I might be picking nits here, but ATM I'm not sure I'm ready to place the Duran egg in that basket. He was miles better last season than he was previously, but there was a huge drop off in August. Part of that is likely due to the turf toe issues that led to him being shut down, but there are also some mental health issues that he's been open about.
I would trade Yoshi too. Not sure he has any market since most execs thought Sox overpaid for him.
Serious question that is not aimed solely at you. How much money are we willing to pay players on other teams for players we are going to wait to develope?
Because it’s a skill related to hand eye coordination that can’t just be taught successfully to everyone. It’s not like there are guys throwing 100 with arm side run and a lack of vertical drop who were just never properly told to “just throw it on the corners” or something. It’s more nature vs nurture.
We’re still back to “How does anyone have command?” because baseball players, pretty universally, have excellent hand to eye coordination. At some point pitchers learn it. Again, I get where maybe it’s tough when you’re drafting guys aged 21-23. But guys signed at 16? They should be teachable.
It’s like asking how is anyone able to throw 95? It’s mostly genetics and talent. I’m not saying things can’t be done to improve someone’s command. Working on balance, flexibility, and being able to consistently repeat a delivery helps a lot. But some guys will never get there because they just don’t have the natural ability to put something where they are aiming it consistently. And sure hitters have excellent hand eye coordination but not all pitchers do.
None for him, if it is 1 years of Jansen and 2-3 million I can live with that. Part of me thinks we should hold off until the trade deadline and see if we are out of it or close but unwilling to be buyers again, we should see what we can get as sellers. I don't think anyone wants to repeat the deadline errors of 222.
You say "available" like the front office just can sign anyone they want at a Free Agent Store at any time. Of the Top 11 starters on the market:
Do you realize incredible difference between the pitches of a potential major leaguer and some high school aged kid? These guys are throwing secondary pitches that can drop over a yard while coming out at 80+ mph while pinning it in a zone about the size of lawn chair? Do you realize how difficult that is? All the while trying to keep a consistent release so the guy who had the reaction time of Top Gun pilot doesn't turn on the pitch and launch it at over 100 mph out of a ball park. The precision needed to pull this off is ridiculous.
Didn’t we just hear that other clubs were asking the Sox about Yoshida?
If E-Rod had zero chance of signing here, why did the Red Sox meet with him?
The Sox might have been interested in him, the reports were that E-Rod didn't want to play for Cora again. So no real reason for the Sox not to take a meeting.
In fact I do. And in the IFA market you’re signing high school aged kids and developing them. The fact is that Boston has done a good job of finding the 16 year olds with live arms, they have them throughout the system (Perales, Gonzalez, Yordanny Monegro, Jedixson Paez, et al). Paez seems to have developed great command. But it’s been a problem otherwise. Apparently the FSG people seem to agree as they chose a pitching guru to be their DBO.
Or maybe the chance wasn't zero?
They definitely seem to have become gunshy about signing older pitchers to long term deals. We may need to learn to live with that fact.
I'll be more OK with that fact when they actually lock-in one of the rare young arms to come up through the system! Bello is affordable. Until he's not.
Thank you. It is mind-blowing how few people are capable of considering this, apparently.
Which one of those guys do you like better as our fifth starter than Tanner Houck?
I disagree only in the sense that I think the Red Sox could have overpaid to get YY, as they did with Yoshida. Is LA worth an extra $10M? $50M? There’s no dollar value to offset Southern California? Would the fan base at large be pissed if the Sox went to $375M?
Theoretically not impossible but we know he wanted to be in Los Angeles and we know from reports that Yamamoto’s process included deciding on location before talking $ and terms.
The Dodgers are already paying YY $375M ($325M over 12 years plus $50M signing bonus). So the Red Sox would have had to beat that. The question is by how much.
The signing bonus is included in the $325M (there is an additional posting fee of around $50M) but I agree that the Dodgers would have paid what they needed to get him and he basically wasn’t obtainable for other teams regardless of what they offered (realistically).
If they already had 5 starters better than Lugo, why did they meet with him and extend him an offer?
I posted something like this in the pitching thread: if you add Whitlock to the mix you have 4 starters, all of whom are not likely to go deep in games. Is it possible to to set up tandem starters where you can plan for 7-8 innings from 2 guys every 5 days…
I third the idea that we are mid-way through a full-on reimagining of what a pitching staff is and that Big Ideas like this could be more realistic than they were just five years ago. I have no opinion on if it's likely to work but I do think this kind of thing is worth trying: we've seen TBR turn out a ton of all-but-free pitching production by embracing the opener. If the Sox aren't going to spend big money on the staff, I would love to see them throw big ideas at it. Particularly if we're in another "bridge year," why not use it as a laboratory?
And with no obvious way to improve the rotation without Free Agents or via trade for the foreseeable future - there is no cavalry waiting in the minors. Doing nothing now kicks the can forward.
Where did those reports come from? I can't find anything on it.
I’m convinced they could have done more, and still should, but the YY case is pretty unique (I qualify because maybe he and Ohtani had the same situation).
The statement about Yamamoto's contract isn't correct. Maybe you left something out there.
https://nesn.com/2023/12/why-red-sox-reportedly-didnt-make-offer-to-eduardo-rodriguez/
I thought you asked where the reports that they actually met were coming from. I will concede that if you were asking about the rift with Cora specifically, my response was lacking. And I think most of that talk was tweets and such, with writers speculating based on the history between the two.
Ah, ok, sorry I missed it! Also thanks for cross-posting this to the other thread, and I had left out Whitlock, you're right, which would allow you to work tandems or still use 3 and give one of those guys an extra bit of rest if pitch counts/high stress innings piled up.
Ha thanks, glad all that hunting for a gif didn't go to waste.
The lack of pitchers going 150 innings is a result of league-wide injuries. Teams would love to have more than two handling that workload, but the velocity and spin rate arms race that constantly blows out elbows makes it very difficult. Going into a season planning on only having 2 guys throw that many innings if everyone stays healthy is most likely to result in nobody throwing 150 innings and the entire pitching staff collapsing.
What history though? This is what I'm trying to get at. When E-Rod turned down the trade to the Dodgers, Cora said he was proud of him. To me Cora seemed to have a close, almost fatherly relationship with him.
I wasn't trying to equate Duran and Casas as in the same level, that should have been more clear.
As someone that has spent all manner of time (and will continue to) bashing Bloom for the 2022 and 2023 deadlines, specifically, this is a fair stance to hold, for sure.
The actual article/tweet will be hard to locate, I’m sure, but prominently featured in it was the episode against the Astros in the ‘21 ALCS when ERod, exiting after 6+ high-caliber innings, gives Correa a taste of his own “My Time” gesture, pointing to his watch. Cora was instantly furious. This was presented as either a fulcrum in their relationship or evidence of its already worm-eaten condition. I can’t remember which.
You feel strongly they should trade Jansen and Martin before the season?
Again, it's gossip, and as likely bullshit as not. It's not unique in that regard. I couldn't give a shit.
So Cora didn't like E-Rod showing up another player. But where's the evidence that E-Rod was angry at Cora about it?
It's not TMZ, but more than one poster has stated that Cora and E-Rod had a damaged relationship and 'there was no way E-Rod was coming back to Boston' and that's why the Sox made little effort to sign him. The report you found says something completely different. That's all.
Fair question. I'll address this as someone that a) likes Yoshida but b) can see the appeal of trading him.
Ah, thanks, my bad; I misunderstood that. I stopped paying careful attention once he chose the Dodgers. I completely agree with the rest of your sentence.
If they actually go into camp with a rotation that looks anything like Bello, Giolito, Crawford, any combination of (not extended) Pivetta, Whitlock, Winckowski, Houck, Paxton, Lorenzen, Ryu, whatever, then yes, I certainly do. I would add (not extended Pivetta) to the trade immediately list.
I think this is a very fair point. And I believe that this ownership group has an underlying arrogance to them that players will want to stay here or come here for less than market because they are the almighty Boston Red Sox, winners of 4 titles this century. Most passionate fans in baseball. America's most beloved ballpark. They can't simply rely on this outdated narrative any longer.
