Stitch01 said:Im definitely franchising him next year if I can't sign him to an extension, its only like a $1.5MM-$2MM hit vs. this year's figure, but he's really a guy they need to lock up for the next four years
EDIT: Pats have pretty much no big salary cap commitments for '16 and beyond besides Brady and Mayo (and I expect Mayo wont be playing '16 under his current deal). They can part ways or restructure Gronk if they want (hopefully they don't and Im not advocating it, but they aren't stuck with a big contract yet beyond '15 if Gronk gets hurt again/doesn't get back to 100%) and the next four hits (Wilfork/Amendola/Arrington/Ninkovich) aren't going to be on the team in '16 and beyond under their current contracts. Given the expected cap escalation, they can fit a McCourty deal in pretty easily IMO.
Stitch01 said:Unless Earl Thomas is involved I pretty much agree. I just want to make sure Jones is really a good pass rushing DE first and make sure he's not going to want to get paid like a great pass rushing DE if he's not one.
ivanvamp said:Priority to re-sign long-term:
1. Revis - total game-changer
2. Jones - on the cusp of greatness
3. McCourty - already a top S, but that position isn't quite as important as the other two
4. Solder - though I'm now curious about his health and performance this year
My two cents (which is probably all that this is worth….).
wutang112878 said:Ok, you convinced me that McCourty should be ahead of Solder, I forgot about the concussion risk. But you really dont have Jones over McCourty? I think Jones plays the more important position, he is more likely to take over a game and while McCourty will be 28 in the first year of his next deal, Jones will be 26 Now they are staggered a year so it may seem like they are unrelated but you still have to budget for both.
On Revis, I think we are on the same page. He's going to be 30 next year and based on the first 2 games I dont know if he can be a lock-down guy on speedy receivers at this point. Wallace certainly held his own against him even with some drops and Wallace really isnt that great. Then Bill put him on Jennings instead of Patterson. Its tough to justify giving him highest corner in the league money when he is 30+ and the scope of his lock-down work seems to be shrinking.
Regarding the guys you mention for 2016, I have to disagree on Mayo. I think his contract probably needs to be addressed but unlike Mankins they have the leverage to work something out because those savings are so high and most importantly I think he is the glue that holds that LB core together, without him I think they really struggle over the long run. I can see Amendola, Browner and Arrington being cut, and sadly I can see Wilfork being cut so there is ~$20M in savings and thats being conservative with the hits. So now $65M in commitments on a $150-160 cap is really, really good even with just 24 guys on the books.
They put him on Jennings instead of Patterson because, at this point in their careers, Jennings is a better receiver than Patterson. Patterson's a great run-after-catch talent and a dynamic athlete but he's really a gadget player right now.wutang112878 said:On Revis, I think we are on the same page. He's going to be 30 next year and based on the first 2 games I dont know if he can be a lock-down guy on speedy receivers at this point. Wallace certainly held his own against him even with some drops and Wallace really isnt that great. Then Bill put him on Jennings instead of Patterson. Its tough to justify giving him highest corner in the league money when he is 30+ and the scope of his lock-down work seems to be shrinking.
It's tough to make a list like this. Who's the best player relative to his position? I'd probably go Revis, McCourty, Solder, Jones. Whose position has the most impact? I'd probably go Jones, Solder, Revis, McCourty (though I think all four are closer than most think). Who's going to sign the most reasonable contract? Probably McCourty, Solder, Jones, Revis. Who's the most difficult to replace? Probably Revis, Jones, Solder, McCourty.ivanvamp said:Priority to re-sign long-term:
1. Revis - total game-changer
2. Jones - on the cusp of greatness
3. McCourty - already a top S, but that position isn't quite as important as the other two
4. Solder - though I'm now curious about his health and performance this year
My two cents (which is probably all that this is worth….).
I think Thomas is clearly better, but that's far from a slight at McCourty.soxfan121 said:
There's a pretty good case that McCourty is as good as Thomas right now. I think his time at CB has clouded our perceptions of him; as a safety he is either #1 or #2 and the third guy is a fair way down from that level.
Zososoxfan said:
I think the bolded is premature. I'll be interested to see how Revis looks over the course of the season before determining what type of contract he merits.
Yes, and I thought the article to start this thread did a great job illustrating that. He doesnt change the game like Revis in his prime, but he doesnt allow the Pats to run a scheme that not a lot of other players would allow them to run.I do think true free safety ability is rare. The Pats could get by with a Harmon / Chung backfield, but they'd have to do more two-safety shells because neither of them has McCourty's range. That takes a safety out of the box, weakening the run defense and / or preventing that second safety from being used as a robber, a blitzer, or a man-coverage option underneath. The shape of the defense is different with a guy like McCourty back there.
Super Nomario said:They put him on Jennings instead of Patterson because, at this point in their careers, Jennings is a better receiver than Patterson. Patterson's a great run-after-catch talent and a dynamic athlete but he's really a gadget player right now.
Stitch01 said:One possible example: I quickly looked at the all-22 this morning, so don't take this as gospel because I just picked out a few plays, but it looked like the Pats were in some two safety shells on their first drive against Minnesota and then went to more single high looks with a safety (Chung on the plays I watched) acting as an extra defender against shallow crossing routes and backs leaking out the backfield.
Just nitpicking but it seems to me like Eric Weddle is up there too. Either way- top three in the league; I'm ok with paying the man.soxfan121 said:
There's a pretty good case that McCourty is as good as Thomas right now. I think his time at CB has clouded our perceptions of him; as a safety he is either #1 or #2 and the third guy is a fair way down from that level.
soxfan121 said:FWIW, BB has said similar things about McCourty as he has said about Ed Reed. I think that's McCourty ceiling over the next two-three seasons - prime Ed Reed.
Remember, he never really played safety until the move was forced (as SN wrote about) in 2012. He's still learning the position and he's already in the conversation for best player at the position in the league.
wutang112878 said:
Reed is a bit of a stretch IMO. I forget what it was but I know he was hurt in 2005, but in 02-04 and 06-08 he had 42 picks in 96 games and he returned 5 of those 46 for TDs That prime stretch was one of the best stretches I can really remember from a FS ever in terms of both coverage of the field and turnovers. This isnt a knock on McCourty, but more of a compliment of what Reed was because I just cant see McCourty having that type of performance for the next 3 years.
soxfan121 said:Well, why not? PFF says he was the best FS in the NFL last season. The eye test says he's excellent. The pass defense numbers have drastically improved with him back there. BB says he reminds BB of Reed.
What more do you need to get really high on DMC? ;-)
Stitch01 said:Why don't I think DMC will be a first ballot Hall of Famer? Call it a hunch I guess.
Right now, I’ll cheer for Devin. I hope he has a great playoff run that ends with him winning Super Bowl MVP, especially since he’s going into free agency. My mom has a dream of us suiting up for the same team. Maybe I can pull him to Tennessee, and we can win a championship together.
Yup. Safety tag was like 8.5M in 2014, so very affordable.Ed Hillel said:Worst case, he's getting tagged I have to think. I'm not worried.
Silverdude2167 said:How about Jason finds a way to come to NE as Tennessee does not seem very close to making the playoffs let alone winning a championship.
Yeah, that article's not really a great sell. "I'm jealous of Devin being in the playoffs every year ... but maybe now that he's a FA, he'll join me on the 2-14 Titans!"Silverdude2167 said:How about Jason finds a way to come to NE as Tennessee does not seem very close to making the playoffs let alone winning a championship.
dbn said:If Jason does make it to NE, I hope they play together better than they make commercials together.
Super Nomario said:
I do think true free safety ability is rare. The Pats could get by with a Harmon / Chung backfield, but they'd have to do more two-safety shells because neither of them has McCourty's range. That takes a safety out of the box, weakening the run defense and / or preventing that second safety from being used as a robber, a blitzer, or a man-coverage option underneath. The shape of the defense is different with a guy like McCourty back there.
I think many of us agree that McCourty has been a very good player in our secondary, and that Harmon is an unknown factor in this process.soxfan121 said:FWIW, BB has said similar things about McCourty as he has said about Ed Reed. I think that's McCourty ceiling over the next two-three seasons - prime Ed Reed.
Remember, he never really played safety until the move was forced (as SN wrote about) in 2012. He's still learning the position and he's already in the conversation for best player at the position in the league.
dynomite said:I think many of us agree that McCourty has been a very good player in our secondary, and that Harmon is an unknown factor in this process.
So? Do people feel differently now that the tag is off the table?
Well, they had Logan Ryan at safety at different times this past season.Kull said:The fact that McCourty was converted from DB to Safety - is there perhaps some feeling within the organization that they can do it again with one of the DBs already on the roster? It's not like McCourty has some freakish size or speed that the others don't. Harmon is the obvious candidate, but they may have back-up plans involving a DB or two.