Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!

[Cellar-Door]

Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
5m

There is a growing belief among rival teams that Atlanta will be in pole position for Danilo Gallinari and Rajon Rondo when free agency begins later this week, league sources say As @NYTSports reported on Oct. 28, Rondo is also poised to receive strong interest from the Clippers

**

Perhaps there is no stalking horse.

Amusingly.... signing both of those guys would leave them with room for Hayward.The Hawks have 50M in cap space essentially, and can probably open up more if they need to.

Then the Hawks are certainly welcome to taking on Wiggins contract for a future Golden State first or two and rolling on in hopes that there's no more eastern migration and one day they might make the playoffs.

Umm ok? Why is that their other option? If Hayward is willing to go to Atlanta, they have no incentive to give anything up, they either sign him, or they get value from the Celtics in return for letting BOS get a TPE.

If Hayward doesn't want to go there, they move on, sign discount Hayward (Gallo), Rondo, and Favors for example.

You still haven't put forward a good reason why a team 50M under the cap is going to give up assets to clear cap space that they likely can't use.

 

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
5m

There is a growing belief among rival teams that Atlanta will be in pole position for Danilo Gallinari and Rajon Rondo when free agency begins later this week, league sources say As @NYTSports reported on Oct. 28, Rondo is also poised to receive strong interest from the Clippers

**

Perhaps there is no stalking horse.

Can anyone explain why ATL would want Rondo? He's a perfect piece for a team on the cusp who needs a veteran who can handle crunch time. Thus the Lakers. But with Trae Young and John Collins, Atlanta should still be adding young cost-controlled talent. They seem like a team that could contend in 2023 -- and by then Rondo is 36 and maybe good for 15 MPG off the bench.

 

[nighthob]

They aren't $50 million under the cap, for one.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Can anyone explain why ATL would want Rondo? He's a perfect piece for a team on the cusp who needs a veteran who can handle crunch time. Thus the Lakers. But with Trae Young and John Collins, Atlanta should still be adding young cost-controlled talent. They seem like a team that could contend in 2023 -- and by then Rondo is 36 and maybe good for 15 MPG off the bench.

Probably just a culture thing. They have a team of young guys that probably needs some tough Rondo love to help them grow.

 

[DGreenwood]

Didn't the deadline go by about 30 minutes ago? No action is essentially declining the option, correct?

 

[Mystic Merlin]

The extended opt out deadline is tomorrow at 5PM, not today.

 

[Cellar-Door]

They aren't $50 million under the cap, for one.

ok, they will be at 41 with the ability to get to 49 pretty easily. It still doesn't explain why they would be so desperate to dump an easy to move contract that they would give up assets in a deal that should by all rights bring them assets.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

LOL:
View: https://twitter.com/SportsTalkATL/status/1328885987376844801

(I know none of the Celtics fans in question are SoSHers, but still...these are probably people who also think Trump won the election.)

 

[nighthob]

ok, they will be at 41 with the ability to get to 49 pretty easily. It still doesn't explain why they would be so desperate to dump an easy to move contract that they would give up assets in a deal that should by all rights bring them assets.

I mean if the argument is "Why would Atlanta give up assets to move a contract they could easily give up assets to move!!!" then I don't know what to say. Dedmon is deadweight at this point. He's a bigman that fell off a cliff. Someone will pocket draft picks to take him off Atlanta's hands. But, they're free to forget about Hayward and trade #6 for Gary Harris, so there's always that.

 

[BigSoxFan]

LOL:
View: https://twitter.com/SportsTalkATL/status/1328885987376844801

(I know none of the Celtics fans in question are SoSHers, but still...these are probably people who also think Trump won the election.)

Look, you guys stole a 2nd rounder from us for Sanu. Time to even the score.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Look, you guys stole a 2nd rounder from us for Sanu. Time to even the score.

And, um, you guys stole our 28-3 Super Bowl lead?

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean if the argument is "Why would Atlanta give up assets to move a contract they could easily give up assets to move!!!" then I don't know what to say. Dedmon is deadweight at this point. He's a bigman that fell off a cliff. Someone will pocket draft picks to take him off Atlanta's hands. But, they're free to forget about Hayward and trade #6 for Gary Harris, so there's always that.

My point was more... they don't need to move him at all. He's deadweight, but all he's preventing them from doing is getting to 60M, they aren't spending that much this offseason likely, and given their lack of salary match options if a highly paid player they want under contract becomes available, he probably has more value as a filler in a trade.

I was just pointing out that if there was some need for them to move him down the line they could, but that at the moment, they have no need to do it, and some incentive not to do it.

Edit- not that it matters, everything both Hayward and the Hawks are doing (and OKC who are apparently renouncing Gallo) indicates that Hayward has no interest in going there.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

And, um, you guys stole our 28-3 Super Bowl lead?

You stole an entire franchise.

 

[nighthob]

And, um, you guys stole our 28-3 Super Bowl lead?

 

[Swedgin]

Can anyone explain why ATL would want Rondo? He's a perfect piece for a team on the cusp who needs a veteran who can handle crunch time. Thus the Lakers. But with Trae Young and John Collins, Atlanta should still be adding young cost-controlled talent. They seem like a team that could contend in 2023 -- and by then Rondo is 36 and maybe good for 15 MPG off the bench.

For one the Hawks really demonstrated the importance of having an adequate back up PG last season. The on/off metrics without Young on the floor were staggeringly bad. So Rondo fills that void. Second, the veteran presence and playoff experience is worth something. Rondo may not be the easiest personality to manage, but by all reports we was really good with the Lakers younger players. Finally, there is a whole lot of pressure to make the playoffs this year in Atlanta. Rondo is not a long term piece, but he could be a good signing to raise the Hawk's floor.

On a related point, it is very difficult to add young cost-controlled talent via FA. Restricted rights mean that you can only get young talent if you are willing to dramatically overpay. Even when teams are acting as dumping grounds for toxic contracts the payoff is usually picks, not young players who have shown anything.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Have there been fewer reported draft promises this year or am I just paying less attention?

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Have there been fewer reported draft promises this year or am I just paying less attention?

Yeah, I’ve heard Isaiah Joe to Philly, but I can think of anything else that specifies team and player.

Edit- Sixers included 34th pick in the Horford trade, which makes Joe to Philly substantially less likely.

 

[mcpickl]

Have there been fewer reported draft promises this year or am I just paying less attention?

I heard on one podcast, can't remember which I've been listening to a lot, that they had heard Payton Pritchard from Oregon had a first round promise.

 

[DJnVa]

View: https://twitter.com/adamhimmelsbach/status/1329215871361888256?s=21

 

[amfox1]

Mark Murphy
@Murf56
1m

There's a creeping sense on Causeway Street that Gordon Hayward doesn't get traded tonight.

 

[DJnVa]

Mark Murphy
@Murf56
1m

There's a creeping sense on Causeway Street that Gordon Hayward doesn't get traded tonight.

If dude opts out tomorrow....ugh.

 

[Cellar-Door]

If dude opts out tomorrow....ugh.

I'm pretty certain he's opting out tomorrow one way or another (or rather not opting in).
I don't think he has any real interest in playing on a 1 year deal. That' just tax leverage.

 

[the moops]

I think there is a very real chance that he just opts in. It still is 34 million fucking dollars

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think there is a very real chance that he just opts in. It still is 34 million fucking dollars

Maybe, but there are teams willing to guarantee him 85-100M dollars out there.

 

[the moops]

Maybe, but there are teams willing to guarantee him 85-100M dollars out there.

Perhaps. But if it is a 4/100 deal, he may prefer to play out the year and sign a 3/75 next year with a whole lot more choices

 

[Cellar-Door]

Perhaps. But if it is a 4/100 deal, he may prefer to play out the year and sign a 3/75 next year with a whole lot more choices

Maybe, but he can get a S&T if he wants it, and a guy with his injury history? I mean, we just saw Klay maybe blow his achilles. Another major injury for Hayward drops his value immensely.

 

[bosockboy]

Maybe, but he can get a S&T if he wants it, and a guy with his injury history? I mean, we just saw Klay maybe blow his achilles. Another major injury for Hayward drops his value immensely.

Yep. He’s gotta feel cursed. He’s opting out.

 

[the moops]

Maybe, but he can get a S&T if he wants it, and a guy with his injury history? I mean, we just saw Klay maybe blow his achilles. Another major injury for Hayward drops his value immensely.

Well yes getting a S&T is possible that is different than him just opting out. To me the most likely scenarios are 1) S&T to a team he wants to go to, 2) opting in with the Celtics, 3) signing with some shitty team

 

[Cellar-Door]

Well yes getting a S&T is possible that is different than him just opting out. To me the most likely scenarios are 1) S&T to a team he wants to go to, 2) opting in with the Celtics, 3) signing with some shitty team

Oh yeah.. when I said he'd opt out one way or another that's what I mean. I think he's going to opt out and get a S&T (or possibly a deal with the Celtics for multiple years). I don't think he'll opt in, it seems clear he wants to get multiple years.

 

[mcpickl]

I heard on one podcast, can't remember which I've been listening to a lot, that they had heard Payton Pritchard from Oregon had a first round promise.

And apparently that team was the Boston Celtics

 

[NomarsFool]

What is the purpose of these promises? That you convince the player not to work out for anyone else? Just seems a bit goofy to me - you never know who might fall to you in the draft. If a guy is good enough to be drafted 20th, for example, why does he take your promise of being drafted 26th? And, if he's not good enough to be drafted 20th, for example, why do you promise him? To make sure somebody doesn't grab him at 25? Eh.

 

[Cellar-Door]

What is the purpose of these promises? That you convince the player not to work out for anyone else? Just seems a bit goofy to me - you never know who might fall to you in the draft. If a guy is good enough to be drafted 20th, for example, why does he take your promise of being drafted 26th? And, if he's not good enough to be drafted 20th, for example, why do you promise him? To make sure somebody doesn't grab him at 25? Eh.

Yes.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

For some it's so they declare and get an agent or w/e, isn't it?

 

[PedroKsBambino]

If Hayward has a 4/$100 mil offer from somewhere he is willing to go then he's opting out, I agree.

I would guess he has something more like 3/$60 and he's assessing whether it's worth giving up the $34 to get the additional 2/$26 or not. To me, that fits better with the extension on the option.

 

[scottyno]

What is the purpose of these promises? That you convince the player not to work out for anyone else? Just seems a bit goofy to me - you never know who might fall to you in the draft. If a guy is good enough to be drafted 20th, for example, why does he take your promise of being drafted 26th? And, if he's not good enough to be drafted 20th, for example, why do you promise him? To make sure somebody doesn't grab him at 25? Eh.

If a guy is good enough to get drafted 20th, he's also probably bad enough to not be taken in the 1st round. The difference between being a 1st and 2nd rounder is huge, the 20th (or 26th or 30th) pick is set for life with the guaranteed money, the 31st pick is guaranteed nothing, makes all the sense in the world for a borderline 1st rounder to take a guarantee even if he might keep him from moving up a few spots.

 

[DJnVa]

So, what time is deadline? 4 pm?

Still could be some movement in the roster today...possibly a lot.

 

[lexrageorge]

So, what time is deadline? 4 pm?

Still could be some movement in the roster today...possibly a lot.

I think you're off by an hour (it's 5pm):

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-gordon-hayward-enes-kanter-player-option-deadlines-revealed#:~:text=Apparently Hayward and Kanter have,to Yahoo Sports' Keith Smith.&text=Celtics Talk-,NBA Draft Preview: Favorite targets or will,Celtics trade all their picks?

 

[DGreenwood]

So, what time is deadline? 4 pm?

Still could be some movement in the roster today...possibly a lot.

I think you're off by an hour (it's 5pm):

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-gordon-hayward-enes-kanter-player-option-deadlines-revealed#:~:text=Apparently Hayward and Kanter have,to Yahoo Sports' Keith Smith.&text=Celtics Talk-,NBA Draft Preview: Favorite targets or will,Celtics trade all their picks?

Or is he off by an hour in the other direction? ESPN says it's 3pm today.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30337631/boston-celtics-gordon-hayward-extend-deadline-player-option-thursday-sources-say

 

[DJnVa]

Upshot: I'm wrong either way.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Or is he off by an hour in the other direction? ESPN says it's 3pm today.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30337631/boston-celtics-gordon-hayward-extend-deadline-player-option-thursday-sources-say

It's 5pm, ESPN's original report from Lowe says 5pm as does yahoo, cbs, and basically all the writers on twitter, I assume that article is just a typo.
View: https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1328797564511064064


5pm is the deadline leaguewide for options this year (Hayward's contract language had moved his up). 3pm is the deadline for certain unguaranteed contracts that automatically guarantee (not sure if the Celtics have any that fit that group).

 

[lexrageorge]

It's 5pm, ESPN's original report from Lowe says 5pm as does yahoo, cbs, and basically all the writers on twitter, I assume that article is just a typo.
View: https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1328797564511064064


5pm is the deadline leaguewide for options this year (Hayward's contract language had moved his up). 3pm is the deadline for certain unguaranteed contracts that automatically guarantee (not sure if the Celtics have any that fit that group).

I've heard conflicting info on Theis' contract, so he may fit into that group. The other date I've heard for Theis is 11/21:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/boston-celtics-team-salary/
It's academic, as Theis $5M is going to be guaranteed this season no matter what. The only other non-guaranteed contract is Green's, but that doesn't guarantee until early 2021.

FWIW, I believe today is also the day for Kanter to exercise his opt-out, and for the Celtics to guarantee Semi's 2021 salary. And the deadline to extend Wanamaker a QO.

 

[Saints Rest]

There's no way they guarantee Semi, is there? Or do they need him as trade ballast?
And Pritchard replaces BW, yes?

 

[lexrageorge]

There's no way they guarantee Semi, is there? Or do they need him as trade ballast?
And Pritchard replaces BW, yes?

I don't see any reason to guarantee Semi; his role can be replaced by G. Williams and Langford. The $1.7M in trade ballast doesn't make sense under current circumstances unless there is a trade already worked out.

I also don't see a role for Wanamaker on this team.

 

[Marbleheader]

I'm really torn on what I want to happen. Part of me wants him to opt in and make a run. I guess it depends on the return. The only thing I don't want is for Danny to sign him for 3-4 years at $25M+, so that's probably what will happen.

 

[the moops]

I'm really torn on what I want to happen. Part of me wants him to opt in and make a run. I guess it depends on the return. The only thing I don't want is for Danny to sign him for 3-4 years at $25M+, so that's probably what will happen.

Not sure why we wouldn't want him to sign for that. If they sign him, it would seem that they are not concerned about the tax as much as we thought. And a team with Gordon Hayward on it is better than a team without

 

[bsj]

Its weird to me that decisions that likely involve hundreds of millions and were known would have to happen for a long time are still coming down to the last 2 hours

 

[Cellar-Door]

Not sure why we wouldn't want him to sign for that. If they sign him, it would seem that they are not concerned about the tax as much as we thought. And a team with Gordon Hayward on it is better than a team without

yeah that would be a nice deal, Hayward is worth that, and it would be valuable in trades down the line

 

[jmcc5400]

I'm really torn on what I want to happen. Part of me wants him to opt in and make a run. I guess it depends on the return. The only thing I don't want is for Danny to sign him for 3-4 years at $25M+, so that's probably what will happen.

It's funny, that's exactly what I do want to happen.

yeah that would be a nice deal, Hayward is worth that, and it would be valuable in trades down the line

Exactly.

 

[DJnVa]

Its weird to me that decisions that likely involve hundreds of millions and were known would have to happen for a long time are still coming down to the last 2 hours

If there are potential trades in the works there's a lot of moving pieces, and some teams would have needed to see how the draft shook out before deciding.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

There is zero reporting around this today, is there? No idea whether that means anything but annoying!