Kobe Killed in Helicopter Crash

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
Sorry, I have no problem calling Kobe a rapist. I hope that was clear in my post.
The rest of your post was, for sure.

Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, maybe they’re unfamiliar with the details of the case - in part because Kobe’s legal strategy was so brutally effective - and think of it more in the context of “she was taken advantage of by an NBA star and ended up regretting it the next day” so they’re willing to look past it or shout down those who aren’t.

To the extent that’s true, and language matters generally, I think it’s important to make the distinction consistently.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,204
The rest of your post was, for sure.

Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, maybe they’re unfamiliar with the details of the case - in part because Kobe’s legal strategy was so brutally effective - and think of it more in the context of “she was taken advantage of by an NBA star and ended up regretting it the next day” so they’re willing to look past it or shout down those who aren’t.

To the extent that’s true, and language matters generally, I think it’s important to make the distinction consistently.
To be honest, I used those terms because I wanted to encompass not only the rape, but the following actions of leaking her name out, getting the Kobe-stans to send death threats, getting her to settle for cash instead of justice, etc. I wasn't using "taken advantage of" as a safe euphemism for rape, but rather the entire sequence of events between Kobe and the girl.
 

Montana Fan

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Oct 18, 2000
9,156
Twin Bridges, Mt.
What was the board he was bumped off of about 6 months ago because of the rape? I can’t find it but know that at least one group hadn’t overlooked his past.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
What was the board he was bumped off of about 6 months ago because of the rape? I can’t find it but know that at least one group hadn’t overlooked his past.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/kobe-bryant-kicked-off-panel-animated-film-festival-2003-rape-public-protest-nba/1iyc3la2vnxza1h7y5koys8yae
Judge for an animated film festival.

Of course, after being awarded and applauded at the Oscars for his animated film. Not sure if he got more applause than Polanski though.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
Thanks 49-0. Have to believe that there will be a lot of upset people if he receives a glowing tribute at the Oscars.
I’m sure there will be, but who knows how empowered they’ll feel to speak out.

The ESB was lit purple the other night to honor Kobe. So were buildings in at least LA and Philly.

That seems like a much greater and more invasive tribute than anything the Oscars could do.

Nevermind that the Grammys were already basically an impromptu tribute to Kobe.
 

djbayko

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SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
26,220
Los Angeles, CA
So he’s going to get two league wide retired numbers?

There are some pretty incredible pictures of the crash immediate afteremath at TMZ. No bodies visible, but don’t venture over there if you’re easily upset.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
So he’s going to get two league wide retired numbers?
Everyone in the NBA needs to take a step back and just cool down for a moment. Putting aside whether one thinks it appropriate to discuss the rape allegations in the immediate aftermath of his death, that absolutely HAS TO be a key component of deciding just how much to honor Kobe as things progress.

Even if he wasn't a credibly accused rapist, retiring his number(s) across the league like he is some sort of Jackie Robinson-figure just because he died tragically would be really weird - Roberto Clemente didn't and shouldn't have received that treatment despite his tragic death - but when you add in the rape allegations I can't possibly see how that makes any kind of sense (or any other of the ridiculous things people are discussing like making him the new NBA logo).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,832
AZ
I don’t really understand the “body cooling” thing before it’s appropriate to talk about someone’s bad deeds along with their athletic achievements. Maybe Rev could come along and tie it to Antigone or something.
I was talking about this with a really good friend who has a bit of a blind spot on these issues. He was reasonable, but then suggested a 24 hour period is appropriate. I asked if a 24 hour period would be appropriate for a pedophile. He, of course, said no.

And that's the answer, right? I don't exactly like to go Socratic method with friends, but once you say no, isn't the 24 hour bullshit clearly just expressing a value judgment about rape? As in, well it's not that bad? It's in the give-24-hours-pile, like, I don't know, what? Stealing a car? Grounding your club in a hazard on purpose?

Hitler didn't get 24 hours. Anyone espousing a 24 hour rule or a cooling off period is expressing a view about rape. Full stop.

Which, ok, everyone gets an opinion. But it is important for people who are doing it to understand that they are doing it. Because many of them genuinely don't realize they are doing and if they are people of good faith they actually may be surprised when you point it out to them.
 

jcd0805

Member
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Nov 3, 2007
4,051
Florida
Thanks 49-0. Have to believe that there will be a lot of upset people if he receives a glowing tribute at the Oscars.
Oh baloney, they just flippin' gave him an Oscar a couple years ago and I recall nothing but cheers when he went onstage to receive it. James Franco couldn't even attend the ceremony that year because of allegations but Kobe? Nothing but cheers. He REALLY remade his image in a way I can't recall anyone before or since doing.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
6,525
I heard some of the Jimmy Fallon tribute as well. Jimmy Kimmel was also broken up. Even Ellen was crying on her show. I know people here have posted articles detailing the 2003 accusation. I remember when I was at a Sexual Assault Trial Advocacy Course about 10 years ago. One of the instructors read the details from the case and laid out all the evidence collected. The blood on the shirt, the result of the SANE, the physical injuries, etc. She then continued to read the account of what happened to the victim. The release of her name, the death threats, and ultimately her decision to no longer participate in the prosecution of the case after being bullied and intimidated for over a year. It was a very detailed accounting of the case over about 20-30 minutes. Only after going through all of that, she told use the name of the accused. I was astonished because I just didn't remember much from the case in 2003. I'm sure I barely paid attention to it other than what was in the headlines and probably assumed it was some money grab thing or something and of course the charges were dropped. I was one of the people who said "Meh," nothing to see here.

Since then, I've probably reviewed a couple hundred sexual assault complaints. I've participated in dozens of sexual assault trials, both as a prosecutor and a defense attorney. Rarely, have I had a case with as much physical evidence as the Bryant case. In fact, most of my cases have no physical evidence. Many of them are delayed reports given after DNA has been washed away and physical injuries have healed. But we'll prosecute on a credible complaint alone if that's all we have. People should at least read some of the details of the case before deciding they want to deify the man.
This is the stuff that needs to be repeated.

I hesitate to post! But I've been assaulted myself. Just to give some perspective, even though mine wasn't violent per se, and even though I'm generally an accepting, happy adult who's not easily retraumatized, I found myself headed straight for contempt and rage when I heard the news. I went around for two days reminding everyone I saw that he was a rapist, cataloguing the responses of friends and strangers to see who I could trust, an impulse I had to suppress.

I'll be honest, I don't run to post here about this stuff anymore for the same reason Rev left: I was enraged by the response of the media and figured I'd see as bad or worse here. Scrolling through, I see plenty of pathetic posts, but there's just as much quietly insidious stuff: one of the many wonderful little ironies was Kliq's post about ESPN only wanting to be a business: it rings true to me, except I don't find that a compelling excuse at all. "They've got to meet their bottom line" is a circular justification for prioritizing money above all else: never mind that we're talking about rape and how we report on rape. What's even more profoundly disappointing is to watch the culture swing back: Me Too seems to have reached its cultural apex, and now we're seeing a rather predictable and devastating backlash, mostly in the form of indifference and ignorance, my favorite hobbyhorses. Of course, then I felt depressed at feeling so angry. Then I had to accept that this is probably as good as "the culture," if you will, is going to do. People will call his legacy "complicated" (a totally vacant adjective).

I think everyone operates with cognitive blinders on, and what exactly those blinders obscure is contingent upon what people are afraid to admit about the world, themselves, the nature of life and death -- whatever. And since there's an astounding amount of evil in the world, and to try to incorporate the fact that it might be perpetrated by people we admire, love, respect, etc. would mean grappling with that evil, people resort to denial and at worst, projection and even violence.

It's too much. You see people posting, how could he be that bad if he was adored? As if there weren't already countless instances of men raping women and going on to be adored. There's guy in the NBA right now, picking up checks, who are rapists: have you guys read about the Derrick Rose case? Because the similiarities to Kobe's case are pretty fucking striking!

There's a line from a Thomas McGuane novel: life looked straight in the eye is insupportable.

Anyway, I teared up writing this post: for everything above, it is incredibly heartening to see so many people fighting the good fight on a message board comprised mostly of white dudes in their fifties. Makes the world a little less lonely, and I think we could all use less loneliness.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,908
Pittsburgh, PA
Hey now, just because we write like we're in our 50s, complain like we're in our 50s, and have waistlines as if we were in our 50s, does NOT mean...

...okay, fine, I guess I see your point.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
I was talking about this with a really good friend who has a bit of a blind spot on these issues. He was reasonable, but then suggested a 24 hour period is appropriate. I asked if a 24 hour period would be appropriate for a pedophile. He, of course, said no.

And that's the answer, right? I don't exactly like to go Socratic method with friends, but once you say no, isn't the 24 hour bullshit clearly just expressing a value judgment about rape? As in, well it's not that bad? It's in the give-24-hours-pile, like, I don't know, what? Stealing a car? Grounding your club in a hazard on purpose?

Hitler didn't get 24 hours. Anyone espousing a 24 hour rule or a cooling off period is expressing a view about rape. Full stop.

Which, ok, everyone gets an opinion. But it is important for people who are doing it to understand that they are doing it. Because many of them genuinely don't realize they are doing and if they are people of good faith they actually may be surprised when you point it out to them.
I agree with all of this, and it's why I don't love the idea of everyone feeling like they have an equal seat at the table. Yes, conversations with people acting in good faith can be respectful, but after a certain point I don't think it's necessary or helpful to dance around the fact that people want to hold up an unrepentant rapist as a hero.

I think it's important to consider why people have such a hard time getting their minds around retrograde notions of rape, and it's good ESPN and the Washington Post and the Grammys and hopefully the Oscars are being forced to reflect.

For whatever reason, I've been thinking about Game of Thrones today. Probably the biggest TV series of the last decade, right? Look at how that show handled rape. Dany is raped by Drogo, but it's cool because then they fall in love, especially after she learns to get good at sex and can please him. Jaime rapes Cersei by their kid's casket, but it's cool because they love each other in the end, and he's nice to Brienne. Sansa is sadistically raped by a sociopath, but she's happy about it because it made her stronger and all.

People did call this things out as they happened, but the show continued to be a juggernaut and critical darling even as it continued to handle this issue horridly.

I don't understand why there's such a blindspot. Maybe it's an unwillingness to comprehend evil. Maybe it's people uncomfortable with their own past conduct, or that of their friends.

I was also thinking earlier about how I know a pretty large amount of people who have been raped or assaulted. I can only think of one kid - from high school - who I know was accused of either. Not saying that I don't know or am not friends with other people who have been accused, and I'm sure many of them have perpetrated rapes or sexual assaults that never came to light, but it's a weird disparity, right? So many people who have been violated and have to carry pain or trauma forward, and so many others who hurt people and just carry on with their lives with no repercussions or acknowledgment.
 

kfoss99

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2009
1,530
No one asked and not one will likely care, but here I go. This isn't my best writing and it's disjointed:

Kobe's death reminds me why God said don't worship false idols. We're all human, even the most famous of us. No matter how revered Kobe is, he did something truly terrible. From reading this thread, worse than I realized.

But, as humans we love myths and heroes. It seems preposterous that I read about retiring his numbers league wide or a petition to change the NBA logo. Once we "worship" Kobe, no discourse of his rape/alleged rape will be allowed. He's become a false idol or mythological.

Kobe was a basketball hero. I don't think their is a question about that. But, he was as fallible as anyone, with his assault more than many.

It's tragic that he died the way he did. At 41, he's only a few years older than I am. So, that hit home. By all accounts he was a good dad and redeemed himself with his wife.

So then, did he find redemption for his crime? Did he feel remorse? Those are unanswerable. I have to live my life thinking most people are good and even after doing a horrible thing, they can redeem themselves. But, his victim lives forever with what he did to her. I'm not smart enough to know how victims find peace and forgiveness.

Also, as I get older I find it is more important to care about people than things. Sexual assault victims are more important than basketball and basketball fandom. But we love things, I love things. People are too damn complex.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. Thanks for letting people work out their emotions on this thread.
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
16,055
Reminds me of Ted Kennedy. Kennedy was a great senator largely on causes I believe in, a terrific guy including to people in my family, wildly popular in life and eulogized dramatically in death, but...
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
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Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
I agree with all of this, and it's why I don't love the idea of everyone feeling like they have an equal seat at the table. Yes, conversations with people acting in good faith can be respectful, but after a certain point I don't think it's necessary or helpful to dance around the fact that people want to hold up an unrepentant rapist as a hero.

I think it's important to consider why people have such a hard time getting their minds around retrograde notions of rape, and it's good ESPN and the Washington Post and the Grammys and hopefully the Oscars are being forced to reflect.

For whatever reason, I've been thinking about Game of Thrones today. Probably the biggest TV series of the last decade, right? Look at how that show handled rape. Dany is raped by Drogo, but it's cool because then they fall in love, especially after she learns to get good at sex and can please him. Jaime rapes Cersei by their kid's casket, but it's cool because they love each other in the end, and he's nice to Brienne. Sansa is sadistically raped by a sociopath, but she's happy about it because it made her stronger and all.

People did call this things out as they happened, but the show continued to be a juggernaut and critical darling even as it continued to handle this issue horridly.

I don't understand why there's such a blindspot. Maybe it's an unwillingness to comprehend evil. Maybe it's people uncomfortable with their own past conduct, or that of their friends.

I was also thinking earlier about how I know a pretty large amount of people who have been raped or assaulted. I can only think of one kid - from high school - who I know was accused of either. Not saying that I don't know or am not friends with other people who have been accused, and I'm sure many of them have perpetrated rapes or sexual assaults that never came to light, but it's a weird disparity, right? So many people who have been violated and have to carry pain or trauma forward, and so many others who hurt people and just carry on with their lives with no repercussions or acknowledgment.
I agree with your point but I'm not sure whether the issues you identify are unique to rape as opposed to the more general human tendency to look past the sins of those we root for or revere. To stay in the realm of TV, many of the most "beloved" TV characters of all time are depicted murdering (directly or indirectly) scores of people - even by the end of Breaking Bad many viewers were still "rooting" for Walter White. And to move to the realm of real life, Ray Lewis was involved in a killing, tried to cover it up, and then ultimately flipped on his friends when he was caught, and yet he is revered by many today. Dozens of sports stars have physically abused women and/or children (sometimes serially so) and fans and announcers routinely ignore or minimize those actions. (Snowmanny's Ted Kennedy example is another one outside of sports - the guy was indisputably responsible for the death of another, and even in the most generous interpretation of events failed to report her death to police and tried to cover up his involvement entirely, but was widely lauded from both sides of the aisle when he passed away.)

So to the extent there is a blindspot I don't think it's limited to or particularly unique to rape, but rather to any bad conduct on the part of their heroes that can in any way be justified or explained away.
 

DebSox

New Member
Jul 14, 2005
69
‘‘Anyway, I teared up writing this post: for everything above, it is incredibly heartening to see so many people fighting the good fight on a message board comprised mostly of white dudes in their fifties. Makes the world a little less lonely, and I think we could all use less loneliness.’’

My brother and sister posters: I am so PROUD of this forum for the courage and respect to discuss this topic without clawing at each other’s throats. {although the early going was a little hairy}. This is a polarizing subject and really gut wrenching. I am not a survivor but am a compassionate empath. I feel for those who have to revisit trauma in their lives because of this event. May we all find sympathy in our hearts for all involved.

PS. White female, past 50
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
I agree with your point but I'm not sure whether the issues you identify are unique to rape as opposed to the more general human tendency to look past the sins of those we root for or revere. To stay in the realm of TV, many of the most "beloved" TV characters of all time are depicted murdering (directly or indirectly) scores of people - even by the end of Breaking Bad many viewers were still "rooting" for Walter White. And to move to the realm of real life, Ray Lewis was involved in a killing, tried to cover it up, and then ultimately flipped on his friends when he was caught, and yet he is revered by many today. Dozens of sports stars have physically abused women and/or children (sometimes serially so) and fans and announcers routinely ignore or minimize those actions. (Snowmanny's Ted Kennedy example is another one outside of sports - the guy was indisputably responsible for the death of another, and even in the most generous interpretation of events failed to report her death to police and tried to cover up his involvement entirely, but was widely lauded from both sides of the aisle when he passed away.)

So to the extent there is a blindspot I don't think it's limited to or particularly unique to rape, but rather to any bad conduct on the part of their heroes that can in any way be justified or explained away.
That's fair. With regard to TV shows, I'm sure there are exceptions, but most of the anti-heroes end up dead, right? To the extent people are rooting for Walter White or Tony Soprano or Montana or Omar or Stringer, the ultimate story arc is bad deeds are punished.

I completely agree that sports stars get away with domestic violence - both in terms of criminal sanctions and reputational harm - in a shameful way. Maybe this isn't right, but I see that as an issue related to society's lack of concern with rape and sexual abuse.

Some of the other things you mention also tie in to class-based injustices in our criminal system. A poor Ray Lewis probably goes to jail. A poor non-Kennedy Ted probably goes to jail. But, you don't really have to be a rich dude to get away with rape. Sure, there are Brock Turners and William Kennedy Smith's, but the system isn't stacked against people trying to get justice for murder or robbery the way it is for rape survivors.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,187
This is the stuff that needs to be repeated.

I hesitate to post! But I've been assaulted myself. Just to give some perspective, even though mine wasn't violent per se, and even though I'm generally an accepting, happy adult who's not easily retraumatized, I found myself headed straight for contempt and rage when I heard the news. I went around for two days reminding everyone I saw that he was a rapist, cataloguing the responses of friends and strangers to see who I could trust, an impulse I had to suppress.

I'll be honest, I don't run to post here about this stuff anymore for the same reason Rev left: I was enraged by the response of the media and figured I'd see as bad or worse here. Scrolling through, I see plenty of pathetic posts, but there's just as much quietly insidious stuff: one of the many wonderful little ironies was Kliq's post about ESPN only wanting to be a business: it rings true to me, except I don't find that a compelling excuse at all. "They've got to meet their bottom line" is a circular justification for prioritizing money above all else: never mind that we're talking about rape and how we report on rape. What's even more profoundly disappointing is to watch the culture swing back: Me Too seems to have reached its cultural apex, and now we're seeing a rather predictable and devastating backlash, mostly in the form of indifference and ignorance, my favorite hobbyhorses. Of course, then I felt depressed at feeling so angry. Then I had to accept that this is probably as good as "the culture," if you will, is going to do. People will call his legacy "complicated" (a totally vacant adjective).

I think everyone operates with cognitive blinders on, and what exactly those blinders obscure is contingent upon what people are afraid to admit about the world, themselves, the nature of life and death -- whatever. And since there's an astounding amount of evil in the world, and to try to incorporate the fact that it might be perpetrated by people we admire, love, respect, etc. would mean grappling with that evil, people resort to denial and at worst, projection and even violence.

It's too much. You see people posting, how could he be that bad if he was adored? As if there weren't already countless instances of men raping women and going on to be adored. There's guy in the NBA right now, picking up checks, who are rapists: have you guys read about the Derrick Rose case? Because the similiarities to Kobe's case are pretty fucking striking!

There's a line from a Thomas McGuane novel: life looked straight in the eye is insupportable.

Anyway, I teared up writing this post: for everything above, it is incredibly heartening to see so many people fighting the good fight on a message board comprised mostly of white dudes in their fifties. Makes the world a little less lonely, and I think we could all use less loneliness.
Thanks for sharing your story, I’m sure that’s not easy. Hopefully it helps just to see an anonymous white dude in his 40’s say it.

As for Kobe, I struggle with it because I’m a father of a 15 year old daughter who plays basketball so it hits close to home, moreso because of Gigi. I think his past is fair game and I think the reactions of retire his numbers league wide and make him the logo is just way over the top.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
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Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
I completely agree that sports stars get away with domestic violence - both in terms of criminal sanctions and reputational harm - in a shameful way. Maybe this isn't right, but I see that as an issue related to society's lack of concern with rape and sexual abuse.
No, you probably are right that the issues are related because fundamentally they both stem from the traditional male power dynamic over women and/or children - historically, men simply haven't been called to task for their actions towards women and children (or at least to the same extent they would be otherwise). The Ted Kennedy example fits here too - that was neither rape nor physical abuse but certainly involved a man being deferred to when a question of his actions vis-a-vis a woman emerged (heck even OJ fits in here although that also involves major issues of class as you note). Throughout most of human history these types of things seem to have been crimes that just "weren't talked about" or that were viewed as unfortunate occurrences rather than punishable crimes, and obviously we as a society haven't fully moved past that yet, especially when the accused is someone of high social standing that we are conditioned to respect or trust more than the average Joe.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,308
In LA the portrayal has been he was a role model, someone you'd want to raise your son to be like and a champion for women's sports.
 

santadevil

wears depends
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Aug 1, 2006
6,578
Saskatchestan
Washington Post reporter reinstated
Thanks for the update

I've been thinking about this too. Even if she was suspended for posting about the thousands of emails she received (and showing them, I hadn't seen the actual tweet). What the heck is she supposed to do? Is posting that online not a great deterrent to those people wanting to email her death threats?

It's not like the police are going to track these people down and charge them to the fullest extent of the law (I wouldn't imagine, especially when I'm guessing a lot aren't even based in the US), so how else does she protect herself? All it takes is one person willing to act on their message. Just because she is a reporter doesn't mean she should have to live getting death threats sent to her
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
NTSB update, it is a facebook link from a local news agency.

-Preliminary report out in 10 days.

-The briefer essentially opened with noting that the FAA has not mandated EGPWS / TAWS terrain avoidance systems in passengers helicopters like the S-76 that crashed on Sunday, as the NTSB has requested after multiple mishaps. The NTSB briefer noted that the impact was "20-30 feet" short of the top of the feature where the impact area is located.

- High energy impact with aircraft in one piece when it impacted the ground.

-They recovered the iPad the pilot was using as an electronic flight bag for maps / publications / etc.

-sounds like the aircraft did not have a cockpit voice recorder or flight data recorder. They do have ADSB data to work with.

-time from decent being initiated to impact was about 60 seconds. That fact makes me feel really awful especially for the children who were on board.





View: https://www.facebook.com/ktvu/videos/274676376850145/
 
Last edited:

Soxy

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2008
6,095
This is the stuff that needs to be repeated.

I hesitate to post! But I've been assaulted myself. Just to give some perspective, even though mine wasn't violent per se, and even though I'm generally an accepting, happy adult who's not easily retraumatized, I found myself headed straight for contempt and rage when I heard the news. I went around for two days reminding everyone I saw that he was a rapist, cataloguing the responses of friends and strangers to see who I could trust, an impulse I had to suppress.

I'll be honest, I don't run to post here about this stuff anymore for the same reason Rev left: I was enraged by the response of the media and figured I'd see as bad or worse here. Scrolling through, I see plenty of pathetic posts, but there's just as much quietly insidious stuff: one of the many wonderful little ironies was Kliq's post about ESPN only wanting to be a business: it rings true to me, except I don't find that a compelling excuse at all. "They've got to meet their bottom line" is a circular justification for prioritizing money above all else: never mind that we're talking about rape and how we report on rape. What's even more profoundly disappointing is to watch the culture swing back: Me Too seems to have reached its cultural apex, and now we're seeing a rather predictable and devastating backlash, mostly in the form of indifference and ignorance, my favorite hobbyhorses. Of course, then I felt depressed at feeling so angry. Then I had to accept that this is probably as good as "the culture," if you will, is going to do. People will call his legacy "complicated" (a totally vacant adjective).

I think everyone operates with cognitive blinders on, and what exactly those blinders obscure is contingent upon what people are afraid to admit about the world, themselves, the nature of life and death -- whatever. And since there's an astounding amount of evil in the world, and to try to incorporate the fact that it might be perpetrated by people we admire, love, respect, etc. would mean grappling with that evil, people resort to denial and at worst, projection and even violence.

It's too much. You see people posting, how could he be that bad if he was adored? As if there weren't already countless instances of men raping women and going on to be adored. There's guy in the NBA right now, picking up checks, who are rapists: have you guys read about the Derrick Rose case? Because the similiarities to Kobe's case are pretty fucking striking!

There's a line from a Thomas McGuane novel: life looked straight in the eye is insupportable.

Anyway, I teared up writing this post: for everything above, it is incredibly heartening to see so many people fighting the good fight on a message board comprised mostly of white dudes in their fifties. Makes the world a little less lonely, and I think we could all use less loneliness.
This is a fantastic post and thank you, sincerely, for bringing up the Derrick Rose case.

Details here, if anyone would like to know the level of human that is Derrick Rose.

https://thinkprogress.org/derrick-rose-rape-case-2182c16b55e2/
 

jcd0805

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 3, 2007
4,051
Florida
In LA the portrayal has been he was a role model, someone you'd want to raise your son to be like and a champion for women's sports.
It’s not just LA. I live in Florida, my 50-something friend who is a woman (like me) said “This is so sad...I think he was one of the good ones...” I said “well there was that rape charge...” she was like “that was HIM??” It made me realize that other than THAT he I guess was the epitome of a great father and family man. Life is hard to understand sometimes.
 

Jimbodandy

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SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,096
around the way
I agree with all of this, and it's why I don't love the idea of everyone feeling like they have an equal seat at the table. Yes, conversations with people acting in good faith can be respectful, but after a certain point I don't think it's necessary or helpful to dance around the fact that people want to hold up an unrepentant rapist as a hero.

I think it's important to consider why people have such a hard time getting their minds around retrograde notions of rape, and it's good ESPN and the Washington Post and the Grammys and hopefully the Oscars are being forced to reflect.

For whatever reason, I've been thinking about Game of Thrones today. Probably the biggest TV series of the last decade, right? Look at how that show handled rape. Dany is raped by Drogo, but it's cool because then they fall in love, especially after she learns to get good at sex and can please him. Jaime rapes Cersei by their kid's casket, but it's cool because they love each other in the end, and he's nice to Brienne. Sansa is sadistically raped by a sociopath, but she's happy about it because it made her stronger and all.

People did call this things out as they happened, but the show continued to be a juggernaut and critical darling even as it continued to handle this issue horridly.

I don't understand why there's such a blindspot. Maybe it's an unwillingness to comprehend evil. Maybe it's people uncomfortable with their own past conduct, or that of their friends.

I was also thinking earlier about how I know a pretty large amount of people who have been raped or assaulted. I can only think of one kid - from high school - who I know was accused of either. Not saying that I don't know or am not friends with other people who have been accused, and I'm sure many of them have perpetrated rapes or sexual assaults that never came to light, but it's a weird disparity, right? So many people who have been violated and have to carry pain or trauma forward, and so many others who hurt people and just carry on with their lives with no repercussions or acknowledgment.
This is such a great post with so many good points. Thanks for all of your work in this thread.
 

luckysox

Indiana Jones
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2009
8,089
S.E. Pennsylvania
This is the stuff that needs to be repeated.

I hesitate to post! But I've been assaulted myself. Just to give some perspective, even though mine wasn't violent per se, and even though I'm generally an accepting, happy adult who's not easily retraumatized, I found myself headed straight for contempt and rage when I heard the news. I went around for two days reminding everyone I saw that he was a rapist, cataloguing the responses of friends and strangers to see who I could trust, an impulse I had to suppress.

I'll be honest, I don't run to post here about this stuff anymore for the same reason Rev left: I was enraged by the response of the media and figured I'd see as bad or worse here. Scrolling through, I see plenty of pathetic posts, but there's just as much quietly insidious stuff: one of the many wonderful little ironies was Kliq's post about ESPN only wanting to be a business: it rings true to me, except I don't find that a compelling excuse at all. "They've got to meet their bottom line" is a circular justification for prioritizing money above all else: never mind that we're talking about rape and how we report on rape. What's even more profoundly disappointing is to watch the culture swing back: Me Too seems to have reached its cultural apex, and now we're seeing a rather predictable and devastating backlash, mostly in the form of indifference and ignorance, my favorite hobbyhorses. Of course, then I felt depressed at feeling so angry. Then I had to accept that this is probably as good as "the culture," if you will, is going to do. People will call his legacy "complicated" (a totally vacant adjective).

I think everyone operates with cognitive blinders on, and what exactly those blinders obscure is contingent upon what people are afraid to admit about the world, themselves, the nature of life and death -- whatever. And since there's an astounding amount of evil in the world, and to try to incorporate the fact that it might be perpetrated by people we admire, love, respect, etc. would mean grappling with that evil, people resort to denial and at worst, projection and even violence.

It's too much. You see people posting, how could he be that bad if he was adored? As if there weren't already countless instances of men raping women and going on to be adored. There's guy in the NBA right now, picking up checks, who are rapists: have you guys read about the Derrick Rose case? Because the similiarities to Kobe's case are pretty fucking striking!

There's a line from a Thomas McGuane novel: life looked straight in the eye is insupportable.

Anyway, I teared up writing this post: for everything above, it is incredibly heartening to see so many people fighting the good fight on a message board comprised mostly of white dudes in their fifties. Makes the world a little less lonely, and I think we could all use less loneliness.
This is a terrible and beautiful and awful and necessary post. And, Fishy, I see you, I hear you, I am you, and I thank you for sharing here. Love to you.
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,661
jp
Oh baloney, they just flippin' gave him an Oscar a couple years ago and I recall nothing but cheers when he went onstage to receive it. James Franco couldn't even attend the ceremony that year because of allegations but Kobe? Nothing but cheers. He REALLY remade his image in a way I can't recall anyone before or since doing.
You might want to throw ESPN and Nike into that group as well. I can't recall a comparable example of two entities with that type of influence and power doing so much to rehabilitate someone's image. It speaks to us, the consumer, a lot as well in that we were amenable to the con job. But, man, was Kobe their guy. Gross shit.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
SoSH Member
[
NTSB update, it is a facebook link from a local news agency.

-Preliminary report out in 10 days.

-The briefer essentially opened with noting that the FAA has not mandated EGPWS / TAWS terrain avoidance systems in passengers helicopters like the S-76 that crashed on Sunday, as the NTSB has requested after multiple mishaps. The NTSB briefer noted that the impact was "20-30 feet" short of the top of the feature where the impact area is located.

- High energy impact with aircraft in one piece when it impacted the ground.

-They recovered the iPad the pilot was using as an electronic flight bag for maps / publications / etc.

-sounds like the aircraft did not have a cockpit voice recorder or flight data recorder. They do have ADSB data to work with.

-time from decent being initiated to impact was about 60 seconds. That fact makes me feel really awful especially for the children who were on board.





View: https://www.facebook.com/ktvu/videos/274676376850145/
If I heard correctly, they were flying at 2200 ft and impacted the hill at 1085 ft in a descending turn. So the $64 question is what caused the sudden descent?

I’m always impressed with the NTSB investigations. They are always thorough, meticulous and done in a professional manner.
 

santadevil

wears depends
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
6,578
Saskatchestan
NTSB update, it is a facebook link from a local news agency.

-Preliminary report out in 10 days.

-The briefer essentially opened with noting that the FAA has not mandated EGPWS / TAWS terrain avoidance systems in passengers helicopters like the S-76 that crashed on Sunday, as the NTSB has requested after multiple mishaps. The NTSB briefer noted that the impact was "20-30 feet" short of the top of the feature where the impact area is located.

- High energy impact with aircraft in one piece when it impacted the ground.

-They recovered the iPad the pilot was using as an electronic flight bag for maps / publications / etc.

-sounds like the aircraft did not have a cockpit voice recorder or flight data recorder. They do have ADSB data to work with.

-time from decent being initiated to impact was about 60 seconds. That fact makes me feel really awful especially for the children who were on board.


View: https://www.facebook.com/ktvu/videos/274676376850145/
The 20-30 feet short, meaning they needed to get that much higher/further up the hill before it crested and they would have cleared it?
Looking at the TMZ photos (I was too curious to not look), it seemed like they needed more height than that, but it's on an angle, so maybe I'm not seeing it quite right, or understanding how this works
 

Preacher

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 9, 2006
6,650
Pyeongtaek, South Korea
This is the stuff that needs to be repeated.

I hesitate to post! But I've been assaulted myself. Just to give some perspective, even though mine wasn't violent per se, and even though I'm generally an accepting, happy adult who's not easily retraumatized, I found myself headed straight for contempt and rage when I heard the news. I went around for two days reminding everyone I saw that he was a rapist, cataloguing the responses of friends and strangers to see who I could trust, an impulse I had to suppress.

I'll be honest, I don't run to post here about this stuff anymore for the same reason Rev left: I was enraged by the response of the media and figured I'd see as bad or worse here. Scrolling through, I see plenty of pathetic posts, but there's just as much quietly insidious stuff: one of the many wonderful little ironies was Kliq's post about ESPN only wanting to be a business: it rings true to me, except I don't find that a compelling excuse at all. "They've got to meet their bottom line" is a circular justification for prioritizing money above all else: never mind that we're talking about rape and how we report on rape. What's even more profoundly disappointing is to watch the culture swing back: Me Too seems to have reached its cultural apex, and now we're seeing a rather predictable and devastating backlash, mostly in the form of indifference and ignorance, my favorite hobbyhorses. Of course, then I felt depressed at feeling so angry. Then I had to accept that this is probably as good as "the culture," if you will, is going to do. People will call his legacy "complicated" (a totally vacant adjective).

I think everyone operates with cognitive blinders on, and what exactly those blinders obscure is contingent upon what people are afraid to admit about the world, themselves, the nature of life and death -- whatever. And since there's an astounding amount of evil in the world, and to try to incorporate the fact that it might be perpetrated by people we admire, love, respect, etc. would mean grappling with that evil, people resort to denial and at worst, projection and even violence.

It's too much. You see people posting, how could he be that bad if he was adored? As if there weren't already countless instances of men raping women and going on to be adored. There's guy in the NBA right now, picking up checks, who are rapists: have you guys read about the Derrick Rose case? Because the similiarities to Kobe's case are pretty fucking striking!

There's a line from a Thomas McGuane novel: life looked straight in the eye is insupportable.

Anyway, I teared up writing this post: for everything above, it is incredibly heartening to see so many people fighting the good fight on a message board comprised mostly of white dudes in their fifties. Makes the world a little less lonely, and I think we could all use less loneliness.
Thanks for sharing this. I know it took a lot to type those words. It means a lot for me to be able to read them. White dude in his 30s here. I’ve been selected for a Special Victim Prosector assignment starting this summer so I’ll continue fighting the good fight.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,832
AZ
Friends, SoSHers, basketball fans, lend me your ears;
I come to praise Caesar Kobe, not to bury him.
The evil good that men do lives after them;
The good evil is oft interred with their bones, if they're famous enough;
So let it be with Kobe. The noble Victim
Hath told you Kobe had ambitions on her body:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Kobe answer’d it.
Here, under leave of her and the rest–
For she is an honourable woman;
So are they all, all honourable women–
Come I to speak in Kobe's remembrance.
He was my sporting enemy, a great taker of the Inefficient Mid-ranger:
But the victim says he was rapey;
And she is an honourable woman.
Kobe hath brought many trophies home to Rome The LA Forum
Whose merchandise did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Kobe seem grabby?
When that the poor Laker fans have cried, Kobe hath wept:
Grabbiness should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet the victim says he held her down and choked her;
And she is an honourable woman.
You all did see that on the national broadcast
Phil Jackson thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this control-freakiness?
Yet the victim says he slandered her and incited online mobs to hound her;
And, sure, she is an honourable woman.
I speak not to disprove what she spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love to hate him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish instincts,
And men lose their reason when their sporting heroes are involved. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Kobe,
And I must pause till it come back to me.


---

Online parody's but a walking shadow, a pale imitation
Who struts and frets its time upon the forum thread
and then is heard no more. It is a tale
told by a procrastinator, full of shortcuts and half truths,
Signifying nothing.
This took a lot of effort and should not go unresponded to!
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,761
MetroWest, MA
No one asked and not one will likely care, but here I go. This isn't my best writing and it's disjointed:

Kobe's death reminds me why God said don't worship false idols. We're all human, even the most famous of us. No matter how revered Kobe is, he did something truly terrible. From reading this thread, worse than I realized.

But, as humans we love myths and heroes. It seems preposterous that I read about retiring his numbers league wide or a petition to change the NBA logo. Once we "worship" Kobe, no discourse of his rape/alleged rape will be allowed. He's become a false idol or mythological.

Kobe was a basketball hero. I don't think their is a question about that. But, he was as fallible as anyone, with his assault more than many.

It's tragic that he died the way he did. At 41, he's only a few years older than I am. So, that hit home. By all accounts he was a good dad and redeemed himself with his wife.

So then, did he find redemption for his crime? Did he feel remorse? Those are unanswerable. I have to live my life thinking most people are good and even after doing a horrible thing, they can redeem themselves. But, his victim lives forever with what he did to her. I'm not smart enough to know how victims find peace and forgiveness.

Also, as I get older I find it is more important to care about people than things. Sexual assault victims are more important than basketball and basketball fandom. But we love things, I love things. People are too damn complex.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. Thanks for letting people work out their emotions on this thread.
This was heartfelt, nuanced, and thoughtful. Thanks for sharing.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
SoSH Member
The 20-30 feet short, meaning they needed to get that much higher/further up the hill before it crested and they would have cleared it?
Looking at the TMZ photos (I was too curious to not look), it seemed like they needed more height than that, but it's on an angle, so maybe I'm not seeing it quite right, or understanding how this works
They were flying at 2200 ft went into a steep dive and impacted the hill at an altitude of approximately 1080 ft. The impact site was roughly 20 to 30 feet below the crest of the hill. Whether or not they could have cleared the hill would depend on the angle of descent and that we don’t know. IMO the 20 to 30 feet below the crest is a bit of a red herring and people are misinterpreting its meaning. From the interview it’s pretty clear the NTSB investigators didn’t much into it. It was merely a convenient way to describe the location of the crash site.
 

h8mfy

New Member
Jul 15, 2005
337
Orange County, CA
Re Sudden descent: My friend is a recreational chopper pilot who flies out of the same OC facility and the story going around is that the pilot was disoriented relative to the horizon and thought he was ascending.
 

santadevil

wears depends
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
6,578
Saskatchestan
Thanks, that clears it up for me a bit. For some reason I was thinking ascent and they just didn't get high enough to clear. But they were coming down and I'm assuming even if they get over that crest, they are still crashing, just a few more seconds later

Those pictures showing the debris, wow. There aren't too many pieces that look whole, which I guess is a bit of a blessing, because like Gunfighter 09 said, if it was 60 seconds of fast descent, that would have been terrifying, so a quick painless ending would be the smallest of silver linings
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
It speaks to us, the consumer, a lot as well in that we were amenable to the con job. But, man, was Kobe their guy. Gross shit.
. Do you think the huge range of public figures, many of whom have flawless reputations, who have been so publicly affected by Bryant's loss, have been conned over the last 15+ years or do you think Bryant was a very different person in the last 15 years of his life than the horrible thing his did in 2003? Is he a horrible person who just hid his capacity for doing evil things really well, or a good or even great person who did something horrible? I don't think from our position that we can know, but I think there is some considerable evidence for the latter.

I don't think you can accurately describe Kobe Bryant's life, impact or legacy while leaving out what he was credibly accused of doing in Eagle, Colorado. I also don't think you can accurately describe his life, impact or legacy while focusing only on that incident. Any attempt to ignore the incident, or defend the actions of Kobe's legal team or the media at large relative to how they treated the victim should be condemned. But Bryant was clearly man who did great things for people in this world (two random examples below, I have seen quite a few) after that incident and I think some balance has to be struck between those two axis. I think people in this thread have done a great job in (in some cases exhibiting real bravery) pointing out where the media has glossed over this important part of his legacy. But I also see posts like this, or ones that condemn the name of his girls basketball academy and think we have, in some cases went too far.

View: https://twitter.com/TakeAShilllPill/status/1222148775726272512

View: https://twitter.com/truemira/status/1221998699662004226




Here is an LA Times article that captures Bryant's impact in the city well.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2020-01-26/kobe-bryant-was-all-things-beloved-reviled-revered
All of that said, I was a huge fan of Kobe the player and athlete and am a Laker fan who counts all of the Minnesota titles, I probably am biased towards wanting things to be better than they are. So, I'll stick to the flying posts after this.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
[

If I heard correctly, they were flying at 2200 ft and impacted the hill at 1085 ft in a descending turn. So the $64 question is what caused the sudden descent?

I’m always impressed with the NTSB investigations. They are always thorough, meticulous and done in a professional manner.

I spent some time today talking about this. I think there are two theories (and they could be combined) that could best explain it.



The first is potential spacial disorientation (Spacial D). It happens to everyone, even experienced pilots. Experienced pilots develop instincts for recognizing the onset of Spacial D and how to recover from it by quickly gaining / regaining a good instrument scan and control of the aircraft. It is possible that the pilot was looking down at the terrain and at his iPad and accidentally flew into the clouds / Marine layer. We call that Inadvertant Instrument Meterological Conditions (IIMC) ie. flying on the instruments when you were not expecting to have to fly on the instruments because you accidentally flew into a cloud. It can happen during the daytime when you are distracted or operating really close to clouds, but is more common at night wearing NVGs because the edges of clouds don't show up very well on the goggles, so you can fly right into a cloud and not realize it, especially fog like the SoCal Marine layer.

Once you find yourself unexpectedly inside a cloud, and especially if you have to move your head position dramatically( and thus shift the fluids in your inner ear simultaneously) because you were looking intently at an iPad or at the ground, it can be very difficult to get your bearings on the instruments and it typically takes a second to establish your instrument scan. If you don’t fly instruments that often or are startled when you enter the clouds, disorientation is much more likely. This can lead to losing control of the aircraft as you make control inputs that are not well aligned with the aircraft's changing attitude. This can be more dramatic at higher airspeeds because control inputs have greater impact due to the extra energy the airplane is carrying. Getting into an amplifying series of negative counter corrections (called pilot induced oscillation or PIO) can happen. It really helps to have another pilot in the plane to help talk you into the gauges to get your bearings, which they didn’t have. So, the crash could be a result of the pilot accidentally flying into the clouds and then losing control of the aircraft, impacting terrain in the process of / prior to completing the recovery. This seems like a decent theory, but pilots are required to practice unusual attitude recoveries every year and they are fairly ingrained for a seasons helicopter pilot like the pilot in this case, and he would have been on guard for going IIMC with the weather that was around them that day, so I imagine this is only part of the problem and not the complete picture.

Second is some sort of emergency, either by itself, or combined with the IIMC / Spacial D scenario. My brother, a helicopter mechanic and crew chief, has pointed out that the sudden descending left hand turn that doesn’t look to be made with any regard for terrain or obstacles looks a lot like the result of a sudden onset emergency like a fire, engine failure, bird/drone strike or a gear box casualty. In those cases, the pilot would try to quickly or immediately get the aircraft on the ground (no ejection seats or parachutes in a helicopter) and in this case would be doing so in bad weather, around mountainous terrain and might have inadvertently impacted terrain in the process. He might have been dealing with the emergency (which might help explain him not responding to SoCal), then went IIMC, gotten some Spacial D and then been really challenged in trying to recover, knowing that he was executing the recovery in close proximity to terrain he could not see in an already stricken aircraft that no longer had it's full performance capability.
 
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EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,400
Washington
Damn. Thanks Gunfighter. I appreciate you sharing your technical insight and experience.

I hope I never have to fly in a helicopter again.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,608
I spent some time today talking about this. I think there are two theories (and they could be combined) that could best explain it.



The first is potential spacial disorientation (Spacial D). It happens to everyone, even experienced pilots. Experienced pilots develop instincts for recognizing the onset of Spacial D and how to recover from it by quickly gaining / regaining a good instrument scan and control of the aircraft. It is possible that the pilot was looking down at the terrain and at his iPad and accidentally flew into the clouds / Marine layer. We call that Inadvertant Instrument Meterological Conditions (IIMC) ie. flying on the instruments when you were not expecting to have to fly on the instruments because you accidentally flew into a cloud. It can happen during the daytime when you are distracted or operating really close to clouds, but is more common on night wearing NVGs because the edges of clouds don't show up very well on the goggles, so you can fly right into a cloud and not realize it, especially fog like the SoCal Marine layer.

Once you find yourself unexpectedly inside a cloud, and especially if you have to move your head position dramatically( and thus shift the fluids in your inner ear simultaneously) because you were looking intently at an iPad or at the ground, it can be very difficult to get your bearings on the instruments and it typically takes a second to establish your instrument scan. If you don’t fly instruments that often or are startled when you enter the clouds, disorientation is much more likely. This can lead to losing control of the aircraft as you make control inputs that are not well aligned with the aircraft's changing attitude. This can be more dramatic at higher airspeeds because control inputs have greater impact due to the extra energy the airplane is carrying. Getting into an amplifying series of negative counter corrections (called pilot induced oscillation or PIO) can happen. It really helps to have another pilot in the plane to help talk you into the gauges to get your bearings, which they didn’t have. So, the crash could be a result of the pilot accidentally flying into the clouds and then losing control of the aircraft, impacting terrain in the process of / prior to completing the recovery. This seems like a decent theory, but pilots are required to practice unusual attitude recoveries every year and they are fairly ingrained for a seasons helicopter pilot like the pilot in this case, and he would have been on guard for going IIMC with the weather that was around them that day, so I imagine this is only part of the problem and not the complete picture.

Second is some sort of emergency, either by itself, or combined with the IIMC / Spacial D scenario. My brother, a helicopter mechanic and crew chief, has pointed out that the sudden descending left hand turn that doesn’t look to be made with any regard for terrain or obstacles looks a lot like the result of a sudden onset emergency like a fire, engine failure, bird/drone strike or a gear box casualty. In those cases, the pilot would try to quickly or immediately get the aircraft on the ground (no ejection seats or parachutes in a helicopter) and in this case would be doing so in bad weather, around mountainous terrain and might have inadvertently impacted terrain in the process. He might have been dealing with the emergency (which might help explain him not responding to SoCal), then went IIMC, gotten some Spacial D and then been really challenged in trying to recover, knowing that he was executing the recovery in close proximity to terrain he could not see in an already stricken aircraft that no longer had it's full performance capability.
When you say he might’ve looked at his iPad - I know that’s speculation, but are there rules against texting or using phones/iPads while flying a helicopter the way there are when driving?

And, if he was using it to aid in flying, why isn’t there a way to have that function incorporated into the helicopter itself so that it wouldn’t cause disorientation?
 

Preacher

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 9, 2006
6,650
Pyeongtaek, South Korea
Is he a horrible person who just hid his capacity for doing evil things really well, or a good or even great person who did something horrible? I don't think from our position that we can know, but I think there is some considerable evidence for the latter.
Of course we can never know. But I think the former is much more likely. It would be uncommon for for a good or great person to do something that horrible. It’s much easier for an evil person to hide their evil and attempt to blend or even blend very well. There’s a thread on this very forum about a murderer babysitting someone’s child post murder. That guy blended very well. It wouldn’t be a stretch for a man with a predilection to violently rape to get essentially called out for it and conform his ways for the sake of his career, yet the evil remains. I see this a lot with child Sex offenders. They never truly reform, they just learn to control their urges. In my opinion, Bryant learned to control his urges.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
When you say he might’ve looked at his iPad - I know that’s speculation, but are there rules against texting or using phones/iPads while flying a helicopter the way there are when driving?

And, if he was using it to aid in flying, why isn’t there a way to have that function incorporated into the helicopter itself so that it wouldn’t cause disorientation?


Very very few professional (or private) pilots use paper maps and publications. Everyone has their maps, instrument approach procedures and technical manuals on an iPad, typically mounted in a holder somewhere on an airplane that can be easily accessed and viewed while flying. There are several advantages to this:

-you have all of your needed information in front of you and don't need to unfold a map, reach for a checklist or flip pages in a pub
-it lights up at night
-you can zoom in (good for the old guys)
-it shows the aircraft's position relative to airspace or terrain on the map.
-the search and hyperlink functions make troubleshooting an emergency very easy as you move through checklists and system descriptions.
-you can write notes or frequencies on the "map" or checklist and quickly erase it with your fingertip.


You are not supposed to text to use the internet or other non flying related stuff while flying and people are pretty strict with that rule, per my experience. Most airlines or charter services own the iPads their pilots fly with and can check on this kind of stuff.


Yes, I am having trouble wrapping my head around single pilot helicopter iPad use. I have always flown with two pilots and have no idea what kind of habit patterns you need to build to fly the airplane and reference your maps / pubs / plates on the iPad effectively.
 
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