I'd respect Magary's message more if he admitted that he/Deadspin built their audience exactly the same way Portnoy has.That lunkheaded strategy has, thus far, served them well. As you already know, there’s profit to be had these days in being an unrepentant cock. And Barstool gets away with it because the mainstream media still generally treats Barstool with kid gloves because they’re either too lazy to grasp the depths of Portnoy’s asshattery, or because they fear having a bunch of random assholes sicced onto them.
PFT doesn’t count?Barstool is still under Portnoy's purview, and it still acting the same way they always have. And Deadspin, to the best of my knowledge, never doxxed anyone .
I guess they do, but it's almost a spin-off at this point.PFT doesn’t count?
This is fair, and I agree. A while ago Barry at Deadspin did address this in this mea culpa when some of the awful things he said got outed by Barstool. It's OK to say "I used to be a shithead. I hope I've become better."I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I think it's fair to say that Barstool Sports is just the next step in an (d)evolution -- it's basically Sports by Brooks + Deadspin + Tucker Max with social media heft. I think ignoring Deadspin's role in that weakens Magary's message.
"We used to be shitheads, too, but at some point we grew up -- when will Barstool?" is a necessary part of a Barstool-related takedown on Deadspin.
And some eye rolling takes that I find deadspin falling into too often:“[Take] a good hard look at the man you’ve been, and ask if that’s really the man you want to be,” wrote longtime columnist Drew Magary, who once drew the ire of GLAAD for his own homophobic insensitivity.
“Deadspin caters to the smartest people,” she said. “It’s the people with the best sense of humor, giving you the smartest takes.”
After Charlotte Wilder, a Sports Illustrated writer in her 20s, hosted two popular Barstool personalities on her Web series, Wagner tweeted a link to the video with a message: “sports media advice for women: not this.” She also criticized Wilder in a follow-up piece for offering a friendly venue to joke about the canceled ESPN show.
I thought the Post ran a pretty balanced take of what deadspin was and where it's going: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/at-deadspin-can-the-cool-kids-of-the-sports-internet-become-its-moral-authority/2019/02/25/c6045556-1368-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html
It includes apologies from Magary and others re: the above point and how they've attempted to rebrand the site:
And some eye rolling takes that I find deadspin falling into too often:
Spare me the hipster tokenism. God that's terrible.“They want to be some kind of moral arbiter, but whose morality?” he said. “They really sound like a parody of being self-serious.”
Greenwell pushes back at that critique, even as she occasionally embodies it. When explaining that she lives in Brooklyn’s Williamsburg neighborhood, she added, “but the part where a lot of Puerto Rican families live.”
I'm pretty sure that Magary (or other Deadspin staff) has admitted that Deadspin wasn't a great place to be back in the day. That especially under Dauliero, they were almost just as shitty as Barstool but they've changed.This article feels like the old anti-drugs ad where the father confronts his son and the kid says "I learned it by watching you." Deadspin's success (which Magary manages to reference in the article) was built on some pretty awful behavior, and Magary wasn't exactly the world's most evolved human when he was "Big Daddy Drew" over at Uproxx.
Replace "Barstool" with "Deadspin" and "Portnoy" with "Daulerio" and this quote is 100% applicable to Deadspin ~10 years ago.
I'd respect Magary's message more if he admitted that he/Deadspin built their audience exactly the same way Portnoy has.
I hear you, but:This idea that no one can cast a stone unless their record is 100% spotless is getting tiring -- and I don't mean to pick up you nattysez. But it's affecting pretty much every debate that is being waged in the last five years. And it's muddying up the debate (which is what it's intended to do) and no changes can be made.
"Examining the source" is kind of what this whole subforum is about, I think, but to each his own.examining the source of the critique it’s irrelevant and, actually, uninteresting to boot.
In this case I don’t think it’s helpful or advisable because of how egregious Barstool’s conduct is compared to what one can generously call their ‘peers’.I hear you, but:
(1) given the length and forcefulness of his screed, I think he could have spent one sentence reiterating and linking to the mea culpas for past behavior;
(2) I hate "whataboutism," but this is not the GOP digging up some 30 year-old Democratic scandal to try to take the winds from the sails of Trump criticism -- this is a guy criticizing a site without acknowledging that he and the site he's writing for have behaved very similarly in the past.
Edit: "Examining the source" is kind of what this whole subforum is about, I think, but to each his own.
I hear what you’re saying but does Alex Spier have to bring up Ron Borges or Mike Barnicle if he’s writing a story on cheating?I hear you, but:
(1) given the length and forcefulness of his screed, I think he could have spent one sentence reiterating and linking to the mea culpas for past behavior;
(2) I hate "whataboutism," but this is not the GOP digging up some 30 year-old Democratic scandal to try to take the winds from the sails of Trump criticism -- this is a guy criticizing a site without acknowledging that he and the site he's writing for have behaved very similarly in the past.
Edit: "Examining the source" is kind of what this whole subforum is about, I think, but to each his own.
I would think he might want to if he's making a blanket cheating accusation of the Herald (or whichever competitor you'd prefer).I hear what you’re saying but does Alex Spier have to bring up Ron Borges or Mike Barnicle if he’s writing a story on cheating?
Would a sentence linking to an apology help? Sure. But at the same time do you think if a Stoolie sees that, his mind will change?
That's fair, I suppose.I would think he might want to if he's making a blanket cheating accusation of the Herald (or whichever competitor you'd prefer).
Ugh, I’ve never liked Greenwell and I’ve been looking for a place to get it off my chest so here’s my chance.God, Greenwell is just too fucking precious:
Spare me the hipster tokenism. God that's terrible.
He apologized (or, more accurately, owned up to it) back in 2017.And I know this breed of fella quite well because, in some ways, I am one.
I have written for this site for a decade, and if you dip into my back archive, you’ll find posts that are just as shitty as some of the posts that Portnoy had thrown in his face after his ESPN deal surfaced. One time I wrote a post called “In Defense of Female Objectification,” which featured the standard frat bro logic of, “Don’t blame men for being horny! That’s just the way we are!” I also joined in the comments on a post that goofed on high school football player Holley Mangold (sister of former Jets center Nick) for her size and appearance. She was 16 at the time. And, of course, I wrote a post calling LeBron James a cocksucker. Three posts, actually. When GLAAD got angry about the first post, I remember going to my old boss and being like, “Why are they mad? Cocksucker just means asshole!” I considered only my definition of the slur to be valid, conveniently overruling the definition of people who rightfully take the term literally...
I don't think the problem with Magary is his lack of contrition or a failure to acknowledge Deadspin's shitty history. Instead its that he is wasting his talent writing hacky scolding columns that pretty much go after the same targets over and over. At this point he is essentially CHB with more virtue signaling.
He pretty pointedly goes after Dan Katz and PMT, which I think is pretty lame. I've been listening to them since around the same time he apologized in 2017 and haven't heard anything that crosses the line from those two. Portnoy is obviously fair game because he sucks, but PMT just seems like the normal deadspin complaints directed at Simmons and other competitors more successful than they are.Portnoys band of misogynist shitbags should be "gone after" at every opportunity. It's like ignoring David Duke or Kevin spacey if they speak in public because "we always do that."
Editor’s note — I know Feits [Barstool blogger Feitelberg] blogged this already. But I wrote it up too because I’m fired the [expletive] up. [Expletive] SAM PONDER THAT BIBLE THUMPING FREAK … this dumb. Seriously you sound like a KO Barstool freak, not a chick that has a job where the #1 requirement is you [turn men on]. So give it a rest with your righteous indignation. Your entire career and livelihood is based on appealing to guys like me and blogs like ours. Bottomline [sic] is guys thinking chicks are hot is natural. It’s Darwinism. It’s never gonna change. But that doesn’t mean we don’t respect women and think it’s okay to hit a woman. I have no idea what’s so confusing about that. Go [expletive] yourself.”
Yeah, a post from 2014. Three years removed from Magary posting headlines calling people cocksuckers and two years later he appeared on their podcast to push his book. There's no doubt both of them were assholes, but I think both have moved passed that periods of their careers.I don’t think Magary is too concerned about “going after” brands that are “more successful” than Deadspin. He’s a pretty successful guy in his own right.
And Dan Katz? This guy?
I think the point of going after Katz and PFT is that they lend the air of legitimacy to Barstool and Portnoy and are often held up as the meat of Barstool's content when in fact they are the extreme outlier. And it took Katz a long time to publicly speak out and tell his listeners to stop harassing and doxxing critics. Barstool depends on PMT for a massive amount of their success; if Katz and PFT don't say anything about Portnoy's repeated shitheadedness and misogyny, it's fair to wonder if they're part of the enabling problem.He pretty pointedly goes after Dan Katz and PMT, which I think is pretty lame. I've been listening to them since around the same time he apologized in 2017 and haven't heard anything that crosses the line from those two. Portnoy is obviously fair game because he sucks, but PMT just seems like the normal deadspin complaints directed at Simmons and other competitors more successful than they are.
I don't think is true at all. Mainstream access, sure. But, given Nardini's strategy and focus, I don't think PMT leaving would cause the ship to sink.I think the point of going after Katz and PFT is that they lend the air of legitimacy to Barstool and Portnoy and are often held up as the meat of Barstool's content when in fact they are the extreme outlier. And it took Katz a long time to publicly speak out and tell his listeners to stop harassing and doxxing critics. Barstool depends on PMT for a massive amount of their success; if Katz and PFT don't say anything about Portnoy's repeated shitheadedness and misogyny, it's fair to wonder if they're part of the enabling problem.
Going after Barstool for doxxing, trolling, and harassment (especially of women, of which they are grossly guilty) should ALWAYS happen. I think part of this is personal for Magary because Portnoy specifically targeted Drew's co-worker Laura Wagner with tons of really gross comments.
Boy I hope we get a chance to find out.I don't think is true at all. Mainstream access, sure. But, given Nardini's strategy and focus, I don't think PMT leaving would cause the ship to sink.
Thank you for your valid and necessary contribution to this thread.It's not worth much.
It was as valid and necessary as the post I was responding to.Considering the definition of dox (per Google) is "search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent", yes it was doxxing. There was clear malicious intent unless uncovering the true name of a famous blogger/podcaster who isn't in the news for, um, reasons somehow falls under valid journalistic pursuits.
Unfortunately, Eric died shortly after the article.
Thank you for your valid and necessary contribution to this thread.
I think his response to that article shows why everything isn't entirely black and white - he publicly pushed for the whole thing to die rather than make a big deal of it.To point out that the presence of PFT gave Barstool the veneer of legitimacy despite the continued awful behavior of both its publisher and its readers. At that point Wagner had already been subject to constant harassment and leering comments from Portnoy and his douchebag jabronis.
I never thought that PFT article was unfair at all. If Barstool and it's employees don't want to get called out for terrible behavior, they could always stop behaving terribly.
Being anonymous while working for Shitstain, Inc. was like the Klan's accountant also wearing a hood. "But I'm only the accountant and I complied with GAAP."Which could have very well been accomplished without the doxxing part. Unless two wrongs make a right now.
Is that big of him, or merely avoiding the Streisand effect? By pushing for the whole thing to die he gets to sink back into his anonymity that much quicker.I think his response to that article shows why everything isn't entirely black and white - he publicly pushed for the whole thing to die rather than make a big deal of it.
I dunno, I can't really think of a much better way to handle it. He clearly didn't want it to happen, but went out of his way to not have people get on her case as both he and Dan have consistently done since I've been listening to them.Is that big of him, or merely avoiding the Streisand effect? By pushing for the whole thing to die he gets to sink back into his anonymity that much quicker.
Besides, Sollenberger isn't that easy to spell or remember offhand as it is.
Okay. You hate them. Nothing will change that as seen by the fact your one degree away from Godwin’s Law. I love PFT, Big Cat, and the broader PMT and legitimately look forward to their podcast every other weekday. It brings immense joy to me and, as seen by my posting, I’m not going to let others at SoSH hamper that joy. So that ship has sailed and feel free to judge me for that as I’m sure has happened.Being anonymous while working for Shitstain, Inc. was like the Klan's accountant also wearing a hood. "But I'm only the accountant and I complied with GAAP."
Its not two wrongs.