This really isn't true, and I wish people would stop repeating it. They semi-shut him down in early September because he was close to their innings limit, and then they let him throw 80 pitches in a game eleven days after his previous appearance. His velocity was down in this one game under odd circumstances, that's it.
His results in the 2nd half were poor as well. He was lights out in the 1st half, and then changed his approach, and was not very good, but did not give up the "experiment"..
If Pineda's 2nd half in 2011 looked like Brandon McCarthy's 2011 or Brandon Morrow's season so far in 2012, I'd be inclined to think that, in the words of Pee Wee Herman, that he meant to sacrifice fastball velocity for the sake of becoming a better pitcher.
We're agreeing more than we are disagreeing, JA. He did show up physically and probably mentally complacent, and that led to a mediocre spring.
Makes perfect sense. You have a rookie who is lights out in the first half deciding to change his approach so he can become a better pitcher in the future and save his arm, which gets much worse results in the present, and sticks with the latter instead of going back to the former. Despite his efforts to become and better pitcher and save his arm by throwing at reduced velocity in ST, his arm suddenly develops problems because he attempts, but fails, to throw at last years first half velocity.
I'm more than a little bit excited about Campos. I think we all are. 6-foot-4, 195 pounds, from Venezuela. Dominating in his first three starts, solid in his fourth after giving up an early homer. Still, same thing as with all young pitchers, it's a long road filled with pitfalls.
Cool post. I love sarcasm as much as anyone and it works here. Your final point is good, too. But the truth is, it takes five or 10 years to evaluate trades involving young players and prospects.
Oh come on. If he missed the whole year you'd be terrified that they gave up a once in a decade prospect bat in Montero for a guy who missed most of the 2009 season with injury, then missed most of the 2012 season with injury (if that happened), has a rough delivery and is likely to become increasingly hefty. if you put the second piece of bad news (2012) in there with the others you can't possibly say you like the trade except in a whistling past the graveyard sort of fashion.
I agree with jon -- I still like the deal too. I'd be worried about it, but the many years of cost control + Campos still make me think it was a good idea. Especially since it doesn't seem like Montero is going to be a solid catching option. I have more confidence in the Yankees acquiring a quality FA DH (if needed) over the next couple of years than I do quality FA pitchers.
I might be missing someone but I think Curt Schilling (surgery in the late 90's when he was with Philly, IIRC) might be the only guy who had labrum surgery and came back as the same guy afterward.
I think Peavy had a labrum procedure as well. Jury still out on him but he keep showing flashes.
I was just going to point this out. Labrum surgery will bring with it the eternal tag of "damaged goods". Even if he reaches 80% of his pre-injury potential, the Yankees (and every other team) are going to be very reluctant to give him big money over a number of years. Really sucks for him
I'm no doctor, but I can't imagine he pitches this season.
Pedro did this, too. And Freddy Garcia. Up until recently, it was a career-ender, but it seems like that has changed over the last couple years. Jake Peavy's doctor actually has a huge grant from MLB, presumably because his treatment of Peavy's injury was a.) unprecedented, and b.) surprisingly effective.
This is what I'm thinking. Of course Cashman wants it to be a freak accident and something no one could have foreseen cause it makes him look like less of an idiot. Just doesn't add up.
Unless he had some shoulder fatigue/tendonitis that caused him to alter his mechanics and that led to the injury, like Papelbpn's subluxation episode.
In line with this thinking, maybe the Mariners tossed in their best young pitching prospect (Campos) to assuage their conscience!
I think the MFY overvalued their own guy (Montero), and it never occurred to them that they should be leery of why Pineda was available at any price, let alone in exchange for a guy whose stock had fallen significantly since he'd been perhaps the top prospect in baseball two years earlier.
I wouldn't go that far - the Mariners have a number of good to excellent pitching prospects on the horizon for the next couple years, whereas they have what, 3 hitters that (going into this year) were likely to be above-average (Ackley, Smoak, Ichiro)? Ichiro's likely on the downswing, and they have maybe a couple people who could theoretically become reasonable... but even now, they're running Olivo and his .273 wOBA (2011) out there (and he's currently OPS'ing .372). That's the definition of a team that needs to trade strength (pitching) for weakness (hitting).
Every team overvalues its prospects. And Montero's abilities were no secret by the time the Yankees traded him. They dealt him off the high of his performance with the big club last September. But the Mariners and everyone else knew he was a project behind the plate. And even though Montero seems like a can't-miss hitting prospect, that doesn't mean he's going to hit like Edgar Martinez. Or even Victor Martinez.
Who knows? Only time will tell.
Pedroia was awful his first 59 AB's, actually, more like 180 going back to 2006, and he got over it.
Fair enough. I am struck by how much ballparks determine hitting success. Griffey Jr. tried to get out of Seattle as soon as they built Safeco. Now the Twins hitters are crying about their new field. Balls die in the gaps, as we saw two nights ago. OTOH, Fenway and NYS are very favorable places to hit.
Which is why I said wasn't - Campos wasn't their "best young" pitching prospect at the time of the trade. Taijuan Walker was a far superior prospect at a higher level and at a younger age than Campos at the time of the trade. And, considering how recent that was, he still is considered a superior talent.
Labral tears are bad news for pitchers, it's better than it used to be pre 2004 the return to pitching rate was only 3% with Schilling being one of the lucky few.
One of his biggest mistakes? Well see since Cashman has a long list of mess ups.
The problem is that in the end it will end up costing the team money. Who's going to replace Pineda in the rotation? Andy, who cost the Yankees another 2.5$ mill to sign. Who's going to replace him next season? Another free agent signing. It's going to hurt them $$ wise it's just not as obvious.
