Juhann Begarin pick #45

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
4,992
Cultural hub of the universe
No love here for our newest C? I'd never heard of him (much like Yam), but another stashable 2nd rounder. Here's what Vecenie has to say:

"The idea here is betting on a guy with all the physical tools but none of the feel or necessary skills, yet, to play in the NBA. He should be a terrific driver but doesn’t have the polish or skill yet. He should be a great finisher due to his physicality but doesn’t have the craft. He should be a great defender but is still learning what he needs to do positionally. Basically, it’s a bet on a player who is extremely young learning how to use his tools. And indeed, Begarin’s tools are absolutely ridiculous. It’s hard to find guys who are this tall, with this strong of a frame, with this kind of length, who have his explosiveness out in transition as well as his body control. And he’s shown enough flashes to where he’s not just an athlete, but there is some upside in terms of how he plays. If I was a team that didn’t have a roster spot available, he’d be high on my list in terms of a stash option."

https://theathletic.com/2740956/2021/07/30/juhann-begarin-scouting-report-meet-the-celtics-pick-at-no-45/?source=dailyemail

Raw, high upside, stashable. Seems like a good use of 45 to me.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
28,250
One of these French national team members (or future French national team members) has to pan out, don't they?

Either that, or the Cs scouting staff love going to France for trips.
 

EL Jeffe

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2006
1,221
ESPN/Draft Express:

Juhann Begarin has outstanding physical tools, standing 6-foot-6 with a shredded 214-pound frame and a near 7-foot wingspan despite not turning 19 until August. His offensive game is a work in progress, particularly his ball-handling and shot-creation ability, while his jumper is prone to streakiness. When engaged, Begarin can be an outstanding defender, capable of slowing down guards and wings alike, although his intensity level fluctuates and he can still be somewhat naive off the ball.

Few players in his draft range share his upside, as he likely would have entered this upcoming season as a projected top-20 pick had he elected to withdraw his name from the draft at the deadline. Instead, Begarin intends to come to the NBA immediately and work his way up through the G League, unless the Celtics can convince him to reconsider that after summer league. -- Jonathan Givony
 

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
4,821
Dude really does have the ++tools. I wasn't able to follow prospects closely enough to form an opinion outside of a couple of high profile guys this year, but it's pretty obvious even from a brief YouTube search. Unlikely that he'll ever learn to play NBA basketball, but definitely the exact type of guy I like the FO to take a shot on (see my Paul Eboua posts from the past two years) later in the draft.

Also very happy with the Doogie Hauser, that dude can flat out shoot off of any action.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
31,143
I hope he agrees to stay stashed, but I love the idea of taking shots on very young guys with elite tools late in the draft
 

EL Jeffe

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2006
1,221
This is probably a better look at Begarin than the straight highlight videos of him dunking on people.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBscQFeOVI


You get a better idea of how raw he is. The Diallo comp at the end tracks for me (but I've always liked Diallo). Maybe a bit of a Kevin Porter Jr vibe, too. There's a wide range of outcomes for him, but if he makes it to the roster in the next year or two, it would probably be as a Chaos Energy Wing. Kind of like Nesmith this past season when the shot wasn't quite translating for him. He was throwing his body around, grabbing offensive rebounds, blocking shots, just kind of flying around the court and impacting the game (for better or worse).. Nesmith's shot will allow him to be more than that, but that could be one of Begarin's outcomes until (if) he improves the overall skill set and feel for the game.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
29,663
Agree with others, this is a good profile for Celtics to be drafting. I have not seen the actual player and just cross my fingers it works
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
17,665
Santa Monica
This is probably a better look at Begarin than the straight highlight videos of him dunking on people.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBscQFeOVI


You get a better idea of how raw he is. The Diallo comp at the end tracks for me (but I've always liked Diallo). Maybe a bit of a Kevin Porter Jr vibe, too. There's a wide range of outcomes for him, but if he makes it to the roster in the next year or two, it would probably be as a Chaos Energy Wing. Kind of like Nesmith this past season when the shot wasn't quite translating for him. He was throwing his body around, grabbing offensive rebounds, blocking shots, just kind of flying around the court and impacting the game (for better or worse).. Nesmith's shot will allow him to be more than that, but that could be one of Begarin's outcomes until (if) he improves the overall skill set and feel for the game.
good 10-min video, if you want to see his on-court warts

extremely raw, think he could benefit from another overseas season
 

Twalk

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
262
Bozeman, Montana
I irrationally wanted a Boston Boston jersey so bad its always going to be hard for me to not think of Juhann Begarin as the reason the Celtics didn't bring BJ Boston to his rightful home. And this is why i can barely run a fantasy sport's team.
 

Fishy1

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
4,957
Other good signs - he managed to help get his team out of the B league and into the A league - where Fournier was when he was drafted.

Even if it's bad for his salary clock, I also tend to think it's a positive sign if a guy says "get me in the NBA now." You want players who not only are confident but who look forward to challenges.

He'll be fun to watch progress and has a couple of incredible examples in hard work and skill to look up to in Jaylen and Jayson, too.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
4,992
Cultural hub of the universe
This is probably a better look at Begarin than the straight highlight videos of him dunking on people.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBscQFeOVI


You get a better idea of how raw he is. The Diallo comp at the end tracks for me (but I've always liked Diallo). Maybe a bit of a Kevin Porter Jr vibe, too. There's a wide range of outcomes for him, but if he makes it to the roster in the next year or two, it would probably be as a Chaos Energy Wing. Kind of like Nesmith this past season when the shot wasn't quite translating for him. He was throwing his body around, grabbing offensive rebounds, blocking shots, just kind of flying around the court and impacting the game (for better or worse).. Nesmith's shot will allow him to be more than that, but that could be one of Begarin's outcomes until (if) he improves the overall skill set and feel for the game.
Begarin's age 18 3pt % was essentially the same as Nesmith's Freshman year numbers. Similar physical profile, 6'6 215, long arms, Begarin looks more explosive though.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
31,143
Begarin's age 18 3pt % was essentially the same as Nesmith's Freshman year numbers. Similar physical profile, 6'6 215, long arms, Begarin looks more explosive though.
Begarin looks like an absolute freak athlete. His frame is basically SGA, but a tiny bit bigger at every phase and much more muscular. SGA skipped the agility/strength portions, but I'd bet money Begarin is a much better leaper and almost as fast.....

So basically imagine getting a bigger, stronger, higher jumping SGA... that's a monster. The other comp is... Jaylen Brown, who he's a half inch shorter than, but has significantly longer arms, and likely a similar explosive ability.
Begarin may never make it to the NBA, but it won't be the physical tools that stop him, that's for sure, he has an All-Star level player Body, problem is gonna be how quickly if ever he can pick up the skills and mental part of the game.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Begarin looks like an absolute freak athlete. His frame is basically SGA, but a tiny bit bigger at every phase and much more muscular. SGA skipped the agility/strength portions, but I'd bet money Begarin is a much better leaper and almost as fast.....

So basically imagine getting a bigger, stronger, higher jumping SGA... that's a monster. The other comp is... Jaylen Brown, who he's a half inch shorter than, but has significantly longer arms, and likely a similar explosive ability.
Begarin may never make it to the NBA, but it won't be the physical tools that stop him, that's for sure, he has an All-Star level player Body, problem is gonna be how quickly if ever he can pick up the skills and mental part of the game.
These are the guys Ainge always passed over for another 6'0 player. Seems that way anyway. The few athletes he did take were on the older side.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
31,143
These are the guys Ainge always passed over for another 6'0 player. Seems that way anyway. The few athletes he did take were on the older side.
Ainge was a mixed bag on that, but especially in the first he actually took a lot of raw athletes over this time here. 2019 is really the only year he really took small guards, doubling up in the 2nd. And he traded/signed small guys, but overall I'd say his long draft history shows a guy who loves size out of his guards. The small guard thing is only the last 3-4 years, before that he was always a big rangy PG fan.
 

EL Jeffe

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2006
1,221
Begarin's age 18 3pt % was essentially the same as Nesmith's Freshman year numbers. Similar physical profile, 6'6 215, long arms, Begarin looks more explosive though.
True, but Nesmith has a much better stroke and a far faster release. It was obvious Nesmith's shot would get there; Begarin has a decent amount of cleanup to do in his mechanics. But his shot isn't broken, which is promising.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
31,143
True, but Nesmith has a much better stroke and a far faster release. It was obvious Nesmith's shot would get there; Begarin has a decent amount of cleanup to do in his mechanics. But his shot isn't broken, which is promising.
Yeah, I doubt they end up as similar players even if they both work out. Nesmith is a wing shooter who might be able to do some stuff off the dribble (poor man's Middleton maybe?), Begarin is a ballhandler who gets to the hoop hopefully, maybe even playing some point. He's going to the basket and drawing contact first, shooting if he needs to.
 

luqin

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,948
I'll add my voice to the people who think Brad got tired of watching Danny draft undersized, low-ceiling players and decided to go after a lottery ticket. Can't say that I blame him.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,969
I had only ever even seen Begarin covered on NBA Draft Room (and as one of the Other Guy players they didn't expect to see drafted). I had only ever looked at the season highlight tape before last night. But looking at the available video he reminds me a little of Lu Dort in that he's got a really strong frame with arms that go on forever allowing him to guard up a few spots.

The shot isn't broken, but he needs to work on the pre-shot footwork and timing. He even has a hitch on free throws. And the FT% is also a little concerning. Mazzulla has his work cut out for him. Begarin's handle isn't bad, per se, but he's out of control when dribbling, the turnover numbers against better competition won't be pretty. His drives to the net remind me of the Judean People's Front Crack Suicide Squads. He definitely won't get away with that in the NBA. He has little/no touch on layups. Those shots hit the backboard/rim hard. He's not going to get bailout calls in the NBA. He definitely needs to learn that his future is as a 3&D guy and focus his efforts accordingly.

His defense is waaay ahead of his offense at the moment. His combination of athleticism and strength combined with his absolutely insane length make him in a menace in the passing lanes. He has extremely quick hands, which, again, combined with his length gives him an uncanny ability to poke away loose balls from opponents. The defense is the best part, I feel more confident that a good defensive player can become an acceptable offensive one.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
27,689
Begarin's age 18 3pt % was essentially the same as Nesmith's Freshman year numbers. Similar physical profile, 6'6 215, long arms, Begarin looks more explosive though.
Nesmith was being chased around screens by 3 defenders as everyone in the gym knew what Vandy was trying to do. Even his “open” 3’s occurred after running defenders through screens and not of a standstill variety. Perfect example of how stats lie without additional context.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
4,992
Cultural hub of the universe
Nesmith was being chased around screens by 3 defenders as everyone in the gym knew what Vandy was trying to do. Even his “open” 3’s occurred after running defenders through screens and not of a standstill variety. Perfect example of how stats lie without additional context.
Sophmore Nesmith that would be true. Freshman Nesmith was taking less than 2 3's a game.

I'm not trying to claim that they're the same guy, and a couple of the posts above do a good job of pointing out some differences. We'll see how he develops.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,969
Freshman Nesmith was making less than two treys per game. He was shooting them at volume, though (5.5 3FGA/g).
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,443
Ha, a guard over 6' 2" ... I'm already excited. Seriously, this looks like just the sort of guy you want to draft with pick #45. He could turn into something. Maybe. Whereas a lot of those guys picked at #45 have the ceiling of a third-string guard or some such. Just try not to look too closely at some of those passes or that foul-shooting form ... he's raw for sure.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
28,250
I'll add my voice to the people who think Brad got tired of watching Danny draft undersized, low-ceiling players and decided to go after a lottery ticket. Can't say that I blame him.
People have recency bias on DA's drafts. I mean before 2019 he drafted TL, Rozier, Fab Melo, Avery Bradley, JR Giddens, Gerald Green, Tony Allen, and Marcus Banks - all of whom were (as I remember) way more athletic than "polished."
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
31,143
People have recency bias on DA's drafts. I mean before 2019 he drafted TL, Rozier, Fab Melo, Avery Bradley, JR Giddens, Gerald Green, Tony Allen, and Marcus Banks - all of whom were (as I remember) way more athletic than "polished."
Yeah, I mean Danny took a lot of raw big guards along the way, 2019 he took a couple small guards in the 2nd, and Grant was I guess a floor over ceiling pick (but the guy many people here wanted was Clarke who was even more of a floor over ceiling guy)
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,969
I'll add my voice to the people who think Brad got tired of watching Danny draft undersized, low-ceiling players and decided to go after a lottery ticket. Can't say that I blame him.
Let's not go overboard here. It's not like Stevens assembled a scouting staff in the last month and uncovered someone. The staff has obviously been scouting Begarin for a while now. Stevens just liked him of the options on their board left at #45. Nesmith and Langford also aren’t “undersized low-ceiling” players. Now Ainge does have a history of making safe picks in the 20s, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
7,658
San Francisco
Ainge was a mixed bag on that, but especially in the first he actually took a lot of raw athletes over this time here. 2019 is really the only year he really took small guards, doubling up in the 2nd. And he traded/signed small guys, but overall I'd say his long draft history shows a guy who loves size out of his guards. The small guard thing is only the last 3-4 years, before that he was always a big rangy PG fan.
I still have nightmares of Orien Greene starting games for the Celtics.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,551
Saskatoon Canada
This is just from film, by seeing how strong this kid looks, at his age he could be a Crowder type of player, if he focuses on D. His athleticism is more horizontal than vertical, good enough shooter to hit the wide open shot, etc.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
27,689
This is just from film, by seeing how strong this kid looks, at his age he could be a Crowder type of player, if he focuses on D. His athleticism is more horizontal than vertical, good enough shooter to hit the wide open shot, etc.
Good shooting mechanics to build on but what looks like elite potential is his downhill penetration ability with his DeRozan-like ability to change speeds and angles while maintaining body control. These are skills that you simply cannot teach.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
He'll be a board favorite. Hopefully he'll like to offense a little too. I have little doubt he'll eventually be good on the defensive end if he has the motor.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2006
7,459
SS Botany Bay
Ha, a guard over 6' 2" ... I'm already excited. Seriously, this looks like just the sort of guy you want to draft with pick #45. He could turn into something. Maybe. Whereas a lot of those guys picked at #45 have the ceiling of a third-string guard or some such. Just try not to look too closely at some of those passes or that foul-shooting form ... he's raw for sure.
He could still grow taller too.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
27,689
He'll be a board favorite. Hopefully he'll like to offense a little too. I have little doubt he'll eventually be good on the defensive end if he has the motor.
Damn......and I like his offense and how he navigates traffic with the dribble like a baby DeRozen if you squint hard enough.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
44,862
They’ll both probably never amount to much but I love the attitude of this kid and Yam.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Damn......and I like his offense and how he navigates traffic with the dribble like a baby DeRozen if you squint hard enough.
He has all the tools to be a lock down defender. I think offense is a little trickier but he's not lacking the athleticism. He's an exciting pick.

Skill and polish can be added.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
27,689
He has all the tools to be a lock down defender. I think offense is a little trickier but he's not lacking the athleticism. He's an exciting pick.

Skill and polish can be added.
He has good balance.......plus between his attitude toward defense along with his athleticism which should grow over the next decade to realize his potential this is exciting. The more work I do on this kid the more excited I get. He isn’t your typical “mid 2nd round flier”.......this kid was a 1st round lock next year with a chance to climb toward the lottery.

He’s a legit talent and not some cute little Madar who can maybe someday be a backup.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
31,143
He probably takes the roster spot of the loser of the Romeo/Nesmith battle if the resign one of those guys in year or two.
he'll take Carsen's or Jabari's roster spot next year likely. Romeo/Nesmith won't have any impact on Begarin, he's a 2nd round pick and raw that's what bottom of the roster spots are for.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,969
I haven't seen it reported that he was actually offered a 2-way contract. Does anyone know if he was? I do recall that Madar was offered one but turned it down to sign in Europe.
I doubt they bothered offering Madar one because he had an existing Israeli Premier League contract that he couldn’t afford to buyout at two way rates (buyouts cost a million+ and no bank was going to underwrite that for a guy guaranteed $450k). As far as I know the ABA team that he’ll be playing on next year bought out his contract with Tel Aviv after reaching a deal with him,

Similarly I doubt that Boston offered Begarin a two way deal as French Serie A ball is definitely a step above the G League.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
12,604
I doubt they bothered offering Madar one because he had an existing Israeli Premier League contract that he couldn’t afford to buyout at two way rates (buyouts cost a million+ and no bank was going to underwrite that for a guy guaranteed $450k).

Reports were that Madar "turned down" a 2 way contract this year.

Entirely possible it was offered knowing he would not accept, but sounds like they did at least offer it up.


https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/8/18/22631097/yam-madar-signs-with-partizan-belgrade-boston-celtics-summer-league-draft-pick-serbia-europe
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
28,250
I doubt they bothered offering Madar one because he had an existing Israeli Premier League contract that he couldn’t afford to buyout at two way rates (buyouts cost a million+ and no bank was going to underwrite that for a guy guaranteed $450k). As far as I know the ABA team that he’ll be playing on next year bought out his contract with Tel Aviv after reaching a deal with him,
It was reported that Madar's buy-out from Tel Aviv was $250,00: https://sportando.basketball/en/partizan-reportedly-close-to-sign-yam-madar-to-a-2-year-deal/
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I wouldn't have thought this. Interesting.

Anyone have a good ranking list of leagues and where the G League would fall in that list?
I don't know if I agree with it but it's probably better for his development. The G League is heavily focused on guards.

For a developmental league, the G League is pretty meh at development.