McAdam: “Full Throttle” may mean business as usual

[Red(s)HawksFan]

A lot of the frustration is we are 6 weeks from Spring Training and haven’t done a damn thing. MLB free agency really sucks.

Can't really argue with the timing thing as typically, nearly all the big pieces are off the free agent board by Christmas. Usually it's the winter meetings that really break any logjams there might be. But that just hasn't been the case this winter. Just to emphasize how sluggish this market is moving, using MLB.com's top free agent lists from 2022 and 2023, I counted how many of the top 20 free agents were still left unsigned as of Christmas Day.

Last winter, 90% of the top 20 were signed by Christmas. The only two that remained unsigned were Carlos Correa and Nate Eovaldi. Eovaldi signed on December 28. Correa, of course, had all kinds of issues before finally closing the deal with the Twins on January 11, 2023.

Thus far this winter, only 30% of the top 20 has been signed, meaning 14 of the top 20 remain available. That's a huge difference. The only ones in the top 20 signed are Ohtani, Yamamoto, Nola, Gray, Rodriguez, and Lee.

So it's not really just that the Red Sox "haven't done a damn thing." Hardly anyone has done a damn thing. This winter has been the Dodgers, the Giants (Lee), the DBacks (ERod), the Cards (Gray + 2 other SPs), and a whole lot of nothing. It's frustrating but the important thing is that it's not too late. There's still plenty to come before spring training starts. It sucks to have to be patient, but what choice do we have?

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'm not talking about "a lot of rich guys;" I'm talking about Henry and Werner, and we don't need to speculate on their motives, we can just look at how they've run the team for the past 20 years. I'm having a hard time concluding from an offseason that isn't over yet that somehow they've decided that winning is a secondary concern.

I don't think they have run the team the same way over the full 20 years. There was a very hard push to get the titles early, then another hard push with Dombrowski, since then there has been some indications that they didn't want to be top of the market spenders long term, talk about borrowing the TB model, etc. Probably in part driven by the change in spending by some other top teams and the league tightening some loopholes they used to get a lot of bang out of their financial advantages in the International market.

 

[astrozombie]

You have to selectively ignore so much information to arrive here.

Nah. The pro-bloomers have been saying this stuff for years. Bloom was building a monster (look at Mayer! Whitlock!) While maintaining all kinds of financial flexibility to absolutely crush the market. YY was a given. Ownership was champing at the bit to get under the tax to go berserk. I didnt see it and was disappointed when I perceived this being the case years ago. Seems like some are just catching on.

 

[jbupstate]

Full throttle = Business as Usual

Sounds stupid and delivered to get more unhappiness from permanently disgruntled fans. Who would say that? Why would anyone connected to the Sox say that?

Top half free agents still on the board and time to react if they don’t have anyone to spend on. But hey… let’s continue to think FSG wants (and has always wanted) to just cash in.

 

[YTF]

Nah. The pro-bloomers have been saying this stuff for years. Bloom was building a monster (look at Mayer! Whitlock!) While maintaining all kinds of financial flexibility to absolutely crush the market. YY was a given. Ownership was champing at the bit to get under the tax to go berserk. I didnt see it and was disappointed when I perceived this being the case years ago. Seems like some are just catching on.

Yep these are definitely the words we were all using in those years that you weren't here.

 

[astrozombie]

Yep these are definitely the words we were all using in those years that you weren't here.

I mean, the sentiment's the same. Pick your semantics.

 

[jbupstate]

I mean, the sentiment's the same. Pick your semantics.

Maybe add a little value and show us your plan?

 

[astrozombie]

Maybe add a little value and show us your plan?

How does that add value? Im just a fan. Plus you guys are clearly happy with the state of the team and ownership so what's the point?

 

[twibnotes]

It’s pretty apparent, to me at least, that Lucchino was most likely the aggressor of the group and that is sorely missing.

I actually completely disagree with the public comment idea. John Henry and Tom Werner absolutely suck at public statements. It’s horrible. They should never speak.

I like Kennedy too and find him to be a respectable voice of ownership.

What lacking, in my opinion, isn’t statements or communication in general, it’s urgency.

lucchino is very underrated imo - he played a critical role in getting the Sox over the hump and is missed

 

[YTF]

I mean, the sentiment's the same. Pick your semantics.

Optimism and acceptance of the need to replenish the farm, yep. Tough decisions in order to get the club in a position of financial flexibility, OK. I think he made big strides in the former and did OK, but could have done better with the latter. If he had the reported opportunity to move Sale at the trade deadline and didn't pull the trigger, that's a huge missed opportunity. Some of the criticism for the lack of deadline deals is fair, some of it wasn't. Much of this depends on if you thought the team should be buyers, sellers or both. Was Bloom gun shy at times? Hesitant? Indecisive? Stubborn? Asking too much? All of the above? Some of the above? None of the above? Many of us who were optimistic when Bloom came aboard were anxious to see what a new perspective might bring. We wanted to see if the successes in Tampa might translate in Boston. The end result IMO...Fell short of expectations and as much as I hate that the team wasn't real active over the past two trade deadlines, I also looked at the roster and could easily see that certain deals weren't going to be made because guys on the IL were coming back. Not so much as the "calvary" that was going to come back and save the season, but as players who were going to require a slot on the roster when they became activated. As useless as some guys were to you when they were on the IL, exactly what were you going to do when they came back? They're going to be rostered, so now what do you do with the guys that you moved prospects for? That wasn't always the case and in some instances players were moved to help add depth at the minor league level. Vasquez for Valdez and Abreau is one example. There are also times when guys might have been moved to get below the tax threshold. Did Bloom fail there? Probably. I think a lot of us who largely supported Bloom would often point out that somethings aren't as cut and dried as we might like them to be and sometimes countered Bloom criticism with phrases like "we don't know what we don't know" when we tried to make sense of what was happening. Terms like "Bloomers" project the idea that supporters would blindly follow and support whatever Bloom presented and that wasn't the case.

 

[jbupstate]

How does that add value? Im just a fan. Plus you guys are clearly happy with the state of the team and ownership so what's the point?

You’re throwing shade at Bloom supporters. Put something out there you would like to see that makes last year’s 78 win team better. Make an attempt to offer an opinion that makes sense.

 

[astrozombie]

Optimism and acceptance of the need to replenish the farm, yep. Tough decisions in order to get the club in a position of financial flexibility, OK. I think he made big strides in the former and did OK, but could have done better with the latter. If he had the reported opportunity to move Sale at the trade deadline and didn't pull the trigger, that's a huge missed opportunity. Some of the criticism for the lack of deadline deals is fair, some of it wasn't. Much of this depends on if you thought the team should be buyers, sellers or both. Was Bloom gun shy at times? Hesitant? Indecisive? Stubborn? Asking too much? All of the above? Some of the above? None of the above? Many of us who were optimistic when Bloom came aboard were anxious to see what a new perspective might bring. We wanted to see if the successes in Tampa might translate in Boston. The end result IMO...Fell short of expectations and as much as I hate that the team wasn't real active over the past two trade deadlines, I also looked at the roster and could easily see that certain deals weren't going to be made because guys on the IL were coming back. Not so much as the "calvary" that was going to come back and save the season, but as players who were going to require a slot on the roster when they became activated. As useless as some guys were to you when they were on the IL, exactly what were you going to do when they came back? They're going to be rostered, so now what do you do with the guys that you moved prospects for? That wasn't always the case and in some instances players were moved to help add depth at the minor league level. Vasquez for Valdez and Abreau is one example. There are also times when guys might have been moved to get below the tax threshold. Did Bloom fail there? Probably. I think a lot of us who largely supported Bloom would often point out that somethings aren't as cut and dried as we might like them to be and sometimes countered Bloom criticism with phrases like "we don't know what we don't know" when we tried to make sense of what was happening. Terms like "Bloomers" project the idea that supporters would blindly follow and support whatever Bloom presented and that wasn't the case.

First off, I appreciate your thoughtful response. Tbh I was initially on board with the Bloom hire too, but mostly because TB churned out pitchers and that was something I wanted to see the Sox do. People are always looking for pitching and having it, either to use or trade, is extremely valuable. In my eyes, Bloom fell short here. If you replaced mayer, Anthony and raefella with whatever their pitching comps would be (and however you define that) I would probably still be on board. Furthermore, it seems to me that ownership made a decision to go cheap and Bloom was part of that. He was hired to cut costs and bring that Tampa system to Boston. It didn't work. My frustration comes from multiple seasons of not being able to question ownerships commitment to winning and by extension Bloom. Personally, I think Bloom was absolutely hamstrung by ownership, but wasnt great on top of that. But a number of posters here are insistent that no, I'm wrong and that ownership wants to win a lot and Bloom was the guy and I'm wrong for even questioning that, followed by a list of reasons why Bloom was in fact good or why his shortcomings were someone else's fault. Or, the tried and true "well you tell us the perfect plan", as if I'm not allowed to criticize something I don't like because I can't make it better with my skill set.

 

[astrozombie]

You’re throwing shade at Bloom supporters. Put something out there you would like to see that makes last year’s 78 win team better. Make an attempt to offer an opinion that makes sense.

Why should they be offended? You think Bloom was great, his record speaks for itself, right? And the "what would you do different?" Game is pointless. I could say anything and you could shoot it down as non plausible and there's no accountability one way or another.

 

[kazuneko]

Maybe I missed it, but none of you ever seems to mention Imanaga anymore. Isn't he a free agent? Is he expected to cost too much? From what I read a while back, Brez is interested in him.

I’ve said it before but I think it’s important to reiterate, I really think Imanaga is one of the riskiest free agents available. Sure, he’ll be cheaper than Montgomery but he won’t be cheap and he’s got the the worst HR/9 innings ever for an elite Japanese pitcher attempting to transition to America. That’s important because it happens to be the stat most significantly impacted by that transition. Typically Japanese pitchers see that number double, sometimes even triple.
Anyway, he’s a fascinating pitcher because he otherwise is super intriguing but he looks like a guy who is going to get pummeled stateside.

 

[BringBackMo]

I’ve said it before but I think it’s important to reiterate, I really think Imanaga is one of the riskiest free agents available. Sure, he’ll be cheaper than Montgomery but he won’t be cheap and he’s got the the worst HR/9 innings ever for an elite Japanese pitcher attempting to transition to America. That’s important because it happens to be the stat most significantly impacted by that transition. Typically Japanese pitchers see that number double, sometimes even triple.
Anyway, he’s a fascinating pitcher because he otherwise is super intriguing but he looks like a guy who is going to get pummeled stateside.

Thanks for this. This is quite interesting. You make a strong case that seeing the HR rate double or triple is the typical result after coming stateside. Are there any Japanese pitchers that managed to maintain their Japanese HR rate while pitching here…or even reduce it? Definitely something it would be good to know in figuring out whether we truly want this guy.

 

[grepal]

I don’t know if this constitutes a ”rumor” but McAdam had a really sobering piece on MassLive this morning. If McAdam isn’t main board worthy, forgive me. I’ve always found him reasonable and well sourced.

He - paraphrased - that Montgomery (or one has to assume Snell) don’t fit into the budgetary plans of the Red Sox.



When you couple that with the “serious interest” in Paxton, it really seems like even someone like Stroman, Imanaga or Giolito is a pipe dream.

Compound that with Breslow saying the team was hoping to trade for a pitcher and the only real pieces of value with which to acquire said pitchers are Bello, Casas, Anthony, Teel and Mayer, it’s looking pretty bleak pretty quickly.

I desperately wanted to believe things were going to be different with a new CoBO, but it seems like we’re destined for rotations of Bello, Crawford, Houck, and future versions of Pivetta and current (and future) one year deals to pieces like 35 year old Sale and 35 year old Paxton for at minimum the next 4 to 5 years since the minor league pitching system is so barren that Breslow effectively needs to build that from scratch.

Which - I’m not saying can’t work for the occasional regular season and playoff round - but means the era of winning titles is over until that mindset - for whatever reason, changes dramatically. On to hoping Breslow can build a pitching pipeline and the Sox can start contending for the World Series again some time in the 2028-2032 time frame.


Thanks McAdam, I thought the coal in the stocking was supposed to be tomorrow morning.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/12/some-things-i-think-i-think-on-facing-facts-about-the-red-sox-and-more.html

Appears sox have the throttle set on full alright, only on full reverse. SOSH fans may Ned to boycott Fenway and not watch NESN fora couple of seasons so Henry starts losing money to force changes. I do not care to listen to another lie from this front office. Good will gone.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Thanks for this. This is quite interesting. You make a strong case that seeing the HR rate double or triple is the typical result after coming stateside. Are there any Japanese pitchers that managed to maintain their Japanese HR rate while pitching here…or even reduce it? Definitely something it would be good to know in figuring out whether we truly want this guy.

Several people have posted the high number of fastballs he throws. There certainly is one school of thought that if the Sox go hard after him that they believe that a change in pitch mix would have a very positive impact on results in the U.S.

 

[brandonchristensen]

I think I’ll finally crack open that Pessimism wine bottle.

 

[GB5]

This is not a cheap ownership group. Their payroll was over 220 million last year. Plenty and plenty of payroll to build a winner. Spend it better, not necessarily more.

 

[grepal]

FSG owns the Sox and can do with them as they please. If they choose the path of not competing with Steve Cohen and the Dodgers for free agents, the only thing fans can do in response is spend their money on other forms of entertainment. Maybe that will move the needle but I suspect the Red Sox owners have a very good handle on how competitive they actually need to be to keep revenues growing - its probably not as much as we'd like.

Sports owners don't owe the fans anything but these people won multiple world series, starting with the one many of us thought we'd never see. I am entirely comfortable showing gratitude for that while acknowledging that it could be as far as this ownership group is willing to go to pursue championships. That doesn't mean they won't win another but given what we've seen of their interest in paying top tier talent, they aren't going to do so by signing a bunch of big name FAs to try and get them over the top.

If fans stop going/watching, en masse we yield some power. I see no reason to line a billionaires pocket when the product he puts out irritates me more than entertains me. If I told my owner sure I have had three horrible years in the last four and next year looks lousy too, but I was number one 8 years ago so stick with me. There is a chance I may be ok someday fo you think I would have a pay check. If you do, please let me know where you work so I can apply, bust my butt for a couple of years then coast until I die.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

If fans stop going/watching, en masse we yield some power. I see no reason to line a billionaires pocket when the product he puts out irritates me more than entertains me. If I told my owner sure I have had three horrible years in the last four and next year looks lousy too, but I was number one 8 years ago so stick with me. There is a chance I may be ok someday fo you think I would have a pay check. If you do, please let me know where you work so I can apply, bust my butt for a couple of years then coast until I die.

I am all for voting with your dollars elsewhere if this team does not give you joy anymore.

The thing is I will still pay some attention even if they are just scrappy. Maybe that's me but they are my team so I will always follow them. Point is that I think ownership's current calculus is that fans will not quit en masse, especially if they can patch together something around Devers & the kids. Maybe this is wrong but it feels like that's been the strategy since the Betts trade.

By the way, we know nothing of any of the backstories around the Ohtani and YY deals - the take popular here that Boston never had a chance for either feels right. The bigger issue again is that they are never in on any of these players - and let their own go. By now most everyone understands that teams bear the risk of paying peak value for rapidly declining production when signing a FA. The market has shifted and teams aren't just taking this exposure but investing heavily in it. Unfortunately that does not include the Sox.

 

[kazuneko]

Thanks for this. This is quite interesting. You make a strong case that seeing the HR rate double or triple is the typical result after coming stateside. Are there any Japanese pitchers that managed to maintain their Japanese HR rate while pitching here…or even reduce it? Definitely something it would be good to know in figuring out whether we truly want this guy.

I'd be shocked if anyone reduced their HR9. After all, power production is arguably the biggest single difference between the two leagues. Let’s remember, Kensuke Kondoh led the Pacific League in HRs last year with 26.. In terms of pitchers that have come closest to bucking this trend the best I’ve found, interestingly, are the Sox’s two most prominent Japanese starters: Daisuke Matsuzaka (only a 43% increase in HR9) and Hideo Nomo (a 57% increase).
Of course, those are both fairly old examples and all the more recent Japanese imports have seen far greater increases, with the ones that have been most successful having had minuscule NPB HR/9 rates before they transitioned to the Majors. The best ever from this perspective (and it partially explains why so few are worried about his transition) is Yoshinobu Yamamoto , who gave up an astonishing .1 HRs per 9 innings in his NPB career.
So yeah, if it was a different era and you could take on a player like Imanaga for a one year deal at limited money then he'd be an interesting project. But he currently looks like a guy who is going to get paid like a star to put up similar numbers to Lance Lynn circa 2023 (2.16 HR9/ 5.73 ERA) .

 

[Devizier]

Thanks for this. This is quite interesting. You make a strong case that seeing the HR rate double or triple is the typical result after coming stateside. Are there any Japanese pitchers that managed to maintain their Japanese HR rate while pitching here…or even reduce it? Definitely something it would be good to know in figuring out whether we truly want this guy.

Hideo Nomo for his first two years in MLB: 0.7 and 0.9 HR/9, matching his JPPL rates. He’s a pretty special case, though.

 

[BigSoxFan]

This is not a cheap ownership group. Their payroll was over 220 million last year. Plenty and plenty of payroll to build a winner. Spend it better, not necessarily more.

I’d rather they do both. This board gets caught up on labels too much but this ownership group clearly isn’t stretching like they can. Maybe that changes at some point.

For now, I remain curious at what the rest of the offseason will yield. Should tell us a lot.

 

[iddoc]

First off, I appreciate your thoughtful response. Tbh I was initially on board with the Bloom hire too, but mostly because TB churned out pitchers and that was something I wanted to see the Sox do. People are always looking for pitching and having it, either to use or trade, is extremely valuable. In my eyes, Bloom fell short here. If you replaced mayer, Anthony and raefella with whatever their pitching comps would be (and however you define that) I would probably still be on board. Furthermore, it seems to me that ownership made a decision to go cheap and Bloom was part of that. He was hired to cut costs and bring that Tampa system to Boston. It didn't work. My frustration comes from multiple seasons of not being able to question ownerships commitment to winning and by extension Bloom. Personally, I think Bloom was absolutely hamstrung by ownership, but wasnt great on top of that. But a number of posters here are insistent that no, I'm wrong and that ownership wants to win a lot and Bloom was the guy and I'm wrong for even questioning that, followed by a list of reasons why Bloom was in fact good or why his shortcomings were someone else's fault. Or, the tried and true "well you tell us the perfect plan", as if I'm not allowed to criticize something I don't like because I can't make it better with my skill set.

I know this has been debated ad nauseum, but Bloom’s tenure wasn’t long enough to turn the farm system into a pitching pipeline starting from near zero, especially given the lost 2020 minor league season and truncated draft. Yes, some teams were able to bring successful pitchers to the majors within that timeframe, but Bloom had to build a development infrastructure too (and that is what an organization with deep pockets should invest in; no luxury tax implications!).

I suspect the ownership group has sought to stay the course re: the principles of their approach, but lost confidence in Bloom’s executive moxy, especially compared to that of his immediate predecessor.

 

[pk1627]

How about it was 100% accurate but reflective of how delusional the powers that be at Fenway were/are about the team and the market for talent? Your derision of McAdam seems totally misplaced.

Being an older person, I have great affinity for the talents that come with age. The older media types seem to do one of two things:
1. Bring a sense of history into their work and enrich the experience. Castig is a master at this. Gammons. Ryan.
2. Play the provincial card. “This outsider isn’t one of us.” Henry has been labeled as a carpetbagger even as he brought championships and improved the Kenmore area.

I’m disappointed that McAdam (a good Chelmsford guy) is taking this route.

 

[astrozombie]

I know this has been debated ad nauseum, but Bloom’s tenure wasn’t long enough to turn the farm system into a pitching pipeline starting from near zero, especially given the lost 2020 minor league season and truncated draft. Yes, some teams were able to bring successful pitchers to the majors within that timeframe, but Bloom had to build a development infrastructure too (and that is what an organization with deep pockets should invest in; no luxury tax implications!).

I suspect the ownership group has sought to stay the course re: the principles of their approach, but lost confidence in Bloom’s executive moxy, especially compared to that of his immediate predecessor.

What do you mean they lost confidence in his executive moxie? If he was doing a good job building this pipeline from scratch and that was in line with ownership's approach, why can him? I don't understand the phrase "losing executive moxie".

 

[snowmanny]

I’m sure you understand the sentiment, if not the exact phrasing.

Ownership appreciated some of his accomplishments and approved of some of his moves, but came to doubt his ability to move the team forward from here.

 

[IpswichSox]

I’m disappointed that McAdam (a good Chelmsford guy) is taking this route.

I’m not totally following you — are you saying McAdam was being click-baity? I didn't read that in his piece. To me, it was more of an op-ed than a news story, and the background source was the only one cited. I trust McAdam that the source’s sentiment represented enough of McAdam’s own and/or industry perception to include it without a counterpoint. I’m sure he is attuned to the importance of reader engagement. But to me McAdam is among the most sober and least click-baity baseball reporters out there. He’s like the anti-CHB or anti-talk radio hot take.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I’m not totally following you — are you saying McAdam was being click-baity? I didn't read that in his piece. To me, it was more of an op-ed than a news story, and the background source was the only one cited. I trust McAdam that the source’s sentiment represented enough of McAdam’s own and/or industry perception to include it without a counterpoint. I’m sure he is attuned to the importance of reader engagement. But to me McAdam is among the most sober and least click-baity baseball reporters out there. He’s like the anti-CHB or anti-talk radio hot take.

Yeah, he noted that an industry source told him something, something that tied into what he and many people were thinking and he wrote his opinion about it. That's not a hot take or clickbait, it's literally his job to provide his opinion on the team based on the information he receives which is more than the average fan.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Yeah, he noted that an industry source told him something, something that tied into what he and many people were thinking and he wrote his opinion about it. That's not a hot take or clickbait, it's literally his job to provide his opinion on the team based on the information he receives which is more than the average fan.

Alex Speier corroborated the sentiment within 24 hours of the article.

It appears to be nothing but legit. McAdam doesn’t deserve blowback on this.

 

[astrozombie]

I’m sure you understand the sentiment, if not the exact phrasing.

Ownership appreciated some of his accomplishments and approved of some of his moves, but came to doubt his ability to move the team forward from here.

Actually I don't, which is why I asked. What caused them to doubt his ability to move the team forward from here?

 

[grepal]

I mean, sure. Or as you write ten minutes later.



This is the context any of us has. The understanding that Montgomery’s contract will be larger than expected after YY’s signing is the common ground basis for his column. It’s impossible to get mad about the assertion that “the Sox won’t spend at the top of the market” — as McAdam expects us to do here — without accepting this premise.

My real take on McAdam is that he’s bounced around long enough now to know that what drives engagement and keeps him employed in this era are the stories that make people angry. That or his editors do.

More broadly, boy has the tenor changed. Back in 2015-16 or so it felt to me pretty widely accepted that overbidding for free agents on the downside of their careers was a terrible way to build a team. I definitely think management should spend, and big — there’s no reason not to be in the top 5 in payroll on the 2/3 of years we aren’t resetting the tax. Is Montgomery that guy? Ehh. What if it’s true that Snell wants to stay on the West Coast (as reported) and Montgomery, from South Carolina, doesn’t want to be in Boston either? These seem like extremely plausible scenarios to me, and would collapse McAdam’s argument, but they aren’t questions he bothers to ask. Instead, he pushes this other narrative. I think that’s bad reporting.

I’d feel some measure of both relief and annoyance if we signed the very good Jordan Montgomery for the top of the market price of 7/$175. But McAdam’s framework is that all Sox fans should feel upset, almost betrayed, if that doesn’t happen, no matter the reason. That’s ridiculous.

Nothing changes the truth that the Sox need two very good starters a second baseman and some right handed hitting thump to even have a prayer at competing this year. Could Bleis be the second baseman. We really need strong defense up the middle as third base looks like a black hole for the foreseeable future and first base defense has a lot of room to improve, however it is not near Dr. StrangeGlove bad. (Dick Stuart for our younger fans) For the record I wanted Yamamoto but it became very obvious before he signed that Boston was not his choice. I had an ironic chuckle when I read the Sox believed they were still in it. Either they were lying to themselves or to us. Sox may as well see if they need to blow this thing up if they don't see a path to compete in 3 or four years. Trade Devers. See what Sale and our relievers fetch at the AS break. If there is no way we are competitive again build around Bello, Casas and the kids while trading for more kids. Would not hurt to bring prices down in line with results.

 

[RS2004foreever]

A classic Boston Sports Media piece: an article based on ONE QUOTE from somewhat outside the organization.
It's a made-up story.
If the Red Sox do nothing in the next 6 weeks there will be a legitimate story.
As we say in court - it assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[simplicio]

Actually I don't, which is why I asked. What caused them to doubt his ability to move the team forward from here?

There was widespread reporting around his firing that he had an industry reputation among other execs and agents of being difficult to work with, being too particular/demanding about transactions and not getting them done as a result.

 

[moondog80]

I don't get the fuss.

Not signing Snell/Montgomery would not qualify as a big deal.

Not signing either of them AND ALSO not signing any of Stroman/Imanaga/Giloito AND ALSO not trading for anyone of a similar ilk would be a big deal. I'll ponder that if/when it happens.

 

[astrozombie]

There was widespread reporting around his firing that he had an industry reputation among other execs and agents of being difficult to work with, being too particular/demanding about transactions and not getting them done as a result.

And that was only true recently? Or was he always difficult to work with?

 

[jbupstate]

A classic Boston Sports Media piece: an article based on ONE QUOTE from somewhat outside the organization.
It's a made-up story.
If the Red Sox do nothing in the next 6 weeks there will be a legitimate story.
As we say in court - it assumes facts not in evidence.

Bingo. It’s currently bullshit but might be on point if nothing happens.

 

[iddoc]

Actually I don't, which is why I asked. What caused them to doubt his ability to move the team forward from here?

The last two trade deadlines, perhaps? Winding up with Kluber instead of Eovaldi? Not paying a bit more to get Effin? Whether or not such criticism is fair or not is another question that has been debated quite robustly and ably in these pages.

 

[snowmanny]

And that was only true recently? Or was he always difficult to work with?

The previous two guys lasted 4 years each even though they each won a World Series. He won a playoff series and finished last two years in a row. I thought they’d give him another half-season but this is how they roll. They cut bait and move on. Not really that big a deal.

 

[chawson]

Alex Speier corroborated the sentiment within 24 hours of the article.

It appears to be nothing but legit. McAdam doesn’t deserve blowback on this.

I’m not really sure what you mean here. Corroborated the sentiment that a big chunk of the fan base is restless and frustrated, often to the point of irrationality? Sure, but that’s not exactly reporting.

Speier did not corroborate that the Red Sox have a new official policy to reduce payroll. He added some useful context about where the Sox rank in relative spending, but the variable there is that the Mets, Rangers, Phillies, Padres, Yankees, Dodgers and other teams have — for various reasons — dramatically, suddenly, emphatically ramped up their spending, and that’s out of the Sox control. Should they spend more? Yes. And they’re saying they will, so I’m going to wait. But there’s a difference between lowering a flag and lengthening a flagpole, and reporters and fans alike sometimes gloss over full picture in their haste to join the pile on.

Reporters have to file stories whether or not there’s news. If there’s nothing substantive to report and no one is talking, the subject of the story is the affect of frustration and anger, which these days is readily documented, therefore “sourced,” online.

I do not envy some of these reporters, trying to hit deadlines with very little to work with and a FO that doesn’t leak. For some of those who have been around long enough to report on other ones, I wouldn’t be surprised if their frustration with this FO’s no-leak policy makes them more apt to frame them critically.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Bingo. It’s currently bullshit but might be on point if nothing happens.

Alex Speier might be the biggest non bullshit reporter in the Boston market and he reported it seems like Boston’s pursuit of Snell and Montgomery is slight.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t going to spend. But it is noteworthy coming from someone like Speier.

 

[chrisfont9]

There’s a contingent of posters who think that anything perceived as negative about the team, no matter the writer, is some devious plan to get clicks or something. I guess they got Speier and McAdam now too.

Not sure if you mean me but my problem is that he doesn't seem to be citing any sources with knowledge, probably because actual information is on lockdown. The report may turn out to be right, but I'll wait until there is more than "industry sources" or the writer just putting his hunches out there. That is the definition of clickbait.

 

[tims4wins]

I know this has been debated ad nauseum, but Bloom’s tenure wasn’t long enough to turn the farm system into a pitching pipeline starting from near zero, especially given the lost 2020 minor league season and truncated draft. Yes, some teams were able to bring successful pitchers to the majors within that timeframe, but Bloom had to build a development infrastructure too (and that is what an organization with deep pockets should invest in; no luxury tax implications!).

I suspect the ownership group has sought to stay the course re: the principles of their approach, but lost confidence in Bloom’s executive moxy, especially compared to that of his immediate predecessor.

4 years still seems long enough for there to be more than literally zero pitching pipeline.

 

[jbupstate]

Alex Speier might be the biggest non bullshit reporter in the Boston market and he reported it seems like Boston’s pursuit of Snell and Montgomery is slight.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t going to spend. But it is noteworthy coming from someone like Speier.

Was referring to McAdams. But nothing is saying the Sox won’t spend. Ohtani and Yamamoto took absolutely huge deals to go to the team they probably wanted all along.

So many want the Sox to spend no matter the costs or risks. They over pay on Yoshida to get their guy and they effed up. They pay what it takes to retain Devers and they effed up. They don’t spend on Rodon or DeGrom or Verlander or Scherzer or Xander and they are cheap and not committed to building what it takes to win. Now it’s effing Eflin and Lugo being differences makers?

Overpaying for Montgomery doesn’t guarantee anything. Snell brings home a huge bag and still can’t go a consistent 5 innings over a full healthy season. Trade everything for Cease to leave in a year?

Yamamoto was a clear answer that potentially solved a lot of problems. But he didn’t want our money and that was his decision. Not much you can do about someone wanting to plan for the Dodgers.

 

[OCD SS]

By the way, we know nothing of any of the backstories around the Ohtani and YY deals - the take popular here that Boston never had a chance for either feels right. The bigger issue again is that they are never in on any of these players - and let their own go. By now most everyone understands that teams bear the risk of paying peak value for rapidly declining production when signing a FA. The market has shifted and teams aren't just taking this exposure but investing heavily in it. Unfortunately that does not include the Sox.

Ohtani, sure. I think to have a shot at YY they needed to go in on $370M/ 10 years - basically guaranteeing him the top spot in MLB's pitcher earnings by both total $ and AAV (trumping Cole's increase if he opts out). Maybe he would've taken that back to the Dodgers and they would've matched it, but that's a least a "full throttle" statement on a player with a chance to be worth it. The rest of the FA class is fairly lackluster (we knew that last year), so I don't mind seeing a different approach this year, as long as they're not giving up blue chip prospects with the chance to be foundational pieces for short term turn-over.

 

[Mike473]

Ohtani, sure. I think to have a shot at YY they needed to go in on $370M/ 10 years - basically guaranteeing him the top spot in MLB's pitcher earnings by both total $ and AAV (trumping Cole's increase if he opts out). Maybe he would've taken that back to the Dodgers and they would've matched it, but that's a least a "full throttle" statement on a player with a chance to be worth it. The rest of the FA class is fairly lackluster (we knew that last year), so I don't mind seeing a different approach this year, as long as they're not giving up blue chip prospects with the chance to be foundational pieces for short term turn-over.

It is weird, I would have laughed if someone predicted the Red Sox would make no major moves and possibly field a team weaker this year than last years group. Now, I actually believe they should go that route. It took me a while to come around, but after YY, the worst thing they could do is waste resources on players that don't move the needle or will be in their mid 30s by the time the team is good again. Go with what we have and hope to get lucky on the injury front and getting some career years here and there.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Was referring to McAdams. But nothing is saying the Sox won’t spend. Ohtani and Yamamoto took absolutely huge deals to go to the team they probably wanted all along.

So many want the Sox to spend no matter the costs or risks. They over pay on Yoshida to get their guy and they effed up. They pay what it takes to retain Devers and they effed up. They don’t spend on Rodon or DeGrom or Verlander or Scherzer or Xander and they are cheap and not committed to building what it takes to win. Now it’s effing Eflin and Lugo being differences makers?

Overpaying for Montgomery doesn’t guarantee anything. Snell brings home a huge bag and still can’t go a consistent 5 innings over a full healthy season. Trade everything for Cease to leave in a year?

Yamamoto was a clear answer that potentially solved a lot of problems. But he didn’t want our money and that was his decision. Not much you can do about someone wanting to plan for the Dodgers.

Speaking only for myself, I don't want the Sox to spend indiscriminately just to make free agency splashes. But I do want to them to pay up for elite talent like, say, Mookie Betts. Like even if Mookie wasn't taking a hometown discount, make it really hard for him to leave by offering him lots of money. Maybe that wouldn't have worked and Mookie was gone regardless but the Red Sox don't seriously play when any other elite players become available either.

FWIW, I don't care one iota about FSG's bottom line. I root for ownerships who spend on winning, even if it isn't the best economic decision. Don't just spend to spend - spend to win. FSG isn't playing in that market at present and doesn't seem inclined in that direction. For me, at least, that will inform how much time I invest into worrying about this team.

 

[BringBackMo]

Alex Speier might be the biggest non bullshit reporter in the Boston market and he reported it seems like Boston’s pursuit of Snell and Montgomery is slight.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t going to spend. But it is noteworthy coming from someone like Speier.

This is a question not a challenge. I did not Speier’s piece but saw the Twitter post that you posted. It seemed from that that Speier was reporting that people in the industry—outside the Sox organization, in other words—were expressing uncertainty about whether the Sox will continue to attempt to complete at the top of the game’s payroll rankings.

Does that correctly summarize Speier’s article? If it does, that would not seem to corroborate what McAdam wrote. He talked to a single industry executive and quoted his opinion that the Sox will not spend for free agents like Montgomery anymore. His opinion is that the Sox have resigned themselves to be a mid-market club.

Did Speier use other sources in the industry to corroborate that the Sox going forward are going to spend like a mid-market team, or did he say there was uncertainty in the industry?

Again, this is a genuine question and not a challenge.

 

[jbupstate]

Speaking only for myself, I don't want the Sox to spend indiscriminately just to make free agency splashes. But I do want to them to pay up for elite talent like, say, Mookie Betts. Like even if Mookie wasn't taking a hometown discount, make it really hard for him to leave by offering him lots of money. Maybe that wouldn't have worked and Mookie was gone regardless but the Red Sox don't seriously play when any other elite players become available either.

FWIW, I don't care one iota about FSG's bottom line. I root for ownerships who spend on winning, even if it isn't the best economic decision. Don't just spend to spend - spend to win. FSG isn't playing in that market at present and doesn't seem inclined in that direction. For me, at least, that will inform how much time I invest into worrying about this team.

Eff Mookie Betts.

What about keeping Devers?