In-season NBA news thread

E5 Yaz

polka king
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I'm trying to figure out the angle the lawyer is taking by focusing on her age
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm trying to figure out the angle the lawyer is taking by focusing on her age
Yeah, that reads like a statement from a caricature of a shitty lawyer. Unfortunately, there are no lawyers on this site who can opine whether or not this statement is actually good or not.
 

DGreenwood

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I think he's trying to establish that she's an experienced professional and he's a troubled, very young person. Her experience and training makes her ideally suited to help someone like Josh but instead she saw an opportunity to victimize him.

I'm not saying he's right, I have no idea what actually happened. But i believe this is the angle that that Josh's lawyer is taking.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think he's trying to establish that she's an experienced professional and he's a troubled, very young person. Her experience and training makes her ideally suited to help someone like Josh but instead she saw an opportunity to victimize him.

I'm not saying he's right, I have no idea what actually happened. But i believe this is the angle that that Josh's lawyer is taking.
Feels like a weak hand if that's the best angle you can devise as the defense counsel. Where it will get interesting here is if she has receipts on her communication with the Spurs to prove their inactivity. I have to imagine she does.
 

brendan f

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I think he's trying to establish that she's an experienced professional and he's a troubled, very young person. Her experience and training makes her ideally suited to help someone like Josh but instead she saw an opportunity to victimize him.
It sounds also like the defense is trying to claim the "exposing" was done unbeknownst to Primo, and that it was the professional's job to step in and say, "hey, please put that away." Next we will probably hear that he was under some form of hypnosis and it was the psychologist's methodology in the sessions that caused him to do it.
 

NDame616

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I'd venture to guess the lawyer will also say he felt vulnerable and that he was in a safe space when he may have inadvertently exposed himself. But he's focusing on their ages because "he's a young troubled child and she is an experienced professional "
 

DGreenwood

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Feels like a weak hand if that's the best angle you can devise as the defense counsel. Where it will get interesting here is if she has receipts on her communication with the Spurs to prove their inactivity. I have to imagine she does.
Correct. If she has documentation that she communicated the issue to the Spurs and they did nothing with the info, that's a problem. Or if the Spurs then tried to work with Josh and he did nothing then it's back on him. At this point we really don't know what happened.

It sounds also like the defense is trying to claim the "exposing" was done unbeknownst to Primo, and that it was the professional's job to step in and say, "hey, please put that away." Next we will probably hear that he was under some form of hypnosis and it was the psychologist's methodology in the sessions that caused him to do it.
Right, the defense position is that he didn't realize his junk was showing outside of his basketball shorts. That is a thing that happens in gym/locker room environments. If that was happening, and she documented it but never addressed it with Josh directly, that's a problem. Therapists are supposed to be good at communicating with their patients.


Again, I have no opinion on what actually happened. But if what Josh's lawyers are saying is 100% true (no guarantee that this is the case) then it seems like a reasonable defense.
 

joe dokes

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Right, the defense position is that he didn't realize his junk was showing outside of his basketball shorts. That is a thing that happens in gym/locker room environments. If that was happening, and she documented it but never addressed it with Josh directly, that's a problem. Therapists are supposed to be good at communicating with their patients.
Again, I have no opinion on what actually happened. But if what Josh's lawyers are saying is 100% true (no guarantee that this is the case) then it seems like a reasonable defense.
The "nine times" part makes that defense somewhat difficult. And I'm not quite ready to equate the team's therapist's location with a "gym/locker room environment." I've also been in the gym a fair amount over the last 40 years. I haven't seen a lot of junk hanging out. (Locker room is different, of course)
 

DGreenwood

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The "nine times" part makes that defense somewhat difficult. And I'm not quite ready to equate the team's therapist's location with a "gym/locker room environment." I've also been in the gym a fair amount over the last 40 years. I haven't seen a lot of junk hanging out. (Locker room is different, of course)
I wouldn't say I've seen it a lot, definitely not nine times, but I have seen it.
If he's seeing the therapist directly before or after practice, in his practice attire, I think it's fair to equate the session to "gym environment".
He says he was laying on a sofa in gym shorts during sessions. Depending on the orientation of the sofa and her orientation, I could see a scenario where the situation repeats itself, if she's not address it.

I feel like I'm coming across as taking Josh's side, which I am not. I have no idea what actions she took when she saw his junk (talking to Josh about it, talking to the org about it). That information should all come out. But if the facts do show that the defense is correct that Josh was never told that he was inadvertently exposing himself, I think the defense has a pretty good position.
 

Marciano490

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Ah, the infamous “my dick is too big for my shorts” defense. Maybe it’s true. I guess it’s just about the only thing that could possibly stick to the wall.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The Primo lawsuit is a good example of why the Celtics handled Ime's situation as they did...
 

radsoxfan

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I think he's trying to establish that she's an experienced professional and he's a troubled, very young person. Her experience and training makes her ideally suited to help someone like Josh but instead she saw an opportunity to victimize him.

I'm not saying he's right, I have no idea what actually happened. But i believe this is the angle that that Josh's lawyer is taking.
My first thought was maybe trying to imply he’s 19, she’s 40, no chance he’s attracted to her or sexually interested in her? Not sure really.

Entire statement is aggressive and odd. Sounds like a hack.
 
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Marciano490

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I always thought exposing yourself was more about power than lust anyways, but I haven’t looked into it much.
 

Leskanic's Thread

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“Dr. Cauthen’s allegations are either a complete fabrication, a gross embellishment or utter fantasy.”

Is it "either"ing a list of three? Is it trying to differentiate between a fabrication and a fantasy? Is it the use of the word "fantasy" to imply she was actually just dreaming of seeing his dick? Or is it the "this absolutely did not in any way happen, or it did but you're blowing it out of proportion" vibe?

Whatever it is, this is the sentence for me.
 

joe dokes

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I always thought exposing yourself was more about power than lust anyways, but I haven’t looked into it much.
As with most so-called "sex crimes." But that doesn't stop the mouth-breathers or those seeking to curry favor with them to keep the focus on sex.

“Dr. Cauthen’s allegations are either a complete fabrication, a gross embellishment or utter fantasy.”
Is it "either"ing a list of three? Is it trying to differentiate between a fabrication and a fantasy? Is it the use of the word "fantasy" to imply she was actually just dreaming of seeing his dick? Or is it the "this absolutely did not in any way happen, or it did but you're blowing it out of proportion" vibe?
Whatever it is, this is the sentence for me.
I think the "fantasy" part of it suggests that the reference to age was a suggestion that he would never show his junk to some old woman because *his* desires are elsewhere. (which brings us back to Marciano's point).
 

nighthob

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Harden out for a month is going to put the Sixers in a really awful spot. They’d legitimately be at risk of lottoing out.
 

snowmanny

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I always thought exposing yourself was more about power than lust anyways, but I haven’t looked into it much.
Sometimes it’s about getting a shock response so as to verify there’s something there.
For the viewer, Indifference is supposedly the way to go when presented with such a situation.
 

brendan f

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Right, the defense position is that he didn't realize his junk was showing outside of his basketball shorts. That is a thing that happens in gym/locker room environments. If that was happening, and she documented it but never addressed it with Josh directly, that's a problem. Therapists are supposed to be good at communicating with their patients.
I was being cheeky in my response. If the allegations are true and I see no reason to distrust the therapist, I don't see how this is on her in any way. If I walk down the street and a cop stops me for indecent exposure, I can't say "well, nobody told me, I didn't realize it."

I think the "fantasy" part of it suggests that the reference to age was a suggestion that he would never show his junk to some old woman because *his* desires are elsewhere.
I didn't read it that way. I read fantasy more literally as an act of imagination, as opposed to reality. In other words, she simply made it up. It hardly distinguishes from "fabrication," but that shows how weak a claim the defense has.

The Primo lawsuit is a good example of why the Celtics handled Ime's situation as they did
Absolutely
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Harden out for a month is going to put the Sixers in a really awful spot. They’d legitimately be at risk of lottoing out.
I could be wrong but I believe they owe their unprotected 2023 first rounder to Brooklyn from the Harden trade, as Brooklyn had the option to take it either in 2022 or defer to 2023, and they opted to defer.
 

BigSoxFan

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I could be wrong but I believe they owe their unprotected 2023 first rounder to Brooklyn from the Harden trade, as Brooklyn had the option to take it either in 2022 or defer to 2023, and they opted to defer.
Here's the breakdown per RealGM...

2023 first round draft pick from Houston or Philadelphia (outgoing swap, Brooklyn outgoing to Houston or Utah)
  • Houston will receive the more favorable of its 2023 1st round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 1st round pick;
  • Brooklyn will receive the more favorable of (i) the less favorable of its pick and the Houston pick and (ii) Philadelphia's 2023 1st round pick
  • Utah will receive the least favorable of the three
 

Swedgin

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My first thought was maybe trying to imply he’s 19, she’s 40, no chance he’s attracted to her or sexually interested in her? Not sure really.

Entire statement is aggressive and odd. Sounds like a hack.
That's exactly what is being alluded to.

I think he's trying to establish that she's an experienced professional and he's a troubled, very young person. Her experience and training makes her ideally suited to help someone like Josh but instead she saw an opportunity to victimize him.
If the real goal was to contrast his youth and inexperience with her experience and credentials you reference the number of years she has been licensed/practicing or her credentials - not her age.

Dr. Cauthen is a sports psychologist. If Primo 1) actually has a history of trauma/abuse and 2) disclosed that to her or the Spurs she would not be the one the one treating him (at least primarily) for those issues. Mental health professionals, like doctors and lawyers, specialize.

I feel like I'm coming across as taking Josh's side, which I am not.
Well the fact that you keep referring him to as "Josh" and the positions you have articulated certainly leave that impression.

I have no idea what actions she took when she saw his junk (talking to Josh about it, talking to the org about it). That information should all come out. But if the facts do show that the defense is correct that Josh was never told that he was inadvertently exposing himself, I think the defense has a pretty good position
First, this case is never getting tried to a jury. So you can dispense with the idea that "all the information will come out."

Second, at least with regard to the organization we do have information about that. The complaint details meetings with the Spurs - names and dates - regarding her complaints about Primo's behavior and what actions the Spurs took (or did not take) in response.

Third, lets imagine the Spurs and Primo's lawyers are completely incompetent and decide this is a case you should take to trial. Do you really think her testimony will be that she never told Primo to put his penis away.

At the end of the day, the statement is not a litigation strategy. Its a PR strategy and a poor one. The initial statement Primo issued and the response to the lawsuit are completely at odds tonally and in their approach. If you are going to go with "he needs help and is sorry", you stick with that, you don't accuser/victim blame.

Also worth mentioning, the Complaint references two other reported incidents of Primo exposing himself. I have seen mention of that elsewhere (allegedly staff at a hotel) not sure it has been discussed here. At least one other incident must have come to the Spurs' attention. All of the behavior referenced in Cauthen's complaint is from last season. Her allegations are not what lead the Spurs to release him.
 

terrynever

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Harden out for a month is going to put the Sixers in a really awful spot. They’d legitimately be at risk of lottoing out.
76ers’ defense will improve markedly if DeAnthony Melton is ready to play 30 minutes a night. Second in league in deflections. Maxey and Melton can share the ballhandling chores.
 

DGreenwood

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Also worth mentioning, the Complaint references two other reported incidents of Primo exposing himself. I have seen mention of that elsewhere (allegedly staff at a hotel) not sure it has been discussed here. At least one other incident must have come to the Spurs' attention. All of the behavior referenced in Cauthen's complaint is from last season. Her allegations are not what lead the Spurs to release him.
The above info is news to me and certainly supports the idea that the defense lawyer's statement is BS. I was also unaware that the therapist had released details about reporting the incident to the Spurs. Upthread somewhere I tried to acknowledge that if that were the case it looks pretty bad for the Spurs and Primo. I guess that info was already out there and I had missed it.

Correct. If she has documentation that she communicated the issue to the Spurs and they did nothing with the info, that's a problem. Or if the Spurs then tried to work with Josh and he did nothing then it's back on him. At this point we really don't know what happened.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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76ers’ defense will improve markedly if DeAnthony Melton is ready to play 30 minutes a night. Second in league in deflections. Maxey and Melton can share the ballhandling chores.
It will be interesting to see if Harfen's absence helps PHI. Hope people have Maxey in their fantasy leagues.
 

chilidawg

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76ers’ defense will improve markedly if DeAnthony Melton is ready to play 30 minutes a night. Second in league in deflections. Maxey and Melton can share the ballhandling chores.
It'll be interesting to watch Philly and Brooklyn. Decent chance both improve without Harden and Irving, as talented offensively as both are.
 

terrynever

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It'll be interesting to watch Philly and Brooklyn. Decent chance both improve without Harden and Irving, as talented offensively as both are.
Agree, it will be fun to watch.
In Philly’s case, the 76ers haven’t run since Simmons gave up on hImself two seasons ago. Harden slowed them down, gave them a slower tempo that Embiid and Harris could handle. Now they can push it with Maxey and Melton at the controls. You need both guards running. Shake Milton and even Matisse Thybulle can run with the second unit.
The Nets have to let Simmons be himself and set the pace with his defense and rebounding. Ben can thrive without Kyrie hogging the ball. This is his chance. Sink or swim, Ben.
 

128

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It will be interesting to see if Harfen's absence helps PHI. Hope people have Maxey in their fantasy leagues.
I can't stand Harden or his game, but I acknowledge that he's an outstanding offensive player. The Sixers' bench blows already, so the idea that they're going to be better without him is a stretch, IMO. That said, Maxey is likely to put up some insane numbers.
 

BigSoxFan

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I can't stand Harden or his game, but I acknowledge that he's an outstanding offensive player. The Sixers' bench blows already, so the idea that they're going to be better without him is a stretch, IMO. That said, Maxey is likely to put up some insane numbers.
Yeah, I’ve been hammering Maxey overs when Embiid or Harden don’t play. He’s such an electric scorer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It'll be interesting to watch Philly and Brooklyn. Decent chance both improve without Harden and Irving, as talented offensively as both are.
Pick up Simmons now in Fantasy. Assuming he’s returning to his natural position.
 

lovegtm

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Oh, look, the annual John Collins trade discussions that never actually go anywhere. Looking forward to it!
The difference this time (imo) is that he fits really badly on-court with what they're doing, and they have committed hard to Murray + Trae, and are out picks from the Murray deal. I can see them wanting to re-stock a bit, using picks to get better-fitting vets.
 

Fishy1

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The difference this time (imo) is that he fits really badly on-court with what they're doing, and they have committed hard to Murray + Trae, and are out picks from the Murray deal. I can see them wanting to re-stock a bit, using picks to get better-fitting vets.
Yup. They're paying him nearly Jaylen Brown money to take 10 fga a game.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yup. They're paying him nearly Jaylen Brown money to take 10 fga a game.
His curves look like a guy who stopped trying once he got extended. I'm sure that some of his regression might be what they're doing in Atlanta and how the franchise is evolving, but damn he seems to have peaked already and is already trending down.

DARKO thinks that he kept improving up through some point last year, I think largely because of defense, but has cratered since. BBRef advanced numbers, looks like he peaked when the ink was still wet on his extension.
 

BigSoxFan

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The difference this time (imo) is that he fits really badly on-court with what they're doing, and they have committed hard to Murray + Trae, and are out picks from the Murray deal. I can see them wanting to re-stock a bit, using picks to get better-fitting vets.
I hope you’re right and I think you may be. The addition of Murray does change things. Honestly, I wonder if the Spurs would be interested.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Oh, look, the annual John Collins trade discussions that never actually go anywhere. Looking forward to it!
I expect it to happen now that he has contract certainty as opposed to being a guy that teams didn’t know if they could/would re-sign.