Most iconic player

[bankshot1]

Fun! I'll start with Dan to Theo to Ben's list and just note my changes:
 
BUF - Jim Kelly
CIN - Anthony Munoz
PIT - Terry Bradshaw
SD - Junior Seau
OAK - Jim Otto*
 
*Side note, for anyone who saw the FRONTLINE on CTE, did anyone notice that Jim Otto's house is completely decked out in Raiders regalia? The guy lives and breathes Raiders.
 
KC - Len Dawson
JAX - Jimmy Smith
HOU - Andre Johnson
NYG - Lawrence Taylor is the easy choice.
DAL - Emmitt Smith. I hear the case for Staubach, but Smith was the bell-cow for the Cowboy's best run; he was also emblematic of the Jerry Jones era, which defines the Cowboys as we know them today.
WAS - Sammy Baugh, I guess. If we're going with modern-only guys, let's go with Riggins over Jurgenson.
CHI - Dick Butkus.
TB - Warren Sapp. I know that he ditched the Bucs halfway through his career, but I'm still taking him over Brooks.
ATL - Matt Ryan (!)
CAR - Steve Smith, but Cam Newton will own this title soon enough.
STL - Merlin Olsen

Merlin Olsen never played for the St. Louis Rams how the hell is he the team's iconic player?
 
He might be the LA Rams iconic player, or maybe its Deacon Jones, or Bob Waterfield.
 
St Louis Rams? Probably Warner.
 
And totally agree with Gino being the Pats iconic player prior to the arrival of TB12.

 

[mauf]

Hey Dennis Rodman-
 
This is kind of lame.  You are injecting race into a conversation that has no need of one.  Largent was his generations Welker.  He did it all, and he did it reliably.  He also did it spectacularly for his time.  He played special teams.  He was a star in Seattle for a team that often had nothing else that was shiny.  But he was an icon for them (and frankly that is all that is being said here - he was SEATTLE's iconic player).  As noted above when he retired he held many substantial NFL passing records.  He was routinely listed in the top 3-5 receivers in the league.  The fact that Seattle has embarrassingly slim pickings (similar to New England) for their icon should not diminish the fact that he was/is their icon.  He's got the jacket for the HOF, he continues to be active in their community.  His skin color has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
Should we discount the status of Hannah because he isn't the color you prefer to paint with?  For a pathetic franchise in New England who had little else Hannah was an icon here.  Has he been dwarfed by Brady?  Sure...  but no one is asking about the color of his skin.

A little touchy, are we?

I love how you describe Largent as "this generation's Welker" as though that supports your point rather than mine. Only hard-core fans will remember Welker's name 30 years from now.

Of course, that's unfair to Largent, who was a better player than Welker. Besides that, circumstances conspired to make Largent an icon -- the lack of football history in Seattle played a role, as did being perhaps the first HOF-caliber receiver to play the vast majority of his career after the 1978 rule changes. I don't think it's controversial to say that being white played a role as well; America wasn't as open-minded 30 years ago as it is now.

Comparing Hannah to Largent is apples and oranges. Few players, at any position, have outshined their contemporaries to the same degree Hannah did -- he's in the company of guys like Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, and maybe Anthony Munoz. Not surprisingly, all these other names have also been mentioned in this discussion.

 

[Devizier]

Merlin Olsen never played for the St. Louis Rams how the hell is he the team's iconic player?
 

 
I was operating under the assumption that we count (CLE/BAL excepted) original locations along with the relocations. If we're chucking out the LA part of their history, then I'll go with Warner, but Orlando Pace is a strong choice, too.

 

[RetractableRoof]

A little touchy, are we?

I love how you describe Largent as "this generation's Welker" as though that supports your point rather than mine. Only hard-core fans will remember Welker's name 30 years from now.

Of course, that's unfair to Largent, who was a better player than Welker. Besides that, circumstances conspired to make Largent an icon -- the lack of football history in Seattle played a role, as did being perhaps the first HOF-caliber receiver to play the vast majority of his career after the 1978 rule changes. I don't think it's controversial to say that being white played a role as well; America wasn't as open-minded 30 years ago as it is now.

Comparing Hannah to Largent is apples and oranges. Few players, at any position, have outshined their contemporaries to the same degree Hannah did -- he's in the company of guys like Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, and maybe Anthony Munoz. Not surprisingly, all these other names have also been mentioned in this discussion.

Touchy?  Nope...  
 
The fact remains that this topic had no need of any racial tone.  You added it.  You took a person of whatever professional abilities and said he wouldn't be an icon if he were black.  I provided a bit of background saying that Seattle had slim pickings with which to choose their icon - but that he did have a high level of professional accomplishment.  You disagree that he was a quality player even though he is in the HOF.  Your deal, your opinion.  You think his performance pales relative to the best receiver in history - no worries, it's your opinion.
 
This thread is about "most iconic players" and people are identifying that person for each team - and having a discussion about it seems like fun.  No one is saying that player X is better or worse than player Y - except in the context of the same team.  You've decided to add to the discussion that player A from one team isn't nearly the stature of players X, Y, Z of other teams - and not only that - if he were black we wouldn't even mention him.
 
At a minimum, you've inject racism into a conversation that didn't have it, or need it.  If you want to have that discussion - the dopes are always asking for new threads to be started.  This thread itself was an offshoot of another thread - make a new one yourself.   It just doesn't add any value in this conversation in my eyes.  It feels like you are trolling... and maybe I just bit.  Either way racist comments (reverse or otherwise) don't need to be added.

 

[mauf]

From Largent's Wikipedia entry:
Largent was a pretty big deal in his day; the explosion of passing numbers since has made his stats look less impressive than they were. Plus Seattle has basically no one else (from the same Wiki article, the only retired numbers are Walter Jones and Cortez Kennedy).

Largent was only a first-team All Pro once, and I'd say he was on the front edge of that explosion in passing numbers (a couple years ahead of non-iconic guys like Art Monk and James Lofton, who had comparable careers), but your point about Seattle having no one else is correct. Cortez Kennedy is clearly the best player in franchise history, but DTs aren't icons, plus Kennedy played on sone dreadful teams even by Seattle standards -- I think he only played in one playoff game.

 

[bankshot1]

 
I was operating under the assumption that we count (CLE/BAL excepted) original locations along with the relocations. If we're chucking out the LA part of their history, then I'll go with Warner, but Orlando Pace is a strong choice, too.

 No need to chuck LA.
 
If you had listed Merlin Olsen as an iconic "Ram". I would have generally agreed with you (or added some other names, Deacon Jones, Warner etc), but you listed him as an iconic "STL" player. I'd venture to guess if you asked any citizen of St Looey who was the iconic St Looey football player, Merlin doesn't get a vote, but Larry Wilson would.    

 

[Devizier]

 No need to chuck LA.
 
If you had listed Merlin Olsen as an iconic "Ram". I would have generally agreed with you (or added some other names, Deacon Jones, Warner etc), but you listed him as an iconic "STL" player. I'd venture to guess if you asked any citizen of St Looey who was the iconic St Looey football player, Merlin doesn't get a vote, but Larry Wilson would.    

 
Fair enough. Just using modern franchise names as lazy shorthand, but the implication is of course otherwise.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Fun! I'll start with Dan to Theo to Ben's list and just note my changes:
 
BUF - Jim Kelly
CIN - Anthony Munoz
PIT - Terry Bradshaw
SD - Junior Seau
OAK - Jim Otto*
 
*Side note, for anyone who saw the FRONTLINE on CTE, did anyone notice that Jim Otto's house is completely decked out in Raiders regalia? The guy lives and breathes Raiders.
 
KC - Len Dawson
JAX - Jimmy Smith
HOU - Andre Johnson
NYG - Lawrence Taylor is the easy choice.
DAL - Emmitt Smith. I hear the case for Staubach, but Smith was the bell-cow for the Cowboy's best run; he was also emblematic of the Jerry Jones era, which defines the Cowboys as we know them today.
WAS - Sammy Baugh, I guess. If we're going with modern-only guys, let's go with Riggins over Jurgenson.
CHI - Dick Butkus.
TB - Warren Sapp. I know that he ditched the Bucs halfway through his career, but I'm still taking him over Brooks.
ATL - Matt Ryan (!)
CAR - Steve Smith, but Cam Newton will own this title soon enough.
STL - Merlin Olsen

Out of curiosity, why do you devalue Deion Sanders? Is it because he only played 5 years there and had team success after he left? Is it because of his mocking former teammate Andre Rison?
 
In my mind, one of the keys aspects of an icon is recognition outside of the sport and sports world, as epitomized by guys like (and the essence of FYA's original post, I surmise) Montana, Brady, and Marino.  It should be undisputed who is/was/will be more recognizable (during their career and after it) between Matt Ryan and Deion Sanders to non-Falcons and non-NFL fans. Ask the people who watch only the Superbowl who each person is, and you have the answer. 
 
Deion basically put the Falcons on the NFL map. he was the one that brought prestige to the CB position and who brought offense to the position and redefined it.
 
Obviously his brash outspoken personality is a part of that, but that is just it. Icons are the interesting ones.  And he was certainly a better CB than Ryan is a QB, eventhough it's been said several times upthread, it's not necessarily about the best player.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Oh, and he also played for the Braves, another professional sports franchise in the same city, and was on the active roster for a playoff game the same day.

 

[Devizier]

I don't "devalue" Deion Sanders. He was a better player with the Cowboys and won a Superbowl there (never mind San Francisco).

 

[SoxFanInCali]

*Side note, for anyone who saw the FRONTLINE on CTE, did anyone notice that Jim Otto's house is completely decked out in Raiders regalia? The guy lives and breathes Raiders.

Otto used to own some Burger Kings in the Sacramento area.  I remember going in one on the way to Tahoe, it looked exactly like a normal Burger King inside, except the entire color scheme was silver and black. Also had his jersey and some pictures on the walls.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

 
Raiders - Biletnikoff. Probably just a personal opinion, but I identify him with that franchise moreso than Madden (who made his name far more for his post-coaching career) or Bo, who didn't play long enough, or even Marcus Allen, who I don't think was ever the best RB in football for even one season (although I'd need to think about that)
 

 
Marcus Allen was the league MVP in 1985. 
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleMa00.htm

Interesting thoughts re: where the franchise is in time.  I agree with that as well.  
 
 
Raiders: Maybe Art Shell?  He played and coached... but I'm not a Raider fan.  Though if I am playing word association and I get asked about the Raiders I think (non-owners) of Madden.
 

 
 
Half right in my opinion. I think the NFL network got it right on their stupid "top ten Raiders" segment when they went with these guys together: 

 

[coremiller]

The Raiders are the strongest case where the Franchise Icon is clearly not a player -- it's Al Davis.  For better or for worse, for 50 years Al Davis WAS the Raiders.  The outlaw image, the Silver and Black, the logo, the relocations, "just win, baby", the "commitment to excellence" -- all of that came from Davis.

 

[alydar]

 
Marcus Allen was the league MVP in 1985. 
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleMa00.htm
 

Sure, but that's one year, and I'm pretty sure during that stretch Eric Dickerson (same age as Allen) was considered the best RB in the NFL (his '83 - '89 are unreal). 
 
MVPs are funny things, as the system often rewards people who have one really good year. As an example, Boomer Esiason was MVP in 1988, but I don't think anyone would have ever considered him 'the best QB in the NFL' on the basis of one year.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Sure, but that's one year, and I'm pretty sure during that stretch Eric Dickerson (same age as Allen) was considered the best RB in the NFL (his '83 - '89 are unreal). 
 
MVPs are funny things, as the system often rewards people who have one really good year. As an example, Boomer Esiason was MVP in 1988, but I don't think anyone would have ever considered him 'the best QB in the NFL' on the basis of one year.

Speaking about unreal iconic RB play:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQfU9KaRsvk

 

[deanx0]

See there needs to be two answers for the Colts because there are two Colt franchises. The Indianapolis Colts fan base has absolutely no connection to the Baltimore years so it's Manning in a walkover. I went to 4-6 Colt games a year throughout the 90's, and until Manning showed up, the most common jersey you'd see in the stands were Marino Dolphin jerseys, even when the Colts weren't playing Miami. And that first Luck year, I think you saw just as many Manning Bronco jerseys in the stands of Lucas Oil Stadium as any Colts player.