JBJ_HOF said:
Rumors coming from non-Red Sox related reporters all have Dombrowski bound for Toronto to replace Paul Beeston. But we've always been a more provincial sort.
Lucchino out as CEO?
- Thread starter TimScribble
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Rumors coming from non-Red Sox related reporters all have Dombrowski bound for Toronto to replace Paul Beeston. But we've always been a more provincial sort.
Wouldn't Werner/Henry prefer a candidate who is younger and will do what they want, not an established guy like DD who is going to butt heads when he thinks they're wrong?
The X Man Cometh said:
I think that they need a guy like, someone who's going to tell W/H that they're wrong occasionally. You can't have every person in an organization thinking the exact same thing all of the time. That's how monumentally dumb decisions are made. Sort of like, "Hey, let's get five number three starters and wing it!"
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I don't think that's necessarily a dumb decision. If they had five "#3 starters" then they'd be fine, at least for the regular season. The problem is that they don't even have one.
The X Man Cometh said:
That's basically what they sold us this past winter.
It's been kind of a disaster.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Well separate the idea and the execution. There's no reason a team with a bunch of good MLB starters and a deep pen can't have a strong pitching staff overall. Who is the 'ace' on KC? STL?
What they "sold" you would have been fine if it happened.
I never agree with Mazz or anyone of that nature but Warner taking over Larry's baseball role would be awful. They need a tenured guy in there that has had success in his career. Baird does not strike me as someone who should be leaned on for any type of decision.
It sounds like the media loves Dombrowski and they are the ones pushing him. I'm sure he gives them a lot of info and is fun to have a beer with. The president of baseball operations position seems to have changed into a way to poach another teams top GM and calling it a promotion. The Red Sox could not do this when Theo left because LL was in the seat. Hopefully they use his leaving as an opportunity to do that. I hope #1 on their list is someone like Dodgers GM Farhan Zaidi or Pirates GM Neal Huntington.
The X Man Cometh said:
The Royals' bullpen is lights-out. The Sox have a 40-year-old Uehara and a bunch of flotsam. The Cards had Lackey and a couple of studs who (Martinez and Macha) were looking to make "the leap" as Bill Simmons has put it.
The Sox had Buchholz, Porcello, Masterson, Kelly and Miley. None of which are in the same stratosphere as the Cards hurlers. What you've seen with those guys is pretty much what you were going to get, with the exception of Kelly. Buch was injury-prone, Masterson was a reclamation project, Miley who aside from 2012 has been pretty much league average. Porcello was/is interesting but he doesn't have a lot of swing-and-miss stuff. And like Miley, has been pretty vanilla.
The Red Sox took five vanilla pitchers and tried to sell us on one of them, by virtue of the law of averages, will be an ace. Without really looking at past performances. It never should have happened.
Huh? The media thinks hes an excellent executive because he is one. His two main jobs have been under ownership situations that were extremely difficult for polar opposite reasons, and he did well in both. His most recent job, he took the worst team in modern history, with basically no farm system, and turned them into a perennial contender within three years. He is a phenomenal judge of talent and the Red Sox would be lucky to have him.gammoseditor said:
The X Man Cometh said:
Exactly right. The 2001 Seattle Mariners won 116 games with a rotation of #3's.
STARK: DOMBROWSKI-RED SOX 'NATURAL FIT'
Jayson Stark wonders if Boston will pursue Dave Dombrowski: "Larry Lucchino just stepped down over the last few days. Dave Dombrowski's worked with [Red Sox owner] John Henry with the Marlins."
Jayson Stark wonders if Boston will pursue Dave Dombrowski: "Larry Lucchino just stepped down over the last few days. Dave Dombrowski's worked with [Red Sox owner] John Henry with the Marlins."
Carlos Martinez 2.61 ERAThe X Man Cometh said:
John Lackey 2.78 ERA
Lance Lynn 2.89
Michael Wacha 3.09
Pilgrim said:
Dunno. This is always mentioned as an excuse for the terrible deals he's been giving out, but DD has been the guy behind God in the Tigers organization. What he says goes. His bullpens have been awful, and last January Keith Law ranked the Detroit farm system the worst in Baseball. In my view, he'll leave Detroit in a worse position than Ben will leave the Red Sox when he gets fired (reading from the article linked above, that sounds like a foregone conclusion).
I mean, I like DD (I think he looks cool and dresses well + he did get the Tigers to the ALCS a few times). But I don't quite get the excitement there, I must say.
I should be more fair to Dombrowski. He isn't awful. He may even be above average. But I don't think we should settle for above average. We have a prime opening and our goal should be to have the best front office in baseball. I don't believe Dombrowski is the guy to get us there. He won a lot of games in a division that was awful if you took out the Tigers.Pilgrim said:
Does it seem fishy that Dombrowski would trade David Price to the Blue Jays and then leave a week later to join him?
Gordon Edes reported hours ago the Red Sox have no interest in Dombrowski.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/45856/source-red-sox-not-pursuing-david-dombrowski
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/45856/source-red-sox-not-pursuing-david-dombrowski
Rudy Pemberton said:
True, he wouldn't technically be there until Price left. But the Jays actually making some legitimate noise this year could certainly provide a level of "no seriously, I know it's Canada but sign here for a real shot at winning" momentum he'd then be looking to build off of.
It's an interesting side note to the story that would get some press imo.
Jordu said:
The language in the Edes piece is a little more careful than that: "Dombrowski is not in the running for a position in Boston." Well of course not; neither is anybody else, since there are currently no open positions in Boston. To say anything else would be to throw Cherington and perhaps Kennedy (depending on what kind of position Dombrowski would land in here) under the bus prematurely. There's nothing in that report to suggest that the Sox are not interested in Dombrowski--nor, of course, to indicate that they are.
Savin Hillbilly said:
The role of CEO/President of Baseball Operations is going to be vacant at the end of the season. President of Business Operations, Sam Kennedy, will not be affected at all by filling that open role. A new CEO/Baseball Ops head would almost assuredly wipe out the existing staff to bring in "his own guy".
Please, let them be interested in Dombrowski. The alternative - giving Werner the job - should terrify all of us.
soxfan121 said:
Yes, indeed.
The idea of Werner making the decisions about not only about the composition of the team, but also about what strategic aims to implement in coaching the players at all levels, about the final say on drafting and developing players, and about what analytic models should be employed in decision making (and why), leaves me cold and shivering.
However, I remain hopeful. Dombrowski leaving Detroit seems as completely unrelated to Luchhino stepping down, as J.D. Drew opting out with the Dodgers seemed completely unrelated to the Sox widening the hole in RF left by Trot Nixon.
Is there any reason that they would wait till the end of the season to announce Ben is going to take the baseball ops part of LL's job? Or is the fact that they didn't didn't do that pretty much a guarantee that he's a dead man walking with the organization?
Kilgore A. Trout said:
I'd imagine it's because LL is still employed with the team until the end of the season.
Kilgore A. Trout said:
Dead Man Walking.
The Sox released enough information that we got an extensive write up on how the organization has deliberately succession planned in order to appoint Kennedy President, with no real baseball operations responsibilities, after Lucchino steps down. He stays, with a promotion.
The Sox released enough information that we got a throwaway line on how Werner has "interest" in taking on the new CEO's baseball operations responsibilities, after Luchhino steps down. That suggests he wasn't part of the succession planning but stays in his current role, because if he were part of the succession planning for baseball operations, the Sox would likely have released that information when they talked up Kennedy's promotion.
The Sox released no information about Cherington at all, pertaining to succession planning. He gone.
Now, it's possible that the team retains Farrell in a FO role, but every indication from that article suggests the new CEO will be an outside hire given the opportunity to choose his own staff.
I think it is sometimes possible to foresee the future of baseball front offices by reading the entrails of sacrificed bullpen pitchers.
That's pretty much what I was thinking. But I wasn't sure if there was some logistical reason they would want to wait till the offseason to announce who was taking over that part of LL's job even though Kennedy was announced for the other part. Even if it was going to be someone from inside the org like Cherington.Buzzkill Pauley said:
May Arliss Howard finally get Brad Pitt on board this time.
Kilgore A. Trout said:
To save face for LL, because otherwise the optics are that LL is being fired in favor of his subordinate Cherington in the midst of a shitty season. (Not to mention that LL hasn't stepped down yet.)
Not that I believe this, but that would be a reason to delay the announcement of Cherington's succession to CEO.
tomdeplonty said:
(I'd add that you might even go through the motions of a search, with Cherington the favored candidate at the outset. But I don't think this is a likely scenario; more likely he's gone soon after a new CEO is hired. If he is the author of the last two years to any substantial degree - are you really thinking of promoting him right now?)
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/628995471109959681
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/628995872072839169
Joel Sherman: Just off phone with Dombrowski. Few observations: Says not naive, knew operating without pact and this day was potentially coming. Dombrowski said nothing lined up for new job, but does want to continue to work in day-to-day operations of team.
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/628995872072839169
Joel Sherman: Just off phone with Dombrowski. Few observations: Says not naive, knew operating without pact and this day was potentially coming. Dombrowski said nothing lined up for new job, but does want to continue to work in day-to-day operations of team.
I wish the Red Sox could hire him--not as president or GM but as Allard Baird's replacement. It would be a massive demotion, obviously, but he would be fantastic in that job. Plus, Allard Baird would get fired.
Billy Beane has done many amazing things during his tenure in Oakland. One of the most impressive is this year's pitching staff. Some of the pitchers that he got via trade and free agency, I didn't think would be very good (what do I know?), but ALL FIVE have been better than EVERY current Red Sox rotation member.
Bassitt 2.64 ERA ?!
Hahn 3.35 ERA
Graveman 3.84 ERA ?!
Chavez 3.88 ERA ?!
Pomeranz 3.99 ERA
Even Aaron Brooks looked good in his 1st start with the A's. And one need only look at Beane's stellar bullpen history to see that he is head & shoulders above Cherington as a GM. We have the money, it's time to pry him loose.
Bassitt 2.64 ERA ?!
Hahn 3.35 ERA
Graveman 3.84 ERA ?!
Chavez 3.88 ERA ?!
Pomeranz 3.99 ERA
Even Aaron Brooks looked good in his 1st start with the A's. And one need only look at Beane's stellar bullpen history to see that he is head & shoulders above Cherington as a GM. We have the money, it's time to pry him loose.
Hee Sox Choi said:
Not to quibble too much (it's impossible to defend the 2015 Sox rotation), but the A's do play in a pitcher-friendly park, so if you use ERA+, Rodriguez and Miley are closer. (not to mention Buchholz). The A's also play 9/10 road games at both Anaheim and Seattle.
But the success in bringing in starters should go to the A's talent evaluators, which is surprising, since, last I heard, the Sox spent way more on scouting than the A's.
This is consistent with the "blame Baird" theme.WenZink said:
Do we not think that GMs have a big role in hiring/firing scouts and, most importantly, questioning their assumptions, guiding their thinking and, ultimately, interpreting their feedback to make the final decisions?
It seems like such a copout to give Cherington a pass (or Beane less credit) by attributing too much to the scouts. It's a GM's job to judge his scouts and be an ultimate decision maker.
We, or at least I, do so think. By calling for the head of Baird, I do not suggest the Cherington be spared. He has the final call, that is based in large part on information given to him by Baird. If Baird is doing a poor job with his evaluations, as he is, Cherington is paid to discern that.twibnotes said:
In sum Cherington should go for two reasons. First, keeping Baird around and relying on him. Two, showing his own poor judgment, when evaluating talent - except for the year he caught lightning in a bottle in 2013. As we all know, or should know, many factors contributed to the success of that team, some key ones having nothing to do with talent.
One reason why Baird should go first-- his suck extends well back before Cherington. He spent months following Carl Crawford, before recommending that the Red Sox give him a huge 7-year deal, and was a key voice when Theo was doing things like giving multiple-year contracts to washed up guys like Mike Cameron and Bobby Jenks.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 2m2 minutes ago
Dave Dombrowski likely would join any club as high-tiered executive, and oversee, not necessarily replace, the GM
Dave Dombrowski likely would join any club as high-tiered executive, and oversee, not necessarily replace, the GM
Doctor G said:
His reign in Arizona was pretty disastrous.
EDIT: Someone will inevitably ask what I mean, so here are a few links to get people started.
http://insidethezona.com/2014/04/diamondbacks/
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/arizona-diamondbacks-kevin-towers-kirk-gibson/
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/9/23/6830419/kevin-towers-tenure-in-arizona-four-years-of-poor-trades
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/9/5/6110107/kevin-towers-firing-diamondbacks-tony-la-russa
http://www.chadmoriyama.com/2013/10/d-backs-gm-kevin-towers-says-team-needs-to-hit-more-batters-calls-kirk-gibson-soft-throws-tantrum/
And I haven't even found the specific article I was looking for yet, will update later.
SECOND EDIT: Found it. Essentially, whatever pitching program was in place in Arizona had some atrocious results. Attribute that to bad luck or someone other than him all you want, but...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/07/23/why-do-pitchers-regress-with-the-diamondbacks/13048371/
Above, we were discussing the Cards rotation. ALL FIVE starters now have ERAs under 3.00. Four came up through their system and the fifth is John Lackey.
Hee Sox Choi said:
And if anyone wonders why I started banging the drum for Michael Girsch to take over for Cherington, this is the biggest reason why.
Why ? Do the RedSox need to hack into other teams proprietary databases? I wouldn't touch any Cardinal exec with the proverbial ten foot pole.Buzzkill Pauley said:
