Yes, thanks, that sums it up better than I did. Of course, (1) Ainge may not have offered that, and (2) I like Sullinger's game better than most.
Ed Hillel said:
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he's saying that unless Wiggins turns into an all-star caliber player, they took the wrong deal. I think they have to take the Wiggins deal myself, but I can see an argument that Boston's was at least very competitive. Wiggins vs. Smart/Sullinger/3 first round picks with potential to be lottery isn't exactly a slam dunk. If Wiggins doesn't turn into a superstar, Boston's deal was probably better.
You are forgetting Zach LaVine and his mission to destroy every rim he sees.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:I think your take on this is spot on except for one thing. Aside from Wiggins, nothing about the TWolves including Rubio will be fun to watch. They just went from bad to putrid for next season.
The problem with this question is that the C's have Danny Ainge at the helm, and the Wolves have Flip Saunders.Devizier said:Question for you all, would you rather have the Timberowolves' roster and future draft positions or the Celtics'?
It's actually a tough call for me.
Devizier said:Question for you all, would you rather have the Timberowolves' roster and future draft positions or the Celtics'?
It's actually a tough call for me.
Devizier said:Question for you all, would you rather have the Timberowolves' roster and future draft positions or the Celtics'?
It's actually a tough call for me.
No kidding right? What do people think Rondo's value is on the trade market? Nobody wants to give up anything of value as they know they won't offer him what he wants for an extension. Few teams would want a rental at the PG position plus he has the cloud hanging over him of The Big Three making him look a ton better than his game actually is.Blacken said:It's very hard to say that Rondo's a better asset than Rubio once you take into account impending FA.
And Sullinger at the rate he's growing over last season and reports of this summer will be 375.Brickowski said:Pekovic is 28, 6 years older than Sullinger or Olynyk. By the time Wiggins becomes a dominant player (if he ever does) Pekovic will be on his way out.
From what I have been reading the trade isn't involving the sixers as planned.MakMan44 said:Rumors have Sixers in as the 3rd team, getting Bennett with Young headed to the Wolves.
BigSoxFan said:Could anyone envision a scenario where Jared Sullinger is the starting PF for a championship contending team?
Develop how? His skill level is already advanced and he doesn't possess the athelticism to grow any more skill into his physical limitations. I mean he wasn't close to those numbers on a losing team without any other scorers last year. I don't see this type of upside at all.Ed Hillel said:
In a few years, absolutely. If he stays healthy, he could develop into a 20/10 guy.
wutang112878 said:Boston's big roster pieces are Rondo, Smart and Sully
Boston doesnt have its 2015,16 or 17 2nds (whoopiieee). We own all our firsts and (I just love writing this) will get:
- 2015 1st from Clippers
- 2016 1st from Brooklyn
- 2017 swap rights for 1st with Brooklyn
- 2018 1st from Brooklyn
- One of: 2016-18 1st from Cleveland if above 10, or 2019 unprotected 1st
- A bunch of conditional 2nds not worth writing about
Not sure you should ever look at deals like this though. Sure, Boston's mid-first round picks could turn out to be special, but at this moment, Wiggins is clearly a better asset than those unknowwn picksEd Hillel said:If Wiggins doesn't turn into a superstar, Boston's deal was probably better.
On what grounds? They can't prove anything unless there is a Joe Smith-like deal in writing which would be asinine even by the Cavaliers standards.soxhop411 said:
HomeRunBaker said:On what grounds? They can't prove anything unless there is a Joe Smith-like deal in writing which would be asinine even by the Cavaliers standards.
Nothing.To.See.Here
One aspect of the agreement between Cleveland and Minnesota that has not yet been agreed to, according to two league sources, is a contract extension for Love. If Love opts out next summer, he could get a five-year, $120 million deal from the Cavs. But with James, the sole trigger for the deal, working on a two-year deal with a player option next summer, the two people familiar with the discussions said Love may want to wait and see how long of a deal James agrees to next summer so the two stars can synchronize their plans.
So you want the writer of the article suspended or his contract rescinded?axx said:
Did you even read the article? Love has "agreed" to opt out of his deal after this season and sign for 5 more years. That kind of backroom deal is not allowed. Kind of surprised (although maybe I shouldn't be) that they simply can't just extend Love now, although it's possible that the max contract years is what is preventing it.
HomeRunBaker said:Develop how? His skill level is already advanced and he doesn't possess the athelticism to grow any more skill into his physical limitations. I mean he wasn't close to those numbers on a losing team without any other scorers last year. I don't see this type of upside at all.
Three10toLeft said:I still can't believe mongoloid Flip Saunders was somehow able to squeeze Andrew Wiggins out of the Cavs.
The Cavs had no one to bid against, and they still folded.
It probably wouldn't trump GS, or Boston's offer. But it was pretty obvious that GS had no intentions of offering Klay Thompson, so really all you had was the platter of picks that Boston was offering.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
What am I missing here? What package from Cleveland sans Wiggins would have netted Love here? Are you saying that Bennett plus picks would have trumped the potential Boston or Golden State offers?
Three10toLeft said:It probably wouldn't trump GS, or Boston's offer. But it was pretty obvious that GS had no intentions of offering Klay Thompson, so really all you had was the platter of picks that Boston was offering.
At the end of the day, Cleveland knew they had the best hand, and what Minnesota really wanted. If another team stepped up with a better offer, then throw Wiggins in. But if Golden State didn't miraculously flip flop, their probably wouldn't be a better deal than what Cleveland could offer of Bennett, picks, and Tristan Thompson. Cleveland shouldn't have given in.
The likelihood of Flip taking the Boston deal was very low, considering that Flip is delusional enough to believe that scrapping for the eight seed in the WC is the best route for the T-Wolves.
If CLE didn't offer Wiggins, Flip would have sent Love to CHI. While not everyone might agree that CHI's package was the best one out there, I think the fact that Flip could send Love to a direct competitor would be reason enough to pick CHI over a CLE offer without Wiggins.At the end of the day, Cleveland knew they had the best hand, and what Minnesota really wanted. If another team stepped up with a better offer, then throw Wiggins in. But if Golden State didn't miraculously flip flop, their probably wouldn't be a better deal than what Cleveland could offer of Bennett, picks, and Tristan Thompson. Cleveland shouldn't have given in.
Three10toLeft said:Maybe I'm too high on Wiggins and I'm not properly evaluating the offers set forth by the other teams...
It just seems like Cleveland may have jumped the gun by giving up the top overall pick in a loaded draft. I feel like their is a chance they could have had their cake and ate it too. But whatever... They netted Love and appeased Lebron, so that counts for something.
Three10toLeft said:Maybe I'm too high on Wiggins and I'm not properly evaluating the offers set forth by the other teams...
It just seems like Cleveland may have jumped the gun by giving up the top overall pick in a loaded draft. I feel like their is a chance they could have had their cake and ate it too. But whatever... They netted Love and appeased Lebron, so that counts for something.
Why would Minnesota have accepted any deal without Wiggins? The rumored Chicago deal is better than anything Cleveland could offer without Wiggins.Three10toLeft said:Maybe I'm too high on Wiggins and I'm not properly evaluating the offers set forth by the other teams...
It just seems like Cleveland may have jumped the gun by giving up the top overall pick in a loaded draft. I feel like their is a chance they could have had their cake and ate it too. But whatever... They netted Love and appeased Lebron, so that counts for something.
PedroKsBambino said:
Given that Lebron has an opt-out at end of this year, doing what he wants (so long as defensible basketball-wise) is pretty much the only rational choice. If he had said he was indifferent one could make the case for keeping Wiggins, but he is so incredibly valuable on his own once he weighs in, the discussion is over...at least, for the Cavs, it ought to be.
They're not really comparable. In the Smith case he was a non-T'wolf that signed with Minnesota at a below-market rate with the understanding that Minnesota would give him a max deal when they had Bird rights (and it wasn't that unusual, Danny Manning did the exact same thing a few years before). The T'wolves left behind a paper trail, which is why Stern had to address the situation.ALiveH said:this whole illegal agreement thing & the one with joe smith make zero sense to me why anyone should be punished. It just seems like something for the league to abuse with selective enforcement. an illegal agreement is no agreement at all because either side can back out of it at the moment of truth with zero repercussions.
I think the NBA wanted to look the other way in the Smith case, the same way they turned a blind eye every other time it happened (and even more broadly as at the time Denver traded Antonio McDyess to Phoenix there were rumors that McDyess already had an unwritten agreement to re-sign with the Nuggets the ensuing summer). But the T'wolves had a written agreement with Smith, which is why the NBA came down on them. In any event, I was just pointing out that in trade talks teams are allowed to talk to the agents of the players they're trading for. There's no tampering where the Cavs are negotiating with the T'wolves and Minnesota is allowing them to talk to Love. Once the trade's final Cleveland can even reach an explicit agreement with Love on a new deal, they just can't sign it until the following summer.ALiveH said:But in the smith case, either side could have reneged on the agreement after he played out his below-market deal. Since it was an "illegal" agreement, there was no recourse if either side reneged. An agreement that cannot be enforced is no agreement at all. So, why was anyone punished for this?
Similarly Carlos Boozer reneged on his handshake deal with the Cavs owner. There was no recourse for the cavs owner since it wasn't an enforceable deal. So it wasn't really an agreement at all.
The Cavs were bidding against the clock. They needed Love this season to begin establishing their core identity. Flip recognized this and the fact that he had Love under contract for this season had him holding all the cards....and he knew this.Three10toLeft said:I still can't believe mongoloid Flip Saunders was somehow able to squeeze Andrew Wiggins out of the Cavs.
The Cavs had no one to bid against, and they still folded.
Three10toLeft said:I still can't believe mongoloid Flip Saunders was somehow able to squeeze Andrew Wiggins out of the Cavs.
The Cavs had no one to bid against, and they still folded.
Didn't the inclusion of Wiggins precede the George injury?Was (Not Wasdin) said:
I think the Paul George injury really pushed the Cavs to include Wiggins and make the deal. With Indiana out of the way, their only real competition in the East, for probably the next two years, is Chicago. It made sense to take advantage of the opening and go all in right now, vs. trying to find a way to get Love without including Wiggins (or just keeping and developing Wiggins).
moly99 said:
I don't think much of Anthony Bennett, but Thad Young isn't going to move the needle much in Minneapolis anyway. With Bennett there's at least a chance (albeit a slim one) that he develops into a poor man's Kevin Love and gives the Timberwolves someone who can be a part of their core for the future. If the wolves are really going all in this year I hope they trade Wiggins and Bennett to Toronto.