#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[garzooma]

Does anyone else have a hunch that Kraft is going to bonkers on the NFL if the Judge vacates tomorrow? Sort of a big fuck you to the league. 

 

Expecting Kraft to go "bonkers on the NFL" if Brady wins is not realistic. These are his business partners.
 

 
On the other hand, if the ruling highlights the lack of independence in the Wells Report, it's kind of a big deal.  Goodell promised an independent report.  To then have him deliver the complete opposite of that has to make Kraft wonder what kind of business partners he has.

 

[Average Reds]

Kraft has known the nature of the report from the beginning, which is why the team created the "context" web site. Can't imagine that this would make Kraft go bonkers.

 

[garzooma]

Kraft has known the nature of the report from the beginning, which is why the team created the "context" web site. Can't imagine that this would make Kraft go bonkers.

Fair enough.  But having a Federal Court judge state the nature of the report is a good deal more significant than a web site doing it.  If it happens, Kraft will have a good deal more ammunition if he chooses to use it.  I also don't think going bonkers is necessarily what he'd do, but let's wait and see what the ruling says before speculating on his options.

 

[Van Everyman]

I would expect that if Brady wins that the team will issue some kind of statement essentially rehashing that this investigation never had any solid evidence and that the judge validated the team's support for Brady by affirming its belief that the punishment was unfair and way over the top. They will probably also go heavy on talking about putting this whole ordeal behind them so they can focus on defending their Super Bowl title.

Revenge being a dish best served cold and all.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

It's a good bet they will also reiterate that no one ever did anything wrong to begin with.

 

[Average Reds]

Agree with both of the last two points. If this is decided I'm Brady's favor, Kraft/ the team will be dignified in their response.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I just shelled out some money for opening night. If Berman rules against Brady can I sue him for Tortious interference of banner raising?

 

[Bergs]

I just shelled out some money for opening night. If Berman rules against Brady can I sue him for Tortious interference of banner raising?

Of course. Also, defamation.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I agree with Denny that if the settlement rumor is true, that points more toward a finding favorable to the NFL.

For the League to make that offer-they must be extremely confident that the CBA trumps the NFLPA's 4 points and that any judge would need to acknowledge that.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I agree with Denny that if the settlement rumor is true, that points more toward a finding favorable to the NFL.

For the League to make that offer-they must be extremely confident that the CBA trumps the NFLPA's 4 points and that any judge would need to acknowledge that.

 
Maybe not Berman but confident the inevitable appeal will go the NFL's way?

 

[Reverend]

 
Oooh, next poll. I'm going ... December 15th, 2015.

 
I like the cut of your jib.

 

[amarshal2]

I agree with Denny that if the settlement rumor is true, that points more toward a finding favorable to the NFL.

For the League to make that offer-they must be extremely confident that the CBA trumps the NFLPA's 4 points and that any judge would need to acknowledge that.

Not necessarily. There's plenty of reason Goodell would prefer loss in court to a settlement. There's a decent chance he'll be able to save face in a loss by pushing the narrative that Brady was guilty but won on procedural technicalities. This keeps him far away from admitting any flaw in his process. Additionally, it's less likely that any win for the nflpa will have some sort of sweeping effect on the cba or punishment process going forward. More likely he loses on notice, where he's probably already lost with AP, and maybe loses on fairness regarding the Pash stuff - a one time thing. He probably wins on evident partiality and retains ability to be arbitrator without major risk of losing on appeal next time around.

I think the fact that they are reportedly requiring an admission of guilt is a point towards this all coming back to the league office/RG trying to maintain their image as tough on competitive integrity and save face on their process.

Here's hoping they bet wrong and get thoroughly embarrassed in a sweeping victory for the nflpa that thoroughly embarrasses the NFL. Even ESPN will have to cover Bermans scathing commentary and findings. I'm talking a second Super Bowl victory in September. Brady probably gets the truck by default as a QB but again he should turn it over, this time to a wily vet named Kessler.

 

[Reverend]

I agree with Denny that if the settlement rumor is true, that points more toward a finding favorable to the NFL.

For the League to make that offer-they must be extremely confident that the CBA trumps the NFLPA's 4 points and that any judge would need to acknowledge that.

 
No. I mean, not necessarily.
 
You're thinking like a human being and assuming that the agents of the NFL are as well. But the point is, they are not, and should not be thinking as human beings, for they are representing an institution.
 
The mistake is to not realize that the NFL is a repeat player--they expect to be here again dealing with similar stuff. As such, it's more important for them to make plays to invest in rule changes that favor them in the future.
 
Individuals who don't expect to be in court a lot over these kinds of issues don't think that way. They think of the single shot outcome they want.
 
It's a totally different orientation. And it's also one of the reasons for having a union (whether you agree or disagree with the concept)--someone to think about the investment in the rules going forward.
 
But applying common sense, individual style reasoning to an institutional repeat-player is a fool's errand, as their incentives are very different.
 
And that's without even getting into the PR stuff.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Fair enough.  But having a Federal Court judge state the nature of the report is a good deal more significant than a web site doing it.  If it happens, Kraft will have a good deal more ammunition if he chooses to use it.  I also don't think going bonkers is necessarily what he'd do, but let's wait and see what the ruling says before speculating on his options.

Shut the fuck up.

Defending Kraft "going bonkers", and then telling people to take a wait and see approach on a ruling before we speculate more on how Kraft may or may not go postal is a fine mix of being too serious and being too stupid.

Kraft's not "going bonkers". That battle is lost. If you want to waste bandwidth, start another thread about it.

 

[johnmd20]

Shut the fuck up.

Defending Kraft "going bonkers", and then telling people to take a wait and see approach on a ruling before we speculate more on how Kraft may or may not go postal is a fine mix of being too serious and being too stupid.

Kraft's not "going bonkers". That battle is lost. If you want to waste bandwidth, start another thread about it.

 
Wow. What did garzooma do to you to warrant this response, deflate your footballs?

 

[Ed Hillel]

2:30 AM, I have my suspicions.

 

[j44thor]

If this goes to the second circuit appeals court can they still settle or has that ship sailed at that point?  One would assume that NE really wants Brady playing vs. PIT no matter what, both for the fans and more importantly so they don't have to have Lindley on a guaranteed contract the rest of the year.  
 
For that reason I don't see anyway that Brady would be offering to settle for anything that keeps him out of game one.  Perhaps he accepts a 1 game suspension week 3 vs. JAX as that would be a non-division game they would be heavily favored to win and NE can then sign a backup QB for one game and be done with it.
 
Of course this all assumes Brady wins with Berman and can still settle after the fact if he gets an inkling he may lose in appeal.  At that point he would be in a much stronger bargaining position but still may accept 1 game as opposed to 4 on appeal.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Brady probably wasn't going to accept a suspension before, he certainly would not after a court victory. He'd probably accept a menial fine to just make it go away, but depending on the exact ruling, even that may not make sense. It becomes more of an NFLPA issue/discussion with Brady about costs and benefits over legal fees.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

 
Wow. What did garzooma do to you to warrant this response, deflate your footballs?

2:30 AM, I have my suspicions.

Accurate. Surprisingly, alcohol wasn't a catalyst. A 8 month old that hates sleep was.

Still...

Person A: here's a dumb question! (Can you believe that might happen in this thread?)

Reasonable person B & C: I'll be nice and not call that a dumb question, and the (correct) answer is no.

Person D: But the answer could be "yes" (no it couldnt), so can we wait for another day before we rehash the dumb question and go into greater detail?

My response was too aggressive - I'm kind of sorry - but as a moderator here, I've stared the devil in the face and read every fucking post in this thread. If the byproduct is getting a little snippy with dumb posts, I consider that a victory.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

If this goes to the second circuit appeals court can they still settle or has that ship sailed at that point?  One would assume that NE really wants Brady playing vs. PIT no matter what, both for the fans and more importantly so they don't have to have Lindley on a guaranteed contract the rest of the year.  
 
For that reason I don't see anyway that Brady would be offering to settle for anything that keeps him out of game one.  Perhaps he accepts a 1 game suspension week 3 vs. JAX as that would be a non-division game they would be heavily favored to win and NE can then sign a backup QB for one game and be done with it.
 
Of course this all assumes Brady wins with Berman and can still settle after the fact if he gets an inkling he may lose in appeal.  At that point he would be in a much stronger bargaining position but still may accept 1 game as opposed to 4 on appeal.

Most federal courts of appeal order a mandatory settlement conference at some point in the appellate process. So yeah, there should at least be another opportunity to settle.

 

[ifmanis5]

Barstool Sports guy had a good day yesterday: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/31/protesters-rip-roger-goodell-and-espn-on-networks-deflategate-broadcast/

 

[Devizier]

How long should we realistically expect this process to play out? Would it likely be 100% concluded by the end of next offseason? Or could this be, as Berman hinted at, two years or more?

Honestly at this point if Brady has to serve a suspension in like 2017 I don't think I would care.

 
I'm expecting after the Superbowl, when Tom Brady asks Roger Goodell how his ass tastes.

 

[staz]

 
I'm expecting after the Superbowl, when Tom Brady asks Roger Goodell how his ass tastes.

 

 

[Shelterdog]

Accurate. Surprisingly, alcohol wasn't a catalyst. A 8 month old that hates sleep was.

Still...

Person A: here's a dumb question! (Can you believe that might happen in this thread?)

Reasonable person B & C: I'll be nice and not call that a dumb question, and the (correct) answer is no.

Person D: But the answer could be "yes" (no it couldnt), so can we wait for another day before we rehash the dumb question and go into greater detail?

My response was too aggressive - I'm kind of sorry - but as a moderator here, I've stared the devil in the face and read every fucking post in this thread. If the byproduct is getting a little snippy with dumb posts, I consider that a victory.

No better way to inspire better discussion than to tell people to shut the fuck up!

 

[Gorton Fisherman]

So who did the "security guy" in the Barstool video work for? What right did he have to physically obstruct/mess with Portnoy? Looked like a public area to me.

 

[Ed Hillel]

So who did the "security guy" in the Barstool video work for? What right did he have to physically obstruct/mess with Portnoy? Looked like a public area to me.

NFL, according to tweets. Hilarious, given who he's protecting.

 

[Dehere]

Kraft isn't going to go bonkers but if the NFLPA wins someone needs to ask him simply, directly and on the record whether Goodell should resign.

 

[OnWisc]

Most federal courts of appeal order a mandatory settlement conference at some point in the appellate process. So yeah, there should at least be another opportunity to settle.

And for the NFL to continue to hold out for Brady admitting guilt. Which will be pretty funny.

The NFL has little to lose here because, on the league's side, who really gives a fuck if Brady misses games or not. Nobody from the league is going to be up all night distraught over some miscarriage of justice or how their legacy may be tainted. Besides, with the appeal there's a good chance Brady misses no games this season anyway. They might as well stick to their guns, go for the big win on Goodell's authority, and if they lose just take the technicality route that others have mentioned.

I think the biggest risk for the NFL- and this could come whether Brady wins or loses- is an opinion that so thoroughly demolishes their process here that the NFL and their media partners can't credibly ignore it. Like "The concept that Mr. Brady or anyone in the Patriots organization took part in any scheme over the course of even a single game to deflate footballs in violation of NFL rules is absolutely baseless and utterly unsupported by anything the NFL or Mr. Wells produced over the course of their investigation. I find any claims that the investigation, the conclusions thereof, or the results of Mr. Brady's appeal were in any conducted or engineered without a pre-determined outcome to be preposterous and insulting. Regrettably, since the NFLPA agreed to give the commissioner the right to take arbitrary disciplary actions for imagined violations without any due process or even notice, I am forced to uphold Mr. Goodell's shameful and vindictive decision." Because even ESPN would have to address that. But since that's a pipe dream, we're back to the fact that the NFL really has little or nothing to gain from settling and lots to gain from their still decent chances at winning.

 

[johnmd20]

Accurate. Surprisingly, alcohol wasn't a catalyst. A 8 month old that hates sleep was.

Still...

Person A: here's a dumb question! (Can you believe that might happen in this thread?)

Reasonable person B & C: I'll be nice and not call that a dumb question, and the (correct) answer is no.

Person D: But the answer could be "yes" (no it couldnt), so can we wait for another day before we rehash the dumb question and go into greater detail?

My response was too aggressive - I'm kind of sorry - but as a moderator here, I've stared the devil in the face and read every fucking post in this thread. If the byproduct is getting a little snippy with dumb posts, I consider that a victory.

 
All good baby, that was just funny. It was like he gently brushed by you on the street without trying to get out of the way and you responded by breaking both his legs, his arm, and four ribs.

 

[dcmissle]

I agree with Denny that if the settlement rumor is true, that points more toward a finding favorable to the NFL.

For the League to make that offer-they must be extremely confident that the CBA trumps the NFLPA's 4 points and that any judge would need to acknowledge that.

Extreme confidence has been known to be misplaced. Which makes me somewhat fearful about the fate of our threads later today, on our side.

In any case, this has never been about settling for the NFL. It wants a decision. As demonstrated by the fact that it was asking more in "settlement" than even Judge Berman can give them.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

No better way to inspire better discussion than to tell people to shut the fuck up!

I'm ok with less discussion in this thread.

 

[lambeau]

The loser will cry technicality, but I think Berman is really ruling on whether fundamental fairness was violated--a pretty big deal.
You might even call it integrity.

 

[dcmissle]

Speaking of fairness. The season opener is 9 days away. Damn. The judge is a sensible guy. I would not stray too far from your phones this morning or afternoon.

 

[joe dokes]

Most federal courts of appeal order a mandatory settlement conference at some point in the appellate process. So yeah, there should at least be another opportunity to settle.          

 
This is certainly true.  But in the larger picture there is nothing that prevents parties from settling cases at *any* time.  I've won and lost jury trials and settled  before an appeal was filed.  (It wasn't much of a discount on the jury award in either case, but certainty, finality, and saving a few bucks has some value).

 

[DJnVa]

If it's written, which seems the consensus, why would he wait?

 

[dcmissle]

So let's game this. If the NFL gets over the Berman hump, no way does it settle for less than an abject apology and Tom Brady's first born (in a Giants' or Steelers' uniform). And if the NFLPA and Brady win, why would they settle? For a fine? No way the NFL would go along with that.

 

[dcmissle]

If it's written, which seems the consensus, why would he wait?

He waited yesterday to give the parties one last chance after a period of reflection. He waited this morning to give people in the clerk's office a chance to settle behind their desks and get some coffee. I think today is D-day.

 

[Average Reds]

So let's game this. If the NFL gets over the Berman hump, no way does it settle for less than an abject apology and Tom Brady's first born (in a Giants' or Steelers' uniform). And if the NFLPA and Brady win, why would they settle? For a fine? No way the NFL would go along with that.

 
Back in May, stories circulated that the NFLPA saw this as an ideal test case to limit the ever-expanding scope of Goodell's disciplinary powers.
 
Obviously, they're going to balance this desire with Brady's best interests, but since the NFL never seems to have made a reasonable settlement offer, I would think that if they believe in the strength of their case, they have the green light to play this out to a definitive legal conclusion.

 

[sodenj5]

I just shelled out some money for opening night. If Berman rules against Brady can I sue him for Tortious interference of banner raising?

 
Interesting thought: If the Brady suspension is upheld, or reduced, do they wait for him to return before raising the banner?

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
Interesting thought: If the Brady suspension is upheld, or reduced, do they wait for him to return before raising the banner?

That's an interesting question and one that has never been raised in this whole process.

 

[veritas]

 
Interesting thought: If the Brady suspension is upheld, or reduced, do they wait for him to return before raising the banner?

Can't tell if serious...

 

[sodenj5]

Can't tell if serious...

 
Very serious. I know the Patriots are all about the team, but I think with all of the turmoil surrounding the offseason, and Kraft going all-in to back Brady, would anyone be surprised if they waited for TB12 to be in the building for the banner?

 

[jimbobim]

That's an interesting question and one that has never been raised in this whole process.

 

Can't tell if serious...

The snark in this thread is reaching hilarious levels. To save everyone a post or three avoid saying " im not sure if this question has been raised...? " even in jest. Just ask the question. 
 
Positive Vibes that RG and the Goodell are slammed like bugs by the hammer of justice wielded by Dick Berman. 

 

[Van Everyman]

I think that one of the more depressing elements of this whole affair is that the NFL simply does not care a whit whether it loses these cases – agree with him or not, Doty's recent comment wondering whether RG even believes there IS a CBA suggests as much. Which is to say, when the NFL has an agenda—to seem tough on domestic violence, etc.—there is no backing down. They will pursue this agenda until the last judge available renders his or her opinion.

The question from the beginning with this situation is: what even IS the agenda? The NFL will say it's something like "fair play" or "the integrity of the game." But virtually all of the journalists covering this, pro and con, have written that it's more about knocking the Patriots and their "culture of cheating" down a peg or two. Which is crazy enough on its own, but doubly so when you realize they are going about it by chasing down the team's best player and possibly the greatest QB in the history of the League for possibly driving with a busted tail light.

All of which is to say, the League meetings this offseason—or at least the dynamics there—must have been fascinating. Because if I'm an equity partner in this enterprise with no competitive horse in this race, I almost certainly have been looking at this entire ordeal with a mixture of bewilderment and horror that these are the people I'm in business with.

Please, Berman: put us out of our misery.

 

[DJnVa]

 
Very serious. I know the Patriots are all about the team, but I think with all of the turmoil surrounding the offseason, and Kraft going all-in to back Brady, would anyone be surprised if they waited for TB12 to be in the building for the banner?

 
 
Yes.
 

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
Interesting thought: If the Brady suspension is upheld, or reduced, do they wait for him to return before raising the banner?

Honestly, he'd probably get a stay and be playing anyway. If not, yikes, tough call for Kraft, but I bet he'd delay it.

 

[jsinger121]

Honestly, he'd probably get a stay and be playing anyway. If not, yikes, tough call for Kraft, but I bet he'd delay it.

 
Raise this opening night if he aint't playing
 

 

[veritas]

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/89351-nobradynobanner-yay-or-nay/

 

[sodenj5]

Honestly, he'd probably get a stay and be playing anyway. If not, yikes, tough call for Kraft, but I bet he'd delay it.

 
I'm of the opinion that he would wait if Brady isn't there for the opener. Just my thought on the matter.

 

[Otis Foster]

Who's on Pacer ATM? I have a meeting in 5 minutes.
 
(Time to rethink my priorities.)