And "Death of an American Jewish Community" takes on the bolded here. And your mention of the Great Migration reminds me I am about a decade overdue for a re-read of "The Promised Land" by Nicholas Lemann.
Kyrie’s comments on race in Boston
- Thread starter Sam Ray Not
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I think Boston was linked nationally to racism by the school busing issue in the mid 70s and the famous photo of an African American being attacked with an American flag. And Tom Yawkey's ownership and racist views and the Sox being the last team to integrate. Auerbach's openness or pioneering vision was irrelevant.
Without going into meetooism or youtooism, racism exists everywhere, and is inexcusable, but to say a region which had an African American senator in the 60s, and which by definition meant wide voter support in Boston, saying Boston is more racist than other major cities, and cities which had race riots in the the same period, seems a stretch. But as there is no good response to relative racism, (yeah there's racism, but we're not as bad as...) any act of racism will only support the accepted narrative and others can point their finger and shame the city, a franchise or the people.
FYI I moved to Brooklyn in the early 80s and have posted more than once, that my old neighborhood of Cobble Hill-Carroll Garden, about 10 minutes from the Barclay Ctr, the kids there wore Celtic jackets because of the racial compostion of the team. They were openly and unashamedly racists.
Without going into meetooism or youtooism, racism exists everywhere, and is inexcusable, but to say a region which had an African American senator in the 60s, and which by definition meant wide voter support in Boston, saying Boston is more racist than other major cities, and cities which had race riots in the the same period, seems a stretch. But as there is no good response to relative racism, (yeah there's racism, but we're not as bad as...) any act of racism will only support the accepted narrative and others can point their finger and shame the city, a franchise or the people.
FYI I moved to Brooklyn in the early 80s and have posted more than once, that my old neighborhood of Cobble Hill-Carroll Garden, about 10 minutes from the Barclay Ctr, the kids there wore Celtic jackets because of the racial compostion of the team. They were openly and unashamedly racists.
If you haven't, I recommend The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson about the Great Migration.
Boston has a tough history to overcome. A lot of work has been done and a lot of work still needs to be done. We are at a point on a continuum and the long arc points towards justice, that's true for most of this country. The younger white folks in this city - myself included - can be thin skinned about this subject. Our view of this continuum is narrow and we reflexively argue about how Boston has grown. That said, Kyrie likes to stir the pot, as much as he likes to avoid accountability. This does both.
Yeah, I need to give that another go. For whatever reason, the writing did not grab me either in that book or in "Caste."
This is where I am. I grew up in 70s Boston, got bussed, remember my white Irish Catholic father cursing the name of Judge Garrity and using the N-word quite freely. Despite decades of trying to understand race and my duty towards people different from me, I'm not in a position to deny that a black man has experienced racism in a given time and place. I accept that Irving is saying this because it is true, not because he wants to stir the pot and get some competitive advantage.
I'm not even sure I want to watch the rest of the series, since this is now the major subplot. If the Garden fans boo Kyrie, is that confirmation? He should be booed every time he faces the Celtics for the rest of his career for tanking the Bucks series, but who now can parse the righteous boos from the racist ones?
I wish this miserable Celtics season would just end.
No way should anyone who goes to either game and boos the ever loving shit out of Kyrie have that thought cross their mind. He certainly doesn't deserve any kind of racist taunts or jeers, but he deserves literally everything else that comes his way over the next few days.
Yeah, I am honestly not looking forward to the Boston games. It’s gonna be a shitty, ugly scene with shitty talking head escapades one way or another, and I am not even talking about the basketball.
So in Philly, a fan dumps popcorn on Westbrook. And in NY, a fan spits on Trae Young.
Both victims were black men.
But no charge of racism there?
You can bet if either of those things happened in Boston, people would be calling it racism.
Both victims were black men.
But no charge of racism there?
You can bet if either of those things happened in Boston, people would be calling it racism.
Yeah. Drunk, asshole fans =/= racism. There's nothing racist, subtle or otherwise, about "Kyrie sucks!" or "Fuck you, Kyrie!" chants. That's what he's going to get. If an individual crosses the line, that is completely unacceptable, but the fans as a whole giving Kyrie the LeBron first game back in Cleveland treatment is not racist. It's absurd to think otherwise, and I hope the talking heads leave it alone.
This is the sort of denialism that it isn't helpful. White player/GM saying that in 26 years nothing of any sort has ever happened, or more specifically, hasn't "heard" of that happening. Does it occur to Danny that this might reflect more on his own blinders than anything else? There's not a city in the U.S. for which that's believable, much less Boston -- I mean, it's believable that the white dude didn't notice/wasn't talked to about it, but not that nothing has happened (which is what Ainge seems to be implying). I've attended far, far more games at Fenway, and maybe Celtics games are way different than Red Sox games, but...given the sort of things i've personally heard --much less some well publicized incidents (Adam Jones...) -- I have a hard time believing that black basketball players in Boston have been insulated from that. And I certainly don't believe it because Danny Ainge says so.
Sometimes it's worthwhile to just step back and let others talk.
Marcus Smart’s comments are more along the lines of what HRB though they could be and more of a stance than I expected....
View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1398008063920152577
View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1398008063920152577
Agreed, Danny's tone-deafness sucks.
I'll stand by my comment. Boston sports teams ownership need to whip out the checkbook (not that it's a solution) and get out in front of this. They all have received the benefit of a rabid fan base, now they have to use their financial wherewithal to try and right some wrongs.
Kevin Durant backed up his teammate, saying “everybody knows” Boston is a racist city.
This can start spiraling, we may not like the narrative, but it's starting to gain momentum. Just need LeBron and AD to throw some gas on the fire and we'll have underappreciated Jaylen Brown and Dukie Jayson Tatum wondering why they play in Boston.
Speaking of Marcus Smart, there was this:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/marcus-smart-nba-boston-celtics-covid-racial-injustice
But the incident that has stuck with me the most, and that’s had the biggest impact on me, occurred a few years back after a victory at the Garden.
I was pulling out of the arena parking lot when I saw a white woman with her five- or six-year-old son crossing against the light right as the cars were starting to come at them. I had my windows down and realized something bad was about to happen, so I yelled to her, politely, that she needed to hurry and get out of the street so the two of them wouldn’t get hurt.
The woman was wearing an Isaiah Thomas number 4 Celts jersey. And there were all these other Celtics fans around who were at the game. I figured she’d be cool.
Nope.
She swung her head around and it was….
“F*** you, you f***ing n-word!!!!”
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/marcus-smart-nba-boston-celtics-covid-racial-injustice
But the incident that has stuck with me the most, and that’s had the biggest impact on me, occurred a few years back after a victory at the Garden.
I was pulling out of the arena parking lot when I saw a white woman with her five- or six-year-old son crossing against the light right as the cars were starting to come at them. I had my windows down and realized something bad was about to happen, so I yelled to her, politely, that she needed to hurry and get out of the street so the two of them wouldn’t get hurt.
The woman was wearing an Isaiah Thomas number 4 Celts jersey. And there were all these other Celtics fans around who were at the game. I figured she’d be cool.
Nope.
She swung her head around and it was….
“F*** you, you f***ing n-word!!!!”
is there a link for this? Or is this just speculation? I can’t find anything from Durant.
apologies I forgot to attach from WEEI article. Both articles quote KD
KD may have been the background voice?
https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/celtics/stephen-a-smith-defends-boston-after-kyrie-irvings-remarks
https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/celtics/why-kyrie-irvings-remarks-could-be-damaging-to-the-celtics
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It’s on video. He was sitting next to Kyrie when he made his comments about Boston. You can hear him say it off camera.
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9YiHF8gjnE&t=2m38s
And? This isn’t an issue where players are gonna close ranks with the city they play in for the sake of it. If he stroked the fan base a bit before saying he’s heard racist shit, would you feel better?
Of course, the tweet left out huge parts of what Marcus actually said:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/27/sports/marcus-smart-looks-respect-td-garden-faithful-both-friend-foe-alike/
Another incident in Utah last night, too. So sad players and their families have to put up with this.
(Note: not posting this to deflect from very real criticisms of Boston fans or say it happens everywhere to absolve what happens in Boston, just thought it was an appropriate thread for this.)
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31523231/utah-jazz-ban-three-fans-verbal-altercation-game-2-vs-grizzlies
(Note: not posting this to deflect from very real criticisms of Boston fans or say it happens everywhere to absolve what happens in Boston, just thought it was an appropriate thread for this.)
Where the hell did I say that? It’s a pretty damning quote. I’m not saying Marcus should have said how much he loved Boston, it’s just pretty telling that he didn’t.
Do you just go around in every thread, looking to imply someone is racist or insensitive? It is all you do.
LTP...I took your post as saying that in the past he said how much he loves this city and team, yet now he is saying he's heard racist stuff...so how could it be both ways?
edit: Unnecessary trolling, I apologize.
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No, definitely not. It's a sad reality that Marcus and others have had to experience that. As HRB said earlier, silence would say a lot. Marcus said a lot more, and it's very eye opening.
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it's pretty clear that there's a big ass problem in the NBA
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31523231/utah-jazz-ban-three-fans-verbal-altercation-game-2-vs-grizzlies
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31523231/utah-jazz-ban-three-fans-verbal-altercation-game-2-vs-grizzlies
Every fanbase has a racist element, that's true.
Also... Boston probably is in the 2nd tier of most racist stuff, behind OKC and Utah from what people in the game say.
Pretending Boston fanbases don't have a problem is silly, they just need to be aggressive and public in cracking down to show players (and other fans) that they truly find it unacceptable. Danny Ainge pretending he's never heard anyone say that about Boston is some delusional nonsense (also I'm almost certain it's a straight out lie).
Also... Boston probably is in the 2nd tier of most racist stuff, behind OKC and Utah from what people in the game say.
Pretending Boston fanbases don't have a problem is silly, they just need to be aggressive and public in cracking down to show players (and other fans) that they truly find it unacceptable. Danny Ainge pretending he's never heard anyone say that about Boston is some delusional nonsense (also I'm almost certain it's a straight out lie).
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1398424228999925760
Jaylen Brown, unsurprisingly, has a great perspective on this and it's worth listening to the whole 5 minutes.
Jaylen Brown, unsurprisingly, has a great perspective on this and it's worth listening to the whole 5 minutes.
I love Jaylen brown. That was a well thought out statement that really covers everything.
I liked that he didn’t shy away from the main issue or let Kyrie slide for bringing it up in the completely self serving manner that he did.
That’s real leadership and Ite been sorely missed with these other statements (Ainge, Smart and Tatum all apply here)
I liked that he didn’t shy away from the main issue or let Kyrie slide for bringing it up in the completely self serving manner that he did.
That’s real leadership and Ite been sorely missed with these other statements (Ainge, Smart and Tatum all apply here)
I can’t agree that Smart’s or Taytum’s comments lack leadership. They are different responses than Jaylen’s bit assuming it is their honest feelings on the matter it’s their experience and it is every bit as impactful as Jaylen’s. Sorry it wasn’t what you wanted to hear.
So after his comments, lots of Kyrie sucks and F U Kyrie tonight. 6-17 from the floor in 41 minutes. Hmm.
If true, this obviously reflects horribly on Ainge.
But doesn't it also take Kyrie further into "incredibly shitty human being" territory? The dude just has very few redeeming qualities.
I would love to know what the opportunity cost of keeping Kyrie that last year was, especially at the deadline when we all knew it was headed towards an end. I seem to recall some people like nighthob advocating dealing him, which is what they should have done since AD clearly wasn’t coming here.