Syndergaard with 2 HR (I know, it's been done 66 times by pitchers. But not often in the modern (post 1960) era and for all the runs for a team and just enough to win the game), or 20 K's by Max Scherzer?
More impressive: Syndergaard or Scherzer on 5/11?
- Thread starter Lose Remerswaal
- Start date
Vasgergian on MLBN this morning made the point that Syndergaard has become a real-life Steve Nebraska with last night's show. Since Nebraska is almost certainly the greatest athlete in modern cinematic history, he has to get my vote. Sorry, Max, but in this strikeout environment you needed to finish the blackjack to steal it.
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It wasn't just the Ks. Scherzer walked none, gave up 6 hits (although 2 were homers), and had a strike to ball ratio of 96:23. That's pretty ridiculous. I vote for Scherzer.
Syndergaard as a hitter has 55 career ABs including last nights game and as we say here that's a very small sample size. As a pitcher it would be fair not to expect a whole lot from him offensively, but given the stature of the man it's not unreasonable to assume there may be some occasional dis[play of power. As cool as it was to see Thor go deep twice it wasn't like seeing this from a scrawny, AL, Clay Buccholz type who might get 6 ABs a year. Given the rarity of the 20K game, the pitch count, the strike to ball ratio and that 9 of those Ks were on just 3 pitches I have to give the nod to Scherzer.
For 5/12 performances, can we agree on Pedro? 32 IP 15.2 K/9, 10.8 K/BB 0.56 WHiP on 5/12 during the steroid era, facing designated hitters...
I was coming to say that Rick Wise laughs at this debate.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN197106230.shtml
Edit: But the answer is Max.
And his 3 RBIs weren't needed as all of Syndergaard's were.
And yes, the answer was obvious as the poll shows, but I thought it would be fun to discuss this and maybe a few folks weren't aware of what an amazing night these two pitchers had.
And yes, the answer was obvious as the poll shows, but I thought it would be fun to discuss this and maybe a few folks weren't aware of what an amazing night these two pitchers had.
I know that these are (mostly) not serious, but I have to chime in as someone who actually witnessed the game in question.
45 years later and I can tell you that with one exception, I've never seen a pitcher in greater control of his stuff. (The one exception was Pedro in his near no-hitter in Tampa Bay. ) The only reason Wise did not get a perfect game is that he got squeezed in the 6th inning on a walk, which was promptly erased by a DP.
Between this game and one the previous year (when he retired 34 consecutive batters and drove home the winning run in the bottom of the 12th) Wise has two of the all-time greatest performances in MLB history.
Wise was so loved by the fans that they protested outside of Veterans Stadium when he was traded in the offseason. That anger carried over the the next year and the GM (John Quinn) was forced out when the team continued to suck and the pitcher who the Phillies received in the trade hit a rough patch, getting shelled in 5 straight starts.
Of course, that pitcher was Steve Carlton and he promptly won his next 15 decisions after Quinn was fired. But that's a different story for a different thread.
Max, he was dominant for a longer stretch of the game.
You could also say he was lucky twice (although I would disagree with that sentiment)
Maybe I would say Thor if the HR's were off Max.
You could also say he was lucky twice (although I would disagree with that sentiment)
Maybe I would say Thor if the HR's were off Max.
Holy shit. I had forgotten about that! Look at the attendance and the time of the game. 13 K in the stands and under two hours for the game. If this happened today, heads would explode.
By game score, Scherzer's 87 is only the seventh-highest of 2016. I know that game score penalizes earned runs more than it rewards strikeouts, so it might not be the best metric for something as historic as 20 Ks, but last night Max still scored a full 10 points lower than Velasquez' 16K, 3 hit CGSO last month.* For that (in addition to the WPA numbers mentioned upthread) I'll give a slight nod to Thor.
* For additional reference, Scherzer is the only pitcher in the last 20 years to post a game score of at least 87 while giving up 2 or more ER, but the 46th pitcher in the last 20 years to post a game score of at least 87 while giving up 1 or more ER. The highest game score in a non-shutout? Pedro's 17K game against the Yankees, which scored a 98 and still blows my mind every time I look at that box score.
* For additional reference, Scherzer is the only pitcher in the last 20 years to post a game score of at least 87 while giving up 2 or more ER, but the 46th pitcher in the last 20 years to post a game score of at least 87 while giving up 1 or more ER. The highest game score in a non-shutout? Pedro's 17K game against the Yankees, which scored a 98 and still blows my mind every time I look at that box score.
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Yeah but WPA is a dumb way to evaluate an individual's performance--it's heavily influenced by things that have nothing to do with what the individual in question did. If Thor does exactly the same thing but his team puts up a 5-spot in the first inning, that WPA collapses.
Maeda has only allowed 3 other HRs all season in 43 innings.
Scherzer has allowed 11 HRs in 52 innings.
Hmm, but I don't get the point in introducing a hypothetical, since we're talking about one specific game. What did actually happen was he essentially singlehandedly won the game by driving in all four runs against a tough pitcher while simultaneously outpitching him.