force more powerful than time. Time at least has its reason. It is never capricious, it is never hypocritical, it is both knowable and inexorable. The laws of Goodell World are whatever it wants that day, and its crimes are codified as denial of satisfaction. It wants an investigation, and it wants that investigation tasked with confirming its desires, and then, when the investigation does not satisfy it, it wants the absence of evidence to confirm its convictions. It then wants you to know that it has affirmed the goodness of itself via self-agreement. This is how you shall know the NFL and Goodell World: It Is that It Is.

 

 

[dixielandbandana]

Since the emails were released yesterday, there's been a huge shift of opinion on reddit. I know that they aren't representative of the entirety of fans, but there are a lot of rabid anti-pats people there, and lots of them are coming around that the league has grossly mishandled and sandbagged this. More and more people are recognizing how ridiculously Goodell is acting and want it to stop.

 

[drbretto]

Any other non-lawyers think it's fucked up that the judge is do insistent on a settlement before hearing the case at all? Isn't that kind of dismissive of the case? He's basically say "hey, Hey, hold up a minute. I don't know what's going on here, but figure it out for yourselves". The fuck kind of system is this? If they were going to figure it out by themselves they would have already. How about you hear what both sides and make a decision? You know, judge things.

 

[lambeau]

Any other non-lawyers think it's fucked up that the judge is do insistent on a settlement before hearing the case at all? Isn't that kind of dismissive of the case? He's basically say "hey, Hey, hold up a minute. I don't know what's going on here, but figure it out for yourselves". The fuck kind of system is this? If they were going to figure it out by themselves they would have already. How about you hear what both sides and make a decision? You know, judge things.

 
It has been suggested by lawyers that this is not unusual, and may be a good sign in that it signals both should compromise, which is not an endorsement of Goodell's broad authority to rule.
Further, Brady has already expressed a willingness to settle, so who is most likely being told to stop being an asshole?

 

[Van Everyman]

Notwithstanding his argument that Brady should have thrown McNally and DoritoDink under the bus, add Lupica to the White List:

This is exactly what it would be like in baseball if they did things the way they do in the National Football League: Commissioner Rob Manfred would act as judge in an arbitration hearing like Alex Rodriguez's, convict Rodriguez on baseball drugs, suspend him, then be the one to hear Rodriguez's appeal and reject it. What could possibly go wrong with a system like that? Why could anybody possibly think there wasn't real due process in a process like that?

But that is how they do things in the NFL, and that is why we are where we are with Roger Goodell and Tom Brady, on our way to federal court over deflated footballs. Only you should know this stopped being about deflated footballs a long time ago. This is a fight about the collective bargaining agreement in the NFL, the power that DeMaurice Smith and the NFLPA ceded to Goodell, power that Goodell refuses to give up, no matter how much it damages the brand and shield he says he is protecting.

....

Goodell, obsessed as ever with the way things look and the way he looks, pressed forward when he didn't think Brady was being a team player. But now I hope that Brady does in federal court what he's done for one of the great careers in the history of American sports:

I hope he wins.

....

The other day the league got what it wanted, and had people far and wide acting as if that phone was a smoking gun, and Brady had been caught red-handed. It was more like a red herring instead. But it briefly got Goodell an edge in his p.r. war against Brady.

Maybe that's the real brand now at the NFL. Winning that, even though the commissioner is the one who's already lost here, whatever happens in court.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/lupica-goodell-biggest-loser-deflategate-debacle-article-1.2312030?utm_content=bufferd5b13&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=RVacchiano+Twitter

 

[drbretto]

 
It has been suggested by lawyers that this is not unusual, and may be a good sign in that it signals both should compromise, which is not an endorsement of Goodell's broad authority to rule.
Further, Brady has already expressed a willingness to settle, so who is most likely being told to stop being an asshole?

Well, that's why I say 'non-lawyers'. I'm sure it is totally normal for a judge to step in and try to help them settle but the problem I have us a judge pushing so hard for it without having heard anything yet. He doesn't want to waste time om it, sure, so pass it on to someone who does. A settlement just means no one wins.

 

[Koufax]

You have a point, dbetto.  Especially where it isn't just money involved, it's reputation and honor.  Why is a judge pushing someone to compromise on that? 

 

[drbretto]

Right. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally get that that's just not how the law works. I reserve the right to think it stinks, though. I'm a simple guy, I live a relatively simple life. I've been accused of committing a crime I didn't commit so it's easy for me to slip into bradys uggs a little bit here. I can see myself getting fucked over in a similar way, and I tell you,when my case did go to court, if the judge said to me and the accusers to figure it out for ourselves and settle, I'd have been ripshit.

Edit to add: I understand this isn't Brady vs nfl, it's nlfpa vs nfl and it's not about deflated footballs, it's about the process and all that junk. But to me, the rest is just a bunch of useless bullshit.

 

[lambeau]

Right. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally get that that's just not how the law works. I reserve the right to think it stinks, though. I'm a simple guy, I live a relatively simple life. I've been accused of committing a crime I didn't commit so it's easy for me to slip into bradys uggs a little bit here. I can see myself getting fucked over in a similar way, and I tell you,when my case did go to court, if the judge said to me and the accusers to figure it out for ourselves and settle, I'd have been ripshit.

Edit to add: I understand this isn't Brady vs nfl, it's nlfpa vs nfl and it's not about deflated footballs, it's about the process and all that junk. But to me, the rest is just a bunch of useless bullshit.

I'd be very upset if the judge said to Brady take two games and shut up; but I'd be OK with $50,000 for being excessively protective of my text messages--I think Brady could honorably live with that and win SB #5.

 

[Shelterdog]

Well, that's why I say 'non-lawyers'. I'm sure it is totally normal for a judge to step in and try to help them settle but the problem I have us a judge pushing so hard for it without having heard anything yet. He doesn't want to waste time om it, sure, so pass it on to someone who does. A settlement just means no one wins.

 
There are lots of settlements where there pretty clearly is a winner.  

 

[JeffLedbetter]

New Florio: "If anything, Mort’s January appearance on WEEI shows that he wasn’t lied to by one person on one occasion, but by multiple people on multiple occasions, regarding key facts beyond the notion that the Patriots footballs were two pounds under the minimum. It’s also now obvious that his sources were within the league office; who else would be lobbying Mort to “use common sense” by comparing the false information that was being provided to him about the Patriots footballs with false information that was being provided to him about the Colts footballs?"
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/02/in-january-mort-told-weei-he-reconfirmed-psi-info/

 

[DJnVa]

Guess who wrote this line (about Brady's union ties?)
 
"He’s taken under-market contracts throughout his career, which is damaging to the union cause."

 
Except that it allows other players to earn more. Which is not damaging.

 

[ivanvamp]

I so want Berman to pay close attention to that kind of thing. Great job again by Florio.

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
Except that it allows other players to earn more. Which is not damaging.

Won't someone think of all the under paid QB's!

 

[DJnVa]

New Florio: "If anything, Mort’s January appearance on WEEI shows that he wasn’t lied to by one person on one occasion, but by multiple people on multiple occasions, regarding key facts beyond the notion that the Patriots footballs were two pounds under the minimum. It’s also now obvious that his sources were within the league office; who else would be lobbying Mort to “use common sense” by comparing the false information that was being provided to him about the Patriots footballs with false information that was being provided to him about the Colts footballs?"
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/02/in-january-mort-told-weei-he-reconfirmed-psi-info/

 
 
Just read that article. Mort's common sense rating is a 0 on a scale 0-100.
 
The NFL appealed to his vanity and ego and he bought it. What a tool.

 

[ivanvamp]

I wonder how he feels these days about all this. He looks like a complete fool. He had to be absolutely seething. Professionally he's in a tough spot. High level NFL officials give him juicy leaks. But now he knows they are perfectly willing to feed him false information when they have an agenda. He doesn't want to burn them and maybe ruin his career, but he can no longer trust them.

What is he to do?

So far it appears he's taking the "I'm just gonna pretend this never happened" route.

 

[canvass ali]

 
 
Just read that article. Mort's common sense rating is a 0 on a scale 0-100.
 
The NFL appealed to his vanity and ego and he bought it. What a tool.

 
Truly.  The guy had been deceived less than a year earlier, probably by the same people, regarding the Ray Rice video.  But hey, they'd never do that twice, right? 

 

[luqin]

Saw this on reddit, Mike Kensil has been removed from the NFL operations website.

 

[bankshot1]

I so want Berman to pay close attention to that kind of thing. Great job again by Florio.

 
Hopefully if Berman is a sports fan, he's enjoying his Sunday morning coffee and bagel and Lupica column.

 

[mwonow]

Saw this on reddit, Mike Kensil has been removed from the NFL operations website.

 
Nice post, rational comments...weird, in light of all the other coverage!

 

[riboflav]

Saw this on reddit, Mike Kensil has been removed from the NFL operations website.

 
It wouldn't really make sense at this point for the NFL to even tacitly admit that Kensil played a nefarious role in this mess.

 

[LuckyBen]

Saw this on reddit, Mike Kensil has been removed from the NFL operations website.

That really is great. Is there any chance that Kensil is a dumbass and didn't know the legal limits of ball inflation (like he obviously didn't know that air pressure changes due to weather). Something along the lines of him asking what is legal and someone telling him, I think 13.5. He seems vindictive, but it just seems like an idiotic thing to lie about that could effect his job status.

 

[mostman]

Follow on comments seem to indicate he was never there to begin with.

 

[Gambler7]

I found this interesting:
http://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/

The NFL pays meticulous attention to every detail that goes into putting on a professional football game

 Game Operations staff attend many games in person. Mike Kensil, vice president of Game Operations, said he attends 45 to 50 games a year from the preseason through the Super Bowl, checking everything from field conditions and communications equipment to game security and the coach’s box (which must have two TV monitors for each team) before game time.“Certain [visiting] teams feel better when you’re there,” especially for heated rivalries, Kensil said. “They just see you there and realize nobody’s really going to try to take advantage of any of the rules.” And if he is aware of a team prone to misbehavior — like misusing the public address system to create artificial noise — he might make his presence known before the game.

The NFL takes infractions of Game Operations rules seriously — so much so thatclubs risk fines as high as $500,000 for violations “affecting the competitive aspects of the game.” Some violations, such as late arrival for kickoff, can result in yardage penalties, and failure to comply with a uniform policy can result in a player’s temporary removal from the game.
 

 
Stephanie Stradley also had a great post on reddit (scroll to bottom):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/3f6w3e/stephanie_stradley_deflategate_legal_questions_faq/
 

I can't think of any of sports league that is so reactive and random on how they handle this bleep. Goodell treats all alleged allegations like the player did disrespectful things to his female family members. Like it's personal. Other leagues just take care of business. Quick. Done.
 

 

 

[garzooma]

New Florio: "If anything, Mort’s January appearance on WEEI shows that he wasn’t lied to by one person on one occasion, but by multiple people on multiple occasions, regarding key facts beyond the notion that the Patriots footballs were two pounds under the minimum. It’s also now obvious that his sources were within the league office; who else would be lobbying Mort to “use common sense” by comparing the false information that was being provided to him about the Patriots footballs with false information that was being provided to him about the Colts footballs?"
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/02/in-january-mort-told-weei-he-reconfirmed-psi-info/

 
More from the article:

 
 
Mortensen said. ‘One team’s footballs, basically all of them were underinflated. The other team’s footballs — they like them on the low end, too, by the way, the Colts — were all within regulation.[...]'

The shear number of lies in this one small blurb is breathtaking:

1. One team's footballs weren't all underinflated
2. The other team's footballs weren't even all tested
3. The other teams' footballs weren't all within regulation
4. They didn't like them on the low end

Not to mention the 2 PSI under thing.
 
No-good
F**king
Liars