#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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Stephen Brown @PPVSRB 2m2 minutes agoNew York, USA
But Kessler concedes Brady should have conducted himself differently with Wells.
Stephen Brown @PPVSRB 1m1 minute agoNew York, USA
Kessler has moment of clarity: Calls this "the most overblown issue" he's ever dealt with in his career.
But Kessler concedes Brady should have conducted himself differently with Wells.
Stephen Brown @PPVSRB 1m1 minute agoNew York, USA
Kessler has moment of clarity: Calls this "the most overblown issue" he's ever dealt with in his career.
This is great, that he's taking extensive argument in open court. Good for Berman. If there is any hope for getting Brady's reputation back, it is through this kind of give and take and cross examination. Cross examination is the greatest legal engine ever invented for the discovery of truth, etc. And here, the lawyers themselves need to be examined...
I hope he does take discovery.
I hope he does take discovery.
H78 said:
The reason we have arbitrations (and let Roger get away with the NFL kangaroo court) is precisely because we want private parties to resolve disputes through arbitration rather than have the whole thing play out in court.
H78 said:
At my 7 year old nephew-to-be's birthday party in Eagles territory the other day cheating was brought up in some unrelated context, and the kid said something along the lines.of "well I know there was cheating with inflated balls (obviously short on detail but he's aware of it)." Like, why the fuck is this a thing?
wutang112878 said:
Necessary. If the NFL's only evidence tying Brady to the consipiracy is the "inference" of him refusing to produce texts, then Brady needs a good reason for declining -- the privacy and advice of counsel. Berman will be sympathetic about invoking a right on the advice of counsel.
Kessler does concede that Brady should have comported himself differently with Wells.
Not sure where that takes us.
Not sure where that takes us.
I wish Kessler would get on with the science instead of talking about how overblown he thinks this is.
Corsi said:
Please tell me that Berman at least acknowledges this, that would be very telling
Stephen Brown @PPVSRB 30s30 seconds agoNew York, USA
Best Kessler quote: "Maybe if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a trolleycar!"
Best Kessler quote: "Maybe if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a trolleycar!"
Otis Foster said:
Perhaps letting the NFL BS speak for itself while also appearing to be the more reasonable side?
ElcaballitoMVP said:
We don't know how Berman is conducting this. Kessler just can't spout whatever he wants whenever he wants. There'll be a proper time for him to bring up the science component of this mess.
ilol@u said:
If I can infer from what the lawyers are in the thread are saying that this is Kessler reading the judge and not setting the theoretical settlement process on fire and it's probably the best tact to take with Berman.
Stephen Brown @PPVSRB 1m1 minute agoNew York, USAsimplyeric said:
(He was making a point about the Wells Report being a fishing expedition.)
Ed Hillel said:
Not if Yee is able to be thrown under the bus and this doesnt reflect poorly on Brady himself in court. In that case Yee probably helped because clearly this thing is a witch hunt and the less evidence they provided the better for Brady.
wutang112878 said:
This is a feel thing though and we have no sense of that without hearing the tone of comments. If Berman is insinuating that he thinks its ridiculous this is even in his court, and he's pointing out that putting aside the 'deflated' football that the NFL has gone too far, then its advantage Brady so Kessler might just be playing up to that.
Stephen Brown @PPVSRB 5s5 seconds agoNew York, USA
Court is adjourned. Not clear if there is going to be anything more on the record.
Court is adjourned. Not clear if there is going to be anything more on the record.
The key to oral advocacy is not getting stuck into trying to win every battle, but instead in trying to decide what battles you need to win to win the war.
This war, so far, is being fought on the the battlefield Brady wants not on the field the NFL wants.
This war, so far, is being fought on the the battlefield Brady wants not on the field the NFL wants.
No. You take what the judge (or the pass defense) is giving you.ilol@u said:
It's not time to take a shot down the field to Tyms on 3rd and 4 when you can move the chains with dink and dunk. If the Brady era has taught us anything, it's that.
Corsi said:
Just trying to make sense of all of Brown's tidbits, it really sounds like today was advantage Brady.
To me this sounds like posturing in a settlement hearing, but IANAL. "Your honor, our client didn't comport himself appropriately with Mr Wells, but he felt like he was being railroaded by the NFL. He brought in private counsel, who admittedly advised him poorly. You can clearly see there was no evidence that Mr Brady was a part of any conspiracy, but the facts are he did not cooperate with Mr Wells. We are trying to acknowledge that and settle on the basis of the facts. The NFL was incorrect in its assumption of Me Brady's guilt, but was correct that Mr Brady did not cooperate as extensively as he could have. We will accept the NFL's standard for non cooperation as a penalty, but cannot abide receiving punishment for something Mr Brady did not participate in".BroodsSexton said:
I imagine if they're in full blown court Kessler will present a more robust case.
Sounds to me like Berman wants the NFL to move off of whatever they are offering in settlement and Kessler is positioning an offer of "Hey, Tom isn't going to admit wrongdoing with footballs, but he will say he made a mistake with how he dealt with Wells and pay a substantially larger fine than others have paid for the same offense"
Shelterdog said:
I understand and appreciate the reasons we have this in place. It's a shame that in this particular instance we have to rely on that system.
Deflated footballs. No proof of any wrongdoing. Scientific evidence proves that deflation is, in fact, expected. One side decides none of that matters, so it just singles out one of the greatest players of all time to make an example out of them in what's really just a power move. End result? Let's takes this to court.
Depressing. If Tom Brady doesn't deserve to be celebrated for what he's accomplished and, more importantly, represented over the last 15 years, who does?
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw 7s7 seconds ago
Michael McCann retweeted Stephen Brown
If today was the 1st quarter in Tom Brady v. NFL, Brady might actually get some rest in the 4th. A good day for him.
Michael McCann retweeted Stephen Brown
If today was the 1st quarter in Tom Brady v. NFL, Brady might actually get some rest in the 4th. A good day for him.
wutang112878 said:
Asks the NFL wtf their evidence is, and asks Kessler why texts weren't provided. I'll take that exchange any day.
The concession gives the judge a logical place to split the baby if he is so inclined, too.Stitch01 said:
Well, from the transcripts it seems Berman was a little more skeptical of the NFL's case than Brady's. The fact that he was so willing to dig into the facts surrounding the matter is encouraging, but that won't be the deciding factor in this case.
H78 said:
I think what you are really saying is that you are upset that Roger is such an awful human being. Forget about the sport, labor courts exist to hopefully stop injustice and I think we all feel there was injustice here. Whats brought us here is the lengths to which the NFL/Rog has decided to go to push this injustice.
All in all, it seems like team Brady did well today. I'm still worried the judge will defer to the arbitrator because of the CBA, but it was promising to see some of the questions the judge was asking today.
I imagine the NFL isn't happy with how things went today, so we should see an "NFL sources tell me" tweet from Mort in 3...2...1...
I imagine the NFL isn't happy with how things went today, so we should see an "NFL sources tell me" tweet from Mort in 3...2...1...
He can work into the remand ruling that Goodell is free to punish Brady for non-cooperation, in line with the CBA and law of the shop and reasonable precedent, but can't use the noncooperation to bootstrap the underlying offense.JerBear said:
But thanks, though.
Mooch said:
The process through which Goodell came up with the suspension wasn't really discussed, and that's the meat and potatoes of this case. It's entirely plausible that Berman concedes that the link between Brady and an eventual scheme to deflate footballs is tenuous at best, but still defers to the NFL's decision.
I voted "Other".
Here's my thinking. We know that Judge Berman is pushing hard for a settlement; it's unclear whether this is standard procedure for him or something unusual. Suppose this is unusual for him. Why would he be pushing so hard?
Obviously he's seen enough of the issue to have a general sense of how we'd rule. So I think it's because he expects his ruling to be bad for both parties. What do both sides want more than anything else? For this thing to be over.
So that suggests Judge Bernan is thinking something like vacating the Goodell decision on very narrow technical grounds and remanding the case back for yet another hearing -- basically putting the ball back in Goodell's court to do this all over again. No real finality of any kind.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me that this case isn't going to resolve any time soon no matter how much everyone wants it to be.
Here's my thinking. We know that Judge Berman is pushing hard for a settlement; it's unclear whether this is standard procedure for him or something unusual. Suppose this is unusual for him. Why would he be pushing so hard?
Obviously he's seen enough of the issue to have a general sense of how we'd rule. So I think it's because he expects his ruling to be bad for both parties. What do both sides want more than anything else? For this thing to be over.
So that suggests Judge Bernan is thinking something like vacating the Goodell decision on very narrow technical grounds and remanding the case back for yet another hearing -- basically putting the ball back in Goodell's court to do this all over again. No real finality of any kind.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me that this case isn't going to resolve any time soon no matter how much everyone wants it to be.
Earlier McCann tweets
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
NFL's argument seems to be: the evidence doesn't matter, it's whether we could punish Brady. Does that convince you?
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
Judge Berman seems to be saying, I get that the legal Q is about process, but you need to convince me Brady actually did something wrong.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
Judge Berman asks same question that has confounded all of us for months: What the heck does "generally aware" mean?
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
NFL's argument seems to be: the evidence doesn't matter, it's whether we could punish Brady. Does that convince you?
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
Judge Berman seems to be saying, I get that the legal Q is about process, but you need to convince me Brady actually did something wrong.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
Judge Berman asks same question that has confounded all of us for months: What the heck does "generally aware" mean?
Honestly, you're going to have a better chance counting cards in blackjack at a casino that shuffles 8 decks electronically than parsing a judge's questions for potential clues as to his final decision.
He can do more than that but more importantly he can tell the NFL that they should take the fucking offer or it's on to discovery where the NFLPA is going to get to explore every NFL-Paul Weiss communication about the case.JerBear said: