NBA In-Season Tournament 2023 Discussion and Gamethread

[m0ckduck]

Finally, I love love love what point differential does to games. Sometimes it gets sloppy, but the effort dial gets turned up way harder, and every mental lapse that leads to a backdoor layup feels bigger. They took the goal differential drama of the 2nd leg of a Champions League game, and successfully ported it over to the NBA. Impressive.

I'm excited for next year, since teams will have experienced game 4 already, and now know they have to care about point differential in games 1-3.

Funny, I was just coming here to post, "The IST is awesome, but the point differential aspect must go!". Reading the collective excitement expressed here over the last couple pages gave me pause though.

The alternative would be ceding tie-breaker status to something related to current season performance but extrinsic to the IST, like overall winning percentage or record in non-IST head-to-head games.

The pros of point differential: it's obviously exciting and creates importance around 4th quarter November play, which is a minor miracle. And it allows for a truly level playing field where every team starts the IST on equal footing with an equal chance.

Some of the downsides are observable in this article where players talk about how weird it felt to run up the score while trying to respect the game: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39003182/integrity-questioned-season-tourney-point-differential-tiebreaker . It's literally the first time in NBA history that point differential has been a decisive thing, right? It feels like one might as well decide games around 'which team got more dunks or hit more 3s'.

 

[lovegtm]

Funny, I was just coming here to post, "The IST is awesome, but the point differential aspect must go!". Reading the collective excitement expressed here over the last couple pages gave me pause though.

The alternative would be ceding tie-breaker status to something related to current season performance but extrinsic to the IST, like overall winning percentage or record in non-IST head-to-head games.

The pros of point differential: it's obviously exciting and creates importance around 4th quarter November play, which is a minor miracle. And it allows for a truly level playing field where every team starts the IST on equal footing with an equal chance.

Some of the downsides are observable in this article where players talk about how weird it felt to run up the score while trying to respect the game: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39003182/integrity-questioned-season-tourney-point-differential-tiebreaker . It's literally the first time in NBA history that point differential has been a decisive thing, right? It feels like one might as well decide games around 'which team got more dunks or hit more 3s'.

I strongly disagree with the bolded (re dunks and 3s). Scoring more points than your opponent is the core mechanic of basketball, and there are a lot of different stylistic ways to get there. For example, while the Celtics sought out variance by launching 3s early, they also locked in on D for 4 quarters, to a degree we've rarely seen this year. It's exciting.

Incentivizing players to target the core mechanic of basketball at all times seems, empirically, to lead to very exciting play.

As for the "it's weird" criticism from the players.....no shit! You know what's normal? Mailing in November games, or playing down to the score once a blowout is in hand.

The entire point of the tournament is to jolt players and fans out of established patterns in a way that is fun to watch, and it's been wildly successful at that so far.

At the end of the day, we watch NBA basketball to see the best players and coaches competing their asses off. Anything that moves us incrementally towards having more of that is a huge win.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Yeah, watching Billy Donovan and the Bulls get all pissy when the Cs started fouling Drummond was worth the whole tourney for me. Lol boo hoo, indeed. Sorry your crappy team has to try not to get rolled by 40.

 

[bougrj1]

My only quibble with the IST is I wish they’d do away with east vs west once they get to the knockout round. We already get this structure for the playoffs and all the teams playing in the next round will now play 5 times this year. They should just reseed 1-8 and play from there.

 

[tims4wins]

What happens when the IST is done? There are still like 4 months left of the regular season. Should the league think about spreading it out more? Or starting it later in the season? So many teams are just playing out the stretch come March, I wonder if they could change up the timing a bit to make the last couple months more interesting.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Good thing that the Pats are unwatchable, and so no one cares at all.

But I am under no illusion that the Pats will lose the ratings battle to the Celtics, because FOOTBAW! I can only feel sympathy for those who choose the Pats instead.

Yeah, watching Billy Donovan and the Bulls get all pissy when the Cs started fouling Drummond was worth the whole tourney for me. Lol boo hoo, indeed. Sorry your crappy team has to try not to get rolled by 40.

Right, these guys are all professionals. The Bulls and Celtics split the season series in 2022-23 despite the record difference between the teams. It's also ONE NIGHT of being sensitive to score differential, and a single night that you should maybe lay off of Drummond's minutes to adjust accordingly. If this was Duke vs CCRI, then maybe I give a furrowed brow when Duke's starters are left in with 5 minutes to go.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I get this. I kind of like it. I understand the Celts play the Pacers in the next round.

if the Celts had not qualified for the next round, who would they play that day? Would they have played an easier team than the Pacers? Might that not be a good thing?

 

[snowmanny]

What happens when the IST is done? There are still like 4 months left of the regular season. Should the league think about spreading it out more? Or starting it later in the season? So many teams are just playing out the stretch come March, I wonder if they could change up the timing a bit to make the last couple months more interesting.

This is true of every sport. NBA has this, then Christmas, then the All-Star stuff, then has the race for play-off seeding including play-in games to engage more teams without diluting the actual playoffs (even further). I'm not sure how much more you want them to stuff in there, but I think they're doing a pretty good job marketing their product all season long.

edit- a really good job.

 

[snowmanny]

I get this. I kind of like it. I understand the Celts play the Pacers in the next round.

if the Celts had not qualified for the next round, who would they play that day? Would they have played an easier team than the Pacers? Might that not be a good thing?

They would play other loser teams on two designated days. It was built into the schedul
I suppose it might be a good thing but maybe it would have been Orlando and Cleveland.

 

[lovegtm]

I get this. I kind of like it. I understand the Celts play the Pacers in the next round.

if the Celts had not qualified for the next round, who would they play that day? Would they have played an easier team than the Pacers? Might that not be a good thing?

The Celtics are going to qualify for the playoffs with a good seed unless something almost unimaginable happens.

So I'd much rather watch them play a high-energy game against a decent team.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

They would play other loser teams on two designated days. It was built into the schedul
I suppose it might be a good thing but maybe it would have been Orlando and Cleveland.

True

The Celtics are going to qualify for the playoffs with a good seed unless something almost unimaginable happens.

So I'd much rather watch them play a high-energy game against a decent team.

I know this is true. But I like wins. I prefer games on National TV, so this is best for Lose R.

 

[Cornboy14]

if the Celts had not qualified for the next round, who would they play that day? Would they have played an easier team than the Pacers? Might that not be a good thing?

They would have played two teams that didn’t make the knockout round. It would have been an easier group for sure. They get Indiana and then either Milwaukee or the Knicks.

For example, Philly didn’t make it and they now play Washington and Atlanta.

 

[tims4wins]

This is true of every sport. NBA has this, then Christmas, then the All-Star stuff, then has the race for play-off seeding including play-in games to engage more teams without diluting the actual playoffs (even further). I'm not sure how much more you want them to stuff in there, but I think they're doing a pretty good job marketing their product all season long.

edit- a really good job.

Yeah I get that. Maybe I am under-crediting the impact of the play-in games on the playoff race. I think the top seeds still tend to coast down the stretch, but there is a little more intrigue for (roughly) the 5th through 12th place teams trying to jockey to avoid the play-in game or make the play-in game. It's certainly way better than before. The NBA has done an awesome job making their product relevant for as much of the year as possible.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I’m sure Billy Donovan never ran up the score at Florida.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

In Bill Simmons' pod today, he suggested a tweak to make the IST round robin 5 groups of 6 teams and play 5 games instead of 4. Because of the bottleneck of teams with identical records (3-1), the point differential REALLY came into play, and the chance of many teams with the same record will decrease with one more game. The odd number of groups would also remove the strict conference alignment which I am in favor of removing as well. I can get on board with this idea.

 

[benhogan]

They would have played two teams that didn’t make the knockout round. It would have been an easier group for sure. They get Indiana and then either Milwaukee or the Knicks.

For example, Philly didn’t make it and they now play Washington and Atlanta.

I'm guessing the C's will now play Indy 5x and either the Knicks or Milwaukee 5X this season. I guess you could argue The Celtics play a slightly harder schedule.

I just took a look at Philly & Boston's updated schedules.
Philly gets ATL & WASH 4X this season, the Celtics also play ATL & WASH 4X each

According to the commercials on NBATV, AWS (Amazon) has supercomputers figuring out the NBA schedule so no worries we're in good hands.

Artificial Intelligence weeeeeee

 

[InstaFace]

My only quibble with the IST is I wish they’d do away with east vs west once they get to the knockout round. We already get this structure for the playoffs and all the teams playing in the next round will now play 5 times this year. They should just reseed 1-8 and play from there.

I'd agree with you for the semis, but not for the quarters. They already build the schedule such that the cross-country trips have a series of several (for an east coast team) west coast destinations in series, before returning home. A random one-off where Boston has to fly to Los Angeles and then back again a day or so later is going to create grumbling where there need not be any. That all goes out the window for Vegas though, where imo there's nothing wrong with cross-conference semifinals, even if that leads to a same-conference finals. But Adam Silver needs these games to count as regular season games, so any cross-conference games before the final make it a 3rd scheduled inter-conference game between those two teams, uniquely among the league, which probably creates competitive balance issues and more grumbling.

Ideal for Silver is the situation where QFs and SFs are same-conference but out-of-division. They should be able to re-seed the knockouts to avoid in-division games if any shuffling would alleviate it.

 

[mostman]

Teams can end up with an unbalanced home/away schedule right? Did fans buy tickets to games that now don’t exist? I suppose that’s like the playoffs.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Celtics vs Bucks or Knicks in Vegas would be on the same night as Pats at Steelers.

We should all pray for this to happen then.

 

[The Social Chair]

Silver has to be happy. LA, New York, and Boston are in the tournament, and he gets to use Lebron, Durant, Tatum, and Zion in the ads.

 

[lovegtm]

Silver has to be happy. LA, New York, and Boston are in the tournament, and he gets to use Lebron, Durant, Tatum, and Zion in the ads.

Not to mention Giannis and Dame too. Worked out pretty well for the league, although they probably would have liked Steph to be there.

 

[InstaFace]

Yeah, watching Billy Donovan and the Bulls get all pissy when the Cs started fouling Drummond was worth the whole tourney for me. Lol boo hoo, indeed. Sorry your crappy team has to try not to get rolled by 40.

I couldn't believe when it was happening, it was absolutely hysterical that they went to it. And absolutely appropriate. That Billy Donovan didn't care for it was the cherry on top, but tops for me was the sheer willingness to go to that (and that it worked, Drummond 0-for-4 FTs on those two possessions). Scalabrine was right on top of it, too - "don't tell me Joe doesn't know the score! Don't tell me he's not doing everything he can to advance!"

If you needed any more evidence that these games are closer to playoff games than regular season games in terms of mentality (which tbf was in doubt at the start - players could've chosen just to treat them like any other game), that episode is now an easy thing to point to.

 

[InstaFace]

Shaughnessy (I know) threw up all over the concept in his scathing “thought” column. Unfortunately, his take will get repeated as nauseum on local sports talk.

Another happy consequence of how well the IST has worked out so far: egg on Shank's face.

 

[jon abbey]

Four teams made both the final 8 (second round) in last year's playoffs and this final 8:

BOS
NYK
LAL
PHO

 

[benhogan]

It seems like some players/fans didn't like the POINT DIFFERENTIAL tiebreaker system.

I'm fine with using point differential, BUT my favorite alternative is to use the regular season record as a TIEBREAKER.

So the Magic would have made it over the Knicks and Wolves over the Suns.

The NBA got 95% of the variables right with the IST (a handful of bright floor colors/floor texture issues aside) so Adam Silver should get an A here.

Imagine it has had a very positive effect on broadcast rights negotiations

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

I couldn't believe when it was happening, it was absolutely hysterical that they went to it. And absolutely appropriate. That Billy Donovan didn't care for it was the cherry on top, but tops for me was the sheer willingness to go to that (and that it worked, Drummond 0-for-4 FTs on those two possessions). Scalabrine was right on top of it, too - "don't tell me Joe doesn't know the score! Don't tell me he's not doing everything he can to advance!"

Not linking to Twitter, but Jay King said that Donovan didn’t understand the wild card mechanic and thought the C’s only needed 23; the conversation was Mazzulla explaining. Also said he apologized to Drummond after the game. The point differential thing was fun but weird and the players/coaches don’t seem to like it.

I wonder if a slight adjustment where a three-way tie is resolved by point differential among the teams tied would fix it. (In that scenario, Brooklyn would have advanced at +6 vs. BOS and ORL, while BOS and ORL were both -3). That could maintain intensity against the top teams while not forcing massacres* against the bottom. No idea how to break a wild card tie then.

*edit: the more I think about it, the games among teams tied were all pretty close; so the overall point differential is just a question of who can beat the shit out of the worst teams the most. Which does seem a bit unsporting.

 

[lovegtm]

It seems like some players/fans didn't like the POINT DIFFERENTIAL tiebreaker system.

I'm fine with using point differential, BUT my favorite alternative is to use the regular season record as a TIEBREAKER.

So the Magic would have made it over the Knicks and Wolves over the Suns.

The NBA got 95% of the variables right with the IST (a handful of bright floor colors/floor texture issues aside) so Adam Silver should get an A here.

Imagine it has had a very positive effect on broadcast rights negotiations

After how good last night's action was, it seems insane to me to not want to use point differential.

And entertainment argument aside, I really like that the tourney is its own self-contained thing. Not linking it to regular season record, playoff slots, or draft picks was genius by the league. It's quickly acquiring intrinsic value as a result of that decision.

 

[InstaFace]

OK so, I got a bit of a format / scheduling question.

The notion with the unscheduled games during the IST knockouts was that most teams would get their last 2 games scheduled, ideally based on the in-conference but out-of-division teams they don't already play a full 4 times. As you all know, in a normal NBA schedule, you play 4 games (2 home, 2 away) in-division, 2 games (1 home, 1 away) vs the other conference, and then either 3 or 4 games vs the in-conference but out-of-division teams. For the 80 scheduled games the Celtics have, the eastern-conference out-of-division teams who we only have 3 games against as of now were: Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago / Miami, Charlotte, Orlando. The ideal outcome / default expectation would've been, getting 1 additional game against each division, so one from each of those groups, one of which was home and the other away.

Welp, of those 6 teams it would've been convenient / balanced to schedule against, zero ended up making the knockout rounds. Instead, we play @ Indy (out-of-division but already have 4 games scheduled against them) next Monday at 7:30pm for our 81st game, and then we'll play one of Milwaukee (out-of-division but have 4 games already) or NY Knicks (in-division) as our 82nd game - as a semifinal in Vegas if we win @ Pacers, or vs the loser of their game, probably at home, if we lose.

This presents a few dilemmas to the NBA league office, which I imagine they must have a plan for, but I haven't seen public discussion of:

(1) The other Eastern QF game is NYK @ Milwaukee. Suppose Boston and the Knicks, the two road teams, both win. Then both teams are effectively giving up a home game in exchange for a Vegas semifinal game. Does this affect the fans at all? Do Boston and NY season-ticket-holders get priority for the Vegas tickets? Do we get half of the gate? If Milwaukee were to win at home instead, would we get 100% of the gate, in replacement of our 41st home game?

(2) Conversely, suppose both Boston and the Knicks lose, and both home teams win. Then for our 82nd game, we get a 5th game against the Knicks, on Fri Dec 8th. Both teams would have played their 81st game as a road game, so they'd be expecting a home game. Instead, one of them will end up playing on the road, having 42 total road games and 40 total home games that year, and the other gets a 42nd home game. (and likewise for the Western conference). How is the league office compensating for that? Are they splitting the gate? Changing venue for a game against another team so-affected, swapping who's home and road to re-balance it?

(3) Finally, this ad-hoc scheduling would've worked out nicely if the team pairs with only 3 games between them had ended up either advancing or not advancing, but instead we're going to get a lot of 5th-matchup games. But alternatively, you could probably find spots in the schedule to swap opponents, where for example if we end up playing the Knicks (in the SF or as a consolation game), then on one of the other nights we're scheduled to play the Knicks in the rest of the season, identify two in-conference teams playing each other, one of whom Boston only has 3 games against, and the other of whom New York only has 3 games against, and change the schedule so that instead of those two matchups, they get swapped to 4th-games against those other two teams. There may not be many options for that which would satisfy all criteria, but I guess the question is, would the league look at switching out opponents in order to incrementally re-balance the schedule, even if the game were months away, or do they consider those things sacred and worry that some fans have bought tickets assuming they'd get to see (e.g.) Boston vs New York specifically?

Let me know if you guys either know what the league plans to do, or offer an opinion on what they should do (which might be "nothing, who cares, everyone's getting paid"). I have absolutely no idea on the latter. Personally, I like balanced schedules where possible, but in an 82-game season where more than half the league makes the playoffs, I think any overall slant or effect is small. But if there's an opportunity to re-balance things a bit, I'd rather notify fans of a change months in advance and go do it if you can. Maybe you can't, but at least try. As for the teams giving up a home game (or getting an extra one), I have to imagine they have some sort of revenue-sharing plan to make everyone whole.

 

[Euclis20]

Not linking to Twitter, but Jay King said that Donovan didn’t understand the wild card mechanic and thought the C’s only needed 23; the conversation was Mazzulla explaining. Also said he apologized to Drummond after the game. The point differential thing was fun but weird and the players/coaches don’t seem to like it.

I wonder if a slight adjustment where a three-way tie is resolved by point differential among the teams tied would fix it. (In that scenario, Brooklyn would have advanced at +6 vs. BOS and ORL, while BOS and ORL were both -3). That could maintain intensity against the top teams while not forcing massacres* against the bottom. No idea how to break a wild card tie then.

*edit: the more I think about it, the games among teams tied were all pretty close; so the overall point differential is just a question of who can beat the shit out of the worst teams the most. Which does seem a bit unsporting.

Unsporting? I get that it felt awkward because everyone was involved in something they've literally never done before, this isn't little league. The Bulls are paying their team $167M this year (plus whatever Donovan and his staff make), if these professionals want to get deep in their feelings because the better team is still trying, I can't conjure up an ounce of sympathy.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

If you needed any more evidence that these games are closer to playoff games than regular season games in terms of mentality (which tbf was in doubt at the start - players could've chosen just to treat them like any other game), that episode is now an easy thing to point to.

The fact we have a 14-page thread on random NBA games in November is all of the evidence I needed.

Oh, and my 13 YO son sat down and watched the 4Q of a blowout while asking me at the same time, "How many points does BOS need / Can you check the BRK score again?" is a pretty good barometer as well.

 

[Euclis20]

Lots to learn this year and to take forward, but the biggest one IMO has to be scheduling. It would mean ensuring there are an even number of teams in each group, but they have to find a way to make sure that all teams play their final game at the same time. The only team that should be annoyed about last night's Celtics/Bulls game are the Magic - It's one thing to say "point differential counts, go all out for the full 48," but it was a major competitive advantage for Boston to know exactly how many points they needed to get past Orlando.

 

[NomarsFool]

I strongly disagree with the bolded (re dunks and 3s). Scoring more points than your opponent is the core mechanic of basketball, and there are a lot of different stylistic ways to get there. For example, while the Celtics sought out variance by launching 3s early, they also locked in on D for 4 quarters, to a degree we've rarely seen this year. It's exciting.

I know point differential is unheard of for the NBA, but I think it did make for exciting basketball. I think it was more just a random chance that in this particular game, the needed point differential was large and it was a game when such a differential was possible. So, I think in most circumstances, it won't come down to trying to run up the score.

The only thing I didn't particularly like was the hack-Drummond strategy. That didn't feel particularly right to me. I have no issue with the Celtics playing their starters and trying hard to play well. It's actually good for both teams to be trying to compete as much as possible until the final buzzer. It is entertainment, after all, and just because the game is won doesn't mean the fans should have to suffer watching bench players and/or players just loafing off for a quarter.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Unsporting? I get that it felt awkward because everyone was involved in something they've literally never done before, this isn't little league. The Bulls are paying their team $167M this year (plus whatever Donovan and his staff make), if these professionals want to get deep in their feelings because the better team is still trying, I can't conjure up an ounce of sympathy.

Agreed. These are professionals and they are all constantly auditioning for their next roster spot. Also, even if teams are grossly mismatched on talent, the point differential aspect means the weaker team can still play hard and "hurt" the better team. That seems like a better competitive and career option than simply letting teams steamroll you.

This is the NBA and maybe the players parents/superfans get upset. But nobody should be protecting professional athletes (or audiences) from the trauma of blow-outs.

 

[NomarsFool]

And entertainment argument aside, I really like that the tourney is its own self-contained thing. Not linking it to regular season record, playoff slots, or draft picks was genius by the league. It's quickly acquiring intrinsic value as a result of that decision.

Well, personally, I would have liked to see some sort of draft incentive for the winning team. For example, the winning team gets X number of lottery ping pong balls, regardless of record at the end of the year. Money is nice for the players, of course, but means nothing for the team.

 

[Euclis20]

Agreed. These are professionals and they are all constantly auditioning for their next roster spot. Also, even if teams are grossly mismatched on talent, the point differential aspect means the weaker team can still play hard and "hurt" the better team. That seems like a better competitive and career option than simply letting teams steamroll you.

This is the NBA and maybe the players parents/superfans get upset. But nobody should be protecting professional athletes (or audiences) from the trauma of blow-outs.

The other difference between the NBA and amateur leagues (beyond the pay), there is no way that two teams are so mismatched from a talent perspective that one team should win by 30+ on the regular. I do believe that despite Chicago's continued mediocrity, last night was their first lost of more than 22 points this season. When a team struggles to keep the score even that close, it's about effort as much as anything. I have even less sympathy for the team that stops trying.

 

[snowmanny]

I’ll tell you something I liked about the point differential: watching the Celtics play with intensity for (nearly) 48 minutes. There was no 25 point lead that dwindled to 8 or any of that crap.

That’s how they are going to play this spring.


I hope.

 

[Euclis20]

Well, personally, I would have liked to see some sort of draft incentive for the winning team. For example, the winning team gets X number of lottery ping pong balls, regardless of record at the end of the year. Money is nice for the players, of course, but means nothing for the team.

More money/interest in the league is good for the team, that's certain.

Haliburton suggested a few weeks ago that the winning team be given an automatic playoff berth. That's a bit much, but I don't hate the idea of the winner getting at least a spot in their conference's play in games. Honestly halfway through the first season of this, it seems unlikely that any team that wins it would be bad enough to not get a playoff spot on their own merits.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

In a normal regular season game, if the Bulls knocked down a few 3's late while down 27, it would be a "so what". I would like to imagine, though, that when the bench crew went in, they were told that they were up 6 points, and needed to at least hold that lead, if not expand it-- which is a great experience for those guys.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Well, personally, I would have liked to see some sort of draft incentive for the winning team. For example, the winning team gets X number of lottery ping pong balls, regardless of record at the end of the year. Money is nice for the players, of course, but means nothing for the team.

I’m with you. Give the winning team a compensatory pick at the end of the first round. Could probably up the player pool too, I’m guessing.

 

[snowmanny]

Hey, was Toronto trying to throw the point differential in Brooklyn’s favor at the end of last night’s game? And if so, was that specifically because of resentment at Boston?

I saw some stuff alluding to that but wasn’t watching.

 

[Euclis20]

Hey, was Toronto trying to throw the point differential in Brooklyn’s favor at the end of last night’s game? And if so, was that specifically because of resentment at Boston?

I saw some stuff alluding to that but wasn’t watching.

It did feel like that for a moment. Brooklyn was up 8 with 38 seconds left (basically game over), then they scored 7 more points in 30 seconds (multiple take fouls), and were only 4 points away from Boston with 6 seconds left. Toronto did hit a 3 in the closing seconds to stretch the margin a tad. I had just turned the game on and wasn't immediately sure which team had taken (and made) the final 3, and was doing quick math in my head.

 

[NoXInNixon]

In Bill Simmons' pod today, he suggested a tweak to make the IST round robin 5 groups of 6 teams and play 5 games instead of 4. Because of the bottleneck of teams with identical records (3-1), the point differential REALLY came into play, and the chance of many teams with the same record will decrease with one more game. The odd number of groups would also remove the strict conference alignment which I am in favor of removing as well. I can get on board with this idea.

With 5 games, you can't balance home/away. Unless you make one game for each team neutral site. But that creates problems because someone will lose a home game and these also count as regular season games.

 

[NomarsFool]

More money/interest in the league is good for the team, that's certain.

Haliburton suggested a few weeks ago that the winning team be given an automatic playoff berth. That's a bit much, but I don't hate the idea of the winner getting at least a spot in their conference's play in games. Honestly halfway through the first season of this, it seems unlikely that any team that wins it would be bad enough to not get a playoff spot on their own merits.

The playoff thing could screw things up at the end of the season, though - although maybe it could make things even more interesting. Or maybe the winner of the tourney gets automatic home court advantage for the whole playoffs, regardless of record. I think I like that a bit more.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

Unsporting? I get that it felt awkward because everyone was involved in something they've literally never done before, this isn't little league. The Bulls are paying their team $167M this year (plus whatever Donovan and his staff make), if these professionals want to get deep in their feelings because the better team is still trying, I can't conjure up an ounce of sympathy.

Fair enough. As a fan, I definitely have no sympathy when teams get hurt about their opponents playing hard. That's not quite what I was trying to say. Of the games with real implications last night, I felt like the Celtics/Bulls game was interesting and exciting in an All Star game adjacent sort of way, but not particularly great basketball. Particularly once it got up to about +30, starting with the Drummond hacking and going to the end, the game got pretty flaky. The Warriors/Kings and Bucks/Heat were much better games.

I have no idea if it would work schedule wise, but I think it would be better if they could schedule the group games by seed so that the games most likely to have implications for the next round were played at the end. Obviously previous season record wouldn't have led to Orland play Boston later, but a Brooklyn/Boston game last night might have been (even) more playoff-like. Win or go home just seems like a better mechanic than beat this shitty team by 29 or go home; any tweaks to make the former more likely seem good.

 

[benhogan]

Hey, was Toronto trying to throw the point differential in Brooklyn’s favor at the end of last night’s game? And if so, was that specifically because of resentment at Boston?

I saw some stuff alluding to that but wasn’t watching.

That would be something DS would pull but
Toronto played hard until the final buzzer. There was zero point shaving

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Silver has to be happy. LA, New York, and Boston are in the tournament, and he gets to use Lebron, Durant, Tatum, and Zion in the ads.

I cannot get enough of the full Imperioli/Oceans Eleven's ad. Pure brilliance on display by NBA marketing. Draymond was made for his role!

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

With 5 games, you can't balance home/away. Unless you make one game for each team neutral site. But that creates problems because someone will lose a home game and these also count as regular season games.

Fair point. You could give the extra home game to the top 3 in each bracket based on the previous season's records, but things can change a lot year to year. The league tried arranging the groups so there was a distinct 1A in each, but it is still a WAG.

 

[Ale Xander]

Celtics @ Pacers.

No home game? Boooo

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I’ll tell you something I liked about the point differential: watching the Celtics play with intensity for (nearly) 48 minutes. There was no 25 point lead that dwindled to 8 or any of that crap.

That’s how they are going to play this spring.


I hope.

It would be amazing if the Cs learned how to play better with leads because of this.

I’m with you. Give the winning team a compensatory pick at the end of the first round. Could probably up the player pool too, I’m guessing.

That would be interesting but it's more of an owner/fan benefit than a player benefit. Seems to me that if the players are playing hard just for the $500K, the incentives are fine. Maybe throw some money at the runner-ups too once this takes off.

 

[benhogan]

make sure that all teams play their final game at the same time. The only team that should be annoyed about last night's Celtics/Bulls game are the Magic - It's one thing to say "point differential counts, go all out for the full 48," but it was a major competitive advantage for Boston to know exactly how many points they needed to get past Orlando.

100% agree here.

Orlando got slighted, to Boston/Brooklyn's benefit

I imagine teams will be more "final score/point differential" cognizant during ALL the group-stage games next year. Which will only create more interest/excitement. POINT DIFFERENTIAL is here to stay.

Frankly, we all follow Celtic hoops to the Nth degree around here and can't recall anyone making an issue of dribbling out the clock against Orlando, Brooklyn, & Toronto. My mea culpa, post Orlando game I remember thinking damn the C's are behind 8-Ball in point differential now, but wasn't terribly concerned about it prior to that outcome.

If I have time maybe I'll go through this thread and give credit where credit is due if somebody was hand-wringing early about point differential.

 

[slamminsammya]

I find the suggestions to add extra incentive to the in season tournament wrongheaded. as it is it's a Kantian end in itself, which players value because it's a competition and they are competitors. if you make it have a treat at the end towards some future competition then it becomes instrumental. which I don't like.

caveat that yes, they do dangle the monetary bonuses for winners.