Grantland

[Spacemans Bong]

Most people on this forum who offer commentary on the stock market and so on are licensed advisors or people with real skin in the game. Even then, as a layperson it's hard not to roll your eyes when they say "Yes, the stock market went up this morning. I took a dump at 9:30. THIS IS NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH".
 
Also, baseball writing only became Keri's main gig pretty recently - he was a financial journalist for years before that. So I think he has a very good understanding of the ethics surrounding this field. I don't read the WSJ very often because why would I, but I've read it enough to know every single article doesn't lead off with "This is not investment advice blah blah blah".
 
What it comes down to really is that you disagree with his premise. Which is cool but let's not forget that's not what the article is about, it's about the Dodgers making a bunch of big-name acquisitions that didn't really fill the holes they needed to fill on their team (which Keri turned out to be dead-on about).

 

[Tokyo Sox]

Eh, he didn't say you shouldn't do it (diversify).
 
He said doing it spreads out the risk.  Which, by logical extension, means that not doing it is a lot riskier.
 
It's a stretch to me to say he's really giving advice as opposed to more a theory. 

 
He spends one sentence saying you "might be able to avoid some risk", and then the next two full paragraphs saying what a horrible idea it is to diversify.  He kind of makes a joke about how your kids won't be able to go to Harvard if you do diversify, but then negates the joke-iness by saying "Honestly, that's being kind."
 
I have to agree with London that it's irresponsible.  Will there be a lawsuit because of it?  Probably not. but people have brought and won far more frivolous lawsuits than that.  It's irresponsible in part because it's totally unnecessary.   He would have been fine if he'd just said something like, "Anyone who has ever dabbled in investing has heard about the basic tenet of diversification.  For year two of Grantland's over/under column, I'm saying the f-word to the d-word."  But he goes way beyond his mandate, and the whole intro is unnecessary and irresponsible.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

There's too much thought that has gone into this.
 
Who gives a shit if he's right or wrong?
 
The point was that LS sent an unprovked tweet questioning Jonah Keri's premise.
 
Jonah Keri responded (which is already more than most other writers would do) saying that he worked for a financial magazine and felt like he had a leg to stand on. Doesn't sound very douchy to me, but whatever.
 
LS retorts with,  "in that case you should know better than to throw out broad based advice", which is condescending at best. 
 
Jonah tells him to pound sand, which seems pretty justified IMO.
 
The point wasn't whether Keri was correct with his statement or not. It was that LS kind of went out of his way to talk down to Keri and then complained that he didn't take his medicine lying down.
 
This isn't the first time we've heard people on SoSH complain because a writer defends himself. It's weird.

 

[Tokyo Sox]

Who gives a shit if he's right or wrong?
 
The point was that LS sent an unprovked tweet questioning Jonah Keri's premise.

 
Me?  Most of the other people that discussed it, who sought to play down the egregiousness of Keri's overstep?
 
Questioning London's relative level of douchiness seems to be the pertinent discussion point to you, but I really don't care about that or the Twitter exchange.  I just agree with London that it's an irresponsible bit of journalism by Keri.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

There's too much thought that has gone into this.
 
Who gives a shit if he's right or wrong?
 
The point was that LS sent an unprovked tweet questioning Jonah Keri's premise.
 
Jonah Keri responded (which is already more than most other writers would do) saying that he worked for a financial magazine and felt like he had a leg to stand on. Doesn't sound very douchy to me, but whatever.
 
LS retorts with,  "in that case you should know better than to throw out broad based advice", which is condescending at best. 
 
Jonah tells him to pound sand, which seems pretty justified IMO.
 
The point wasn't whether Keri was correct with his statement or not. It was that LS kind of went out of his way to talk down to Keri and then complained that he didn't take his medicine lying down.
 
This isn't the first time we've heard people on SoSH complain because a writer defends himself. It's weird.

  I agree. This is turning into the Pete Abraham thread all over again. Some twerp (sp?) or tweeter makes a weird or condescending remark to a writer then gets all bent out of shape when the writer defends himself. If you make an unprovoked, negative  comment about someone, be prepared if they respond. Do not act all butthurt and surprised.     I thought SOSH was better than this. Maybe London Sox or whoerver it might be should just avoid the writer in the future.

 

[LondonSox]

Errr who is butthurt, I think what he wrote is irresponsible, his response was I used to be a financial journalist. I've asked financial journalists they have agreed that saying that without any protective language is very dangerous for the writer and publisher.
Which was my reason for contacting him, to warn him/ i want expecting a debate to disagree with his premise.

He can tell me to piss off if he likes, and I don't really care. I just think once a writer starts to flaunt the rules and feel like he can say whatever he wants its a bit of a turn off. This is a thread to discuss writers like him, from grantland.

Last poster, my tweet was "really enjoy your work, but just wanted to point out you might want to be careful about x due to legal risks of giving generalised investment discussion"
So im glad you feel free to guess that my tweet was "weird or condescending" and that I got "all bent out of shape" because I'm not sure where you it that impression. I do finance for a living, I wrote to a baseball writer writing about finance. He told me essentially to mind my business. End of.
The twitter conversation has very little to do with anything, I don't agree with what he wrote, I think he misquoted people or misrepresented them (admittedly due to the space he wrote it in a balanced argument was hardly likely), for an opening introduction to an unrelated piece which I regard as poor journalism. It's a little like dropping a "hey if we cut the military budget by 50% the budget deficit would be much better, hey you know who else halved their budget? Miami, let's talk about them".

I don't really get the reaction. Is this not something valid for discussion in a thread about grantland?

 

[TheGazelle]

Errr who is butthurt, I think what he wrote is irresponsible, his response was I used to be a financial journalist. I've asked financial journalists they have agreed that saying that without any protective language is very dangerous for the writer and publisher.
Which was my reason for contacting him, to warn him/ i want expecting a debate to disagree with his premise.

He can tell me to piss off if he likes, and I don't really care. I just think once a writer starts to flaunt the rules and feel like he can say whatever he wants its a bit of a turn off. This is a thread to discuss writers like him, from grantland.

Last poster, my tweet was "really enjoy your work, but just wanted to point out you might want to be careful about x due to legal risks of giving generalised investment discussion"
So im glad you feel free to guess that my tweet was "weird or condescending" and that I got "all bent out of shape" because I'm not sure where you it that impression. I do finance for a living, I wrote to a baseball writer writing about finance. He told me essentially to mind my business. End of.
The twitter conversation has very little to do with anything, I don't agree with what he wrote, I think he misquoted people or misrepresented them (admittedly due to the space he wrote it in a balanced argument was hardly likely), for an opening introduction to an unrelated piece which I regard as poor journalism. It's a little like dropping a "hey if we cut the military budget by 50% the budget deficit would be much better, hey you know who else halved their budget? Miami, let's talk about them".

I don't really get the reaction. Is this not something valid for discussion in a thread about grantland?

 
It's valid.  People just disagree with you.

 

[JBill]

Their NBA coverage has been fantastic: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9204808/grantland-2013-nba-playoffs. Daily analysis from Lowe, Kirk Goldsberry shot charts, features, and the GIF heavy and amusing NBA Shootaround posts ("Burke: Wow. You heard it from the man himself. Thanks, Pop. Popovich: Fuck you, Doris."). Good stuff.

 

[ifmanis5]

I like Barnwell but this piece/list feels more like an ESPN-level column and not worth of Grantland...
 
LINK: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9488632/bill-barnwell-names-best-qbs-nfl-history
 
His chief arguments seem to quote MVP and All Pro votes. There is only one actual stat table and it's at the very end. Pretty poor effort from what should have been a deeper, more illuminating dive.

 

[DJnVa]

I like Barnwell but this piece/list feels more like an ESPN-level column and not worth of Grantland...
 
LINK: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9488632/bill-barnwell-names-best-qbs-nfl-history
 
His chief arguments seem to quote MVP and All Pro votes. There is only one actual stat table and it's at the very end. Pretty poor effort from what should have been a deeper, more illuminating dive.

 
Well, he addresses all that:
 

When I talk about a guy holding the Quarterback Championship Belt, it's the guy who would be considered by most fans of the league as the best quarterback in football at the time, the guy who would pass the Bob Ryan test of being the person you would nominate to play quarterback against a group of alien invaders. That doesn't mean that he has to have the best statistics in the league, although good numbers obviously help. He doesn't need to play for the Super Bowl winner, but that also doesn't hurt. One superb year from one guy isn't always enough to knock another guy down; if Tony Romo had marginally better numbers than Tom Brady next year, that wouldn't be enough for most people to say that Romo was a better quarterback than Brady, so he wouldn't take the belt away from Brady next year (were he the titleholder). Finishing high up in the balloting for Pro Bowls and the All-Pro Team is usually a good hint of a player's reputation.

 
So, yeah there's no stats and he's looking at things like Pro Bowls, but, to his mind, that's what he's measuring, so he's faithful to what it is.

 

[ifmanis5]

Well, he addresses all that:
 
 
 
So, yeah there's no stats and he's looking at things like Pro Bowls, but, to his mind, that's what he's measuring, so he's faithful to what it is.

Pro Bowls and MVP voting mean little to nothing. Peter King and Ron Borges thought you were good, ergo you were good? Ridiculous.
Dig into some actual numbers Barnwell, do some homework, or put down your pen. Any idiot can Google All Pro teams.

 

[Leather]

I just finished Dave Eggers' most recent novel ("A Hologram for the King"). On a whim, I read his acknowledgments.

He thanked and referenced a lot of people, including other writers that helped give him writing advice, and people from other projects that didn't directly relate to the book.

There was no mention of Grantland or Simmons.

I'm not saying there's bad blood, but what the fuck happened?

 

[Dotrat]

Pro Bowls and MVP voting mean little to nothing. Peter King and Ron Borges thought you were good, ergo you were good? Ridiculous.
Dig into some actual numbers Barnwell, do some homework, or put down your pen. Any idiot can Google All Pro teams.

Absolutely--it would have been a pretty awful piece no matter who wrote it, but considering the high level Barnwell usually achieves, it was not just awful, but kind of baffling. Saying you can make a pretty good case for Peyton Manning over Brady and proceeding to tick off MVPs and Pro Bowls is what I'd expect from a Colts fan at my office, not from a typically thoughtful and analytical writer like Barnwell. Too much of that piece read as if Pete Prisco stole Barnwell's laptop.

 

[JimBoSox9]

Funny, I got a very "Simmons thought the title belt idea was the awesomest thing ever and is making me write this column" vibe from it, myself.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I agree the 'title belt' feels like Simmons; perhaps Barnwell disagreed and that's why he used half-ass inputs like all-pro selections?  I agree that he is capable of better.

 

[JimBoSox9]

I agree the 'title belt' feels like Simmons; perhaps Barnwell disagreed and that's why he used half-ass inputs like all-pro selections? I agree that he is capable of better.


Isn't that what you do when your boss hands you a shit assignment?

Uh, me neither.

 

[ifmanis5]

Is Barnwell now just a puppet regime for Simmons?
His last 4 columns are: NFL worst contracts, Josh Freeman (Bill's former man-crush), the QB championship belt and 2 parts of NFL trade values. Has Barnwell run out of his own ideas or is he being forced to do Bill's gimmicky garbage?

 

[JimBoSox9]

It's also July.

 

[ifmanis5]

It's also July.

Exactly, which means it's a great time to roll out your passion projects without the rigors and demands of the news cycle of the regular season.
 
Got an off the wall theory you'd like to work through? Plenty of time to stretch your legs in July. Got a new stat that would take a long time to explain, too long to explain in October when there's much Tebow news afoot? Trot it out there, space is no issue today. Show what you got, and not merely regurgitate already tired Simmons shtick. Then again, he may have a gun to his head. A Teen Wolf Tango and Cash JBug shaped gun.

 

[The Social Chair]

I enjoyed this Wesley Morris piece on MLB and marketing.
 
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9528255/baseball-swagger-problem

 

[JimBoSox9]

Keri is a surprisingly good newsman. He writes a tight synopsis. Between Keri, Lowe, and Barnwell, they have three guys in the major sports who take the approach of trying to be the authoritative 360-degree summation of the topic at hand. It's an impressive sports backbone.

 

[JBill]

This is Brian Phillips writing lots of words about a USMNT 2002 photoshoot and it almost makes me cry with laughter: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9529241/usmnt-new-york-s-magazine-greatest-photo-shoot-history

 

[dirtynine]

It's such an easy target, I kind of can't give him credit for it.  Those photos (much like the one of the inaugural MLS uniforms) are a pretty old joke.  However, Phillips is a pretty funny dude and many are seeing it for the first time I'm sure. 

 

[mauf]

I don't normally listen to podcasts, but last week's "B.S. Report" podcast with Nate Silver and Malcolm Gladwell was excellent.
 
It didn't lose any relevance by being several days old -- the topics were all big picture stuff, rather than the headlines of the day (there was considerable discussion of Silver's move to ESPN and Jeff Bezos's purchase of the WaPo, but it was smart analysis, not rehash of the 5 Ws that we all got from the initial news reports).

 

[reggiecleveland]

What is this about:
http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2013/08/bostons_farewel.html
 

Rodriguez will be booed mercilessly this weekend, and it has little to do with the latest news. He is Enemy No. 1 in Boston because of…well, a laundry list of reasons. But if there has been a bigger tool shed in the history of the game, please present him. We have yet to witness a man this clueless and Machiavellian since Bill Simmons.
 

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Just to save anyone else the hassle, that was written by the beyond-useless Eric Wilbur, so I'd recommend not feeding the troll by clicking through.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I read the Career Arc of A-Rod today and something really bothered me. It said that as he left Seattle and signed the big contract with Texas, he went from...to the casual sports fan...a good/great baseball player to "holy shit, he signed for how much? "

I mean, I know around that time I considered myself a pretty big sports fan...but look back on our now, I was in HS and knew jack shit! And even I was like, holy shit, this guy has a chance to bee one of the best ever

 

[Leather]

Eh, I recall the signing. The amount he was going to get/ultimately got was a huge story into itself. Stories of private jet trips being thrown in, hotel suites, etc...

That was a huge year for free agents, and it was really the year of the mega contract. Arod went first, then the sox and Yanks fought over Mussina, then the Sox signed Manny as a backup. Mike Hampton and even fucking Denny Neagle got huge contracts.

It was really, IIRC, the year that people really appreciated how fucking huge the contracts were getting.

 

[ifmanis5]

A TWO part article AND a podcast on NBA team names. What a colossal waste of time.
 
I did enjoy Barnwell's goal line article and his momentum article. That's the type of stuff I expect from him. The GL writers should put Bill's suggestions in the trash and do their own passion projects as often as possible.

 

[kenneycb]

It's the summer and there is not much to write about regarding the NBA or NHL.  I'm shocked McIndoe has been able to churn out one or two articles a week.

 

[americantrotter]

A TWO part article AND a podcast on NBA team names. What a colossal waste of time.
 

To each his own.  I got a chuckle out of it and enjpyed it more than most other NBA missives.
 
As was said many times, it's August in the NBA.  Even Zach mentioned in the podcast that he was struggling with an idea for anything this month anyways.  He also had some strong opinions.

 

[Leather]

I'm all for an in-depth article on how teams got their names, and whether it makes sense for the given locale.   That's kind of interesting if done in at least a semi-serious manner and relies on objective information.
 
But when, in the second entry, the author starts attributing his own, subjective, visions of what a word is meant to evoke, and uses that to discredit a team name, it's just stupid. 
 
I'm referring to this:
 

That's not the intent of the name, of course. The name "Cavaliers" is meant to bring up images of swashbuckling swordsmen embarking on some heroic task, probably wearing ridiculous puffy shirts and flowing pants...Swashbucklers aren't uncool, though they are a little effete. The extended swordfight between Inigo Montoya and Westley from The Princess Bride is pretty badass. But everything about them is dated, and swords haven't felt quite as threatening since that famous scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark. The double-C alliteration doesn't do enough to lift "Cavaliers" above this spot.
 

 
Somehow, I doubt that the blue collar city of Cleveland intended "Cavalier" to refer to men wearing puffy shirts or to, um, guys engaged in a sword duel while not on horses.   The team name isn't the fucking "Swashbucklers".  "Cavalier" can refer to any warrior that fights on horseback, from the Crusades through the Napoleonic Wars through the Civil War.  
 
It's also clear that the author got his information straight from Wikipedia, if you compare his entry on the history of the name with Wiki's, complete with referencing Brett Tomko.
 
Also:
 

"..[Oklahoma City suggestion] Thunderbirds (both military and animal connotations)..."
 

 
Fucking really?
 
 
And finally, how the Lakers aren't the worst name is just beyond me (unless he's a Lakers fan).  The name was meant for Minnesota (where there are, you know, lots of lakes and lake-based recreation), but because they won a lot of championships, the L.A. group kept the name for the association. 
 
Oh, what the fuck:
 

7. Indiana Pacers
I get that this suffers, in theory, from the same problem as "Lakers" — i.e., the question of what in the hell a "Pacer" actually is. The team would probably answer that a Pacer is simply a man who plays for the professional basketball team in Indianapolis.
 

 
Gee, what is Indiana famous for?  Hmmm...Something to do with...cars?  Racing?  Oh, yea, the fucking most famous race in America, and one of the most famous in the world, gets run there every year.   I wonder if there's a famous component of that event that might be the basis for the name of the pro team located in the same city.
 
 
EDIT: Oh, I see the author went back (clearly after the fact) and fixed it to add:
 

The name is meant to evoke both the Indianapolis 500 (the "pace car" terminology), the fast back-and-forth nature of basketball, and the state's deep tradition of harness racing. The Laker-Pacer caveat is real, and keeps Indy from a higher ranking, but this is a damn good team name.
 

 

[kenneycb]

It's a ranking of the coolest NBA names.  It's wholly subjective by premise, much like Keri's ballpark rankings a month or so ago.

 

[ifmanis5]

I can only imagine a Grantland conference call...
 
Bill: Remember that scene in Teen Wolf?
Lowe: (Rolls eyes, checks email): .... Uh...yeah sure....
Bill: And that quote from Rounders!
Barnwell: (Rolls eyes, checks Facebook): ...Err, yeah...Great one, BS.
Bill: What about a ranking of NBA team names?
Lowe: (Rolls eyes, starts texting) ...Uh.. yeah that could be something...
Bill: (Intense pause) No, really.
Lowe (Puts down Blackberry): (*Sigh*) You're the boss.

 

[DJnVa]

The NBA articles would seem to be good articles to write during the NBA season.

 

[dirtynine]

Using good writers to execute Bill Simmons' ideas has not proved any more appealing to me than when Simmons himself writes them. 

 

[kenneycb]

I can only imagine a Grantland conference call...
 
Bill: Remember that scene in Teen Wolf?
Lowe: (Rolls eyes, checks email): .... Uh...yeah sure....
Bill: And that quote from Rounders!
Barnwell: (Rolls eyes, checks Facebook): ...Err, yeah...Great one, BS.
Bill: What about a ranking of NBA team names?
Lowe: (Rolls eyes, starts texting) ...Uh.. yeah that could be something...
Bill: (Intense pause) No, really.
Lowe (Puts down Blackberry): (*Sigh*) You're the boss.

That's just absurd.  Why would anybody write something so dumb?  
 
I mean who the hell has a Blackberry anymore?

 

[Leather]

It's not that the list is subjective, it's more that it was based on inaccuracies and reveals a lack of anything more than the barest of research.
 
I mean, not knowing that a Thunderbird is A) NOT a real animal, and B) is one of the most famous icons for Native American culture (which would be very appropriate for OK) is just lazy or dumb or both.

 

[Shelterdog]

I can only imagine a Grantland conference call...
 
Bill: Remember that scene in Teen Wolf?
Lowe: (Rolls eyes, checks email): .... Uh...yeah sure....
Bill: And that quote from Rounders!
Barnwell: (Rolls eyes, checks Facebook): ...Err, yeah...Great one, BS.
Bill: What about a ranking of NBA team names?
Lowe: (Rolls eyes, starts texting) ...Uh.. yeah that could be something...
Bill: (Intense pause) No, really.
Lowe (Puts down Blackberry): (*Sigh*) You're the boss.

 
It looks like they're having a bunch of writers do Bill Simmons style articles--Greenwald did a TV actor trade machine, Barnwell had the QB Championship belt article.  

 

[The Social Chair]

 
It looks like they're having a bunch of writers do Bill Simmons style articles--Greenwald did a TV actor trade machine, Barnwell had the QB Championship belt article.  

 
This has all started since the NBA season ended. I would assume Simmons is in the Grantland office more now than he was for the first half of the year.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Somehow, I doubt that the blue collar city of Cleveland intended "Cavalier" to refer to men wearing puffy shirts or to, um, guys engaged in a sword duel while not on horses.   The team name isn't the fucking "Swashbucklers".  "Cavalier" can refer to any warrior that fights on horseback, from the Crusades through the Napoleonic Wars through the Civil War.
 

 
I don't know. This was the Cavs' first logo:
 

 

[ifmanis5]

That's just absurd.  Why would anybody write something so dumb?  
 
I mean who the hell has a Blackberry anymore?

All Disney employees, that's who.

 

[TroyOLeary]

 
I don't know. This was the Cavs' first logo:
 

 
Also:
 
http://www.cleveland.com/plain-dealer-library/index.ssf/2010/03/cleveland_cavaliers_are_named_by_an_eastlake_man_who_wins_contest_the_plain_dealer_front_page_from_1.html
 

 
He drew a swashbuckler and wrote an essay -- about how the name "represents a group of daring, fearless men, whose life's pact was never surrender, no matter what the odds" -- and submitted them.

 

[Orel Miraculous]

 
I don't know. This was the Cavs' first logo:
 

 
Not to mention that this is their current logo (note, again, the style of the sword). 
 

 
Drleather's ignorance of the fact that the Cavs have almost always used Dumasesque imagery is either lazy or dumb or both.

 

[ifmanis5]

 
Not to mention that this is their current logo (note, again, the style of the sword). 
 

 
Drleather's ignorance of the fact that the Cavs have almost always used Dumasesque imagery is either lazy or dumb or both.

Richard Dumas played for the Suns, not the Cavs.

 

[Leather]

 
Not to mention that this is their current logo (note, again, the style of the sword). 
 
 
 
Drleather's ignorance of the fact that the Cavs have almost always used Dumasesque imagery is either lazy or dumb or both.

 
That'd be great, except I'm not writing a fucking article on the topic and posing myself as an expert.
 
I mean, you can see the difference, right?   Even if I concede that you're correct (which you appear to be, mea culpa), the fact that you have to provide evidence to support his point (because he failed to) only supports the fact that the article was kind of half-assed? 
 
Finally:  Not knowing about the Thunderbird is lazy or dumb. 

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 A Teen Wolf Tango and Cash JBug shaped gun.

 
As someone who is friends with "JBug" I would like to see such a gun.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

You guys can crap on Simmons all you want, but Grantland has become a hell of a site. Every day there are three or four or more really great things and the podcasts are generally all good (molly lambert excluded). I think the weak link is Barnwell, who's analysis is repetitive and his predictions have bordered on awful. Keri, Lowe and the soccer guys are great. The hollywood stuff is great. Masked man is great.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Who denies Simmons his due on Grantland?

 

[gtg807y]

NO ONE DENIES THIS
 
edit: b/c that's something Simmons says in columns occasionally, you see.