NBA Finals Thread

[Bleedred]

IMO, Lebron James is on of the top 10 players of all time, but that leaves him out of the "best ever" conversation by a long shot.  For anyone, ever, to compare him to MJ simply hasn't done his homework.  MJ got bored...because no one could challenge his greatness.   MJ would have eaten K. Leonard for lunch (and that's no slight on KL).

 

[riboflav]

D+C concerned that SAS is running up the score.

 

[RedOctober3829]

D+C concerned that SAS is running up the score.

What if Patty Mills steals 3rd?

 

[bball831]

Couldn't believe we were 1 good quarter in game 7 from beating them with just Rondo/Pierce\KG/Allen and then flotsam and jetson.

 
 
It's such an amazing what if that era has.  What if KG's knee never goes bad.  I think that 2008-09 team was better than the 08 team until they got hurt.  I think they're in the Finals again vs. the Lakers.  2010 will always haunt me. 2012 they're up 7 at half with a Finals trip on the line against a young OKC team.  Who knows?  I can make a case that era should have had 3 titles instead of one. 

 

[riboflav]

IMO, Lebron James is on of the top 10 players of all time, but that leaves him out of the "best ever" conversation by a long shot.  For anyone, ever, to compare him to MJ simply hasn't done his homework.  MJ got bored...because no one could challenge his greatness.   MJ would have eaten K. Leonard for lunch (and that's no slight on KL).

 
Honestly, I think LBJ plays when he wants to and when he feels totally healthy and right. Sometimes, he pouts and shrinks when things aren't going right. He also seems to get a little anxious in big moments (e.g. he was terrible in the 4th quarter of game 6 last year).

 

[Grunherz54]

3-13 FG, 4-8 FT, and only 10 points in a must-win game for the Heat at home. Looks like Dwyane Wade has already opted out...

 

[Nomar813]

 

[Bleedred]

The Heat PA announcer hasn't given up at least

 

[RedOctober3829]

James Jones is the garbage collector tonight

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Voids of the Day
 
3rd void - Ref in Sao Paolo
 
2nd void - Croat GK
 
1st void - Miami Heat roster

 

[Greg29fan]

Bobby Ramos Time!

 

[scottyno]

Couldn't believe we were 1 good quarter in game 7 from beating them with just Rondo/Pierce\KG/Allen and then flotsam and jetson.

and allen was playing hurt and could barely shoot most of that playoff run

 

[bball831]

Wow I am stunned the cretins in Miami summoned a Let's go Heat chant.  STUNNED.

 

[riboflav]

and allen was playing hurt and could barely shoot most of that playoff run

 
So Allen gave LBJ two titles?

 

[Brickowski]

We even had a Greg Oden sighting.

 

[bball831]

 
So Allen gave LBJ two titles?

 
Awesome.  I love this and am running with it. It's not wrong if you believe it right? 

 

[Ed Hillel]

It's such an amazing what if that era has.  What if KG's knee never goes bad.  I think that 2008-09 team was better than the 08 team until they got hurt.  I think they're in the Finals again vs. the Lakers.  2010 will always haunt me. 2012 they're up 7 at half with a Finals trip on the line against a young OKC team.  Who knows?  I can make a case that era should have had 3 titles instead of one.

We'll never know with the 09 team, though I agree they were better, but a healthy KG doesn't get dominated by Pau like he did in 2010. I don't know what HGH KG started taking in 2011 and 2012, but it was some crazy good shit. If that KG was around in 2010, they have at least 2.

 

[bball831]

These Pop conversations with his player at the end of games are awesome.  It's like a Dad talking to his kid after a little league game.  

 

[Bigpupp]

Wow I am stunned the cretins in Miami summoned a Let's go Heat chant.  STUNNED.

I thought that was being pumped in through the PA... We're there real people chanting there?

 

[bball831]

Reporter: "Who would be your Finals MVP?"
Pop: "Next question"
 
There was no doubt he'd respond like that and it was still funny.  

 

[bball831]

Stu Scott: "Kawhi Leonard, who are you man?"  (great question Stu)
Kawhi: "I'm Kawhi Leonard playing for the San Antonio Spurs trying to win a championship"
 
I love Kawhi -- he looks miserable giving interviews.  

 

[Kliq]

I think it couldn't be more clear that Miami, a lot like OKC doesn't have the horses to compete with San Antonio. The Spurs are just a scary machine, with 10 legit players that can beat you. Miami is really just LeBron, Wade when he is healthy and isn't bitching (which is like, 10% of the time) and Bosh. San Antonio is just better, plain and simple.
 
On LeBron, I don't want to say that he lacks heart, because he was great over the last few years, even in big moments, but he just lacks that consistent extra gear. He displays it sometimes, but he just can't reach that sinister level of competitiveness that guys like MJ, Bird and Russell reached on a consistent level. If you need any proof, just look at tonights game. The first half we saw the coasting LeBron, the not interested LeBron. In the 3rd Quarter, we got All-Time Great LeBron, where he killed it with scary precision. But in the 4th quarter, he disappeared again.
 
I go back to what Bill Simmons wrote in 2009. We all expected LeBron to be the next MJ, when in reality he is really like the evolutionary Doctor J. There wasn't a huge gap in talent between MJ and Erving, but there was a huge gap in their pathological need to win. Some guys have it and sometimes they don't.

 

[luckiestman]

ITS BEAUTIFUL MAN
 
 

 

[ivanvamp]

What a performance, again, by San Antonio.  Going into Miami, the home of the defending champs, tied at 1, and absolutely obliterating them twice in a row, is just one of the most impressive things I've seen an NBA team do in a long, long time.  
 
The series isn't yet over, though.  Miami steals game 5 somehow, returns home and wins in front of the home crowd, and then all of a sudden it's game 7 against a possibly very tight Spurs team.
 
The problem will be stealing game 5.  The way the Spurs are playing, Miami will be lucky to stay within 20 points.
 
 
EDIT:  As for LeBron, it's clear that he pretty much has to do EVERYTHING for this team.  Those third quarter stats were insane.  He had 19 points on like 7-8 shooting, and the rest of the team had 2 points on like 1-10 shooting.  You could see how worn down he was from having to carry the entire team on his back.  

 

[riboflav]

What a performance, again, by San Antonio.  Going into Miami, the home of the defending champs, tied at 1, and absolutely obliterating them twice in a row, is just one of the most impressive things I've seen an NBA team do in a long, long time.  
 
The series isn't yet over, though.  Miami steals game 5 somehow, returns home and wins in front of the home crowd, and then all of a sudden it's game 7 against a possibly very tight Spurs team.
 
The problem will be stealing game 5.  The way the Spurs are playing, Miami will be lucky to stay within 20 points.

 
Too bad it's not 2-3-2.

 

[ivanvamp]

 
Too bad it's not 2-3-2.

 
Why is it too bad?  I much prefer the 2-2-1-1-1.  

 

[riboflav]

 
Why is it too bad?  I much prefer the 2-2-1-1-1.  

 
Rooting against the Heat. 2-2-1-1-1 favors a Heat comeback.

 

[bosockboy]

It's such an amazing what if that era has.  What if KG's knee never goes bad.  I think that 2008-09 team was better than the 08 team until they got hurt.  I think they're in the Finals again vs. the Lakers.  2010 will always haunt me. 2012 they're up 7 at half with a Finals trip on the line against a young OKC team.  Who knows?  I can make a case that era should have had 3 titles instead of one.

Yeah the 09 team as 27-2 out of the chute. I've thought KG'e injury cost them a 2008-2010 3 peat.

 

[riboflav]

These are the world's worst questions.

 

[bball831]

Duncan scored 10, Ginobili had 7 and Parker had 2 assists.  The Spurs still won by 20.

 

[ivanvamp]

 
Rooting against the Heat. 2-2-1-1-1 favors a Heat comeback.

 
How so?  2-3-2 means Miami stands a better chance of getting it to 3-2.  In either case, Miami has to win two on the road.  But in a 2-2-1-1-1, San Antonio just needs to win a home game and can prevent Miami from ever playing another home game this season.

 

[Kliq]

Isn't a little weird that the Heat always have these random guys that they play and then don't play? Like, Spo dusted off Udonis Haslem and Tony Douglas, two guys that have barely played for this series, and the Heat just insert them into significant moments in the series. I have never seen a coach that couldn't get his rotation figured out during a series like Spo.

 

[riboflav]

 
How so?  2-3-2 means Miami stands a better chance of getting it to 3-2.  In either case, Miami has to win two on the road.  But in a 2-2-1-1-1, San Antonio just needs to win a home game and can prevent Miami from ever playing another home game this season.

 
Because the 3-1 comeback in a 2-3-2 has never happened. 

 

[triniSox]

Congrats to the Dallas Mavericks, obviously the 2nd best team in the NBA.

Thank you!

 

[Brickowski]

EDIT:  As for LeBron, it's clear that he pretty much has to do EVERYTHING for this team.  Those third quarter stats were insane.  He had 19 points on like 7-8 shooting, and the rest of the team had 2 points on like 1-10 shooting.

19 points but zero assists. The NBA star system makes you forget sometimes that it is a team game.

I'm not knocking LeBron, BTW. Put him on the Spurs and he'd be devastating. He's a willing passer and a great defender. But Miami isn't wired to play the way the Spurs do.

It's not as if SA does anything radical. Half their possessions begin with a simple three man weave.

 

[riboflav]

Isn't a little weird that the Heat always have these random guys that they play and then don't play? Like, Spo dusted off Udonis Haslem and Tony Douglas, two guys that have barely played for this series, and the Heat just insert them into significant moments in the series. I have never seen a coach that couldn't get his rotation figured out during a series like Spo.

 
I think this is unfair. The Heat's bench is pretty bad. Spo is a fantastic coach. In Douglas, he was looking for defensive intensity and energy which the rest of the Heat lacked and Haslem came in at a time of desperation when a coach should start throwing the kitchen sink at the problem.

 

[dhellers]

I think it couldn't be more clear that Miami, a lot like OKC doesn't have the horses to compete with San Antonio. The Spurs are just a scary machine, with 10 legit players that can beat you. Miami is really just LeBron, Wade when he is healthy and isn't bitching (which is like, 10% of the time) and Bosh. San Antonio is just better, plain and simple.
 
On LeBron, I don't want to say that he lacks heart, because he was great over the last few years, even in big moments, but he just lacks that consistent extra gear. He displays it sometimes, but he just can't reach that sinister level of competitiveness that guys like MJ, Bird and Russell reached on a consistent level. If you need any proof, just look at tonights game. The first half we saw the coasting LeBron, the not interested LeBron. In the 3rd Quarter, we got All-Time Great LeBron, where he killed it with scary precision. But in the 4th quarter, he disappeared again.
 
I go back to what Bill Simmons wrote in 2009. We all expected LeBron to be the next MJ, when in reality he is really like the evolutionary Doctor J. There wasn't a huge gap in talent between MJ and Erving, but there was a huge gap in their pathological need to win. Some guys have it and sometimes they don't.

I think that Lebron just does not want to carry a team all by himself. After a while, he throttles his energy, and will not go all out all the time.
His play in the last few games is like the playoffs in his last year in Cleveland, where it seemed he was waiting for help, and if it didn't show up he wasn't going to cover the gap.

 

[Statman]

Everyone knows that the Heat are going to get 50 FTs in the next game so it's not over by a long shot.
 
Welcome to the NBA. 

 

[Kliq]

 
I think this is unfair. The Heat's bench is pretty bad. Spo is a fantastic coach. In Douglas, he was looking for defensive intensity and energy which the rest of the Heat lacked and Haslem came in at a time of desperation when a coach should start throwing the kitchen sink at the problem.

 
I'm not trying to knock Spo, I think he is a fine coach, but finding energy on the defensive end had been a problem for a while in this series. Why did it take him till late in the 3rd quarter tonight to put Haslem in? Haslem has been a decent player for Miami for a long time, why did it take Spo so long to get Haslem in the game?
 
In an unrelated note, good lord Stephen A Smith is bad.

 

[dhellers]

Leonard shows up in game 2 and this was a sweep.

If parker/duncan don't miss 4 free throws in a row, this is probably a sweep.

 

[Kliq]

Everyone knows that the Heat are going to get 50 FTs in the next game so it's not over by a long shot.
 
Welcome to the NBA. 

 
That is a David Stern thing. I mean, Joey Crawford reffed tonight and the Spurs still won.

 

[Brickowski]

Everyone knows that the Heat are going to get 50 FTs in the next game so it's not over by a long shot.
 
Welcome to the NBA.

I thought that would happen tonight, but it didn't. I doubt if it will happen in San Antonio. My God, they actually let Tony Parker shoot a few three throws tonight. That does not bode well for the Heat.

 

[Kliq]

I mean seriously, I think if I wanted to torture someone, I think the worst thing you could do was to put them on a long car trip with Stephen A Smith in riding shotgun.

 

[jablo1312]

 
Honestly, I think LBJ plays when he wants to and when he feels totally healthy and right. Sometimes, he pouts and shrinks when things aren't going right. He also seems to get a little anxious in big moments (e.g. he was terrible in the 4th quarter of game 6 last year).

 
He had a couple turnovers in the last few minutes. He also went into beast mode in the first 10, and hit 1 of the 2 threes to send the game to OT.

 

[bball831]

Barkley the only one saying it like it is.  Everyone else playing the fatigue card for Miami and Chuck rightfully says it's a BS excuse and they're just getting their ass kicked.

 

[riboflav]

 
He had a couple turnovers in the last few minutes. He also went into beast mode in the first 10, and hit 1 of the 2 threes to send the game to OT.

 
LBJ was terrible in the 4th - six turnovers. Not two. You can argue he had better big moments in other games but not in that one.

 

[The Social Chair]

Some of the Lebron posts on the last page are just ridiculous. These losses have nothing to do with Lebron James.

I'm not sure if Wade is better than Larry Hughes was in the 07 finals.

 

[Statman]

Some of the Lebron posts on the last page are just ridiculous. These loses have nothing to do with Lebron James.

 
So he gets all the credit when the Heat win, but no blame when they lose?  You think a team with MJ, Magic or Larry would lose two straight home games by TWENTY+ points?  
 
This picture says it all: 
 

 

[riboflav]

Some of the Lebron posts on the last page are just ridiculous. These losses have nothing to do with Lebron James.

I'm not sure if Wade is better than Larry Hughes was in the 07 finals.

 
Calm down. No one said he sucks. It's just a legacy convo in a game thread of all things. The argument is that thus far his career does not measure up to at least five or six NBA players. Hard to argue otherwise but have a go at it if you think he is currently on the level of Kobe, MJ, Shaq, et al.

 

[bball831]

ESPN True Hoop killing the Heat in the "Grades" post:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/20934/heat-reaction-grading-spurs-heat-gm-4
 
Wade - F:

 
Paging Dwyane Wade to the American Airlines Arena. Sure, someone was wearing No. 3 for the Heat, but it didn't look like the guy who averaged 20 points on .545-.462-.850 shooting against the Indiana Pacers a series ago. Wade couldn't elevate, couldn't finish shots in the paint, and got beat off the dribble by the paunchy Boris Diaw. Not what you want from your No. 2 option in the Finals.

 
Bosh - C:

That didn't last long. After an early effort got him as many shots in the first seven minutes as he took in all of Game 3, his touches and impact tailed off, and the Spurs' spread-out motion offense meant he couldn't make a big defensive impact. It's not that the Heat need more from him -- they need to let him do more.

 
Chalmers - D- (and that seems generous):

What happened to Miami's backcourt? Chalmers looked more like an NBA player than he did in the first three games, but that's kind of like saying Jacksonville is closer than Miami to San Antonio: technically true, but you're still in the wrong area code. Chalmers started the game nearly air-balling a layup, and was confounded by Tony Parker and Patty Mills scampering courtwide throughout.

 
Lebron got a B+

 
 
Hard to stomach how his team showed up. After some early intestinal distress, LeBron's issues cleared up in the second half, as one dunk punctuated 19 of the Heat's 21 third-quarter points. But he needs relief to come from his teammates, and for 48 minutes, none came. He's not on a superteam, he is the superstar, and that's just not enough against these Spurs.