MLB 2020: We're Playing, but We Can't Agree on Anything

EvilEmpire

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Aren't rosters expanding due to outbreak risks and the chance that a team could lose a bunch of players at a time? Worst case, a team dealing with that scenario and then also playing an extra long extended inning fame or two in a short period of time could be disastrous in a short sprint kind of season.

I don't like the second base thing at all, but given how much of an aberration this season is, it is probably the least concerning thing I've seen. I can understand baseball wanting to control as many variables as possible for how game get played when there is already so much uncertainty they have to deal with.
 
Harry Hooper

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Ale Xander said:
Are they not having expanded rosters? What's the issue with longer games if they have expanded rosters?
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For the owners the regular season games are a necessary evil to get to the postseason moolah. Get those W's and L's compiled as briskly as possible.
 
djbayko

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keninten said:
In 1918 the second wave was worse than the first. Cases are going up now but their is alot more testing now. Deaths rates are going down, thankfully.
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There is a correlation between states that are spiking and those with careless COVID-19 policy. It’s not testing, although at least one person in this country would love to hear you say that. Death rates are a lagging indicator. The reason why should be obvious. If we see increasing positives today, we should expect increasing deaths in a couple weeks. And the current spikes haven’t even begun to plateau yet.
 
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Captaincoop

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djbayko said:
There is a correlation between states that are spiking and those with careless COVID-19 policy. It’s not testing, although at least one person in this country would love to hear you say that. Death rates are a lagging indicator. The reason why should be obvious. If we see increasing positives today, we should expect increasing deaths in a couple weeks. And the current spikes haven’t even begun to plateau yet.
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The states that opened up, mostly opened up almost two months ago now. And they have not seen huge spikes in deaths and hospitalizations. We're told every week that Florida, South Carolina, etc. are right around the corner from a huge disaster, and so far (thankfully) it simply hasn't come true. States started opening on April 30 - almost two months later, we just had a national death toll 10% of what it was at the peak in April. We'll see what happens, this virus has not been predictable, but it will not surprising if the answer is that deaths continue dropping. There's no reason right now for MLB (or the NBA or NHL or NFL) to be panicking or going back on their plans.
 
djbayko

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Captaincoop said:
The states that opened up, mostly opened up almost two months ago now. And they have not seen huge spikes in deaths and hospitalizations. We're told every week that Florida, South Carolina, etc. are right around the corner from a huge disaster, and so far (thankfully) it simply hasn't come true. States started opening on April 30 - almost two months later, we just had a national death toll 10% of what it was at the peak in April. We'll see what happens, this virus has not been predictable, but it will not surprising if the answer is that deaths continue dropping. There's no reason right now for MLB (or the NBA or NHL or NFL) to be panicking or going back on their plans.
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I agree with no need to panic. Organizations should be preparing for any outcome.

I’m not sure I’d agree that we’re far off schedule tho. Even exponential curves start off as near horizontal lines. And many people are still taking precautions, so the exponent may not be a heck of a lot greater than 1.
 
geoflin

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keninten said:
Cases are going up now but their is a lot more testing now. Deaths rates are going down, thankfully.
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I hope you're right but death rates so far have lagged behind positive cases because for people recently diagnosed it can take a few weeks for them to get sick enough to go to the hospital and eventually die.
 
jon abbey

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Also the average age of people being infected keeps dropping, so the death rates are lower (so far).
 
nattysez

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Captaincoop said:
The states that opened up, mostly opened up almost two months ago now. And they have not seen huge spikes in deaths and hospitalizations. We're told every week that Florida, South Carolina, etc. are right around the corner from a huge disaster, and so far (thankfully) it simply hasn't come true. States started opening on April 30 - almost two months later, we just had a national death toll 10% of what it was at the peak in April. We'll see what happens, this virus has not been predictable, but it will not surprising if the answer is that deaths continue dropping. There's no reason right now for MLB (or the NBA or NHL or NFL) to be panicking or going back on their plans.
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Arizona is running low on hospital beds, Texas's governor is begging people to start wearing masks, and Florida's numbers are steadily worsening. You realize that the players cannot play for 2 weeks if they get COVID, right? But if your bar is NY or Italy, I guess everything's hunky-dory -- play ball!
 
Marciano490

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Would bleeding the players this year help the owners make position with regard to the CBA next year? That is, if the middle of the road players go a year without pay, will they be more vulnerable at the time for 2021?
 
scottyno

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Marciano490 said:
Would bleeding the players this year help the owners make position with regard to the CBA next year? That is, if the middle of the road players go a year without pay, will they be more vulnerable at the time for 2021?
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We talked a bit about this last night during poker, but I wonder if ownership might need to worry that if they push too far eventually the players are going to snap and actually demand real systematic change for team controlled players. It should be in both sides best interests to get a deal and play, who cares if the other side gets a little more than you if you're both making more than you would have without a deal.
 
P'tucket rhymes with...

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Captaincoop said:
The states that opened up, mostly opened up almost two months ago now. And they have not seen huge spikes in deaths and hospitalizations. We're told every week that Florida, South Carolina, etc. are right around the corner from a huge disaster, and so far (thankfully) it simply hasn't come true. States started opening on April 30 - almost two months later, we just had a national death toll 10% of what it was at the peak in April. We'll see what happens, this virus has not been predictable, but it will not surprising if the answer is that deaths continue dropping. There's no reason right now for MLB (or the NBA or NHL or NFL) to be panicking or going back on their plans.
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Arizona's doubling time is now 12 days, and Florida's is 19. Hospitals are starting to fill up in AZ. If you're still unfamiliar with exponential growth, take a look at NY/NJ between February and May.
 
snowmanny

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jon abbey said:
5 or 6 pickoff throws to second? That sounds like a guaranteed error/advance to 3B when a throw gets into CF.
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I went to a game when I was a kid during which a pitcher came in for the Indians with the score tied, bottom of the tenth, no outs and runner on second. Tried to pick the runner off before he threw even one pitch, and the throw went into CF. Game over.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS197404210.shtml
Stupid rule. Just play the game.
 
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I myself pretty stoked for baseball even if it is a shortened season with a couple of weird rules. I still think it would have been better for the sport if they had turned this season in a World Baseball Classic like tournament. Like every team could have played every other team once and then start the tournament with the best teams.
 
DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I find it hard to get worked up about ties or funky rules when we're already in a 60 game season with the prospect that some players or even teams might not have the chance to finish.

We can pretend this is more than a glorified exhibition, but it really isn't and I don't actually care. I just hope there is baseball and they stay safe.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

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Captaincoop said:
The states that opened up, mostly opened up almost two months ago now. And they have not seen huge spikes in deaths and hospitalizations. We're told every week that Florida, South Carolina, etc. are right around the corner from a huge disaster, and so far (thankfully) it simply hasn't come true. States started opening on April 30 - almost two months later, we just had a national death toll 10% of what it was at the peak in April. We'll see what happens, this virus has not been predictable, but it will not surprising if the answer is that deaths continue dropping. There's no reason right now for MLB (or the NBA or NHL or NFL) to be panicking or going back on their plans.
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Shelterdog posted this in V&N and thought you might want to read it.

Shelterdog said:
I'm convinced there something to this, but the higher percentages in the the northeast also probably reflect the higher real prevalence of the disease. Texas's numbers do stick out though--120,000 diagnosed cases and they only report 2200 deaths. Even Florida, which has about 100,000 diagnosed cases on a roughly similar number of tests as Texas--reports over 3000 deaths. And Texas is also reporting roughly 4000 non covid, non flu pneumonia deaths. So--like with Florida--there are a lot of reasons to think that there are a couple thousand more covid deaths that the state's public reporting is obscuring.

You can get a comparison with this chart. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/flu_pneumonia_mortality/flu_pneumonia.htm So in 2018 Texas had 3516 flu or pneumonia deaths and Florida had 3091--in 2017 they had 2954 and 3057 respectively. This year they're at 7484 covid/flu/pneumonia cases (Texas) and 8345 (Florida) from February to mid June. Even without pro rating the flu and pneumonia deaths you're at about 4000 excess respitory deaths in texas and 5000 in Florida, and pro rating by half you at more like 5-6,000 in both states.

It's an appalling situation.
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DeadlySplitter

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If this season actually gets off the ground (huge if... I don't know how D-backs, Rays, Marlins are going to handle this), step 1 towards extra innings being permanently altered? gulp.
 
LeoCarrillo

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I find it hard to get worked up about ties or funky rules when we're already in a 60 game season with the prospect that some players or even teams might not have the chance to finish.

We can pretend this is more than a glorified exhibition, but it really isn't and I don't actually care. I just hope there is baseball and they stay safe.
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And that the Yankees don’t win.
 
soup17

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SoxinSeattle said:
How many games have to be played to reset the luxury tax? That really is the best thing this "season" has to offer.
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I read this little tidbit today: "Also, for numbers fans: There will be no revenue sharing this season because there is too little revenue to share. Luxury-tax rules will revert back to 2019; there is no "resetting" of the luxury tax for clubs in 2020."

Link: View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897407-baseballs-back-but-the-ugly-road-to-return-has-diminished-the-game?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial


I have asked Pete Abe if this is true and I'll report back when/if he responds.
 
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I hope this is on topic enough: I have tickets for the July 3rd and 4th games for the Sox @ Pittsburgh. The ticket office says those will be refunded once the games are "officially canceled." What kind of shenanigans are the owners using to not "officially" cancel those game? What chance do I have to see my credit?
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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kfoss99 said:
I hope this is on topic enough: I have tickets for the July 3rd and 4th games for the Sox @ Pittsburgh. The ticket office says those will be refunded once the games are "officially canceled." What kind of shenanigans are the owners using to not "officially" cancel those game? What chance do I have to see my credit?
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I assume they're not refunding tickets until the scheduled day of the game, even though the game obviously won't be played as scheduled. They probably do that with the hope that once games actually start, that maybe fans will be allowed in to watch at some point and they can cajole folks like you to transfer their tickets to another game rather than take a refund. Fat chance that will happen but they'll try to hold your money as long as they possibly can anyway.
 
sodenj5

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Soxfan in Fla said:
Manfred has been pushing that nonsense for a couple years. Might as well see it fail in a 60 game season so this bullshit can go away for good.
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Here’s the thing: baseball has to adapt. They have to change. “HAR! GET OFF MY LAWN! I want the same game that they played in 1890! It’s a perfect game!”

It isn’t. Society as a whole has changed dramatically. People don’t have the attention span for a game like baseball. The NFL is constantly tweaking the rules. The game now is much different than it was 20 years ago because they changed the rules and made offense and passing far more prevalent.

You see it as a dumb rule change. I see it as something different and would like to see how it plays out. People want to see runs, not a 12 inning, 4 hour game.
 
staz

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As much as I’d prefer to see 2020 punted so that an ironclad plan can be developed to support a full 2021 season, it will at least be interesting to see to what extent a team’s geography and collective vigilance to COVID-mitigating measures shows up in the standings. For example, Mass. currently has the lowest rate of transmission (RT) in the country. A clean clubhouse is a winning clubhouse?
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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Not a fan of the player opt-out stuff with regard to playing this season. Apparently, if the player is designated high risk, they can sit out and get full pay and service time. But that's it. Players without underlying conditions or circumstances aren't going to be entitled to pay or service time if they elect to sit out the season because of the virus. Sucks for the players who might have family at home who are at risk that they don't want to endanger...either they play and presumably sequester themselves away from those family members or they sit out and get nothing. Would make more sense if the "high risk" exception extended to not just the players who may be high risk, but to players with high risk folks in their household as well.
 
A

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Would make more sense if the "high risk" exception extended to not just the players who may be high risk, but to players with high risk folks in their household as well.
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That was a part of the health and safety agreement that the two sides agreed on.
 
soup17

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Regarding luxury tax reset (or not) I cited above (luxury-tax rules will revert back to 2019; there is no "resetting" of the luxury tax for clubs in 2020), Pete replied with the very definitive: "I do not think that is true."
 
DeadlySplitter

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sodenj5 said:
Here’s the thing: baseball has to adapt. They have to change. “HAR! GET OFF MY LAWN! I want the same game that they played in 1890! It’s a perfect game!”

It isn’t. Society as a whole has changed dramatically. People don’t have the attention span for a game like baseball. The NFL is constantly tweaking the rules. The game now is much different than it was 20 years ago because they changed the rules and made offense and passing far more prevalent.

You see it as a dumb rule change. I see it as something different and would like to see how it plays out. People want to see runs, not a 12 inning, 4 hour game.
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so because people have horrible attention spans on average, the game should be diluted? I say no.
 
Marciano490

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Not a fan of the player opt-out stuff with regard to playing this season. Apparently, if the player is designated high risk, they can sit out and get full pay and service time. But that's it. Players without underlying conditions or circumstances aren't going to be entitled to pay or service time if they elect to sit out the season because of the virus. Sucks for the players who might have family at home who are at risk that they don't want to endanger...either they play and presumably sequester themselves away from those family members or they sit out and get nothing. Would make more sense if the "high risk" exception extended to not just the players who may be high risk, but to players with high risk folks in their household as well.
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There was a Nightengale tweet last night in the thread that said players with high risk family members could opt out as well, but that tweet appears to be gone now. Was that information incorrect?
 
sodenj5

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DeadlySplitter said:
so because people have horrible attention spans on average, the game should be diluted? I say no.
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I don’t know what is being diluted. Football has unique OT rules. Hockey and Soccer have unique overtime rules.

This isn’t like they’re having a 10 swing HR derby to determine the winner. They’re giving teams one additional inning with no handicap, and from that point on it shifts to a scenario more likely to produce runs and a result.
 
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