1. This is nice work by Reiss.jacklamabe65 said:
2. But, if we have learned nothing these past several months, it is that there is an implicit "... unless I, Roger Goodell, declare otherwise" after every rule and bylaw.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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2. But, if we have learned nothing these past several months, it is that there is an implicit "... unless I, Roger Goodell, declare otherwise" after every rule and bylaw.
Whatever it is just in the bylaws, no one has ever taken that rule seriously, it's more of a guideline... psi, that is.
jacklamabe65 said:
The league already tried shooting this down saying something about how it happens all the time, rule is interpreted differently, blah blah blah
Sorry if I have missed this but, what is the status of Jastremski & McNally these days? Are they still suspended? Didn't the NFL ask for that and the Pats did it as a sort of olive branch? I know it was discovered that they were doing some other suspect things i.e. stealing equipment. I am surprised that they have not been heard from anymore.
Also, who was it that the Patriots denied Wells interviewing again and what was the ultimate reasoning behind that? Thanks
Also, who was it that the Patriots denied Wells interviewing again and what was the ultimate reasoning behind that? Thanks
Awesome, so League officials, with extensive historical ties to a division rival of the game-team with animosity towards its head coach, being allowed into the officiating room has less effect on the integrity of the game than a minor under inflation of footballs, if that even happened, whereas we know Kensil was in the referee's locker room.LMontro said:
Volin starts his march towards the light
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/03/nfl-has-been-out-bounds-its-dealings-with-patriots/HHtWxFIPm8hSa8RVAAtToL/story.html
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/03/nfl-has-been-out-bounds-its-dealings-with-patriots/HHtWxFIPm8hSa8RVAAtToL/story.html
Ben Volin puts some blame on the NFL and the Pats this morning. The headline suggests he's going after the NFL exclusively but that is not the case.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/03/nfl-has-been-out-bounds-its-dealings-with-patriots/HHtWxFIPm8hSa8RVAAtToL/story.html
What's interesting to me is that
- Now, after a trend is starting to build along the lines that the NFL rail roaded Tom, do we first get any hint of objectivity from Volin.
- All of the Globe writers seem more concerned with avoiding looking like a Pats toadie than being bold enough to put out an article like Sally Jenkins' series on this story.
- Volin tells us he assumes the Pats did something wrong and that Brady indeed was generally aware of the same without giving us the basis for his opinion.
- Volin argues that the Pats should have pinned it on the two stooges based, it seems, on some bad texts. Again, he gives us precious little basis for doing that and doesn't entertain the notion that they thought the two were innocent of trying to go below the legal limit.
Edit: Shoot, I looked and simply missed that Bankshot1 had already linked the article. I will leave the link and let a mod delete it as necessary.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/03/nfl-has-been-out-bounds-its-dealings-with-patriots/HHtWxFIPm8hSa8RVAAtToL/story.html
What's interesting to me is that
- Now, after a trend is starting to build along the lines that the NFL rail roaded Tom, do we first get any hint of objectivity from Volin.
- All of the Globe writers seem more concerned with avoiding looking like a Pats toadie than being bold enough to put out an article like Sally Jenkins' series on this story.
- Volin tells us he assumes the Pats did something wrong and that Brady indeed was generally aware of the same without giving us the basis for his opinion.
- Volin argues that the Pats should have pinned it on the two stooges based, it seems, on some bad texts. Again, he gives us precious little basis for doing that and doesn't entertain the notion that they thought the two were innocent of trying to go below the legal limit.
Edit: Shoot, I looked and simply missed that Bankshot1 had already linked the article. I will leave the link and let a mod delete it as necessary.
bankshot1 said:
But he says Brady deserves a one game suspension and a fine for non cooperation. And that's bunk because the precedent has been set for non cooperation and a game suspension has never been the penalty.
Despite already having been provided with factually incorrect information (re Doty: he wont hear case because senior district judges don't take cases), Volin quoted the useless, always-wrong and thoroughly discredited "legal expert" Lester Munson again on Sunday. If Volin tells me its Tuesday, I'm getting it confirmed by another source.
FWIW: I don't think Volin is in the bag for the NFL; or has it in for the Patriots like, say Borges. I just don't think he's terribly good at his job, even though it appears he works reasonably hard.
FWIW: I don't think Volin is in the bag for the NFL; or has it in for the Patriots like, say Borges. I just don't think he's terribly good at his job, even though it appears he works reasonably hard.
I agree that he's not a hater. And he might just indeed think in his gut that the Pats did something wrong here. A lot of people seem to share that view. That said, I can't help but think that he tries very hard to avoid being tagged as a Pats cheerleader and has his eyes on a national job.joe dokes said:
And you're right. He's just not that good. When was the last time Volin shared a football insight that you did not already know? A comparison of his Wednesday analytical pieces with Bedard's such pieces is extremely unflattering. Bedard applied appreciably more rigor to the task and, unlike Volin, dropped some real insight on us almost every time out.
I casually know a beat reporter for another Boston sport that was 100% sure that the footballs were screwed with and Brady was involved. It was more from an understanding of the level of involvement Brady has in everything and how irate he was with prior inflation issues. That was apparently a general consensus among many of the Boston based sports media guys. The problem with Volin is he's still working from the same knee jerk position "of course they did it" and refuses to do any critical thinking on the issue. The NFL may have "caught" them the one time they actually didn't do anything. If he had the balls, he'd just come out and say why he's more or less sticking to the idea Brady and the Pats are guilty.TheoShmeo said:
Agreed. His "guilty" reasoning for Brady captured in this paragragh is beyond weak,johnmd20 said:
If Needle Dumb and Needle-Dee did something illegal a Pats penalty could be warranted. But defending yourself from charges is not a crime.
IMO he's doing a modified back-track based on the damning e-mail exchange and the obvious conclusion that the NFL wanted to frame the Pats in a damning light. And he doesn't want to be the last guy on the short bus. The question to now address for knuckleheads like Volin is why? And that leads them to Roger and his power play.
bankshot1 said:
Re: bold - there will always be others on that bus. Sure, you might not find Tomase, Mort and SAS to be ideal bridge partners, but you won't be playing solitaire.
Re: italic - not much hope for that. If Volin were capable of that level of thought, he would have hopped on a different train months ago. The fact that he's still "beyond weak" on this shows that he's...well, "beyond weak" in basic skills like critical thinking and expository writing.
Again agreed. The point was there is now a glaringly obvious bright light that is just about impossible to ignore, even for the "flat-earth society".mwonow said:
Sadly I do not think it will make a bit of difference when the legal decision comes down.
Volin also came from the Dolphins beat and undoubtedly heard from players, coaches, and executives during his time there that the Patriots are obviously cheating cheaters who cheat. He is likely still in contact with a lot of those sources. His perspective is going to be a lot more negative towards the Pats than Mike Reiss'. I don't see Volin as a Borges- / Shank- level hack; I think his perspective means he is pretty close to the pulse of the "average" national NFL fan.joe dokes said:
RIFan said:
A bunch of lazy guys sitting around extrapolating from their limited knowledge of a player what must have happened in a specific situation and using each other's opinions as confirming evidence is exactly why few thinking fans read any of the Boston beat writers...
DeflateGate has forced people like Volin— who don't like to think— to think about science, labor relations, scorched-earth PR tactics, and other things that are unfun to contemplate as an ordinary NFL fan. The knee-jerk response is to conclude, 'both sides must be responsible for this travesty'— it simply induces a lot less cognitive dissonance than 'NFL hatchet-job conspiracy'. In that sense, I agree that Volin is a close proxy for the average NFL fan, as someone above suggested.
EDIT: apologies for accidentally defaming bankshot1
m0ckduck said:
It's the same for guys like Francesa. Obviously he has a major case of Pats' hate, but still, when this was fairly early on, whenever a caller would come in and try to explain the ideal gas law, even in layman's terms, he would simply shout them down with something like this:
"Don't tell me about the science. The Pats' balls were under inflated. The Colts' weren't. If science tells you the Pats' balls should be deflated, explain how the Colts' weren't. Gimme a break. There's a lot we don't know about this. But what we DO know is that the footballs were tampered with. It's obvious to anyone who looks at this."
Just FTR, it appears that I'm advocating Pat's guilt in your quote of mine, when in fact the words are Volins, and I characterized his rationale as "weak". IMO Volin has been beyond lazy and unthinking in his approach to DFG.m0ckduck said:
edit
heh
thanks for the edit-I've called off the lawyers.
Can you imagine if the media had dubbed this "UnderPressureGate"? How many texts would have surfaced between people going back to the beginning of the B/B era about being under all sorts of pressure. It wouldn't just be a smoking gun, it would be a smoking cache of weapons.
There seems to be a great divide between Patriots fans and I'm curious where most folks stand.
It seems many fans feel the Patriots have not done anything wrong. This is also the team, Tom Brady and Bob Kraft's stance.
It also seems other fans feel the Patriots did something wrong here but it's not a huge deal and the punishment is way out of wack. This is the Charley Pierce stance.
I think nationally (non-Pats fans like myself) feel the 3rd option is the best in that they got punished for something they shouldn't have done.
But I'm curious where this place stands.
It seems many fans feel the Patriots have not done anything wrong. This is also the team, Tom Brady and Bob Kraft's stance.
It also seems other fans feel the Patriots did something wrong here but it's not a huge deal and the punishment is way out of wack. This is the Charley Pierce stance.
I think nationally (non-Pats fans like myself) feel the 3rd option is the best in that they got punished for something they shouldn't have done.
But I'm curious where this place stands.
Just as a heads up. Someone edited the 3rd choice in the poll. I don't hate the re-wording but that's not cool.
Of course the Patriots have done *something* wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if they've bent the rules, broken them, or flat-out cheated any number of different ways. Then again, I think this of every team in the NFL.
If the question is whether I think the Patriots were engaged in an illegal ball-deflation scheme, the answer is no, and I defy anyone to put forth any actual evidence that they have.
If the question is whether I think the Patriots were engaged in an illegal ball-deflation scheme, the answer is no, and I defy anyone to put forth any actual evidence that they have.
How about a Maybe/IDK-not enough evidence choice?
or perhaps the more germane: Did Brady order the Code Red?, as a 2nd question.
or perhaps the more germane: Did Brady order the Code Red?, as a 2nd question.
bankshot1 said:
You don't have to vote. If you're not sure yet, that's OK. The world will still carry on without your opinion.
SeanBerry said:
I was just about to announce it. I did it because the third option wasn't sufficiently precise and there was too much vagueness between option two and option three.
When it was this:
option three was a bit of a red herring because someone can agree with both options 2 and 3. Insofar as this is an important distinction for many of the people here, I thought it worth doing.
Basically, I figured the vague overlap would be more likely to lead to this thread becoming a shit storm, so I edited it to save your thread from being locked; the thread only works if that key distinction is allowed, otherwise the conversation will become shitty.
ivanvamp said:
That clearly was not the question. The question was right above the poll.
"Were the balls tampered with?"
I honestly don't know if the two gameday employees did anything with the footballs. The punishment is preposterous and there is zero evidence that Tom Brady did anything punishable. Anyone who thinks the punishment is appropriate is either not following along or a fan of a team that can't beat the Pats on the field so takes their victories wherever they can get them.
SeanBerry said:
So it's his fault your poll doesn't have the appropriate options?
If we're only going to have one poll on this matter, can we please delete this dumpster fire and have someone who knows what they are doing write the questions? It's been 15 minutes, it's not too late.
I think we would all agree that if something did happen, it was along the lines of this: Brady tells JJ he wants balls at 12.5. JM gets balls from official. They feel maybe a touch too hard. JM takes a tiny bit of air out of each ball
in the bathroom just to be safe. No scheme or plan to get balls below 12.5. JM did it hastily in bathroom which is partly why psi readings were all over thr map. Brady not aware at all of this because he trusts ball guys to let officials know how he wants the balls and the rest is out of his hands.
Personally I don't even believe that happened but I wouldn't be shocked if it did. But I highly doubt it was anything beyond that.
in the bathroom just to be safe. No scheme or plan to get balls below 12.5. JM did it hastily in bathroom which is partly why psi readings were all over thr map. Brady not aware at all of this because he trusts ball guys to let officials know how he wants the balls and the rest is out of his hands.
Personally I don't even believe that happened but I wouldn't be shocked if it did. But I highly doubt it was anything beyond that.
SeanBerry said:
Wait, you honestly believe that "we're not sure what happened" is the same as "I have no opinion"?
amarshal2 said:
Sure. So long as it does include what SeanBerry is asking here and doesn't avoid that issue. But if somebody wanted to parse out more questions to refine our understanding of what the posters here believe, that should be fine.
Basically, it would have to be something that adds to this, not just replaces it with something people find more congenial.
I'm sure it will.SeanBerry said:
And SoSH will go on with a shitty poll.
Given the choices I voted "no"