#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
CaptainLaddie said:
Ryan Grigson, the GM of the Colts, has been talked about as the Indianapolis official who pushed this through league channels. What's his connection to the Belichick-Brady Patriots?
Well, after retiring as a player he worked his way through organizations -- he was a scout for the Rams when they lost to the Patriots in the Super Bowl ... and was a scout with the Eagles when they lost to the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
Of course, that's just a coincidence. Grigson is motivated by his love for the integrity of the game ... without a hint of revenge.
Maybe not the psi, but the difference in height does have an implication with regards to Gravitational Time Dilation. So the balls on the bench would be *slightly* older than the balls on the ground. That may be causing some of the measurement differences we are seeing here.Ferm Sheller said:
riboflav said:
I know things are constantly changing, but that's kind of where I'm at now. Whatever scenario you prefer, the simplest explanation at this point seems to be a significant ref screwup, and Goodell and his minions are just having a hard time figuring out how to deal with it
It does.RedOctober3829 said:
With Goodell it's hard to predict, though. Justice delayed is justice denied here. Show your cards or move on.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Its hard to know whether or not he was ever in any danger of losing his job, as that would be a behind the scenes thing. But how many owners came out so publicly behind him during that episode? Kraft went on national TV (Good Morning America I think) and said Goodell had handled the whole thing perfectly. He then did another big media interview later in the year that was clearly orchestrated just to express his support for Goodell when rumors were swirling about the Mueller Report.
Goodell is incompetent but I think he's smart enough to be wary about biting the hand that feeds him, or at least not overtly persecuting the team owned by the guy attached to that hand.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/getting-it-right-for-ricardo-montalban/HriniakPosterChild said:
Mr. Montalban, who died Wednesday morning at the age of 88, didnot say “rich Corinthian leather,” nor did he say “fine Corinthian leather” — although you might think otherwise based on a numberof errant references in esteemed publications.
at :20 here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8YI3AeiP2k
I think a lot of talking heads thought he should resign, thoughRudy Pemberton said:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/ham-why-roger-goodell-should-resign/
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24716508/players-bash-roger-goodell-on-twitter-tedy-bruschi-says-he-should-resign
Lack of stepsEd Hillel said:
Like many addicts, resentments are beyond the pale
Whether he is clean or not which no one knows, it sue sounds like all of this stems out of insane resentments from teams/players that hate the Pats/Belichick. What we do know is he is a sick individual that appears not to be in any sort of recovery process.
Another is they are taking their time, were saving Brady for last, and are going to come out and say the footballs dropped more than one can expect due to non human intervention, and thus the organization at some level is responsible for violating the rules.riboflav said:
I mean 100 pages and all of decent rationalizations why it might be something else -- and I am hoping so too -- but if we're guessing, this seems not unlikely to me.
I can honestly say this is the first valuable piece of information that has come out of this for me.Infield Infidel said:
And of course I now must post this:
Well that didn't work. Was trying to post "Ricardo Montalbon" calling George Takei.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
This is where I am as well. The NFL and media types who have animosity to the Pats are getting their pound of flesh, in two weeks this is over, and some time before the draft a fine and/or pick-loss and/or suspension will be announced
I wouldn't even call it a screwup. The refs didn't pay attention to something that wasn't a big deal until the Colts decided to make a big deal out of it.TomTerrific said:
Responding to DDB: That isn't possible. They can't drop the hammer because "something must have happened but we don't know what." That leaves open the possibility that the Colts paid the ball boy to deflate the balls to screw over the Pats. It's just not a prudent way to proceed. If they don't know what happened they have to admit it and tighten up the processes so that in the future they damn well do know what's happening.
I want to believe simplest answer here, which is that the refs just don't check the balls that carefully...but then why hasn't he NFL acknowledged this yet? It's not that big of a deal to admit that, a lot better than the mess they have on their hands now.
Maybe the refs aren't being truthful?
Maybe the refs aren't being truthful?
Koufax said:
The problem is you're expecting the borderline psychopath of a commissioner to approach this rationally.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
This is a possible scenario but its much more likely that the league will just want this to go away and would respond to the same set of facts with a statement to the effect that the balls were deflated, its unclear how it happened, and the Patriots will get a small fine due to irregularities happening on their watch but there is no evidence of purposeful misconduct.
Yeah, though who knows if there is any coordination going on here. But to me, Mort said 11 balls were under, he hasn't walked it back, and the NFL hasn't denied it (like they seemingly quickly did when rumors surfaced that BB would be suspended). Occam's razor and all. That doesn't mean BB knew it. It doesn't mean Brady did soething intentionally (but it looks a little fishy I suppose).. Hopefully there is some natural deflation/pressure loss possibility or ref uncertainty about the initial measurements. Or maybe Mort doesn't have an important detail. But all those feel a bit more unlikely to me than the more straightforward answer, though of course I'm just guessing like everyone else.riboflav said:
ernieshore said:
I live in the DC area and I stopped listening to Czabe years ago. There are a bunch of reasons, but it was mostly because I could no longer stomach his Belichick hatred. I am stunned by this article and I might just listen tomorrow. I guess his hatred for Goodell has surpassed his hatred for Belichick.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
It's not going to go down like that. Goodell is not going to get up on the stage after the game next Sunday if the Patriots win and extoll the virtues of a team that one week later he's going to call cheaters.
They assumed they'd get a different outcome, that's why we heard Wed or early Thursday. That's gone. We're heading towards a Friday news dump that will say almost nothing, but put this to bed.
Then next Sunday, the Pats will stomp Seattle, Goodell will hand the trophy to Brady, he'll Gronk-spike it and tell Goodell to suck it.
I've read that the Colts informed the NFL that the balls were under-inflated after the regular season and have also heard or read that the Colts found the balls under-inflated in that game but then didn't tell the NFL. Regardless of which scenario is correct, the actions of the Colts and/or the NFL before the AFC Championship Game tells you everything you need to know on how serious this issue really is.
So the Colts - as big underdogs and playing in adverse conditions on the road - know BEFORE the Championship Game that the opposing QB is using an illegal ball which will give him an advantage, yet stay quiet and allow him to play with it? And if the NFL knows, it also does nothing to prevent that advantage from playing out? I can't think of a scenario in which this makes sense unless it's a non-issue competitive-wise.
The NFL should absolutely jump out ahead and admit that it's a crap rule, announce that they'll review it in the offseason with one possible solution is that they'll allow QB's to inflate their balls to whichever PSI they prefer. It seems like with the Panthers in-game escapades, Jackson, Rodgers, Johnson, etc. they have enough cover to call the matter trivial and move on.
So the Colts - as big underdogs and playing in adverse conditions on the road - know BEFORE the Championship Game that the opposing QB is using an illegal ball which will give him an advantage, yet stay quiet and allow him to play with it? And if the NFL knows, it also does nothing to prevent that advantage from playing out? I can't think of a scenario in which this makes sense unless it's a non-issue competitive-wise.
The NFL should absolutely jump out ahead and admit that it's a crap rule, announce that they'll review it in the offseason with one possible solution is that they'll allow QB's to inflate their balls to whichever PSI they prefer. It seems like with the Panthers in-game escapades, Jackson, Rodgers, Johnson, etc. they have enough cover to call the matter trivial and move on.
This is where I'm at, especially 1 and 2. We shouldnt take the media hype as a sign the NFL cares. I'll addriboflav said:
7. The NFL likes having the Patriots play the heel because it's good for ratings.
If the NFL thought this was a serious problem we would have seen some spinning by now. The fact they've said nothing says to me they don't think it's a big deal.
He's had three days to walk it back. If it's wrong, he's fucked. I hope he's fucked, but it seems like exactly the kind of trial baloon the NFL sends up to try to guage public opinion. It's their M.O. It's how you smoke out stories like Super Bowl QBs paying $7500 to rough up balls so you can figure your shit out.twibnotes said:
Doug Kyed @DougKyedNESN 23s23 seconds ago
According to @PFF's "time in pocket" stats, Tom Brady held the football for 72.52 total seconds in the AFC Championship Game.
PLENTY OF TIME TO DISCERN PSI!!!
According to @PFF's "time in pocket" stats, Tom Brady held the football for 72.52 total seconds in the AFC Championship Game.
PLENTY OF TIME TO DISCERN PSI!!!
"Schmaltz estimated that it would take no more than 30 minutes for the temperature of the air inside the ball to acclimate to the temperature of the air outside."
That doesn't sound right. Put a bottle of wine in the refrigerator and it takes hours, or half a day to get to the frij temperature. Leather is a better insulator than glass, so the air in a football should chill even slower. Question is, does a mass of air chill faster than a mass of liquid, once the inside surface of the leather stabilizes at the colder temperature. I might be arguing against a plausible reason for PSI drop being due to temperature difference except the balls may have never been tested with a gauge anyway, or, if they were, it may have been done hours before. For some reason, this controversy reminds me of the Pentium II bug, if you remember that one.
That doesn't sound right. Put a bottle of wine in the refrigerator and it takes hours, or half a day to get to the frij temperature. Leather is a better insulator than glass, so the air in a football should chill even slower. Question is, does a mass of air chill faster than a mass of liquid, once the inside surface of the leather stabilizes at the colder temperature. I might be arguing against a plausible reason for PSI drop being due to temperature difference except the balls may have never been tested with a gauge anyway, or, if they were, it may have been done hours before. For some reason, this controversy reminds me of the Pentium II bug, if you remember that one.
Doug Kyed has been a fucking godsend for Boston sports media. Reasonable, intelligent, funny, and personable. I'm sure he'll get poached if he keeps that up. When was the last time we had a Patriots beat reporter who was this good -- Reiss?
If you are serious:Al Zarilla said:
Air has a much lower heat capacity than liquid, so it changes temp faster. Its like a battery: batteries with high capacity take longer to charge.
Freddy Linn said:
I saw this article and just lost it. I let Mr. O'Connor really have it on Twitter, but I only kind of regret it...
crystalline said:
I've been thinking this since this morning, mainly because I expected to wake up to the announcement of a scheduled-RG press conference. The best way to act like it's no big deal is to treat it like it's no big deal.
EDIT: That said, they sure haven't been using PK to spin it that way.
pokey_reese said:
You didn't think the author of the literary masterpiece "The Captain: The Journey of Derek Jeter" would weigh in with a reasonable take here?
Yep. The specific heat of water (how much energy it takes to change its temperature) is around 4 times that of air.crystalline said:
For a related easy to understand phenomenon, compare sticking your hand in the 350F oven (without touching anything else) with sticking it into a pot of 212F boiling water.
riboflav said:
I don't think it's been established that the players have access to the game balls -- except on the field of play during games.
Re:King - that's why I added #7. The NFL wants to play the Pats up as cheaters. Everyone loves a good heel and the public attention is maximal in a traditionally slow week.riboflav said:
Even if that's the case 72 seconds is a really fancy way of saying a little over a minute....riboflav said:
More and more I'm leaning toward the scenario where the Patriots have made a lot of angry frothing enemies in the NFL media and in opposing teams front offices and they are doing everything possible to make throwing the book at the Pats seem like a no brainer even though it's detached from reality. Another thing to keep in mind is while it seems like all the information that is public is incriminating it's been so perfectly framed to emphasize the potential guilt the only thing is a smoking gun from some people's perspective.
In the absence of a smoking gun the frothing masses want "I didn't see the video "Goodell to once again claim ignorance is no excuse citing a Bountycase scandal where Tagliabue basically redid all of Goodell's punishment that he could. Just absurd on every level....
There are a ton of "journalists" I'd like to sign up to conduct this experiment.SumnerH said: