dirtynine's Digest - The Thread for Kits

Zososoxfan

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Design update... (I'm solidly in the editing/tweaking phase on this one; I may share another draft or two. Sorry for the dive inside my process!)

View attachment 32820

The stripes are now treated more consistently. The browns are also more varied to reflect a range of tones. The ×'s are a little thicker. And I've updated the quote in the neck to a new MLK remark I feel is an even better fit:

> I HAVE BEGUN THE STRUGGLE, AND I CANNOT TURN BACK
Just catching up on this and I wanted to say outstanding work as usual. I'll be keeping up with this going forward and will certainly support and help however I can.
 

dirtynine

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Playing around with a slightly different, cleaner concept. I thought the simple American escutcheon (aka the Centennial Crest) in black/brown would work better with this design.

33124

Feedback always appreciated.

In other news, the new Brighton kit doesn't have traditional stripes! More of a pinstripe thing.

33125

I really like it (and of course I'll embrace the inevitable "return to tradition" release next year).
 

Titans Bastard

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Not a kit yet but St. Louis has a badge and colors:
View: https://twitter.com/GrantWahl/status/1293942912028413952


Badge to me is ugly (I think that is supposed to represent the arch and the interconnecting highways?)
The color scheme though? Magenta, yellow and VERY dark navy? Some fun possibilities. Sadly this is MLS so they'll just get the most boring template looking garbage.
Another totally insipid and uncreative name for an expansion team in MLS.
 

Cellar-Door

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Another totally insipid and uncreative name for an expansion team in MLS.
I definitely don't care about that personally. I'm fine with MLS copying the naming conventions of Europe and developing an identity separate from an American sports style league. What I don't like is when (as here) that extends to really generic crests, kits, etc. Maybe they will surprise us with the kit?

ATL UTD is an example, they went generic, but starting with the crest they planned the Red and Black stripes as their eventual identifying image. I wonder if Montreal is why St. Louis didn't embrace the fleur-de-lisle from the flag in it's crest?
Still, I think the crest is garbage in a way that accentuates the lack of identity
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Badge is way too designery. Having some abstracted highways with the mild suggestion of the arch probably lets you make a better one of those insipid designer statements about what each element means, but it's a weak and muddy image. Text aligned in two different directions is also sloppy as hell, along with the fact that the first part of the name is to the right of the second part which is not how reading works.

I actually dislike that badge the more I look at it. It's like a first draft that's two sets of revisions away form being "eh, fine".

EDIT: I read the aformentioned insipid designer statement stuff and it's supposed to reference the rivers rather than the highway, as in the STL flag. Except in their designery wisdom, they've dropped the cool part of it from the flag, which is the wavy-ness, because I suppose a single curve is easier in Illustrator.

 
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67YAZ

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Agree that the name & crest are pretty blah, but love the colors.

I mostly care that Chicago-StL should be a natural rivalry. Fire-Crew has a nice enough history to it, but seems like Columbus-Cincy should become a legit derby. (Those cities are 90 minutes apart.) Of course, it will really help if Chicago becomes good enough for StL or anyone else to get excited about playing them.
 

nayrbrey

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This thread and the club names had me thinking about the history of US Soccer Team names, and it has led me down the Wikihole. This actually may be good for a more in depth thread of the older leagues before sending this thread off the rails.
Looking at the first US league, the American Football Association from 1884, the names are a bit all over the place, but “FC” is attached to some of them. 4 FC’s in total, 2 Rovers and 2 Thistles.
  • Clark O.N.T. (Our New Threads- company team for Clark Thread Co)
  • Almas
  • Tiffany Rovers
  • Newark Thistles
  • Domestics
  • Riversides
  • Kearny Rangers
  • New York FC
  • New York Thistles
  • Paterson FC
  • Ansonia FC
  • Fall River Rovers
  • East End FC
Can anyone recommend a good resource for the history of the game in the US?
 

Cellar-Door

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This thread and the club names had me thinking about the history of US Soccer Team names, and it has led me down the Wikihole. This actually may be good for a more in depth thread of the older leagues before sending this thread off the rails.
Looking at the first US league, the American Football Association from 1884, the names are a bit all over the place, but “FC” is attached to some of them. 4 FC’s in total, 2 Rovers and 2 Thistles.
  • Clark O.N.T. (Our New Threads- company team for Clark Thread Co)
  • Almas
  • Tiffany Rovers
  • Newark Thistles
  • Domestics
  • Riversides
  • Kearny Rangers
  • New York FC
  • New York Thistles
  • Paterson FC
  • Ansonia FC
  • Fall River Rovers
  • East End FC
Can anyone recommend a good resource for the history of the game in the US?
They put together some good stuff.
 

nayrbrey

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They put together some good stuff.
Thanks for the link, off to not work for the rest of the day.
 

Zososoxfan

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I like the fact that they incorporated the arch, but @Jimy Hendrix critiques cut deep man. The text being on the right is no bueno, made worse by the relative placement and inconsistent alignment with "SC".

I agree with @Cellar-Door that the naming convention doesn't bother me. There's something to the idea that a club (or in this case franchise) should have a name and the teams can have a nickname. This breaks down a bit with sports-specific franchises, but I digress. I honestly don't care much either way. Europe certainly lost some of the high ground here with the Red Bull clubs. At the end of the day, what makes soccer the game of the world is the uniquely local quirks, so America's hodgepodge of Real Salt Lake, LAFC, NE Revolution, Atlanta United FC SC & Associates LLLP, etc. is a pretty fair reflection of the facts on the ground.

The bigger issue I have with the name is the inclusion of "City". I assume they were trying to include East STL for marketing purposes, but it just sounds kinda dumb to me. They're also possibly trying to tap into "Manchester City" with that, but maybe it'll become less awkward to me over time.
 

dirtynine

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I have no problem with the name (Like a lot of the recent MLS names it’s a placeholder allows for something organic to form which is a good thing IMO).

The crest design is... a missed opportunity.
 

OCST

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I definitely don't care about that personally I'm fine with MLS copying the naming conventions of Europe and developing an identity separate from an American sports style league. What I don't like is when (as here) that extends to really generic crests, kits, etc. Maybe they will surprise us with the kit?

ATL UTD is an example, they went generic, but starting with the crest they planned the Red and Black stripes as their eventual identifying image. I wonder if Montreal is why St. Louis didn't embrace the fleur-de-lisle from the flag in it's crest?
Still, I think the crest is garbage in a way that accentuates the lack of identity
I've posted on this so pardon if I'm repetitive. I don't mind "FC," that's used around the world. "SC," for Soccer Club, might get side-eye from Brits and Continentals, but I make no apologies for "soccer," it's perfectly cromulent as short for "association football" in a country with multiple football codes stemming from the common ancestor*.

What I mind re: using European naming conventions is mindless aping without respect for the origins. Especially since MLS, with a single-entity structure, and American sports generally, with closed leagues with "franchises" and no pro-rel, is so antithetical to the culture of English football where sides sprang organically from groups of neighbors and were voluntary associations and "clubs" in the truest sense of that word. "United" as a name often was adopted after the merger of two local clubs (Newcastle; also Sheffield, but in their case it was the Sheffield United Cricket Club that formed out of the remnants of several local cricket clubs), or takeover of foundering clubs by newly formed investor groups (Manchester, West Ham).

Wikipedia source for all of the above.

"Wanderers" was adopted by several clubs who lacked home grounds, and/or clubs who liked "the rather romantic sense of a group of travelling gentlemen who play for pleasure rather than to win - a very English sentiment, particularly in the late 19th century when most clubs were formed. So we have Wolverhampton Wanderers, Wycombe Wanderers and Bolton Wanderers."


"Rovers," "Ramblers," "Nomads," and probably "Rangers," similarly. FWIW, not too different than the culture of barnstorming baseball clubs in the US around the same time period.

The story of Sheffield Wednesday getting its name because the footballers played on Wednesday when they had the day off is well known.

"AFC" or "Athletic" is straightforward, I think; also "Sporting" along the same lines.

"City," "Town," "Hamlet," "Borough," not imaginative but organic nonetheless - straightforward appeal to civic pride.

Lots of wonders in the lower leagues.

Re: vocational names like the American "Packers" or "Steelers": several sides of "Miners Welfare" - Hemsworth, Kimberely, Nostell, others. "Billiingham Synthonia," named after a fertilizer. "Bristol Telephones FC," f/k/a "Bristol Post Office Telephones." "Cray Valley Paper Mills."

Anyway. I could go on.

Point being that these are organic.

For American clubs to import them just smells like marketing. I'd rather American clubs just used American sports naming conventions. That's fine. International games adapt to local custom. When Japan started playing baseball they named teams after corporations and that's fine for their culture, and it doesn't stop hipsters from wearing their Nippon Ham Fighters jerseys around Williamsburg. Awkward hybrids like Sporting KC and Real Salt Lake just make me cringe. So do collective noun names like Revolution and Impact (although I like Charleston Battery and Chicago Fire is ok).

Now tell me who to bill this to.
 

dirtynine

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I’ve come around on this. I would venture that turning AstroTurf into real organic grass, as it were, is the true American way. Start by shamelessly and badly aping somebody else’s organic thing, end up (after years have built up familiarity and worn grooves of originality into it) with something truly unique and our own. Pizza and hot dogs. Vegas. All kinds of stuff in ”New” England. Sampling in music. Hell, our national anthem was a British pub song. This is the alchemy of our culture. We get inspired by something (steal it if we have to), and time+love+the collective influence of many different kinds of people transforms the forced into the natural.

St. Louis is a soccer town. There’s a fighting chance that 50 years from now they’ll be the club the world thinks of when somebody says “City”. And those who remember it seeming fake will be old or dead like me.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not much new there, but I did like the owner saying that she didn't fight for that bright color scheme to not use it on the field, so possibly we'll get some interesting uniforms in MLS for once?
 

Titans Bastard

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I've posted on this so pardon if I'm repetitive. I don't mind "FC," that's used around the world. "SC," for Soccer Club, might get side-eye from Brits and Continentals, but I make no apologies for "soccer," it's perfectly cromulent as short for "association football" in a country with multiple football codes stemming from the common ancestor*.

What I mind re: using European naming conventions is mindless aping without respect for the origins. Especially since MLS, with a single-entity structure, and American sports generally, with closed leagues with "franchises" and no pro-rel, is so antithetical to the culture of English football where sides sprang organically from groups of neighbors and were voluntary associations and "clubs" in the truest sense of that word. "United" as a name often was adopted after the merger of two local clubs (Newcastle; also Sheffield, but in their case it was the Sheffield United Cricket Club that formed out of the remnants of several local cricket clubs), or takeover of foundering clubs by newly formed investor groups (Manchester, West Ham).

Wikipedia source for all of the above.

"Wanderers" was adopted by several clubs who lacked home grounds, and/or clubs who liked "the rather romantic sense of a group of travelling gentlemen who play for pleasure rather than to win - a very English sentiment, particularly in the late 19th century when most clubs were formed. So we have Wolverhampton Wanderers, Wycombe Wanderers and Bolton Wanderers."


"Rovers," "Ramblers," "Nomads," and probably "Rangers," similarly. FWIW, not too different than the culture of barnstorming baseball clubs in the US around the same time period.

The story of Sheffield Wednesday getting its name because the footballers played on Wednesday when they had the day off is well known.

"AFC" or "Athletic" is straightforward, I think; also "Sporting" along the same lines.

"City," "Town," "Hamlet," "Borough," not imaginative but organic nonetheless - straightforward appeal to civic pride.

Lots of wonders in the lower leagues.

Re: vocational names like the American "Packers" or "Steelers": several sides of "Miners Welfare" - Hemsworth, Kimberely, Nostell, others. "Billiingham Synthonia," named after a fertilizer. "Bristol Telephones FC," f/k/a "Bristol Post Office Telephones." "Cray Valley Paper Mills."

Anyway. I could go on.

Point being that these are organic.

For American clubs to import them just smells like marketing. I'd rather American clubs just used American sports naming conventions. That's fine. International games adapt to local custom. When Japan started playing baseball they named teams after corporations and that's fine for their culture, and it doesn't stop hipsters from wearing their Nippon Ham Fighters jerseys around Williamsburg. Awkward hybrids like Sporting KC and Real Salt Lake just make me cringe. So do collective noun names like Revolution and Impact (although I like Charleston Battery and Chicago Fire is ok).

Now tell me who to bill this to.
I'm going to plug myself here.

View: https://twitter.com/_jameshill/status/1285957584793612289
 

Royal Reader

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I'm waiting for the club that is bold enough to go the Arsenal/Juventus route and not put the city name in. I'd love it if, say, they had a Pittsburgh franchise called Three Rivers SC or whatever.

Among the Anglophile options, I'm kind of shocked no-one has ever gone County.
 

Zososoxfan

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Also, nothing will ever make “Real Salt Lake” ok.
Totally agree. This is the same as the complaint with "FC" in the US and I wholeheartedly agree. SC is a fine option for soccer or sports club, although most franchises using "sports" and soccer also sound stupid.

Or Inter Miami.
Hard disagree here. Have you spent much time in Miami? It's one of the most international cities in the world. It's called the capital of Latin America for good reason. There's also a ton of Europeans.

I also like the NE Revolution name, although I generally don't like the regional team names (like Tampa Bay). It's usually better to have the name of the city where the team is actually located and allude to any unique geographical features (e.g. The Twins "Twin Cities" logo).
 

Zososoxfan

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Joe D Reid

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Holy shit, with the solid green shirt those are amazing. If I was a wasn't a quarantine-tubby middle-aged white dude I'd buy it in a second.
 

OCST

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Cross posting from the international thread. I put on Liechtenstein - Gibraltar, almost as a joke, and it's really a good game - and the Gibraltar kits are tremendous:

34864

34865

They're wearing the whites and I can't find a picture of the full kit, but it's really sharp - and the visual pun, or whatever you want to call it, of the Rock is just so good.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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This thread always makes me want to buy so many kits of teams I do not care about in the least. Those Nigerian ones are great.