Official Patriots 2024 Draft Pick Watch Thread (#3)

[RSC3000]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Maye will be the Patriots pick. Daniels seems like a perfect fit for Klifford's offense

I would be very pleased with Maye or Daniels. There are certainly things to nit-pick with either, but both have plenty of upside and are worth the risk IMO. One thing I haven't seen a lot of in regards to Maye (beyond the lack of talent around him), was switching offensive coordinators from year 1 to year 2. Seems like an important consideration to add to the discussion as well.

If my memory serves me, Herbert wasn't a new name on the top QB prospect watch list by the time his draft year rolled around(in contrast to someone like Daniels who wasn't a consideration for a top 3 pick prior to this past season). It felt like there was some fatigue with him since he had been around and ended up sliding a bit, going as the 3rd QB in the draft (6th overall). Just to be clear, not suggesting Maye = Herbert, just that its not always clear that the hot new thing is the better choice.

Of course Joe Burrow was in that draft as well and was more of a one year wonder, and we see how that worked out. However, I can't imagine any of the teams after Bengals would have passed on Herbert in they could go back and redraft.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I've said it a thousand times, so I shouldn't say it again, but the only way the Patriots fuck this pick up is by not taking whichever QB is left.

All 3 could be studs. All 3 could be busts. Whoever we end up with may be a stud whole the other 2 bust...who knows. But this is their best chance for the next several years to end up with a franchise QB, easily the most important building block in the NFL.

Draft what's left, cross your fingers.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I've said it a thousand times, so I shouldn't say it again, but the only way the Patriots fuck this pick up is by not taking whichever QB is left.

All 3 could be studs. All 3 could be busts. Whoever we end up with may be a stud whole the other 2 bust...who knows. But this is their best chance for the next several years to end up with a franchise QB, easily the most important building block in the NFL.

Draft what's left, cross your fingers.

what about taking McCarthy 3?

Agreed that not ending up with a QB at 3 would be a royal fuckup but it wouldn’t shock me if McCarthy gets buzz about being a top 5 pick coming out of the combine.

 

[snowmanny]

Projecting, like Josh Allen?

In his final 2 seasons at WYOMING, he had a comp% of 56% and had 44tds to 21ints. The best defense he played in 2016 was Nebraska, and he had 1tds and 5ints in that game (along with 2 fumbles and 1 lost). In 2017, he played Iowa (174 yards, no tds, 2 picks), Oregon (9-24, 64 yards, 0tds, 1 pick, 2 fumbles, 1 lost) and Boise St (12-27, 131 yards, 1td and 2 picks).

Allen in college, when he wasn't fumbling, he ran for 767 yards, 12tds and a ypc of 3.2. Maye is at 1,209 yards, 16tds and a 4.0ypc.

There really is no better comp to Maye than Allen, and Maye was better than he was at just about everything in college, against better competition. I'm not saying Maye will be better than Josh Allen, or even as good as he is in the pros, because at the end of the day, you have no idea until a guy actually shows up and plays in the NFL how they will respond, but everything the detractors say about Maye could have been said twice about Allen.

Well, over the last two years Allen has 32 interceptions and 20 fumbles, and that’s caused a lot of problems for Buffalo. Granted, he has also been spectacular enough to generally do more than enough to overcome the turnovers. But the turnovers are an issue, and if Maye brings that part of the game it could all go south very fast.

That being said, nobody on the planet was more wrong about Allen than I was. He is great, and Rosen sucked.

 

[DJnVa]

I've said it a thousand times, so I shouldn't say it again, but the only way the Patriots fuck this pick up is by not taking whichever QB is left.

All 3 could be studs. All 3 could be busts. Whoever we end up with may be a stud whole the other 2 bust...who knows. But this is their best chance for the next several years to end up with a franchise QB, easily the most important building block in the NFL.

Draft what's left, cross your fingers.

Listen to the man. This is in the 18%.

 

[Bowser]

There really is no better comp to Maye than Allen, and Maye was better than he was at just about everything in college, against better competition. I'm not saying Maye will be better than Josh Allen, or even as good as he is in the pros, because at the end of the day, you have no idea until a guy actually shows up and plays in the NFL how they will respond, but everything the detractors say about Maye could have been said twice about Allen.

Well, over the last two years Allen has 32 interceptions and 20 fumbles, and that’s caused a lot of problems for Buffalo. Granted, he has also been spectacular enough to generally do more than enough to overcome the turnovers. But the turnovers are an issue, and if Maye brings that part of the game it could all go south very fast.

That being said, nobody on the planet was more wrong about Allen than I was. He is great, and Rosen sucked.

If Maye turns into Josh Allen, the pick is a homerun, period. You live with Allen's turnovers because he's so dynamic in every other way. And he seems like a class guy, too. But my guess is Maye will not be Josh Allen. He could, however, be more disciplined than Allen, and this, combined with his impressive physical tools, could make him as valuable. But that's all projection ... too much for my taste.

That said, if the Pats draft him, I'll be psyched to have a young QB with star potential, even if his chance of reaching that potential is 20%.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

It's super early but I cannot imagine the D.C. Kingsburies not taking Daniels at #2 unless they trade up to #1 to get Caleb Williams.

If the Patriots take JJ fucking McCarthy at #3 overall I will be on a ledge somewhere. Seriously doubt they do that. I'l be close to despondent if they take MHJ at #3 to then take JJ at #34 overall.

edit typos always always

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Please, please, please, no more JJ McCarthy talk. Make it stop.

 

[BaseballJones]

The only way they'll take McCarthy is if they trade out of #3, get a bunch of stuff in return, and then draft McCarthy later in the first round after the trade down.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

The only way they'll take McCarthy is if they trade out of #3, get a bunch of stuff in return, and then draft McCarthy later in the first round after the trade down.

Don't want him at all.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

People have already played with too many mock drafts. McCarthy won't be a top 3 pick.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Don't want him at all.

I'm with you. I don't get the appeal at all. Not for this team

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The Athletic did a beat writer mock draft that had the Pats trading out of 3 and (separately) trading for Fields, after Williams and Maye went 1-2.

https://theathletic.com/5287977/2024/02/22/nfl-mock-draft-falcons-patriots-justin-fields/

Trade: Falcons send No. 8, No. 43 and a 2025 first-round pick to Patriots for No. 3

8. New England Patriots (from Atlanta): Olu Fashanu, OT, Penn State

This wasn’t the initial plan. I think the Patriots want a quarterback with the third pick, so I was ready to grab Daniels, which is why I rebuffed early offers from the Giants and Falcons, letting them know it would take a silly trade offer to acquire No. 3. And then, well, a silly offer arrived from the Falcons. So we changed course, netted the Falcons’ first-round pick next year plus a second-round pick this year, and then sent our third-round pick to the Bears for Fields. We used the No. 8 pick to grab Fashanu, who fills a massive need at offensive tackle and can help protect our new quarterback.

Trade: Patriots send No. 68 to Bears for QB Justin Fields
The Patriots don’t want this rebuild to last long, and Fields helps that. They can look at this like a two-year audition for Fields to show he’s the franchise quarterback, and if not, they can use that time to build up the roster elsewhere (there are plenty of holes) before drafting a rookie in a couple of years. — Chad Graff

 

[Justthetippett]

The Athletic did a beat writer mock draft that had the Pats trading out of 3 and (separately) trading for Fields, after Williams and Maye went 1-2.

https://theathletic.com/5287977/2024/02/22/nfl-mock-draft-falcons-patriots-justin-fields/

Trade: Falcons send No. 8, No. 43 and a 2025 first-round pick to Patriots for No. 3

8. New England Patriots (from Atlanta): Olu Fashanu, OT, Penn State

This wasn’t the initial plan. I think the Patriots want a quarterback with the third pick, so I was ready to grab Daniels, which is why I rebuffed early offers from the Giants and Falcons, letting them know it would take a silly trade offer to acquire No. 3. And then, well, a silly offer arrived from the Falcons. So we changed course, netted the Falcons’ first-round pick next year plus a second-round pick this year, and then sent our third-round pick to the Bears for Fields. We used the No. 8 pick to grab Fashanu, who fills a massive need at offensive tackle and can help protect our new quarterback.

Trade: Patriots send No. 68 to Bears for QB Justin Fields
The Patriots don’t want this rebuild to last long, and Fields helps that. They can look at this like a two-year audition for Fields to show he’s the franchise quarterback, and if not, they can use that time to build up the roster elsewhere (there are plenty of holes) before drafting a rookie in a couple of years. — Chad Graff

This is a defensible approach and a nice haul for #3. I can't get past the paywall but I would have liked to know what WRs were available at #8 too. Maybe you go WR there and then try to address OT in R2, or package the two second rounders to get back into the end of R1 to do so.

 

[tims4wins]

This is a defensible approach and a nice haul for #3. I can't get past the paywall but I would have liked to know what WRs were available at #8 too. Maybe you go WR there and then try to address OT in R2, or package the two second rounders to get back into the end of R1 to do so.

I’d be fine with this approach but still wouldn’t trade 68 for Fields. I’d like to know what QBs were there at 35/43 and potentially roll the dice there. The idea of getting an OT, WR, and QB with 8/35/43 is super appealing.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

This is a defensible approach and a nice haul for #3. I can't get past the paywall but I would have liked to know what WRs were available at #8 too. Maybe you go WR there and then try to address OT in R2, or package the two second rounders to get back into the end of R1 to do so.

MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze each went between 3 and 8. Also Alt.

 

[Arroyoyo]

The only thing I’d worry about is that Daniels makes them an additional 2-3 win team in 2024 and that 2025 pick becomes ~#20 next year. That doesn’t seem like enough for me.

if I were the Patriots, I’d want more to give up on blue chip 2024 positional talent in what looks like a stacked QB and WR class.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Reiss with, as we would expect, a reasoned piece that lays out the questions and uses the experiences of other teams as guideposts
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39568366/should-patriots-draft-qb-wr-ot-no-3-trade-drake-maye-jayden-daniels-marvin-harrison-jr

 

[Cellar-Door]

Reiss with, as we would expect, a reasoned piece that lays out the questions and uses the experiences of other teams as guideposts
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39568366/should-patriots-draft-qb-wr-ot-no-3-trade-drake-maye-jayden-daniels-marvin-harrison-jr

Interesting but some of it was a little sketchy, the "should they take MHJr" section was all about the Lions picks mid-1st? That is not a good comp. When the paragraph started I thought he was going back to when they drafted Megatron at 3. He also started looking in 2021 which is weird because the Lions had the 3rd pick in 2020.... they didn't take a QB (they had Stafford) but took Jeff Okudah, who was a bust.

A bit of Reiss trying to force the issue of a team that is successful that he wanted to comp but they aren't actually a good comp for the situation. Probably because there isn't much history recently of teams taking non-QB, non-line players top 5 without their QB in place and having success.

 

[Arroyoyo]

Another part that isn’t discussed is the Patriots have a ton of cap space, with an ability to free up maybe another $20 million with relative ease, and that can be used to address some of the holes fairly quickly.

I think the team, with a reliable stopgap quarterback (Brissett?), two decent weapons in the passing game (Ridley and a high pick?), along with the re-signing of Henry and Onwenu, signing of Jonah Williams, and tagging of Duggar is competitive.

I know those are a ton of if’s, but having upwards of $85 million in space (after JC’s cut) and the third pick can make all of that happen pretty easily.

 

[Dogman]

Another part that isn’t discussed is the Patriots have a ton of cap space, with an ability to free up maybe another $20 million with relative ease, and that can be used to address some of the holes fairly quickly.

I think the team, with a reliable stopgap quarterback (Brissett?), two decent weapons in the passing game (Ridley and a high pick?), along with the re-signing of Henry and Onwenu, signing of Jonah Williams, and tagging of Duggar is competitive.

I know those are a ton of if’s, but having upwards of $85 million in space (after JC’s cut) and the third pick can make all of that happen pretty easily.

The only quibble I have with this is I would tag Onwenu this year to see how he plays while working on a long term deal for him while also drafting 2 OT and see how they develop. If one or both can slot in as starter after this year, Onwenu does not get a long term deal. I would extend Duggar now and get him out of the way.

 

[Arroyoyo]

The only quibble I have with this is I would tag Onwenu this year to see how he plays while working on a long term deal for him while also drafting 2 OT and see how they develop. If one or both can slot in as starter after this year, Onwenu does not get a long term deal. I would extend Duggar now and get him out of the way.

Agreed on this approach as well.

If the draft strategy is trade back, land a first for next year (and maybe the year after), snag Odunze or Nabers if they’re there, and if not trade back again for Worthy/Coleman/Thomas, then fill out tackle depth in R2/R3 and roll the dice on a 2nd-tier QB…they’re really improved quite a bit (long-term and short term) so long as they re-sign/sign the aforementioned guys above.

The roster actually has a decent core. There are several needs, but they have all of the capital in the world to fill them - and fill them well. They just can’t blow it by signing the Jonnu’s and Parker’s of the world.

 

[Jimbodandy]

The only quibble I have with this is I would tag Onwenu this year to see how he plays while working on a long term deal for him while also drafting 2 OT and see how they develop. If one or both can slot in as starter after this year, Onwenu does not get a long term deal. I would extend Duggar now and get him out of the way.

Absofuckinglutely.

I think that they need to draft two and retain Mike. If they work out a deal with him longer than one year (possible I guess), then they can draft one high and a project further down. If not, I'm taking two in the top four rounds.

How many meh QBs this past year alone played respectably because their OL had a great pass rush defense rate?

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Another part that isn’t discussed is the Patriots have a ton of cap space, with an ability to free up maybe another $20 million with relative ease, and that can be used to address some of the holes fairly quickly.

I think the team, with a reliable stopgap quarterback (Brissett?), two decent weapons in the passing game (Ridley and a high pick?), along with the re-signing of Henry and Onwenu, signing of Jonah Williams, and tagging of Duggar is competitive.

I know those are a ton of if’s, but having upwards of $85 million in space (after JC’s cut) and the third pick can make all of that happen pretty easily.

So the 2021 Plan? I hate this plan so much.

Buy a couple years of mediocrity and then back to the toilet? I’m all set with being the 7th seed for 2 years and back to this. I have zero interest in watching Bridge Year Competitiveness and getting the 16th or so pick for the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[j44thor]

Another part that isn’t discussed is the Patriots have a ton of cap space, with an ability to free up maybe another $20 million with relative ease, and that can be used to address some of the holes fairly quickly.

I think the team, with a reliable stopgap quarterback (Brissett?), two decent weapons in the passing game (Ridley and a high pick?), along with the re-signing of Henry and Onwenu, signing of Jonah Williams, and tagging of Duggar is competitive.

I know those are a ton of if’s, but having upwards of $85 million in space (after JC’s cut) and the third pick can make all of that happen pretty easily.

The problem is the holes they have don't align well with FA. The best OL is likely Onwenu and the best WR besides Mike Evans, who seems destined to either go back to TB or join a contender, is Calvin Ridley and Gabe Davis. Not exactly the types you want to sink a lot of $$ into and risk another 2021 where you spend $$ because you have it, not because the players are worth the premium.

You would have a much better chance rebuilding the defense through FA than the offense but at least the draft is very deep at the positions of need on offense.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

This team does not have a QB. Tackles. Playmakers on offense outside of, maybe, Stevenson. Zero good, proven tight ends. It does NOT have "a decent core." It has nothing much at all, really, EXCEPT: A top 3 pick in a draft that has three potential franchise QBs. High picks in rounds where there will likely be impact players at tackle and WR, the team's two other biggest holes.

Yes, it'll take some time to rebuild. Yes, the cupboard is bare. Take the QB.

 

[Rico Guapo]

Another part that isn’t discussed is the Patriots have a ton of cap space, with an ability to free up maybe another $20 million with relative ease, and that can be used to address some of the holes fairly quickly.

I think the team, with a reliable stopgap quarterback (Brissett?), two decent weapons in the passing game (Ridley and a high pick?), along with the re-signing of Henry and Onwenu, signing of Jonah Williams, and tagging of Duggar is competitive.

I know those are a ton of if’s, but having upwards of $85 million in space (after JC’s cut) and the third pick can make all of that happen pretty easily.

This doesn't happen very often in the NFL, if ever really, but could the Pats use their cap space to trade for a bad contract in exchange for draft picks? Russel Wilson comes to mind, those dead cap hits aren't bad in 27 and 28, but he'd eat a lot of cash in the interim which would probably be better spent on OL/WR...just thinking out loud here mostly.

 

[Mooch]

Projecting, like Josh Allen?

In his final 2 seasons at WYOMING, he had a comp% of 56% and had 44tds to 21ints. The best defense he played in 2016 was Nebraska, and he had 1tds and 5ints in that game (along with 2 fumbles and 1 lost). In 2017, he played Iowa (174 yards, no tds, 2 picks), Oregon (9-24, 64 yards, 0tds, 1 pick, 2 fumbles, 1 lost) and Boise St (12-27, 131 yards, 1td and 2 picks).

Allen in college, when he wasn't fumbling, he ran for 767 yards, 12tds and a ypc of 3.2. Maye is at 1,209 yards, 16tds and a 4.0ypc.

There really is no better comp to Maye than Allen, and Maye was better than he was at just about everything in college, against better competition. I'm not saying Maye will be better than Josh Allen, or even as good as he is in the pros, because at the end of the day, you have no idea until a guy actually shows up and plays in the NFL how they will respond, but everything the detractors say about Maye could have been said twice about Allen.

I think you need to adjust for the fact that Allen was playing with mid-tier Mountain West teammates in a HEAVY run-first offense (which really centered around Brian Hill more than Allen) vs. Maye playing with mid-tier ACC teammates in a more traditional mix of run/pass. Apples to oranges.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think you need to adjust for the fact that Allen was playing with mid-tier Mountain West teammates in a HEAVY run-first offense (which really centered around Brian Hill more than Allen) vs. Maye playing with mid-tier ACC teammates in a more traditional mix of run/pass. Apples to oranges.

Josh Allen was also terrible in college on tape (and his first year in the NFL) he had no clue what he was doing. He's one of the bigger development outliers, he was super super raw.

 

[RedOctober3829]

So I've been watching some games of Drake Maye and checking out what various draft guys say.... I'm higher on him than I was, I hope he falls to 3, I think he'll end up my QB2 in this draft.
One thing I noticed from watching more full games (ACC has some of their full games on youtube), is something that was mentioned (I think by Trevor Sikkema) which is.... he makes some INSANE bad decisions, but he actually doesn't make that many, like he's not that turnover prone, it's just when he makes them they are often just like over the top bad choices. So you get the feel of "this dude is making crazy decisions" when the overall ratio of good to bad decisions is actually pretty strong.

Yes I've been saying Maye is QB2 for a while now. The Daniels hype is getting out of control.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Yes I've been saying Maye is QB2 for a while now. The Daniels hype is getting out of control.

I know very little, but the more I read, the more I'm on the Maye train. That said, Daniels is an intriguing and dynamic prospect. I'd be fine with either. The thing is, it seems to me that Kingsbury's hiring in Washington makes it more likely that Maye falls to the Patriots. Daniels seems to be his kind of guy. The fly in the ointment there is if Washington trades up to get Caleb Williams to pair with his old OC, then who knows who's going to go at #2. I still think Maye is available when the Patriots pick, and I'm glad he will be. They will almost certainly take him. I think they'd be crazy not to.

 

[Arroyoyo]

To me it’s just clear when you watch both of their 2023 tape that Daniels is the far more explosive athlete that is a big-play (running or with a deep ball) threat at all times. However, you don’t see much consistency in the intermediate passing game. He’s a walking highlight reel but I’m not sure how methodically - and consistently - he can move an offense down the field.

Maye is a very good but not great athlete, can use his legs when he has to, but can put the ball anywhere on the field. Literally anywhere.

So do you want the guy that will create a handful of “holy shit” plays most games (that’ll dominate poorly-coached/disciplined teams) or the guy that’s more likely to sustain drives over 60 minutes?

If you want the former, draft Daniels. If you want the latter, draft Maye.

It’s what my eyeballs tell me when I watch both of them. But I’ve been paid a total of $0 for my scouting abilities, which makes me an amateur at best, so trust whatever voices you tend to trust.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I think you need to adjust for the fact that Allen was playing with mid-tier Mountain West teammates in a HEAVY run-first offense (which really centered around Brian Hill more than Allen) vs. Maye playing with mid-tier ACC teammates in a more traditional mix of run/pass. Apples to oranges.

Ok, what's the adjustment you'd like to make? Josh Allen sucked ass against shittier competition, with shittier teammates in a shittier conference in a different offensive system than Drake Maye?


Thus, because one team ran the ball more in a shittier conference with shittier players and shittier competition makes Maye and Allen an apples to oranges comparison?

Basically, you're arguing that nobody could ever be compared with anyone else from a different conference or different offensive style in college.

Got it.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

To me it’s just clear when you watch both of their 2023 tape that Daniels is the far more explosive athlete that is a big-play (running or with a deep ball) threat at all times. However, you don’t see much consistency in the intermediate passing game. He’s a walking highlight reel but I’m not sure how methodically - and consistently - he can move an offense down the field.

Maye is a very good but not great athlete, can use his legs when he has to, but can put the ball anywhere on the field. Literally anywhere.

So do you want the guy that will create a handful of “holy shit” plays most games (that’ll dominate poorly-coached/disciplined teams) or the guy that’s more likely to sustain drives over 60 minutes?

If you want the former, draft Daniels. If you want the latter, draft Maye.

It’s what my eyeballs tell me when I watch both of them. But I’ve been paid a total of $0 for my scouting abilities, which makes me an amateur at best, so trust whatever voices you tend to trust.

Agreed that Daniels is a true home run hitter with huge upside with big plays but i think Maye’s passing based big plays were hindered in school due to the system and receiving talent. He can certainly hit those big throws down the field, he just didn’t have the same number of opportunities to do it.

Maye’s experience, comfort and (as far as prospects go) good ability at throwing over the middle is his biggest selling point IMO.

 

[RSC3000]

The Athletic did a beat writer mock draft that had the Pats trading out of 3 and (separately) trading for Fields, after Williams and Maye went 1-2.

https://theathletic.com/5287977/2024/02/22/nfl-mock-draft-falcons-patriots-justin-fields/

Trade: Falcons send No. 8, No. 43 and a 2025 first-round pick to Patriots for No. 3

8. New England Patriots (from Atlanta): Olu Fashanu, OT, Penn State

This wasn’t the initial plan. I think the Patriots want a quarterback with the third pick, so I was ready to grab Daniels, which is why I rebuffed early offers from the Giants and Falcons, letting them know it would take a silly trade offer to acquire No. 3. And then, well, a silly offer arrived from the Falcons. So we changed course, netted the Falcons’ first-round pick next year plus a second-round pick this year, and then sent our third-round pick to the Bears for Fields. We used the No. 8 pick to grab Fashanu, who fills a massive need at offensive tackle and can help protect our new quarterback.

Trade: Patriots send No. 68 to Bears for QB Justin Fields
The Patriots don’t want this rebuild to last long, and Fields helps that. They can look at this like a two-year audition for Fields to show he’s the franchise quarterback, and if not, they can use that time to build up the roster elsewhere (there are plenty of holes) before drafting a rookie in a couple of years. — Chad Graff

Personally not a fan of the Fields portion of this deal at all, doesn't seem like he can read a defense, and don't see much potential improvement there. It seems to me his skill position weapons + protection were better than what we'd offer currently. Even if we can reasonably assume some upgrades there through FA + draft, that would be a lot of faith to go on to expect a leap. I'd rather just sign Brissett or someone else over the loss of a 3rd rounder in this case.

Second point, that seems like a reasonable return, however, shouldn't we be expecting an overwhelming offer given how the cost seems to be go up every year for a potentially franchise altering QB prospect? I doubt anyone rooting for Atlanta would even bat an eye at that cost in regards to it being steep. So shouldn't we be expecting even more?

 

[Mooch]

Ok, what's the adjustment you'd like to make? Josh Allen sucked ass against shittier competition, with shittier teammates in a shittier conference in a different offensive system than Drake Maye?


Thus, because one team ran the ball more in a shittier conference with shittier players and shittier competition makes Maye and Allen an apples to oranges comparison?

Basically, you're arguing that nobody could ever be compared with anyone else from a different conference or different offensive style in college.

Got it.

I’m saying that trying to project Maye based on the fact that he was better than Allen against better competition in college is a fool’s errand because they were two completely different situations. Allen never had a chance to show what he could do because his offense asked him to do completely different things given the makeup of his team.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I would love to know what folks see in Jacoby Brissett. Dude is not good. Like really not good. When he was given the starting job in Indy, playing in a climate controlled dome, he put up a 2 season record of 11-19 and QB ratings of 81.7 and 88.0. He gets sacked all the time, has no mobility left. The best thing you can say about him is he doesn't give the ball up that much, which means he might win you a few games on that alone with our defense. But, I would rather go into the season with Matthew Slater at QB, go 0-17, and try to get the #1 pick next year than bring in Jacoby and try to squeeze out 6-7 wins, because we still need a QB.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I’m saying that trying to project Maye based on the fact that he was better than Allen against better competition in college is a fool’s errand because they were two completely different situations. Allen never had a chance to show what he could do because his offense asked him to do completely different things given the makeup of his team.

There are no two college situations that are the same (I think when it comes to QB's, college coaching matters far more than conference, teammates, etc), but if you have a better comp for Maye than Allen, based on their size, their arm strength and how they play as QB's, I"m all ears. Perhaps the reason Wyoming wasn't giving Allen a chance to show what he could do, was because every time they gave him a chance, he was 50/50 on giving the ball to the other team (and that hasn't diminished entirely since turning pro). But they have a lot of the same physical traits, and my point was if folks are going to keep talking about Maye's "decision making," my point is that Allen was a guy with the same knocks coming into the draft, and a lot of the same tools. And if Drake Maye turns into Josh Allen 2.0, I can't imagine anyone would be unhappy with it.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I would love to know what folks see in Jacoby Brissett. Dude is not good. Like really not good. When he was given the starting job in Indy, playing in a climate controlled dome, he put up a 2 season record of 11-19 and QB ratings of 81.7 and 88.0. He gets sacked all the time, has no mobility left. The best thing you can say about him is he doesn't give the ball up that much, which means he might win you a few games on that alone with our defense. But, I would rather go into the season with Matthew Slater at QB, go 0-17, and try to get the #1 pick next year than bring in Jacoby and try to squeeze out 6-7 wins, because we still need a QB.

Brissett is competent and not unwilling to help young QBs, he's familiar with the OC and had his best year with him, and he's got a skillset with some overlap to both of our most likely picks at #3. He's likely cheap.... he's basically the ideal vet for this team. In terms of signing him to be the starter.... yeah as much as I personally like him that's not a plan.

 

[RSC3000]

I would love to know what folks see in Jacoby Brissett. Dude is not good. Like really not good. When he was given the starting job in Indy, playing in a climate controlled dome, he put up a 2 season record of 11-19 and QB ratings of 81.7 and 88.0. He gets sacked all the time, has no mobility left. The best thing you can say about him is he doesn't give the ball up that much, which means he might win you a few games on that alone with our defense. But, I would rather go into the season with Matthew Slater at QB, go 0-17, and try to get the #1 pick next year than bring in Jacoby and try to squeeze out 6-7 wins, because we still need a QB.

I like him for a lot of the reasons CD just mentioned, competent back-up level QB, likely willing to be a good pro with a young guy that you need to bringing regardless, and low level commitment in contract + years. I'm all in on just taking the QB at #3 and was not intending to suggest we sign Jacoby as the go to starter and calling it a day. That would be ridiculous. My point was I'm not a fan of Fields at all and don't find that move over Brissett / vet + rookie QB a better decision. Either of those moves likely results in us back to the drawing board, hoping to get close enough to the bottom for a shot at one of the top QB prospects.

 

[Mooch]

There are no two college situations that are the same (I think when it comes to QB's, college coaching matters far more than conference, teammates, etc), but if you have a better comp for Maye than Allen, based on their size, their arm strength and how they play as QB's, I"m all ears. Perhaps the reason Wyoming wasn't giving Allen a chance to show what he could do, was because every time they gave him a chance, he was 50/50 on giving the ball to the other team (and that hasn't diminished entirely since turning pro). But they have a lot of the same physical traits, and my point was if folks are going to keep talking about Maye's "decision making," my point is that Allen was a guy with the same knocks coming into the draft, and a lot of the same tools. And if Drake Maye turns into Josh Allen 2.0, I can't imagine anyone would be unhappy with it.

Daniel Jeremiah sees Maye as a more athletic Carson Palmer. That feels like a closer comp to me than Allen.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Daniel Jeremiah sees Maye as a more athletic Carson Palmer. That feels like a closer comp to me than Allen.

Isn't Josh Allen also a more athletic Carson Palmer? Joe Burrow? Jeremiah lost me last summer when he was writing that Josh Allen is a better comp for Caleb Williams than Mahomes is.

I dont think we need to go back 22 years to find a comp for Maye. Seems like some weird naval gazing to me. Maye is a prospect. He's not some unicorn that comes along every two decades that we can't find a more contemporary example than Carson Palmer.

 

[Mooch]

Isn't Josh Allen also a more athletic Carson Palmer? Joe Burrow? Jeremiah lost me last summer when he was writing that Josh Allen is a better comp for Caleb Williams than Mahomes is.

I dont think we need to go back 22 years to find a comp for Maye. Seems like some weird naval gazing to me. Maye is a prospect. He's not some unicorn that comes along every two decades that we can't find a more contemporary example than Carson Palmer.

I’ve read other scouts say that he’s closest to Justin Herbert in terms of current players but I don’t think he has the throwing mechanics/touch that Maye has.

The big knock on Allen coming out was that he was “too mobile”: often leaving the pocket when he didn’t have to, mainly due to a weak pass protecting line that he didn’t fully trust.

With Maye, the negatives revolve around his penchant for poor decision making. Which was Palmer’s biggest flaw in the NFL. I can easily see the comp there from what Maye has put on tape at UNC.

 

[j44thor]

Maye does not have Allen's arm probably because I'm not sure anyone including Saint Mahomes has Allen's arm. No one that I've seen can throw a 20yd out like Allen can with virtually no arc on the pass if needed.

I agree Maye is closer to Herbert both in mobility and arm talent which is to say plenty good enough but not Allen level. Maye currently doesn't have Herbert's mechanics but with coaching hopefully he can get there.

Another comp for Maye would be who Stroud was coming into the draft process and there were rumblings last year that both Williams and Maye would have gone 1-2 had they been eligible last year. Stroud didn't run much in college but that was much more to do with the fact he had ridiculous receivers the entirety of his career than some lack of mobility which he did show off when needed in the CFB playoffs. Stroud was a better decision maker with better mechanics but I'd say talent wise they are very similar and Maye was considered to have a higher upside at this time last year.

 

[67YAZ]

I keep reading player profile and thinking, “that’s a BB player!” Like NC State LB Payton Wilson - former star lacrosse player & HS state champion wrestler.

It will be interesting to see the typical characteristics a Mayo/Wolf player.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Please, please, please, no more JJ McCarthy talk. Make it stop.

Hear hear. I’d be pissed taking him at 35, foh with this #3 nonsense.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Is anyone actually advocating for McCarthy at 3 or merely pointing out that it’s within the realm of possibilities for what Wolf (or any other GM via trade up) might decide to do?

Even on the eve of last year’s drafts, most “analysts” and experts didn’t have Richardson going 4th (Jeremiah had him 20 with Levis going 4)

QB’s can be very difficult to figure out where they’re going to land, especially 2 months out from the actual draft. McCarthy fits the profile of a guy who gets forced up the board. If he has a good combine, which he should, there will be a lot of chatter about him being a top 5-7 pick and that’s not much of a stretch to 3rd overall.

Daniels, for all his enticing upside, has plenty of red flags. I don’t think he’s a top 3 overall or top 3 QB lock at this point. Especially if he comes in lighter or slower (presumably at pro day since he’s unlikely to run at the combine) then many hope.

 

[Justthetippett]

Is anyone actually advocating for McCarthy at 3 or merely pointing out that it’s within the realm of possibilities for what Wolf (or any other GM via trade up) might decide to do?

Even on the eve of last year’s drafts, most “analysts” and experts didn’t have Richardson going 4th (Jeremiah had him 20 with Levis going 4)

QB’s can be very difficult to figure out where they’re going to land, especially 2 months out from the actual draft. McCarthy fits the profile of a guy who gets forced up the board. If he has a good combine, which he should, there will be a lot of chatter about him being a top 5-7 pick and that’s not much of a stretch to 3rd overall.

Daniels, for all his enticing upside, has plenty of red flags. I don’t think he’s a top 3 overall or top 3 QB lock at this point. Especially if he comes in lighter or slower (presumably at pro day since he’s unlikely to run at the combine) then many hope.

Barring some poor performance in his workouts I think he goes between 4 and 12. There's enough noise at this point to make that a reasonable projection. And going 3 would not be ridiculous. All the thinking I've done on him is in relation to a trade down by the Pats. It's basically a Daniels for him plus picks trade. I'm sure it's one of the many, many scenarios they are considering.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Barring some poor performance in his workouts I think he goes between 4 and 12. There's enough noise at this point to make that a reasonable projection. And going 3 would not be ridiculous. All the thinking I've done on him is in relation to a trade down by the Pats. It's basically a Daniels for him plus picks trade. I'm sure it's one of the many, many scenarios they are considering.

I think him going 3 would be pretty ridiculous personally. I just don't see the case for him over Daniels.... Daniels is faster, Daniels is a more skilled runner by a lot, Daniels is taller, heavier, has more success as a passer.... yeah sure McCarthy is younger, but the gap in actual performance on tape is pretty big, and he doesn't appear to have any particular physical advantages.

Now of course weird things can happen (Trubisky).

 

[Justthetippett]

I think him going 3 would be pretty ridiculous personally. I just don't see the case for him over Daniels.... Daniels is faster, Daniels is a more skilled runner by a lot, Daniels is taller, heavier, has more success as a passer.... yeah sure McCarthy is younger, but the gap in actual performance on tape is pretty big, and he doesn't appear to have any particular physical advantages.

Now of course weird things can happen (Trubisky).

I'd be surprised but not shocked, let me put it that way. And it would need to be based on a lot of projection and a discounting of Daniels' tape. Teams can make weird, very particular decisions at QB though. I think we'll hear a lot of positive things in the coming weeks about his clean mechanics and athleticism and, gulp, his "winning" and "competitiveness".

For the record, I would not take him #3.