No more Pat Patriot uniforms?/Helmet Thread

tims4wins · Sep 19, 2013

jercra said:
So when the Headset/Mic in the QB or MLB's helmet stops working and you see them swap out the helmet for a different one is that not also a custom fit helmet? Are the players under a greater risk of injury when that happens? If not, I'll echo everyone else's sentiments and ask why they couldn't have 4 of them or 6 or 10?

Right, if it is just based on calibrations / measurements, it shouldn't be difficult to reproduce the same helmet in a different color

Dogman · Sep 19, 2013

drleather2001 said:
Eh. Some are pretty good, some are pretty bad (49ers, Cowboys, Vikings).

Mostly, though, almost all of them are too busy; too many fine details that would look awful off of a computer screen and placed on a uniform or piece of clothing.

Also, they are very stylistically of the moment. That is, in 10 years, they will all look incredibly dated, and smack of the "dark, gritty, realism" that is really hip right now (See, e.g. Chris Nolan's movies).

Well, man, that's like just your opinion, man.

Man.

moondog80 · Sep 19, 2013

drleather2001 said:
Really? How about this for motivation: Do something ostensibly in the name of safety that will cause a lot of press leading up to the week's games, and that the broadcasters will talk about, so the fans think we care about safety, but that won't impact revenue at all.

Don't the alternate helmets help stimulate sales of the throwback stuff? And is this really generating a lot of press? I dunno, I find it easier believe that with a lot of attention paid to fitting a helmet specific for each player, they'd rather stick with just one helmet if at all possible.

Lose Remerswaal · Sep 19, 2013

moondog80 said:
Don't the alternate helmets help stimulate sales of the throwback stuff? And is this really generating a lot of press? I dunno, I find it easier believe that with a lot of attention paid to fitting a helmet specific for each player, they'd rather stick with just one helmet if at all possible.

and yet multiple colleges use 3, 4, or even 5 or more different helmets during a season

moondog80 · Sep 19, 2013

Lose Remerswaal said:
and yet multiple colleges use 3, 4, or even 5 or more different helmets during a season

So two completely separate organizations have to deal with every issue the exact same way? Obviously it's possible to use different helmets, but the NFL is being a bit more cautious.

Lose Remerswaal · Sep 20, 2013

Paul Lukas with an NFL equipment guy discussing theories on this move

EG: I think that's the big message that the NFL's trying to give. But I think, personally, one of the bigger issues is that there are currently guys in the NFL -- on our team, on every team -- who wear helmets that aren't made anymore, like the Riddell VSR4. Riddell doesn't make that helmet anymore. So whatever we have in stock is what we give to players who like that helmet. And after this year, we're going to run out, so players will eventually have to switch to something else.
UW: But what does that have to do with the new rule?
EG: Let's say you're a team with a throwback helmet, and you're not going to be able to get a certain player his preferred helmet model because it's not made anymore. So now he's not just wearing a different helmet -- he's wearing a different type of helmet. I think the NFL, with all those lawsuits they're dealing with, they don't want to have a guy switching to a different helmet for one game, then he gets hurt, and then he says, "Well, I had to switch to a different helmet because they made us wear these throwbacks."
UW: That's really interesting. So you're saying the NFL is concerned about players who wouldn't be able to get a true duplicate of their current helmet because they're wearing obsolete equipment.
EG: I think that's their bigger concern, yes. They don't want a situation where a player has to change to a different model, and then something goes wrong, and that's on their plate. Now, again, that problem will soon go away, at least for our team, because we'll run out of stock on those helmets that aren't made anymore. But other teams may have more stock on those.

dcdrew10 · Sep 20, 2013

Lose Remerswaal said:
Paul Lukas with an NFL equipment guy discussing theories on this move

Brady is one the guys who wears the VSR-4, hence him wearing different helmet when the Pat's use the throwbacks. He has tinkered with new helmets before, but he seems to prefer the VSR-4, despite it's low rating and less padding between the head and shell, less jaw coverage and no padding around the jaw. I've also seen comments that the newer helmets cover more of the back of the head. Brady is going to have to give this helmet up next year or so, but helmet fit is obviously a big deal if he is willing to use an, older less effective model.

tims4wins · Sep 20, 2013

dcdrew10 said:
Brady is one the guys who wears the VSR-4, hence him wearing different helmet when the Pat's use the throwbacks. He has tinkered with new helmets before, but he seems to prefer the VSR-4, despite it's low rating and less padding between the head and shell, less jaw coverage and no padding around the jaw. I've also seen comments that the newer helmets cover more of the back of the head. Brady is going to have to give this helmet up next year or so, but helmet fit is obviously a big deal if he is willing to use an, older less effective model.

Interesting article. Granted it was 2 years ago but I can't believe the NFL allows each player to choose their helmet manufacturer - a league that puts its foot down on everything, and is (at least to the public) trying to show an increased interest in player safety, should have a mandated list of 3 or 4 approved helmets that meet a certain rating criteria. It's hypocritical of the NFL to not do something like this, IMO (but hey, what's new).

Leather · Sep 20, 2013

dcdrew10 said:
Brady is one the guys who wears the VSR-4, hence him wearing different helmet when the Pat's use the throwbacks. He has tinkered with new helmets before, but he seems to prefer the VSR-4, despite it's low rating and less padding between the head and shell, less jaw coverage and no padding around the jaw. I've also seen comments that the newer helmets cover more of the back of the head. Brady is going to have to give this helmet up next year or so, but helmet fit is obviously a big deal if he is willing to use an, older less effective model.

Why can't players such as Brady simply buy a half-dozen of the VSR-4 (or however many that are still available) and just use them for the next 4 or 5 years?

OCST · Sep 20, 2013

This whole thing is over a concern for the perception of safety, not for actual safety.

The idea that players get to choose their own helmet is insane. I fully get that players may prefer one over the other for fit, comfort, ability to see, etc. I'm pretty sure, though, that there are engineering studies that show that Helmet X is safer than Helmet Y. If that's the case, then X should be mandatory, tough titty if you don't like it.

Rudi Fingers · Sep 20, 2013

OilCanShotTupac said:
This whole thing is over a concern for the perception of safety, not for actual safety.

The idea that players get to choose their own helmet is insane. I fully get that players may prefer one over the other for fit, comfort, ability to see, etc. I'm pretty sure, though, that there are engineering studies that show that Helmet X is safer than Helmet Y. If that's the case, then X should be mandatory, tough titty if you don't like it.

I wonder, from a QB's perspective, if some of the helmets that are safer in terms of impact create more of a cocoon effect which makes them feel less safe -- for example, making it more difficult to not just see, but also hear and feel pressure coming in from the blind side.

tims4wins · Sep 20, 2013

RedOctober3829 said:
As I've explained before, there is not one helmet that will fit every person. That's just not how it works. It's not just "tough titty" and wear it if you don't like it. That would open up liability issues.

Fine, but couldn't there be 3 or 4 approved helmets that pass the safety criteria, instead of it being completely open to the player to choose?

tims4wins · Sep 20, 2013

RedOctober3829 said:
There are helmet ratings put out from the Virginia Tech study that we go off of.

Right, so couldn't / shouldn't the NFL approve a handful of these helmets, and then give the players their choice among the approved helmets? If Brady's helmet gets a 1 I don't think it's in anyone's interest for him to wear it, even if he likes it best.

The lone exception I can think of was mentioned above - if other helmets are more obstructive to his peripheral vision / hearing and are therefore more likely to lead to hits (especially from the blind side), then there could be a safety benefit to a poorly rated helmet.

tims4wins · Sep 20, 2013

RedOctober3829 said:
They should ban the VSR-4, but it has to come from NOSCAE first. No one below the NFL vets use it anymore. No college equipment guy worth his salt would have one on his shelf let alone put it on a kid.

The helmet wouldn't restrict your vision. The type of mask would and there are many different masks that fit a particular helmet.

Thanks. So what you're saying is that the NFL really doesn't have a good excuse as to why these helmets aren't banned.

tims4wins · Sep 20, 2013

RedOctober3829 said:
What I'm saying is that the NFL can't ban a helmet without having NOSCAE(national governing body of athletic eq standards) telling them definitively that's its 100% unsafe.

Ah thanks. Misread your post.

tims4wins · Sep 24, 2013

moondog80 said:
So two completely separate organizations have to deal with every issue the exact same way? Obviously it's possible to use different helmets, but the NFL is being a bit more cautious.

Speak of the devil

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9716220/virginia-tech-wear-special-hokie-stone-helmets-georgia-tech

Oh and they are hideous to boot

After saluting the military with a special camouflage helmet, the Virginia Tech Hokies are ready to rock out for Thursday night's game against Georgia Tech.

Leather · Sep 24, 2013

Hokey is right.

simplyeric · Oct 13, 2013

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Something is awry on this topic because I just watched Brady switch out his helmet.

I mentioned that in the game thread. His radio communication goes out and suddenly it's the salmon mousse out there, because clearly those are Highlander helmets: there can be only one!!!

tims4wins · Oct 17, 2013

Oregon to wear pink helmets

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9837723/oregon-ducks-wear-pink-helmets-vs-washington-state-cougars

Glad we are protecting the college players' brains so well...

Lose Remerswaal · Oct 17, 2013

Many college teams wear 2, 3, or even more helmets.

Makes no sense.

kenneycb · Oct 17, 2013

It does for recruiting. High schoolers are distracted by these new shiny objects.

swiftaw · Nov 3, 2013

It certainly looks like the Rams aren't wearing their usual helmets with their throwbacks today (although it does look like Washington is wearing their usual helmets with their throwbacks)

Lose Remerswaal · Nov 4, 2013

They changed the decals on the helmets, but kept the same shells.

simplyeric · Nov 4, 2013

Lose Remerswaal said:
They changed the decals on the helmets, but kept the same shells.

unpossible!

Section30 · Feb 25, 2015

Paul Bunyan Design updating 32 team helmets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/designer-gives-all-32-nfl-helmets-a-bold-makeover-slideshow/new-york-giants-photo-1424813121115.html

Leather · Feb 25, 2015

Those are awful.

However, after the 'Skins and the Lions, the Patriots helmet might be the best.

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) · Feb 25, 2015

It seems that most of their design ideas were just, "Make the Logo Bigger" pretty lame.

Although I do like the Patriots one. They remind me of the helmets that Navy sometimes wears, I always really liked these:

gingerbreadmann · Feb 25, 2015

It always bothers me when one of these "makeovers" hits the mainstream media. I used to be a frequent poster at the CCSLC and there is always work there that is eons better than whatever Yahoo or Reddit or whatever decides to pick up on. Highly recommended for logo/uni design enthusiasts.

Harry Hooper · Feb 25, 2015

I couldn't figure out the "Windows" motif on the Jets one, until I realized it was just reflections from the room the helmet was in.

Hoya81 · Feb 25, 2015

Fan made from reddit:

http://m.imgur.com/GmIAxDv

GeorgeCostanza · Feb 25, 2015

Section30 said:
Paul Bunyan Design updating 32 team helmets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/designer-gives-all-32-nfl-helmets-a-bold-makeover-slideshow/new-york-giants-photo-1424813121115.html]http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/designer-gives-all-32-nfl-helmets-a-bold-makeover-slideshow/new-york-giants-photo-1424813121115.html[/url]

Guessing that's supposed to be cheese but I get much more of a SpongeBob vibe there.

Kevin Youkulele · Feb 25, 2015

GeorgeCostanza said:
Guessing that's supposed to be cheese but I get much more of a SpongeBob vibe there.

My first thought was measles. Too much red.

dynomite · Feb 25, 2015

Hoya81 said:
Fan made from reddit:

http://m.imgur.com/GmIAxDv

So long as Kraft is the owner the Patriots are never going to wear red as their primary uniform -- I believe he said something about finding it inappropriate for the New England Patriots to wear the color most associated with the English troops in the Revolutionary War.

Section30 · Feb 25, 2015

GeorgeCostanza said:
Guessing that's supposed to be cheese but I get much more of a SpongeBob vibe there.

Well, if it brings in the young fans.

Conversely it may be a subtle comment on the brains of football players.

Leather · Feb 25, 2015

dynomite said:
So long as Kraft is the owner the Patriots are never going to wear red as their primary uniform -- I believe he said something about finding it inappropriate for the New England Patriots to wear the color most associated with the English troops in the Revolutionary War.

That's fine, but then they should consider ditching the silver for a colonial off-white.

NortheasternPJ · Feb 25, 2015

dynomite said:
So long as Kraft is the owner the Patriots are never going to wear red as their primary uniform -- I believe he said something about finding it inappropriate for the New England Patriots to wear the color most associated with the English troops in the Revolutionary War.

You said the same thing back in the End Zone logo thread a couple years ago. I've never heard this outside of your posts. I'm not saying you're wrong but I can't find any reference.

I thought it was always due to the fact the red uni's were a time when the team was not any good. Kraft started over when he took over and doesn't want to go back.

when I googled this earlier, your post is the only top hit that has anything to do with the New England Patriots:
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/78357-patriots-will-have-new-end-zone-logo/page-2

Rudi Fingers · Feb 25, 2015

dynomite said:
So long as Kraft is the owner the Patriots are never going to wear red as their primary uniform -- I believe he said something about finding it inappropriate for the New England Patriots to wear the color most associated with the English troops in the Revolutionary War.

Kraft never said that - it was Orthwein who said that at the press conference announcing the new blue uniforms.

ivanvamp · Feb 25, 2015

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
It seems that most of their design ideas were just, "Make the Logo Bigger" pretty lame.

Although I do like the Patriots one. They remind me of the helmets that Navy sometimes wears, I always really liked these:

That Navy helmet is freaking awesome.

dynomite · Feb 25, 2015

Weird. I just googled and can't find it, and -- most damning of all -- the team changed their uniforms PRIOR to the 1993 season, but Kraft didn't purchase the team until AFTER the 1993 season. Still, I have a distinct memory of hearing/reading Kraft talk about how the red uniform color never made sense to him for that reason.

Still, this article gives the same reason: http://www.thesunchronicle.com/sports/patriots-set-to-cross-the-pond/article_5758bc22-efe6-5514-8491-9cd3723f7961.html

It's odd, but I can't find any articles about the uniform change generally. Will try to keep searching.

Edit: Ah ha:

Rudi Fingers said:
Kraft never said that - it was Orthwein who said that at the press conference announcing the new blue uniforms.

That makes sense. I still recall Kraft saying he agreed or expressing a similar sentiment.

NortheasternPJ · Feb 25, 2015

RedOctober3829 said:
The only reason they don't wear the Pat Patriot uniform is because the NFL does not allow them to switch out of their primary helmets anymore.

We're talking about the Pats using the red uniforms as their primary uniforms, not on Throwback Day/ Weekend.

E5 Yaz · Feb 25, 2015

ivanvamp said:
That Navy helmet is freaking awesome.

Agreed.

No more Pat Patriot uniforms?/Helmet Thread

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