Offseason rumors
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Well, did they get him?
If I say today I feel like the Sox are going to get Yamamoto, and they don't get him but made an offer, was I right?
Not directed just at you, but why do so many posters assume that a player coming from Japan necessarily gives two shits about being “proximate” to other Japanese people when choosing a city to play in? FWIW, if roles were reversed, would you want to play in a city in Japan that had lots of American ex-pats? I wouldn’t.
I think it's primarily a food thing, the more Japanese people in a city, the more and better Japanese restaurants and stores they probably have. I know my wife has felt more and more comfortable over the years as more of her favorite foods/ingredients from Japan become more easily available and higher quality.
You can direct it at me. My wife is Japanese and proximity to Japanese culture is a very big deal for her, as she wants our kids to be able to experience both cultures of their parents. Maybe less of an issue for a young ball player but many Japanese people in my experience want to bring their culture to where they are. We specifically didn’t move to Texas, where I was located during engagement, because of that reason alone.
I would refuse to play anywhere that didn’t have a lot of American ex-pats, personally. However it does bear mentioning that I am a hermit.
I honestly am not directing this at you even one bit, I am directing it to the entire board.
Think before you hit 'post reply', does this really need to be here? Is this adding to the discussion?
We're all here to some extent because of the long-time overall quality level, but it's only as good as the collective quality that we continue to each put in. So let's all try to be better. And I'm definitely definitely definitely not saying don't make jokes, or even always stay on topic.
In the immortal words of Butters, 'do you know what I am saying?'.
Fair point, but just for the record, I was responding to the initial question in all honesty with a joke thrown in. I legit would not want to play, or work anywhere, in an environment where I’m a total fish out of water and think it’s a worthy avenue of discussion when we’re talking about why a player coming from Japan might want to play in one spot over another.
Ah, OK.
I know that question was posed earlier but I think Japan is a pretty specific case, they have a lot of things unique to their culture, maybe more than any other country? (I have no idea if this is true but so much history plus an island country and it's my experience, maybe @BigSoxFan or @Tokyo Sox or @kazuneko or anyone else can chime in too).
Anyway, everywhere has McDonald's, Starbucks, etc, now so I don't think our perspective as Americans is really relevant here (IMO obv). Somehow they even still have Tower Records there. The first time I met my wife's family there, we met in a Denny's, heh, and I am pretty sure they had decided on that even before I was coming, not for my benefit.
My wife was from Japan and she absolutely wanted to be in a city with Japanese and aspects of Japanese culture.
Likewise, when I lived in Japan I was very glad to be living in a place with other foreigners.
Especially for a younger person new to a foreign country, I think having ex-pats around is a comfortable thing. I could imagine this being a factor for Yamamoto. I just hope the Yoshida factor cancels it out.
This is starting to drift off topic but.....younger generation Japanese have taken on Western culture as you all know. Older folks still consider gaijin outsiders....Japanese can't "really" invent anything but make everythinbg better. All cultures consider themselves superior to all others. We will never live in a star trek world.
I think ur wifes family decided to try to make you feel comfortable in an environment that "you" could be comfortable/familiar with. Pretty wrong with that one.
I've got a funny feeling that YY is going to be a Dodger. A couple of million here or there isn't going to be the deciding factor. Cultural comfortability and a winning environment plus the extra $$$ perks. "IF" he does become a Met (or somewhere else) the opt out clause will still give him time to win in LA imho.
Depends what that price was. If we would’ve signed him for 3yrs $39m but balked at 3yrs $45m because we want to sign a couple of $1m Cooper Criswells then color me not impressed.
FWIW, Yamamoto somewhat famously has a personal chef who cooks all his meals; he credited the chef (who might also be a nutritionist?) with helping him add a bunch of good weight and wring more velocity out of his small frame. (We should get Bello on that diet…)
Point is, I think they’ll be able to source whatever ingredients they need with the budget they’ll have, and it doesn’t sound like he’s really planning on eating out a lot. Hell, some things might actually be fresher: a ton of the tuna folks eat in Japan is from the North Atlantic anyways, and Maine has a fantastic sea urchin fishery that I was told does a lively export business to Japan and Korea.
Larger point is that everything we know about Yamamoto as a person is that he is a monomaniacal fitness and training guy. He got really into yoga and, like, track and field training techniques (he throws a javelin between starts) that he says has helped him avoid injury thus far. Obviously I don’t know anything except what was written in a few profiles by journalists, but, he seems pretty self-contained as a dude.
Point is, I think they’ll be able to source whatever ingredients they need with the budget they’ll have, and it doesn’t sound like he’s really planning on eating out a lot. Hell, some things might actually be fresher: a ton of the tuna folks eat in Japan is from the North Atlantic anyways, and Maine has a fantastic sea urchin fishery that I was told does a lively export business to Japan and Korea.
Larger point is that everything we know about Yamamoto as a person is that he is a monomaniacal fitness and training guy. He got really into yoga and, like, track and field training techniques (he throws a javelin between starts) that he says has helped him avoid injury thus far. Obviously I don’t know anything except what was written in a few profiles by journalists, but, he seems pretty self-contained as a dude.
First, and to highlight the cultural divide, as an American I think Denny's in Japan is possibly the biggest letdown in the entire country. No Grand Slam Breakfasts??? Sir, this is a Deni-zu.
Co-sign all of these posts. Japanese friends and relatives including my somewhat Westernized wife all get antsy if they have to eat bread too many days in a row instead of rice. I don't think it's exclusive to Japan; the one time I went to Cambodia the hotel I was in for whatever reason had a ton of Koreans, and they had brought their own kimchi with them and ate it every morning & evening. And they were presumably there just for a few days.
Specific to NPB players making the transition, most of these guys speak no English, and absolutely take comfort in the familiar, be it language, food, whatever. I think there's no doubt that proximity to Japan and Japanese people & food are part of the decision process about where to sign. The good news is that Boston has direct flights, Porter Square, an active Japan Society, plenty of Asian markets, and some half decent Japanese restaurants (or at least it used to, I haven't been in a while). New York & LA probably beat Boston on most of these scores, but we're way above say Chicago or St Louis.
To tackle this angle, I'll just say I think that @BornToRun 's attitude is far, far more common than @EyeBob 's among the foreign players that do come over to Japan to play. In Tokyo & Osaka, the schools, the restaurants, the ability to communicate with the locals, even the quality of the apartments -- really everything about their life here will be more comfortable in Tokyo than in say Sendai, or even Hiroshima or Sapporo, both of which are lovely little cities.
There are players who come over and embrace life & culture here, and if EyeBob is confident that's who he'd be, I think it's awesome and commendable. But for every player like that -- say a Tuffy Rhodes or Alex Ramirez type -- there are a dozen Gabe Kaplers & Kevin Youkilii who come over for a month or a season and decide it's just not for them. Even in Tokyo.
He did an event last night at the ‘Quin with Kennedy. Kennedy then headed to the airport for today’s meeting. So we know what we’ve always known. They’ll make a push but do are 10 other teams.
Now I really want this guy. Does Boston have javelin friendly facilities? Can a person just head to the Common and gets to chuckin'?
Is there any doubt that Shaugnessy would be foaming at the mouth to snarkily shit on the dude the first time he came up with arm troubles? Call him the "$350 million track and field star" or some such.
I'm guessing that YY will chose sometime right before Christmas and by mid January the remaining FA's will be picked up. I'm not confident the Sox will be able to get him but I'm not writing it off. The handwriting is written larger than Brian wrote "Romans Go Home!" on the walls that they NEED to get him... and more than the Mets, Yankees or Dodgers IMO who would be able to add Montgomery, Snell, etc... a little more comfortably nestled in to the middle of their rotations. The Sox have a bigger void in the rotation
Not sure how to embed a tweet, but Rosenthal (among others) talking about LAD and TB closing in on a deal for Glasnow.
Looks like it'd be something along the lines of Glasnow and old friend Manny Margot to LAD for Ryan Pepiot and some other stuff. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/dodgers-rays-discussing-deal-involving-tyler-glasnow-manuel-margot.html
Glasnow basically makes Chris Sale look like Cal Ripken Jr, but I suppose I'd rather have said dozen starts coming outside the AL East.
(edit - thanks @TimScribble)
Looks like it'd be something along the lines of Glasnow and old friend Manny Margot to LAD for Ryan Pepiot and some other stuff. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/dodgers-rays-discussing-deal-involving-tyler-glasnow-manuel-margot.html
Glasnow basically makes Chris Sale look like Cal Ripken Jr, but I suppose I'd rather have said dozen starts coming outside the AL East.
(edit - thanks @TimScribble)
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Please no. I already need to love/hate watch Ohtani and Mookie on the Dodgers. Glasnow is another fave.
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This would be an absolutely horrific trade for the Dodgers and another unbelievable move by the Rays. Pepoit looks like the real deal.
I mean, this sounds right in a vacuum, but you need both types of guys to make a winning ball club. There have been some pretty impactful players to come through Boston that were on this kind of deal.
I think when it comes to the Dodgers, you can't rule them out on anyone no matter what they do.
Their Starting Rotation is worse than Boston's. I'd imagine that if they're willing to throw money around, they'll still be in on Yamamoto. They still have a need. The only quesiton is whether or not their financial resources are truly inexhaustible.
Ugh, this deferral shit has to be looked at. If he doesn't want his money right now, that's his problem, but just skirting the CBA in this way seems intolerable.
From the article: "Betts, whom Yamamoto is said to be fond of as a player, was in attendance..."
The best recruiter in baseball is having an off-season.
View: https://twitter.com/Alden_Gonzalez/status/1678953209849860096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
It's not skirting anything though, unless it's somehow helping the Dodgers navigate a short term cash flow issue (lol). It's just tacking a gaudy dollar number on the overall deal for PR and legally avoiding some taxes personally. He got 10/460.
Here is an article from MLB Trade Rumors: Why Shohei Ohtani’s Contract Structure Is Not A Luxury Tax Dodge
This article went up pretty quickly after the signing. If you're going to name the article that, it makes the reader think this is, in fact, a tax dodge.
At the very least, it is a cash flow manipulation. This has to be something that will come up during the next CBA and it doesn't bode well for labor peace.
This article went up pretty quickly after the signing. If you're going to name the article that, it makes the reader think this is, in fact, a tax dodge.
At the very least, it is a cash flow manipulation. This has to be something that will come up during the next CBA and it doesn't bode well for labor peace.
It's skirting something because their own stated rationale, apparently, is that it helps them bring in more players now. Which means that if he got $70m they wouldn't bring in as many guys, which seems like it could only mean that they
I keep harping over and over and over again that these major guys want to go to organization that they know with 100% accuracy will fill the team with talent for a championship. Unfortunately, fairly or unfairly, that just isn't the current case with the Red Sox. Maybe they can convince him otherwise. I don't know. I'd be shocked.
I believe the line about keeping the team flexible to spend came from Ohtani's camp, but if I were feeling cynical I'd say it dovetails awfully nicely with the personal interest angle of "I'm already making more in endorsements than I can possibly spend so I'd sure like to have 97% of this enormous contract not be subject to CA taxes."
I don't understand this concern. Teams that are seriously in the running for these "major guys" have to be willing to spend the money it takes to sign them. If they're willing to do that, what more can they do to prove they're willing to "fill the team with talent for a championship"? Texas was a shit team for at least the six years previous to signing Seager and Semien, and had never won a title in their history. What did they say to Seager to convince him they were an aspiring contender? I mean, other than basically handing him a blank check?
Was it the team culture that led David Price to sign with the Sox (who were coming off back to back and 3 out of 4 last place seasons) or the extra $20M or so the Sox were offering compared to anyone else? If they want Yamamoto more than the other guys, they'll simply offer him more money than anyone else. If the concern is that other teams will be willing to go further, then it's not about "commitment to winning" or whatever, it's about dollar signs.
I'm likely wrong, but I thought I read somewhere they they had to move money starting in 2026 somewhere
Yamamoto is going to get his number from a ton of teams, which isn’t the care with your examples listed.
Ohtani reportedly came to a financial agreement with the Giants before taking a similar deal with the Dodgers.
It’s completely fair to say that in the age of 300-400mm contracts, these guys aren’t making decisions based on selecting whoever outbids the other team by a dollar.
Dedication, infrastructure, stability, winning. These things matter after money doesn’t.
Yes, they do, but it seems like it's not exactly onerous for them:
https://theathletic.com/5133065/2023/12/13/mlb-reaction-shohei-ohtani-contract/
This is where I believe the unique issue to Yamamoto comes in.
With the Mets in on him, if he's truly just going for the highest bidder, I literally don't think there is a number at which Cohen will stop bidding. With LAD and NYY in on him, if joining a team that is built to contend over the next 3 seasons matters even a little, they can both pay him approximately what the Sox could and have much better MLB rosters and the Dodgers have, at minimum, a comparable farm system from which to deal (depends on the list one likes). They've also shown a lot more of a recent willingness to deal from it and - unlike the Red Sox - they have pitching to deal. If he cares at all about a Japanese ex-pat community, LA and NY are much better options.
It's also why I think the Red Sox can (and should) take the blank check approach you just mentioned with Montgomery (to be clear, I thought they should have with Nola first, but that is now water under the bridge). If you sign with Boras as your agent, then it's highly likely that you'd take the highest offer if it blows others out of the water, even if you had a strong affinity to go to a different team (see Bogaerts, Xander). I think the Sox would be able to blow other teams out of the water for Montgomery (like Texas did with Seager; no they wouldn't have to pay him $325m though) in a way that they wouldn't be able to do with Yamamoto.
Ironically, it would probably help them in their pursuit of Yamamoto to do that first because a) they could STILL offer him an enormous deal if they were so inclined and b) it would demonstrate that they were adding pieces to go alongside him toward contending in the first few years of his mega deal.
Same could of course be said about striking a trade for a Montgomery type before Yamamoto signs, but that seems pretty unlikely to happen at this point.
Saying - we're good, because we have Chris Sale coming back from injury and injuries are fluky probably rings as hollow to free agents as it does to a large group of fans. Especially since this is now the 4th year in a row we've had to hear it.
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To the extent it is a dodge (I dont agree with that assessment, but to play along), its really that the player took less money than they conceivably could have. Given players have their own agency and can make their own decisions when a FA, I dont know how you legislate that away.
But the real thing here is that he wasnt getting a straight 10/700 so the real answer is that the CBT is just reflecting what Ohtani's actual market value was.
Edit: To be clear the only way of viewing this as a dodge is if you think Ohtani is actually worth 10/700 and would have been able to get that without deferrals or deferrals with market interest. So there's two possibilities: i) he's not worth that and would not have gotten that deal; or (ii) for some reason took less than he could have. Occams razor would suggest (i).
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I read on Twitter that the CBA has a section on deferrals that basically says “no limits.”
The Red Sox should go all in on Yamamoto. First, the Red Sox actually need him more than these other teams do. And further, acting like a small market team has grown stale. I am tired of it, like many others are at this point. What's done is done as far as the past goes. Henry tried a new approach, and it hasn't worked well. Ok, so be it. Let's get things moving back in the right direction and all will be forgiven. I think Yamamoto is obvious move for the Red Sox and they should pay what it takes to lock up a mid 20s phenom for the next 10 years.
At some point the NFL just divided the total compensation by the number of years for the cap purposes. It would be extremely easy to legislate if that is how the CBA parties wanted to proceed. As noted above they have a formula for dealing with this, so at most the Ohtani contract, by taking deferred compensation to such an extreme, might prompt a change in the next CBA.
Anyway, here's an actual rumor: that other teams have entered the Glasnow trade sweepstakes. Another update shoots down the Arozarena rumor too.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/dodgers-rays-discussing-deal-involving-tyler-glasnow-manuel-margot.html
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/dodgers-rays-discussing-deal-involving-tyler-glasnow-manuel-margot.html
I agree (that they should go after Yamamoto. I don't think they've acted like a small market team. They've spent money. They've just elected to do the baseball equivalent of spending call it on the baseball equivalent of scratch tickets and Keno as opposed to the baseball equivalent of S&P Index Funds, let alone hedge funds. Not spending money in a way that was likely is a different argument than not spending money)
I'm saying, I think that is easier if you've acquired another starting pitcher FIRST. There are plenty of openings or areas for improvement in the rotation. Add in someone else first and you show that you're building a team around him for the first several years of the contract.
Then you can still offer him said boatload of money, and a reasonable expectation of competing in the division based on the players around him.
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