Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!

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This team has the potential to make the Finals depending on how the next few days shake out. Ainge may feel like the talent difference between Turner and Theis may be part of the difference that gets them into that round.
 

Jimbodandy

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Fair enough, not durability. I won't quibble with valuable (although that can mean more than money), but the rest I'll stand by. Turner is a better player because he's bigger, is better at staying on the court (for a couple of reasons), is a better three point shooter, is a better shot blocker (yes there's more to defense than shot blocking), and is significantly younger. I'm also pretty confident Theis has been put in a position to succeed the last few years playing fewer minutes against more favorable matchups with good coaching. I'm not sure the same can be said for Turner. Theis is absolutely as good as he's going to get, based on his age and limited minutes. Put him in a new system and Turner still has upside (and he's pretty solid right now).
I think that you're partly right.

Theis was a better player than Turner last year. But Theis has also been playing in a system that uses him well and only asks him to do things that he can do, to guys that he can do them to (generally). The question remains as to whether Turner in such a system, with a better coach has a higher ceiling than Theis. I think so, but some don't. And even the ones that do, well some of them just don't value center play to 18MM a year unless the guy is Wilt and Russell's love child.
 

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This team has the potential to make the Finals depending on how the next few days shake out. Ainge may feel like the talent difference between Turner and Theis may be part of the difference that gets them into that round.
Was it Adebayo who won the Miami series? Or was it the outside shooting of Butler, Duncan Robinson, and Tyler friggen Herro?

I don't see how Turner makes us any better in that matchup.
 

benhogan

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I think that you're partly right.

Theis was a better player than Turner last year. But Theis has also been playing in a system that uses him well and only asks him to do things that he can do, to guys that he can do them to (generally). The question remains as to whether Turner in such a system, with a better coach has a higher ceiling than Theis. I think so, but some don't. And even the ones that do, well some of them just don't value center play to 18MM a year unless the guy is Wilt and Russell's love child.
well put Jimbo

Being a 5 for CBS means setting a lot of screens for Kemba, Tatum, Brown (and now Nesmith). I'd rather have a handful of 5s like Theis, Baynes, TL and Grant that cost a combined $15MM then allocate $18-20MM on Myles Turner

Indy is screwed. Myles Turner and Sabonis can't play together. If Turner is so damn good they can keep him and hand over Sabonis. I'd be fine paying him $18MM/yr
 

Euclis20

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Was it Adebayo who won the Miami series? Or was it the outside shooting of Butler, Duncan Robinson, and Tyler friggen Herro?

I don't see how Turner makes us any better in that matchup.
The biggest and most consistent mismatch all series was Bam on whomever was guarding him, and his explosion at the end of game 6 is what killed us. The Celtics had a brief lead at the start of the 4th quarter, then Bam had 10 points, 7 rebounds and 4 assists to close out the game. For the series, he lead the Heat in points, rebounds, assists and steals (and was 1 block behind Crowder), while shooting 61% from the field. Those other guys all had some moments and games, but from start to finish, Bam was their most important player.

Certainly debatable if Turner gives the Celtics a better chance, but Bam was the biggest reason why Miami won, with Hayward's injury a close 2nd.
 

nighthob

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I think that you're partly right.

Theis was a better player than Turner last year. But Theis has also been playing in a system that uses him well and only asks him to do things that he can do, to guys that he can do them to (generally). The question remains as to whether Turner in such a system, with a better coach has a higher ceiling than Theis. I think so, but some don't. And even the ones that do, well some of them just don't value center play to 18MM a year unless the guy is Wilt and Russell's love child.
The problem is that Turner is a pretty bad screener, and that’s a huge part of the job asked of the Cs here. Turner is great anchoring zones with his shot blocking ability. His defense out in space is much more shaky. And while he did have that one year where he was good from three point land, he’s been mostly average.

That’s not a $54 million player. That’s a $15 million player. Now if Pritchard were attaching firsts to the Turner deal to compensate the Celtics for helping him out, fine. But otherwise Turner is going to force some hard choices on Boston financially. I don’t want to see Marcus leaving in two years because paying him will suddenly cost them around $80 million due to luxury taxes.
 

Cellar-Door

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QFT.

I’m open-minded, but if Myles Turner and a TPE is the best Danny can do, we should just let GH walk.
I don't like Turner, but this is an awful take.
Look at the Bucks, scrambling because they let a guy walk and now can't find ways to add talent.

I don't like Turner, but I'd rather have him and the TPE, then if needed move him along somewhere than just be locked into the current team for the next 3-5 years
 

mauf

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I don't like Turner, but this is an awful take.
Look at the Bucks, scrambling because they let a guy walk and now can't find ways to add talent.

I don't like Turner, but I'd rather have him and the TPE, then if needed move him along somewhere than just be locked into the current team for the next 3-5 years
If the C’s commit GH’s salary slot (or a big part of it) to another player, they won’t be able to re-up Marcus Smart in two years. That’s fine if Danny can acquire a difference-making player, but I don’t see why anyone would part with that kind of talent for the right to pay Gordon Hayward. I’d love to be wrong.

I think it’s crazy to take on a shitty contract like Turner’s 3/54 in the current environment and just assume that you’ll find someone to take it off your hands a year from now. Danny shouldn’t trade for anyone he wouldn’t be happy to have on the roster for the remainder of his contract.

Also, I think you are underestimating the value of the non-taxpayer MLE. Do you think non-contenders that are over the cap will be eager to add salary? I don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if Danny gets a player nearly as good as Hayward for the MLE, then adds another one after next season before going into the tax in 2022-23.

Full disclosure: I don’t think Hayward is as good as the majority of folks here do.
 

Swedgin

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If the C’s commit GH’s salary slot (or a big part of it) to another player, they won’t be able to re-up Marcus Smart in two years. That’s fine if Danny can acquire a difference-making player, but I don’t see why anyone would part with that kind of talent for the right to pay Gordon Hayward. I’d love to be wrong.

I think it’s crazy to take on a shitty contract like Turner’s 3/54 in the current environment and just assume that you’ll find someone to take it off your hands a year from now. Danny shouldn’t trade for anyone he wouldn’t be happy to have on the roster for the remainder of his contract.

Also, I think you are underestimating the value of the non-taxpayer MLE. Do you think non-contenders that are over the cap will be eager to add salary? I don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if Danny gets a player nearly as good as Hayward for the MLE, then adds another one after next season before going into the tax in 2022-23.

Full disclosure: I don’t think Hayward is as good as the majority of folks here do.
I am with you on Turner, but have you looked at the FA class? Who exactly is in play for the MLE that is nearly as good as GH?
 

Average Game James

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I am with you on Turner, but have you looked at the FA class? Who exactly is in play for the MLE that is nearly as good as GH?
Gallinari would be interesting and sounds like he could be had for the full MLE. Not as good as Hayward, but Turner + Gallinari might be.

Edit: I've also been trying to do the math on whether the Cs could trade Hayward for Oladipo in a sign and trade and then sign Gallinari with the MLE while staying under the apron (I think that works if they waive Semi and trade Kanter, but it's close). Gives them something back for this year, and in theory could do a S&T with Oladipo after next season, or just let him walk and not have to go way into the tax to resign Smart.
 
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TripleOT

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Celtics won 62.9% of their regular season games with Hayward, and 63.3% without the past two seasons.

Is it that much of a stretch to think the team would win at least as much with a decent MLE FA who can actually stay healthy over Hayward?
 

ehaz

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Is there a way to make a Hayward S&T for Sabonis work instead of Turner?

What kind of assets would you need to give up for Indy to play ball?
 

BigSoxFan

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Is there a way to make a Hayward S&T for Sabonis work instead of Turner?

What kind of assets would you need to give up for Indy to play ball?
Assets we can’t trade/don’t have. Sabonis is a 24 year-old 18/12/5 All Star. He is their best player and not going anywhere.
 

Pilgrim

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If they can get one or two decent rotation players for Hayward, or re-sign him, or even just get his his trade exception, I think the bench is going to be fine. I still think the most likely outcomes are all pretty good. Walking away as a straight FA deal is really the only horrible outcome, in which case I think that bench is awful for a team with semi-realistic title hopes. It all comes down to how likely it is for him to go to NY or ATL without us even having a chance to salvage things. How worried are we that thats whats going to happen?
 

the moops

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Gallinari would be interesting and sounds like he could be had for the full MLE. Not as good as Hayward, but Turner + Gallinari might be.
Gallo is not signing for the MLE. He will likely be sign and trade to someone.

And while I think a Gallo + Turner is far more ideal than just Hayward, it is unlikely to happen and would cost more than Haywards 34 million.
 

nighthob

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He can also play 30 minutes per game without fouling out. How many times in the playoffs did Brad need to go with some funky lineup becasue Theis had 5 fouls in the 3rd or whatever?
Do you know why? Because he consistently fails to set proper screens. He's like really bad at it. So Theis and Grant William are still going to be on the floor here because someone has to do it well. Especially with the amount of double screen action Boston runs.
 

mcpickl

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Celtics won 62.9% of their regular season games with Hayward, and 63.3% without the past two seasons.

Is it that much of a stretch to think the team would win at least as much with a decent MLE FA who can actually stay healthy over Hayward?
Why do we do stuff like this?

Boston won 63% of their games with Jaylen Brown, and won 78% without Jaylen Brown the past two seasons.

Is it that much of a stretch to think the team would win at least as much with a decent MLE FA who can actually stay healthy over Brown?

Yes, it's a stretch. For Brown and Hayward.
 

nighthob

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I would agree that Boston will survive Hayward's exit simply because Tatum and Brown continue to improve and Hayward's role would continue to shrink anyway. But the winning percentages with/without are irrelevant. Boston is just a 50-55 win team with or without Hayward. Now, without Tatum they would take a monster hit, as he's their gravitational center on offense and their roving engine of destruction in the passing lanes. Anyone else is expendable under the right circumstances.
 

Jimbodandy

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Why do we do stuff like this?

Boston won 63% of their games with Jaylen Brown, and won 78% without Jaylen Brown the past two seasons.

Is it that much of a stretch to think the team would win at least as much with a decent MLE FA who can actually stay healthy over Brown?

Yes, it's a stretch. For Brown and Hayward.
Yeah we did this with Kyrie too.

Nobody gets maintenance days against the Sixers on Christmas day. Guys sit when we're playing tomato cans.
 

Average Game James

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Gallo is not signing for the MLE. He will likely be sign and trade to someone.

And while I think a Gallo + Turner is far more ideal than just Hayward, it is unlikely to happen and would cost more than Haywards 34 million.
Could just be BS, but he has said winning is more important than a contract. Dude has made $135mn in his career, but never made it past the first round of the playoffs. If the Hawks throw 2-3 years at north of $20mn a year at him, he probably goes to Atlanta. But absent a sign and trade, the Cs are the only contender that could even go to the full MLE. Depending on how LT offers look, it's not completely insane (e.g. it's only 90% wishful thinking) to think he could look for a 1+1 at lower money with a contender then hit FA again next year.
 

benhogan

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Assets we can’t trade/don’t have. Sabonis is a 24 year-old 18/12/5 All Star. He is their best player and not going anywhere.
It was only a season ago that Turner started over Sabonis. Many around here rated Turner > Sabonis last Summer

Indy is absolutely stymied with $18MM allocated to both Turner and Sabonis. Plus they have last years 1st rounder Bitadze and Leaf on the roster. Pritchard has to move one of Turner or Sabonis to balance their roster.

They get zero love from any potential top-notch Free Agents. The only high-level player that would welcome playing there is Gordon Hayward. He is their unicorn. If Danny tosses in Romeo and they find a 3rd team to take a Indy contract they may be inclined to offer Sabonis. A lineup of Turner/Hayward/Warren/Brogdon/Oladipo with a developing Romeo (to eventually replace Oladipo) is better than their situation now.

If I'm Danny I don't pick up the Indy hotline until they start with Sabonis.
 

BigSoxFan

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It was only a season ago that Turner started over Sabonis. Many around here rated Turner > Sabonis last Summer

Indy is absolutely stymied with $18MM allocated to both Turner and Sabonis. Plus they have last years 1st rounder Bitadze and Leaf on the roster. Pritchard has to move one of Turner or Sabonis to balance their roster.

They get zero love from any potential top-notch Free Agents. The only high-level player that would welcome playing there is Gordon Hayward. He is their unicorn. If Danny tosses in Romeo and they find a 3rd team to take a Indy contract they may be inclined to offer Sabonis. A lineup of Turner/Hayward/Warren/Brogdon/Oladipo with a developing Romeo (to eventually replace Oladipo) is better than their situation now.

If I'm Danny I don't pick up the Indy hotline until they start with Sabonis.
And many here were obviously wrong. Sabonis is not going anywhere despite the poor fit with Turner. I'm sure they'd love to have Hayward but not at the expense of arguably their best player.
 

benhogan

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And many here were obviously wrong. Sabonis is not going anywhere despite the poor fit with Turner. I'm sure they'd love to have Hayward but not at the expense of arguably their best player.
That's fine. I'm more than happy for Danny to extend Gordon here and move Kemba to NY
 

the moops

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And many here were obviously wrong. Sabonis is not going anywhere despite the poor fit with Turner. I'm sure they'd love to have Hayward but not at the expense of arguably their best player.
I am still on the Turner >>> Sabonis wagon. Sabonis cannot defend the 5, and he is not a floor spacer on offense. He has a nice offensive game otherwise and is an excellent rebounder.
 

Jimbodandy

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I am still on the Turner >>> Sabonis wagon. Sabonis cannot defend the 5, and he is not a floor spacer on offense. He has a nice offensive game otherwise and is an excellent rebounder.
As for former "biggest Turner fan on SoSH", I wish you the best in taking over the crown.

Much of my love for Turner is based on what I think that a good system could do for him offensively and defensively. He has tools and potential that could elevate him well beyond where he is now. I'm 1000% convinced of that.

However, Sabonis is now and will likely be a better player going forward. He's a plug and play modern big who does most things better than Turner and will likely be adding the three as a real weapon soon enough. He is also the same age as Turner, with remaining upside.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I am still on the Turner >>> Sabonis wagon. Sabonis cannot defend the 5, and he is not a floor spacer on offense. He has a nice offensive game otherwise and is an excellent rebounder.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's taking and hitting 3s next season. It's coming.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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The Ringer with a timely article on why a contender would be happy to have Turner, with emphasis on (1) defense, and (2) three point shooting and general offensive efficiency.

On his defense:
Defense remains the most difficult part of the sport to measure with precision, but various available indicators point to Turner’s abilities on that end of the floor. Turner impresses with traditional stats; he led the league with 2.7 blocks per game in 2018-19. He impresses with shot data, allowing opponents to shoot just 51 percent near the basket last season, an elite mark. (For reference, Rudy Gobert was at 48 percent, Davis at 50.) And he impresses most of all with advanced stats, as ESPN’s real plus-minus and Jacob Goldstein’s player impact plus-minus both rate Turner among the league’s best defenders, worth around three points per 100 possessions.

Even if those numbers oversell Turner’s presence a bit, he’s clearly a stout defender, sufficiently springy to challenge shots at the rim and sufficiently fleet of foot to maintain tight pick-and-roll coverage. Many bigs with shooting range struggle to compete as well on the defensive end, but Turner can function as the lone big man in a lineup without its defense imploding.

On the offensive end:
The other half of Turner’s appeal is the ability to stretch the floor from the center position. Much like Lopez, Turner has transformed his shot selection to follow the broader league patterns, taking metaphorical steps forward by taking a few literal steps back. As a rookie, Turner took 36 percent of his shots from long 2-point territory (16-plus feet), according to Basketball-Reference tracking data; only 3 percent of his shots that season were 3s. Those proportions have since been inverted, with Turner taking 43 percent of his shots from 3 last season—a much healthier distribution.
Turner has a fluid shooting stroke, leading to solid career performances from both 3-point range (36 percent) and the free throw line (77 percent). Active players with similar percentages from those areas include Dragic again, plus Jrue Holiday, D’Angelo Russell, and successful stretch bigs like Serge Ibaka and Marc Gasol.
Mentioned as his detriments are his lack of any assists/distribution skills, and not mentioned are the points discussed in the Port Cellar regarding things like screens, and of course the cap situation.
 

Average Game James

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The Ringer with a timely article on why a contender would be happy to have Turner, with emphasis on (1) defense, and (2) three point shooting and general offensive efficiency.

On his defense:



On the offensive end:


Mentioned as his detriments are his lack of any assists/distribution skills, and not mentioned are the points discussed in the Port Cellar regarding things like screens, and of course the cap situation.
Seeing Scary Terry as #2 on Turner's shot distribution similarity rank is maybe not the most heartening thing. But I'm talking myself into Turner more.
 

Mooch

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The Ringer with a timely article on why a contender would be happy to have Turner, with emphasis on (1) defense, and (2) three point shooting and general offensive efficiency.

On his defense:



On the offensive end:


Mentioned as his detriments are his lack of any assists/distribution skills, and not mentioned are the points discussed in the Port Cellar regarding things like screens, and of course the cap situation.
That's a good article. If you put Turner at the 5 around with Tatum, Brown and Smart, you can kind of hide a 5th guy like Kemba in crunch time defensively. I kind of like this.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I like Turner and get some of the hate but the "below average 3 point shooter" excuse doesn't really make sense to me. I'm sure for his position, he's above average. I'd rather have Hayward but if that's not really an option, I'd gladly take Turner on the C's. I think CBS and the C's would be able to take better advantage of Turner's skill set than Indiana.

I'd guess Jayson and Jay will be getting more of an offensive load this year too and I think Turner would be more willing to accept a lesser role on offense than Hayward but I could be wrong. Plus the C's are build in a way they can pretty much cover any of Turner's flaws.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I get the sense that our opinion of Turner is lower than the consensus around the league. I could be off-base, have just seen a lot more glowing praise for a possible Hayward/Turner swap outside of the SoSH bubble.

I don't think it should be overlooked that he has been kind of awkwardly paired with another center for four of his five seasons.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm starting to think I'm too harsh on Turner. I don't know that he's better than Theis, but I think if Hayward tells you he wants out, Turner isn't a bad piece to get back.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I get the sense that our opinion of Turner is lower than the consensus around the league. I could be off-base, have just seen a lot more glowing praise for a possible Hayward/Turner swap outside of the SoSH bubble.

I don't think it should be overlooked that he has been kind of awkwardly paired with another center for four of his five seasons.
It's lower on the C's board because Hayward is better and we'd be "losing the trade."

If the C's are really up against the wall re Hayward, they could have done a lot worse than Turner. He actually fills a team need and the contract could have value as salary filler or even become a bargain if he improves a little.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I'm starting to think I'm too harsh on Turner. I don't know that he's better than Theis, but I think if Hayward tells you he wants out, Turner isn't a bad piece to get back.
He’s got a very good multi-year DRPM, and I think D-PIPM as well, though that info’s not public anymore. The adjusted +/- stuff might be a little wonky due to the rotations with Sabonis there, but I think there’s good evidence that he’s a solid, impactful defender who has made strides on the perimeter the past two years. Of course, all the same is true of Theis, who’s also a lot cheaper, but I’m with Jed in that I think the consensus here doesn’t really reflect the broader outlook on Turner. I think he’s generally regarded as a neutral to somewhat positive contract with upside due to his age and shooting.
 

Euclis20

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It's lower on the C's board because Hayward is better and we'd be "losing the trade."

If the C's are really up against the wall re Hayward, they could have done a lot worse than Turner. He actually fills a team need and the contract could have value as salary filler or even become a bargain if he improves a little.
Indeed, although I think it's a bit ironic that while Theis is more "valuable" (Theis at $5M is more valuable than Turner at $18M), you could definitely argue that, given their potential roles on future Celtics' teams, Turner at $18M is more valuable than Hayward at $30M+.

I get the sense that our opinion of Turner is lower than the consensus around the league. I could be off-base, have just seen a lot more glowing praise for a possible Hayward/Turner swap outside of the SoSH bubble.

I don't think it should be overlooked that he has been kind of awkwardly paired with another center for four of his five seasons.
I feel like almost everyone here has been ignoring this. Put him on a team where he's the #1 rebounder and there is more floor spacing, I think his game starts looking a lot better. He's in a bad situation, and the only thing I'm sure of is that he's not as good as Sabonis.
 

mcpickl

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While I think Turner the player is overrated, the bigger issue is the contract. If he was on a one year deal, I might just say eh he's overpaid but whatever we'll take him and move on.

The contract is really bad though, especially when decent centers can be found for half that price or less every season as the position has been de-emphasized. Add in the Celtics current contracts and taking him at 3/54 seems absurd to me.

In 2021-22 Celtics would have

Kemba 36M
Tatum 28M, 33.5M if he makes all NBA this year
Jaylen 25M
Turner 18M
Smart 14M

So just those 5 guys are at 121M/126.5M when the cap will be at 112M and you'd only be 10-15M short of the luxury tax with the rest of the roster to fill. That looks untenable.
 

Cellar-Door

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While I think Turner the player is overrated, the bigger issue is the contract. If he was on a one year deal, I might just say eh he's overpaid but whatever we'll take him and move on.

The contract is really bad though, especially when decent centers can be found for half that price or less every season as the position has been de-emphasized. Add in the Celtics current contracts and taking him at 3/54 seems absurd to me.

In 2021-22 Celtics would have

Kemba 36M
Tatum 28M, 33.5M if he makes all NBA this year
Jaylen 25M
Turner 18M
Smart 14M

So just those 5 guys are at 121M/126.5M when the cap will be at 112M and you'd only be 10-15M short of the luxury tax with the rest of the roster to fill. That looks untenable.
The Celtics are going to go well into the tax in 21-22, and multiple years after I am sure they are already planning on it. Also they'll have 5 recent picks (Williams x2, Langford, Pritchard, Nesmith) likely at about $15M total (plus next year's first at 2-3M), so you'd be looking at 11 players including likely your 5 starters and most of your top rotation players and right around the tax.
 

Cesar Crespo

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While I think Turner the player is overrated, the bigger issue is the contract. If he was on a one year deal, I might just say eh he's overpaid but whatever we'll take him and move on.

The contract is really bad though, especially when decent centers can be found for half that price or less every season as the position has been de-emphasized. Add in the Celtics current contracts and taking him at 3/54 seems absurd to me.

In 2021-22 Celtics would have

Kemba 36M
Tatum 28M, 33.5M if he makes all NBA this year
Jaylen 25M
Turner 18M
Smart 14M

So just those 5 guys are at 121M/126.5M when the cap will be at 112M and you'd only be 10-15M short of the luxury tax with the rest of the roster to fill. That looks untenable.
I'd be surprised if Kemba is around after this year, if he's even around for this one.
 

mcpickl

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The Celtics are going to go well into the tax in 21-22, and multiple years after I am sure they are already planning on it.
I agree.

I just don't think they're willing to go that far into the tax for Myles Turner at 18M.

There's a huge difference between going into the tax, and Golden Stating into the tax
 

Cellar-Door

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I agree.

I just don't think they're willing to go that far into the tax for Myles Turner at 18M.

There's a huge difference between going into the tax, and Golden Stating into the tax
Yeah I edited my post, but given the sheer number of players on rookie deals, I don't think we'll be anywhere near GS levels. 11 roster spots would be the 5 you mentioned plus 6 guys on rookie deals. Add an MLE, maybe another few cheap vets.. not really too deep.

Also, if Turner is the only major piece coming back for Hayward, you can probably sign someone in the MLE and still get under the cap for this year (Dump Kanter and Carsen, cut Semi) which would reset.
 

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If he's not, he's likely going to be replaced by another expensive-ish guard.

Probably not an expensive-ish Turner.
Center isn't the only place to hide MLE pay guys. If Kemba is moved during this contract, it's hardly a given that his replacement is an expensive guy.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If he's not, he's likely going to be replaced by another expensive-ish guard.

Probably not an expensive-ish Turner.
Turner not being on next year's team could be true even if he is on the team this year. At that point he'd be 2/35 and should be easy to move. The 76ers just got rid of Al Horford so worst case scenario, I'm sure the C's could get rid of Turner even if it means getting rid of a few picks.

edit: I also think paying 6'0 guards max money is kinda stupid too. Or what Jimbodandy is saying above.
 

shoelace

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Jun 24, 2019
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I agree.

I just don't think they're willing to go that far into the tax for Myles Turner at 18M.

There's a huge difference between going into the tax, and Golden Stating into the tax
Was posting this at the same time as Cesar Crespo. The Hawks traded a first round pick to pay Clint Capela a similar amount over that time period and I don't think anyone believes Capela is a better player than Turner. If they're worried about the tax, they can just move on from him after the season. Having Turner and Theis as the center combination for next season is pretty solid. Even if you think Turner and Theis are interchangeable, Theis is good, and being able to have a player of that caliber on the floor at all times is certainly an upgrade from last season.
 

mcpickl

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Center isn't the only place to hide MLE pay guys. If Kemba is moved during this contract, it's hardly a given that his replacement is an expensive guy.
It's not a given, no. But I think it's way more likely they'd want to spend their money on a lead ballhandler if Kemba left than having that money tied up in Myles Turner.

Turner not being on next year's team could be true even if he is on the team this year. At that point he'd be 2/35 and should be easy to move. The 76ers just got rid of Al Horford so worst case scenario, I'm sure the C's could get rid of Turner even if it means getting rid of a few picks.

edit: I also think paying 6'0 guards max money is kinda stupid too. Or what Jimbodandy is saying above.
So, take Turner on just to possibly have to attach assets to him to get him off the books? I'd much rather keep the assets, never put him on my books, and just use the full MLE and BAE right now.

Was posting this at the same time as Cesar Crespo. The Hawks traded a first round pick to pay Clint Capela a similar amount over that time period and I don't think anyone believes Capela is a better player than Turner. If they're worried about the tax, they can just move on from him after the season. Having Turner and Theis as the center combination for next season is pretty solid. Even if you think Turner and Theis are interchangeable, Theis is good, and being able to have a player of that caliber on the floor at all times is certainly an upgrade from last season.
Yes, it's possible a team as desperate as Atlanta was to add talent might take Turner off your hands next year. I wouldn't want to hope for that to happen, especially since Capela was pre-covid and the expectation was a much higher cap going forward. Not a gamble I'd want to make.
 

benhogan

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The Ringer with a timely article on why a contender would be happy to have Turner, with emphasis on (1) defense, and (2) three point shooting and general offensive efficiency.

On his defense:



On the offensive end:


Mentioned as his detriments are his lack of any assists/distribution skills, and not mentioned are the points discussed in the Port Cellar regarding things like screens, and of course the cap situation.
the best part from the placed piece was the obvious Bam comp

With Sabonis out of the Pacers’ playoff series against the Heat, Turner played budding star Adebayo to a draw.

Bam was a +55 in that 4 game sweep. without reviewing the tape I doubt it was a draw
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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So, take Turner on just to possibly have to attach assets to him to get him off the books? I'd much rather keep the assets, never put him on my books, and just use the full MLE and BAE right now.
That's worse case scenario and could happen with any contract in the NBA. I'd guess the most likely scenario ends up with Turner as salary filler in a bigger trade.
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
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That's worse case scenario and could happen with any contract in the NBA. I'd guess the most likely scenario ends up with Turner as salary filler in a bigger trade.
There is no way this is the most likely scenario with the Celtics having three bigger contracts than his, assuming Tatum extension, next year.

I'd be stunned if they had Turner they'd trade him for an even bigger salary.
 
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