Sure, it'd be cheaper. But MSG always sells out and even in the David Lee/Nate Robinson years had a better atmosphere than 90% of NBA arenas. Knicks tickets have never been and never will be selling for two cents against a playoff team.
Jacksonity......or the Knick thread
- Thread starter Rocco Graziosa
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90% is definitely an exaggeration in their lean years, but MSG is certainly one of the best places to watch a basketball game in the world, and even when the Knicks are terrible, other team's stars seem to take a special delight in playing in Madison Square Garden. That said, it's my favorite place to watch a game hands down, so I'm biased.
Anyhow, my point with the Nets was more that since Prokhorov bought the team and the move to Brooklyn was finalized, there's been a lot of talk about the Nets as a threat to the Knicks and Prokhorov himself has made a few gestures (the billboard facing MSG, for instance) that suggest he believes that as well. So far, however, his tenure as owner has been pretty uneventful and there's even talk of him selling off the team if his campaign for the presidency of Russia begins to look legitimate. If they miss out on Howard, they're gonna be in a lot of trouble. I think most people, including Nets fans, expected the Nets to be further along in the process of becoming respectable than they are now. Meanwhile, even before Jeremy Lin came along the cheapest seats in the Garden were about 50 dollars, and that was to see an entirely unlikable 8-15 team that was incredibly ugly to watch. There's definitely a lot of subjectivity to my opinion, but I have a feeling that if Howard doesn't end up in New Jersey I'm gonna be going to some Brooklyn Nets games next year for 15 bucks.
I went to a game against the Magic in January or February of 2009-- Gallinari's rookie year. For $42, I got two seats in the upper 300s, two sodas and two hot dogs through some David Lee promotion. That team had no more talent or chance of making the playoffs than the Nets do today, and the Garden had a great feel to it, mostly out of excitement to see Dwight Howard. The show he put on dunking during warmups added a level of unexpected energy to the game. When it became close down the stretch due to Gallo hitting a few 3's, the roof came off like it was Game 6 of a second round. Knicks fans are hopelessly optimistic. We believe that every journeyman who comes along and makes a few baskets will flourish under the spotlight of the Garden if only we root hard enough. The Jeremy Lin story is the rarest example of that irrational exuberance coming to fruition.
There's a few reasons why the Knicks outdraw the Nets; no one wants to go to Newark while Cory Booker sends out press releases touting a month without murders, the fact that the Garden is so eminently convenient to get to from anywhere in the tri-state area, the star power of the Garden, corporate sponsorships. But mostly, to me, its that one franchise has a doggedly optimistic fan base forged over generations, and the other relies on a series of marketing gimmicks and shoot-the-moon business plays.
There's a few reasons why the Knicks outdraw the Nets; no one wants to go to Newark while Cory Booker sends out press releases touting a month without murders, the fact that the Garden is so eminently convenient to get to from anywhere in the tri-state area, the star power of the Garden, corporate sponsorships. But mostly, to me, its that one franchise has a doggedly optimistic fan base forged over generations, and the other relies on a series of marketing gimmicks and shoot-the-moon business plays.
To add to that, I went to the first game Tracy McGrady played for the Knicks in 2010 against Oklahoma City. McGrady hadn't played more than 8 minutes in a game for 8 months and wasn't supposed to play more than 10 minutes or so. He was acquired strictly for his expiring deal and yet, that night every time he sat down the Garden chanted his name. He ended up scoring 26 in a close game that went to overtime even though Oklahoma City was 10 times the team the Knicks were. Knicks fans have been starved for good basketball for so long that they tried to talk themselves into Tracy McGrady in 2010. I honestly just don't see that same level of devotion in New Jersey (not that anybody is disagreeing with me at this point).
NJ really hurt themselves by having their games on Sportschannel for so long, which was an extra pay channel while the Knicks were on MSG with normal cable. NJ still wouldn't be as popular, but if they'd been on for free during the Kidd/K-Mart/Kittles back-to-back FInals heyday, the gap would at least be narrowed a bit.
Please explain. Not that I don't believe you, but it's hard to understand how they could bring all those sprawling seats closer to the action. Or at least give the illusion thereof.
I was only there once, so I will defer to anyone who knows better, but my impression was that the new skyboxes replaced the top tier, so all of the actual seats seem to be closer. I was in the 20th row behind the basket (corporate freebies given to a friend), and I only go once a year if that, so maybe I'm wrong, but that was my impression.
In other news:
Frank Isola@FisolaNYDN
Knicks closing in on a deal for JR Smith, Daily News has learned. Need to cut a player. Two weeks earlier and it could have been Jeremy Lin
In other news:
Frank Isola
Knicks closing in on a deal for JR Smith, Daily News has learned. Need to cut a player. Two weeks earlier and it could have been Jeremy Lin
They moved the press box from the 100s center court to the 300s baseline, which brings more fans closer, and closed off the old "Willis Reed Tunnel" to put some more seats in. They improved the 100 level seating with better seats. The concourses are modern and way nicer (it used to be pretty bleak).
What remains to be seen is what happens when they add in the bar at the top level and skywalkway features. Are you turning it into something too amusement-parkish? Right now, the "feel" of the place remains basically like last year. Its all just a little nicer.
As for J.R. Smith--I'm pretty excited by this. Becomes the knock down 2 we need to create space for the PnR and for Melo. Shumpert becomes a defensive specialist/energy guy. The question is what will happen to Fields' minutes--he's been playing very very well off of Lin, I don't want to see him get lost in the shuffle.
The "old" Garden was basically just a giant circle with 4 levels of seating and luxury boxes hanging from the ceiling above the 400 level. There was a walkway between the 200 and 300 level seats that went all the way around the arena, but now behind the baskets you can't walk around because luxury boxes were put much lower and the 300 level seats left there have been pushed forward eliminating the walkway. On one side they created a sort of ledge that comes out over the 300 level seats with 5 or 6 rows of seats and bar style seating at the top like the Monster seats at Fenway. So basically, the seats on either side of the court are all exactly the same, but seats behind the basket have all been shifted forward so there is definitely a more compact feel than in the past. I don't know how it effected the number of seats, but they've done a pretty good job at incorporating more modern amenities into an old building. That said, since only half of the renovations are done, there's an entire side of 400 level seats that have no women's bathroom and only one tiny 4 urinal men's bathroom. In addition, you have to walk to the new bar style area, whatever it's called, to get a beer from there. You can really tell how much went into the renovations by comparing one side of the Garden to the other at this point.
edit: just saw the post above mine. Didn't realize they moved the press box as well so seats on the side of the court are closer too.
This is how I'd go, without Baron and Harrellson:
C: Chandler (34), Amare (10), Jeffries (4)
PF: Amare (26), Melo (10), Jeffries (6), Novak (6)
SF: Melo (26), Fields (16), Novak (6)
SG: Fields (10), Smith (28), Shumpert (10)
PG: Lin (32), Shumpert (16)
total minutes:
Melo-36
Amare-36
Chandler-34
Lin-32
Smith-28
Fields-26
Shumpert-26
Novak-12
Jeffries-10
I'd cut Balkman. Bibby by all accounts has a good locker room presence, plus a vet who's been there before. He's getting 10 minutes a night max and we need some sort of backup point till Davis gets back.
Balkman has no relevance on this team. Where does he get minutes with a frontcourt of Melo/Chandler/Amare/Jeffries/Novak/Walker and Fields needing more minutes at the 3? Jordan is at least a project who could someday have a bit of trade value.
EDIT: Forgot about Bill Walker. Only reinforces the case.
Balkman has no relevance on this team. Where does he get minutes with a frontcourt of Melo/Chandler/Amare/Jeffries/Novak/Walker and Fields needing more minutes at the 3? Jordan is at least a project who could someday have a bit of trade value.
EDIT: Forgot about Bill Walker. Only reinforces the case.
I only caught it on the WSJ podcast, so I don't know the full details, but according to the Journal about two weeks ago, before Linsanity started, the Knicks had the most expensive resale tickets in the NBA. So yeah, MSG is always a draw.
Back to the Garden. Maybe all these upgrades just bridging the way to a new facility a few blocks west? It'll be awhile for sure, if and when...
http://www.nytimes.c...ner=rss&emc=rss
http://www.nytimes.c...ner=rss&emc=rss
I think that underestimates the energy that I think Brooklyn will put behind this team. Obviously, a better team will have better results. But long-term, I think there will be more "brand loyalty" in Brooklyn than in Manhattan. Brooklyn has a lot of "pride" in what it is. And I think they've been craving a team, any team, for a long time.
The guys at my corner deli are almost certainly going to become Nets fans.
I think the Nets is going to be /huge/ for Brooklyn.
If I were the Knicks, I'd offer Melo for Howard and see if I could swing a deal with Chandler to bring back a solid 3. Orlando might be willing to settle for Melo for Howard as it at least gives them some star power to draw fans as the team declines into mediocrity post-Howard.
Melo is not a championship caliber player. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't pass well, and he is not an efficient scorer. Howard is a championship caliber player.
Lin, 2, 3, Amare, Howard is a decent core to build around and would be devastating running the high pick and roll if the guys at the 2 and 3 slots are off-ball shooters.
Melo is not a championship caliber player. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't pass well, and he is not an efficient scorer. Howard is a championship caliber player.
Lin, 2, 3, Amare, Howard is a decent core to build around and would be devastating running the high pick and roll if the guys at the 2 and 3 slots are off-ball shooters.
According to Knicksblog.com, Balkman will be cut today to make room for Smith.
I would assume this means he'd make his debut Sunday against the Mavs.
Wow I am shocked JR choose the Knicks over the Clippers. That is fairly dumb
Edit - I think the Knicks could offer him more money.
Edit - I think the Knicks could offer him more money.
The only shocking thing will be when an NBA player takes less money. The Knicks could offer him twice the money, and a player option for next year (though he will make much more in FA, its nice insurance against an injury).
People need to stop saying this, it was way more true a few years ago. LeBron and Bosh took less money, as does any top free agent who switches teams. I'm guessing if it was solely about the money, Smith could have gotten more than a pro-rated $2.5M from a team that wasn't the Clippers or Knicks or Lakers.
He is going to cost himself a lot more money in the less short term. Starting at 2 for the Clippers would look a lot better than desperately fighting for minutes against Shumpert, Fields, Davis, Lin etc.
He really feels he is going to walk in and start over Fields...
I don't think the minutes will be too different, he's never played 28 minutes per game in his career, and the Clippers have Mo Williams, who is better than any of NY's other 2 guard candidates. He's probably not going to start over Fields, but that's because he makes more sense coming off the bench with Melo and Amare in the starting unit.
Anyway, very excited he picked NY, he's long been one of my favorite 15-20 players in the league.
Anyway, very excited he picked NY, he's long been one of my favorite 15-20 players in the league.
Fair. I guess the better way to look at it is that once a certain threshold is met, money is usually a bigger tiebreaker than market/situation/friendships. Jamal Crawford was one Knicks-related example (liked Portland and NY, Portland could offer more so he went there). I guess Smith could have gotten more from Minnesota or Indy--someone under the cap. But when he was clearly going New York or LA, the money mattered most.
He may feel that way, but the best role for him is to be the primary scorer on a second, defensive minded unit that includes guys like Shumpert, Jeffries, and Harrelson. We'll see how he takes to that.
I'm a little disappointed in the decision to cut Balkman. He seems like the ultimate locker room guy, and with the addition of another guard, Bibby shouldn't be seeing the floor at all this year. This may be an indication that the weird elbow infection Baron Davis has is going to keep him out longer than anticipated.
If that means he's the one who scores weed for the team, Smith can presumably take over that role now. :lol:
NY Times reporting that MSG and the Knicks have reached a deal. Let the Linolution be televised.
Any chance the Celtics take a look at Balkman? Seems like he'd be an upgrade over either Marquis or Sasha for the rest of this season and a better bet moving forward as a 10-15th man...
Balkman is a 4, and doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard 3's the way Marquis and Sasha can. On top of that, I'm not really convinced he'd be much of an upgrade over either.
/useless post
He's from (around) my home town, so presumably he can score everything for the entire team. As I stated before, and echoing your sentiments, I really like J.R.. Great player to come off the bench. The Knicks are really exciting right now. Can they take down the Heat? Why the hell not!
He's a sleeper!
I've always loved watching the instant offense guys like J.R. that can step off the bench and score 15 in a flash. It can be stressful for your own team since you have to live with the downs as well as the ups. Glad the Knicks got him over the Clips. Anything to hurt the C's in the standings is welcome at this point, as well as the negative effect (probably miniscule, but still something) on the LAC pick. As long as NY doesn't do something truly awful and win the title or something.
ESPN had a chance to take advantage of Linsanity tonight but they're televising Dallas at Philly instead of NO at NY. Wonder how far in advance they commit to games. I might have turned on NO at NY to see what all the fuss is about.
Regarding the Knicks trading for Howard, I don't see how it would work. I mean, I would do Amare for Howard straight up if Orlando wanted to, which they wouldn't (right?), but Melo for Howard doesn't make much sense. In that scenario, one of Chandler or Amare would have to go, and I think Chandler is a great player to have on the Knicks for the defense, a la what Garnett brought to the C's. Chandler and Howard would be a great combo I think, but who would trade for Amare at this point? It would IMHO, have to be Amare for a Carmello replacement. (Amare + Melo for Howard, I think I'm funny when I misspell Turkoglu... but I'm not, and Reddick would work, but would the Knicks be better? Lin/Davis, Reddick/Fields/Smith, I think I'm funny when I misspell Turkoglu... but I'm not, Howard, Chandler is not as good as Lin/Davis, Fields/Smith, Melo, Amare, Chandler) Therefore, I don't see a realistic scenario for the Knicks whereby acquiring Howard would actually make them better. Can anyone think of a multi-team trade that would make sense?
Edit - Melo is a really good player. His offensive ability will open the floor for everyone else on the Knicks. The Knicks are fine and don't NEED to do anything.
Edit - Melo is a really good player. His offensive ability will open the floor for everyone else on the Knicks. The Knicks are fine and don't NEED to do anything.
Chandler is a very good player. Howard is a great player. Chandler brings quality defense to the Knicks. Howard makes them a great defense overnight, even with D'Antoni coaching.
If Melo could bring back Howard, you have to pull the trigger on that. Chandler, as you point out, is a very good and valuable player and should be able to bring you back a quality wing from somewhere. (This would be a 3-team deal as otherwise the Knicks would be screwed from a bargaining standpoint.) Amare is not getting traded anywhere. No one wants that contract.
Very. Looks like Knicks are not getting any calls and they can't hit anything from 3.
also, not that i care too much, but it's nice to finally get these games on cable in new york again.