Montreal Rays?

[Infield Infidel]

Considering the Thunder paid $40m to break their lease 2 years early, $5m/year is cheap for the Rays. Per year, that's cheaper than a bullpen arm. They are right to negotiate down, but even at $5m that's $55m over 11 seasons if they get it built by 2017, plus demolition. That ain't bad comparatively speaking.  

 

[ernieshore]

NC people are ridiculously overrepresented in Fenway IMHO from casual observations, based on geography and population. I agree with this sentiment. No legit fanbase south of the Nats and Cincy is 460 miles to the NW, St. Louis 714.
 
It's surprising to me how they didn't get a team during BOA's heyday.

 
In 1998, the Greensboro/Winston-Salem area had a vote to build a major league stadium in hopes of luring the Twins. It got crushed - and was a terrible idea anyway (I say that as a local and a baseball fan). Now, even with all the transplants to Charlotte or RDU and the long history of minor league baseball here, I'm just not sure it is an MLB market. Charlotte pro-fans are like Atlanta's, except maybe even worse, especially if the team is losing. Even attendance at Charlotte's NASCAR races have dropped a lot.  
 
I'd like to see a team in Montreal again. But then again, I want the Nordiques back in Quebec City too. 
 
http://www.savetheminnesotatwins.com/articles/5.6.98.html

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

Wouldn't they be the Montreal Ex-Rays?

Negative.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Many more details about the maneuverings to get baseball back to Montreal emerging:
 
http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/quebec/201411/07/01-4816647-retour-du-baseball-lequipe-dactionnaires-prend-forme.php
 
If you don't read French: basically some big-money quebecois, including Bronfman-fils, and Bell are scheming. After the success of the spring-training games in Montreal, contacted several teams to express their interest and seriousness in bringing baseball back to Montreal. Specifically, they had two meetings with Rays ownership last spring. Speculation that it could be challenging to come up with enough cash to both buy a team and build a new stadium….and that governmental involvement in financing a stadium is very unlikely.
 
 
In parallel, it looks like there is about to be a breakthrough in the impasse between the Rays and St. Petersburg, with the city finally allowing the team to look at other sites in the region, i.e. Tampa. http://www.tampabay.com/news/st-petersburg-and-tampa-bay-rays-could-be-near-agreement-to-allow/2206014
The new St. Pete Mayor has made it a priority to resolve the situation with the Rays, plus it's sounding like the Trop land is becoming more valuable and there is interest from developers in doing other things on the site that could be of interest to the city.
 
My take has been that the Montreal thing is leverage for Stu to get a sweet stadium deal from the various Tampa Bay area governments. Looks like that could play out quite nicely for him, and it's sounding like there could be some momentum to get it resolved sooner rather than later. New stadium and signing a huge new local TV deal in 2017…watch out! We may see a payroll north of $100m!!

 
If they can get the Rays to downtown Tampa/Channelside or the Gateway area, they would have a better chance of getting the Tampa business community to games. That, and getting a stadium better than the Trop. This got me thinking though, are there good indoor baseball stadiums out there? What would be the best case scenario? Realistically there's no way you could have an outdoor baseball stadium in Tampa because the heat and the showers.

 

[canderson]

 
If they can get the Rays to downtown Tampa/Channelside or the Gateway area, they would have a better chance of getting the Tampa business community to games. That, and getting a stadium better than the Trop. This got me thinking though, are there good indoor baseball stadiums out there? What would be the best case scenario? Realistically there's no way you could have an outdoor baseball stadium in Tampa because the heat and the showers.

Houston's is nice. Gimmicky but a good place to catch games. Safeco's pretty great, too, IMO.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

All the modern retractable roof stadiums are pretty nice, add Milwaukee, Phoenix to the above for sure. The only one that's maybe not as nice is Toronto.

 

[Zososoxfan]

All the modern retractable roof stadiums are pretty nice, add Milwaukee, Phoenix to the above for sure. The only one that's maybe not as nice is Toronto.

 
I really didn't like Marlins Park at all. It's cavernous, has a very annoying echo-effect, and that monstrosity in centerfield would look over the top cartoony in Disney World.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

I forgot about Marlins Park...never been there. That said, I think the eccentricities that you don't like there the most have more to do with garish design than in being covered. Remind me, is it retractable or full time indoors?

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Houston's is nice. Gimmicky but a good place to catch games. Safeco's pretty great, too, IMO.

Safeco is unique--an outdoor ballpark with an umbrella. It is not an indoor retractable roof stadium.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

It's close enough to indoors with the top on...it is handy that they have a rail yard adjacent they can park the roof over when it's not in use, though.

 

[hbk72777]

 
In 1998, the Greensboro/Winston-Salem area had a vote to build a major league stadium in hopes of luring the Twins. It got crushed - and was a terrible idea anyway (I say that as a local and a baseball fan). Now, even with all the transplants to Charlotte or RDU and the long history of minor league baseball here, I'm just not sure it is an MLB market. Charlotte pro-fans are like Atlanta's, except maybe even worse, especially if the team is losing. Even attendance at Charlotte's NASCAR races have dropped a lot.  
 
I'd like to see a team in Montreal again. But then again, I want the Nordiques back in Quebec City too. 
 
http://www.savetheminnesotatwins.com/articles/5.6.98.html

 
 
NASCAR attendance is mostly down because we're (NY/NJ,PA, CT) residents are pushing the locals out. New home prices are starting at what Long Island prices are at now. The only people that can afford them are the people who've sold their homes up there. Few jobs pay anywhere decent enough to afford them. Also, the taxes are going way up due to new roads/schools being built. You can barely find people born in the state around the Charlotte/ Concord Harrisburg  area. 1998 was an eternity ago, the population has doubled since 2000. NC has even surpassed NJ in population. And there's no end in sight.
 
Thus we have a strong Yankee/ Red Sox population here now  . I'm sure we could fill up the stadium better than Tampa Bay is now. The local Giants fans take over the stadium so much so, that when they play the Panthers, it looks like a home game. Rich Eisen actually though people flew in for a Thursday night game 2 years back. No, there are just that many here now.
 
 
Besides, they'd be known as the Charlotte Rays. We can have Mrs Garrett as our mascot

 

[Zososoxfan]

I forgot about Marlins Park...never been there. That said, I think the eccentricities that you don't like there the most have more to do with garish design than in being covered. Remind me, is it retractable or full time indoors?

 
It's retractable. I believe the Trop is the only full-time indoor MLB park.
 
With regard to the garish design comment, my problem with Marlins Park has less to do with the Centerfield shenanigans, and more to do with the the 'feel' of the space. I think the choice of building materials was poor, resulting in sound ricocheting all over the place and making it incredibly loud in a bad way. Furthermore, when the HVAC system is pumping, it also is very loud and distracting. I went there for a WBC game and I couldn't hear the people next to me in conversation. Combine this with just typically godawful Miami service people (e.g. concessionaires, ticket takers, etc.) and it's a terrible experience. The Trop doesn't suffer from the same sound effect problems as Marlins Park, but the field is a mockery, the slanted roof is a punchline, and the concourses feel sterile like a mall, but way worse. The fans for the most part are a net negative, although I will say I've been pleasantly surprised to meet more knowledgeable and passionate fans here than I expected. The problem is primarily that even these fans would rather watch from home than visit the Trop regularly (because the park isn't a draw itself and its location). I would love to see a stadium on the Hillsborough side of the bay, preferably close to downtown, to see if baseball is really viable here and because with the Vinik team developments starting to take shape, it could be a nice cornerstone for the city. In a perfect world, the city could arrange a land swap and put a new Rays stadium where the convention center is, but that's a pipe dream.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

It's close enough to indoors with the top on...it is handy that they have a rail yard adjacent they can park the roof over when it's not in use, though.

Uh huh, you come dressed in short sleeves to one of the first 40 games of the year and then tell us how "close enough to indoors" it is.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

The two spring training games at Olympic Stadium are next week, and 80,000 tickets have already been sold (in French). 
 
Russell Martin and planned tributes to Vladimir Guerrero and Orlando Cabrera are helping, of course, but this isn't going to change any minds against Montreal in the Commissioner's office or Stu Sternberg's office.

 

[VORP Speed]

Will it be Les Raies or Les Rayons? This is the question on the minds of Rays fans this weekend.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

46,314 last night. 50,221 today.

Amazingly, without the emotion of a Gary Carter tribute or a 1994 team reunion (I think they were going to do something with Rusty Staub today but he had to have surgery), attendance was UP this year. Only 200 more over two days, but still enormously impressive when you consider it's Easter weekend and Passover.

 

[scotian1]

Watched both games, the atmosphere was excellent.

 

[curly2]

Get 'er done, Stu.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

Manfred's comments that any Montreal talk need to start with a ballpark plan is a pretty big upgrade from Selig's unspoken but well implied "over my dead (or retired) body" stance on the subject...

 

[Spacemans Bong]

To be fair to Selig (well let's not), he did make noises about being open to Montreal before he retired, in a show me kind of way. And something has been shown: there is a prospective ownership group. Larry Rossy, owner of a brand of local discount stores, Stephen Bronfman, son of Expos founder Charles and Seagrams CEO, and Mitch Garber, Caesars CEO are all involved and it's widely believed Bell Media are in there somewhere as well. In addition the Mayor of Montreal is an ex-Minister of Sport and huge Expos fan - he keeps showing up to events wearing old, weathered Expos gear that is obviously his - so the level of government support is much higher than before.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

Unfortunately the CDN $ is at a bad place again, so that's a concern too...

 

[moly99]

Unfortunately the CDN $ is at a bad place again, so that's a concern too...

This is a huge issue that everyone ignores. Owners risk huge losses if they pay wages in one currency and their income in a different currency drops due to exchange rate issues.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

This is a huge issue that everyone ignores. Owners risk huge losses if they pay wages in one currency and their income in a different currency drops due to exchange rate issues.

One would imagine the prospective ownership group would take a long view with regards to the value of the CDN$ .. Sometimes it's up .. Sometimes it's down .. Sometimes it's completely in the tank .. Like now (stupid oil). I think they would be creating their business plan with an average (over say twenty years) value in mind.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

The MLB.TV money and US national TV contract go a much longer way to insulating a non-US team than they did in the 90s.

If the loonie goes to 40 cents then we have a problem, but that's a problem that goes beyond baseball.

 

[mauf]

One would imagine the prospective ownership group would take a long view with regards to the value of the CDN$ .. Sometimes it's up .. Sometimes it's down .. Sometimes it's completely in the tank .. Like now (stupid oil). I think they would be creating their business plan with an average (over say twenty years) value in mind.

Those swings are a huge problem for a business that is leveraged. MLB doesn't let clubs take on debt to the point where they're at risk of insolvency, but debt service obligations could absolutely cut into the club's ability to field a competitive team when the Canadian dollar is low. Currency hedges can help, but they're a double-edged sword -- you might avoid the need for a fire sale when the loonie unexpectedly drops, but you'll give up the appreciation when exchange rates move in your favor.

Also, it probably isn't practical to hedge currency risk more than a few years in the future. So if the loonie's value relative to the USD over the long term is materially lower than you project, the club is likely to be a disappointing investment, even if everything else goes your way. (The reverse is true if the currency is stronger than expected -- you might do well even if you suck at running the business.) Overall, the currency issue is another risk, on top of all the other risks inherent in running a ball club. That makes owning a Canadian MLB club more risky than owning a U.S. club, all other things equal.

 

[Plympton91]

Talk of reintroducing baseball to Montreal should be in the context of expansion, not relocation. If baseball wants to broaden it's appeal, it should get into more markets, not trade one market for another.

It is long past time for them to add two more teams.

 

[mulluysavage]

The Montreal Rois would be kings of the city east of St Lawrence Boulevard, and those to the west might appreciate the return on investment.

 

[OCST]

This is a huge issue that everyone ignores. Owners risk huge losses if they pay wages in one currency and their income in a different currency drops due to exchange rate issues.

Edit: see mauf

 

[8slim]

Talk of reintroducing baseball to Montreal should be in the context of expansion, not relocation. If baseball wants to broaden it's appeal, it should get into more markets, not trade one market for another.

It is long past time for them to add two more teams.

Agree about expansion. And my hunch is that when it comes to non-US markets Manfred is looking south, not north.