Offseason rumors

[cantor44]

None. I believe the only documented offers are the ones by the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees.

Cora was interviewed about Yamamoto and talked very enthusiastically about him and demurred when asked if he's come to Fenway, but insisted he has people who can tell him what the Fenway/Boston experience is like, "he knows a lot about us" etc.,.. those aren't the contributions of a manager of a team not pursuing that player.

Meanwhile, since when is it a given - especially for the Red Sox - that you don't get top FAs unless you have a generation of prospects who are all working out such that you realize you can contend? Really, when did that become the rule? You rebuild the same way you build - FA/trades/homegrown guys/scrapheap diamonds-in-the-rough. You SELL expiring contracts when you aren't going anywhere to get more prospects (to later promote or trade) .... since when does a team - especially a rich one - wait year after year, season after season, indefinitely, for enough prospects to pan out before spending on FA?

This seems like a new thing invented on this thread.

 

[manny]

View: https://twitter.com/SFGiantsFN/status/1743769952543522890?s=20

 

[NickEsasky]

Cora was interviewed about Yamamoto and talked very enthusiastically about him and demurred when asked if he's come to Fenway, but insisted he has people who can tell him what the Fenway/Boston experience is like, "he knows a lot about us" etc.,.. those aren't the contributions of a manager of a team not pursuing that player.

Unless it was all part of the Red Sox psy-ops, 4D chess operation trying to drive up the price for competitors.

 

[Quatchie]

So you think they've gotten worse with the changes made so far? Because they weren't a bottom 5 AL team in 2023.

Yes, at this point I do believe they've gotten worse. Paxton is a loss they have not really made up. It's not a stretch to think they could be a bottom five AL team, they were not terribly far off from that last year. Depends on how much they improve before the season starts.

 

[Quatchie]

View: https://twitter.com/SFGiantsFN/status/1743769952543522890?s=20

The Red sox had been interested.

 

[soxhop411]

View: https://twitter.com/SFGiantsFN/status/1743769952543522890?s=20

That SI report is referencing a report that is just re-iterating reporting from US reporters. Nothing new

As the deadline for negotiations is approaching, the battle for the end of the year is approaching the final phase. Combining the stories of people involved in the baseball world, it turned out that the Giants in the Na League West area and the Angels in the A League West area, where pitcher Shohei Otani was enrolled until last season, are leading candidates.

A battle for more than 10 teams that showed interest. Initially, the evaluation, which was expected to be around 75 million dollars (about 10.8 billion yen) for 5 years, has soared due to the high demand for starting pitchers. Currently, it is said that it is over 100 million dollars (about 14.5 billion yen), and the Phillies and Cubs, which were highly evaluated, seem to have withdrawn for budgetary reasons. According to the U.S. media, the Yankees and the Mets are also reluctant from the organization side. The Red Sox are trying to reduce the total annual salary by releasing the ace left arm, pitcher Chris Sale (34) in a trade.

 

[4 6 3 DP]

Meanwhile, since when is it a given - especially for the Red Sox - that you don't get top FAs unless you have a generation of prospects who are all working out such that you realize you can contend? Really, when did that become the rule? You rebuild the same way you build - FA/trades/homegrown guys/scrapheap diamonds-in-the-rough. You SELL expiring contracts when you aren't going anywhere to get more prospects (to later promote or trade) .... since when does a team - especially a rich one - wait year after year, season after season, indefinitely, for enough prospects to pan out before spending on FA?

This seems like a new thing invented on this thread.

You're not the only person who can't understand why a board full of diehards would want their franchise to operate this way.

 

[NickEsasky]

You're not the only person who can't understand why a board full of diehards would want their franchise to operate this way.

I am beginning to wonder if people here actually watch the games or just want to watch spreadsheets or treat the Red Sox as a strat-o-matic team they manage. You don’t get bonus points for being the most efficiently managed team you get a trophy and a rings for being the best.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I am beginning to wonder if people here actually watch the games or just want to watch spreadsheets or treat the Red Sox as a strat-o-matic team they manage. You don’t get bonus points for being the most efficiently managed team you get a trophy and a rings for being the best.

Didn't you recently say that you were sick of people here making judgements about other people's fandom(paraphrased)? Because it sure sounds like that's what you're doing with your spreadsheets and strat-o-matic comment. Could maybe be perceived as a real dick comment.
But fwiw, you also don't get bonus points for spending the most money. You get a trophy and rings for being the best.

 

[jbupstate]

One thing I've been wondering about too is, given how tight-lipped the Fens has been with the moves coming out of nowhere so to speak. Could this CBT mid-market narrative be something that is being fed out there even through whatever sources are being used, as a form of misdirection? Or is that too tin foil hatish?

I think it makes just as much sense as FSG being cheap.

Serious question, why do you feel it necessary to pull the discussion back into a direction that you oppose?

I was not attempting to make a grand statement. Not the most well thought out response…

I do not believe the team is cheap or cutting corners. I think it’s very understandable they don’t feel the need for a huge investment in a non difference maker at this point in time… save the money by not investing in a move that doesn’t move the needle. YY was a huge investment that made sense due to his age and ability.

I should have made a comment on the team being tight lipped. This is a great thing in my opinion but frustrating to the media, agents maybe and SOSH. I think an easy place to put some hope is trades have come out of the blue and have been generally liked. Fingers crossed.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

So far the subsidized-Sale trade is the only obvious example, sweetening the deal enough to bring over a solid prospect like Grissom.

If the Red Sox can't leverage their advantage much during the off-season, then at the summer trading deadline, I would expect the Red Sox to be willing to take on some bad contracts from other teams that find themselves out of the running and want to shed their competent but overpaid veterans.

But yeah, I am also disappointed by their failure to weaponize their ample revenue under Bloom, and hope Breslow has a few more tricks up his sleeve.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at. It’s what I thought they should’ve done in 2022. In 2023 I thought they should a) move prospects for a cost controlled starter, if not that than b) move down the market depth for rentals and if neither c) buy prospects by selling off pieces like Duvall, Turner and Martin.

Now here we are in 2024 and - again - I’d first like them to make a “Beckett” type trade. However, I think Breslow will find that almost impossible because there isn’t the pitching in the system to do it.

So I think the more likely scenario is to go acquire a lesser pitching “prospect” for a couple higher ranked hitting ones. An example I’ll use is something like Logan T Allen for Yorke and Bleis - and I trust Breslow to find the “Allen” type that he likes, admittedly I have no idea who that is.

If - AND ONLY IF - even that isn‘t possible, I hope they do exactly what they did with the Sale trade. I outlined it as what I’ll call Preparation H (for the Austin Powers reference - and because at that point the team will be a pain in the ass to watch) in the “Moves I’d make” thread.

As in if they don’t / can’t / won’t acquire my own off-season plans A-G in Nola, Yamamoto, Montgomery, a “Cease” type, Imanaga - who I have written off based on Speier’s article today because if they’re down to “lurking” that means he’s going elsewhere, Stroman or “Allen” then they should eat a ton of money and deal Jansen, Martin and Pivetta for the best pitching prospects possible.

Then sign the best one year deals you can fit under the tax, but also have the stones to follow through with selling them in season. That’s the only real way to buy prospects.

The team as constituted (I think) is about a 75 win team (I actually think lower but if you’re under 80 its mostly irrelevant if it’s 71 or 79, you pretty much suck). So move what you can and replace with “Aroldis Chapman, Mike Lorenzen and Paxton or Ryu”, be the same 75ish win team, but at least having added some more SP prospects in the meantime.

 

[NickEsasky]

Didn't you recently say that you were sick of people here making judgements about other people's fandom(paraphrased)? Because it sure sounds like that's what you're doing with your spreadsheets and strat-o-matic comment. Could maybe be perceived as a real dick comment.
But fwiw, you also don't get bonus points for spending the most money. You get a trophy and rings for being the best.

People can enjoy the team that way if they want and I wouldn’t judge them for it. I do wonder if that thinking colors the fact that people seem to also have the rosiest view of a team that finished last in the division the last two seasons. But you want to think I’m a dick have at it. I don’t think about you at all.

 

[Auger34]

Didn't you recently say that you were sick of people here making judgements about other people's fandom(paraphrased)? Because it sure sounds like that's what you're doing with your spreadsheets and strat-o-matic comment. Could maybe be perceived as a real dick comment.
But fwiw, you also don't get bonus points for spending the most money. You get a trophy and rings for being the best.

This is a pretty gross misreading of what he posted. If you think what he said is close to the vitriol that he was responding to previously you need to have your eyes checked

 

[Benj4ever]

Funny how earlier this year the majority of fans wanted to have the Orioles' or Rays' teams, but aren't willing to do what it takes to get there.

 

[GPO Man]

Dodgers now front runners for Teoscar (apparently.)

https://x.com/tylermilliken_/status/1743804321148383374?s=46

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Dodgers now front runners for Toescar (apparently.)

https://x.com/tylermilliken_/status/1743804321148383374?s=46

Please post a screen shot of tweets. Many people who post here do not open (X)Twitter links.

 

[RedOctober3829]

This thread has made me seem like I am a Cotillo family member when in actuality I think he’s kind of a twerp….

however, I am going to ask you again…what makes you decide which reporters or reports are valuable? I honestly can’t figure out why some of them are worth posting and believing in your estimation versus the ones you vehemently disagree with

It’s easy: there’s a faction of this board that discredits anything remotely negative or critical of the team. When the whole Red Sox beat is saying the same things about the financial plans of this organization, you can only hold your fingers in your ears so much longer.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Funny how earlier this year the majority of fans wanted to have the Orioles' or Rays' teams, but aren't willing to do what it takes to get there.

For what it’s worth, I have no desire to be the Rays. Nor have I ever had any desire to emulate them (aside from spen jack on the bullpen). They never extend themselves to win jack. A team perfectly content to believe the playoffs are just a crapshoot.

Also no desire to be Baltimore. They are basically all hitting and no balance, and I don’t think that is a recipe to win titles either. Their owners are notoriously cheap as well. I don’t think they’re going to win anything either that way.

Now, I would like to be the 2003-18 Red Sox that were a mix of high priced elite talent (Manny, Pedro, Price, Martinez) some really good mid tier deals to fill needs - that didn’t always work out (Damon, Foulke, JD Drew, Matsuzaka, Clement, Lackey, Napoli, Victorino) a lot of trading from the farm to acquire (often extend) controllable pieces, which also doesn’t always work (Schilling, Beckett, Peavy, Sale, Pomeranz, Kimbrel) and some prospects that you held on to (Pedroia, Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Betts, Bogaerts). They also miiiiiiiight have gotten the most important player in franchise history off the scrap heap.

I think it’s a balance of all those. Because none of them will always work. The Red Sox were incredibly successful at blending these, the good and the bad, and for some reason I cannot understand, have stopped.

In the recent past, the Red Sox really haven’t done much outside the organization besides buy and hold prospects from the draft and IFA, with the occasional small stakes trade or mid market type deal (Yoshida), and almost all and exclusively one year or two year deals and dumpster diving. I don’t think that strategy - regardless of the person in charge of it - is going to win titles getting through the grinder of the AL East.

Which is why I have zero desire to emulate Tampa or Baltimore. Maybe Houston or Atlanta. The “Tampa model” has actually only one once, and it was in Kansas City of all places.

But no, I don’t aspire to make the playoffs consistently while always losing there.

 

[Mike473]

This is just not consistent with them wooing Yamamoto.

I think it is consistent. YY is only 25 years old and would have been here for probably 10+ years. He would have been right at his prime as the next run began and would have provided some excitement at the ball park in the mean time. Despite people saying Henry would be happy with all tourists at Fenway as long as it is filled, I really do think they need to maintain some star power on the team even during a rebuild period, which is why Devers is here in my opinion. It is just the cost of doing business in a large market. Someone 30+ wanting a long term deal isn't too likely here, because the most productive years of those contracts would be during the rebuild, not during the next run.

 

[BigSoxFan]

For what it’s worth, I have no desire to be the Rays. They never extend themselves to win jack. A team perfectly content to believe the playoffs are just a crapshoot.

Also no desire to be Baltimore. They are basically all hitting and no balance, and I don’t think that is a recipe to win titles either.

Now, I would like to be the 2003-18 Red Sox that were a mix of high priced elite talent (Manny, Pedro, Price, Martinez) some really good mid tier deals to fill needs - that didn’t always work out (Damon, Foulke, JD Drew, Matsuzaka, Clement, Lackey, Napoli, Victorino) a lot of trading from the farm to acquire (often extend) controllable pieces (Schilling, Beckett, Peavy, Sale, Pomeranz, Kimbrel) and some prospects that you held on to (Pedroia, Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Betts, Bogaerts).

I think it’s a balance of all those. In the recent past, the Red Sox really haven’t done much outside the organization besides buy and hold prospects from the draft and IFA, with the occasional small stakes trade or mid market type deal (Yoshida), and almost all and exclusively one year dumpster diving. I don’t think that strategy - regardless of the person in charge of it - is likely to win titles getting through the grinder of the AL East.

Which is why I have zero desire to emulate Tampa or Baltimore. Maybe Houston or Atlanta. The “Tampa model” has actually only one once, and it was in Kansas City of all places.

But no, I don’t aspire to make the playoffs consistently while always losing there.

Give me the Rangers model (sans DeGrom-esque signing). Blue chip prospects in Carter/Langford, finding diamonds in the rough (Adolis), and willingness to spend aggressively, when warranted (Seager, Semien).

 

[Auger34]

It’s easy: there’s a faction of this board that discredits anything remotely negative or critical of the team. When the whole Red Sox beat is saying the same things about the financial plans of this organization, you can only hold your fingers in your ears so much longer.

that’s my strong suspicion but I want to give @chawson the chance to defend himself/provide some sort of guidelines as to how he decides a certain reports value

 

[CR67dream]

that’s my strong suspicion but I want to give @chawson the chance to defend himself/provide some sort of guidelines as to how he decides a certain reports value

Do it over PMs. Enough of this here. Thanks.

 

[jbupstate]

It’s easy: there’s a faction of this board that discredits anything remotely negative or critical of the team. When the whole Red Sox beat is saying the same things about the financial plans of this organization, you can only hold your fingers in your ears so much longer.

As a long time fan of the laundry, I was hoping the divide along Bloom lines would break up and both sides could find enjoyment as the Sox attempt to rise out of the AL East basement.

I wish the Sox to make a move in the next 5 minutes so we can stop debating bored reporters (and social media wannabes) digging for insight, clicks or simple reactions. Not much information out there on the thoughts of management this week and it’s frustrating…

 

[BigSoxFan]

As a long time fan of the laundry, I was hoping the divide along Bloom lines would break up and both sides could find enjoyment as the Sox attempt to rise out of the AL East basement.

I wish the Sox to make a move in the next 5 minutes so we can stop debating bored reporters (and social media wannabes) digging for insight, clicks or simple reactions. Not much information out there on the thoughts of management this week and it’s frustrating…

It might be a long winter if Imanaga goes elsewhere. This week will at least give us another quality data point. But I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be concerned about the direction of the pitching staff if they don’t land Imanaga.

You’d be down to Snell, Montgomery (both seemingly unlikely) and guys like Stroman who are more short-term solutions. Still possibility of trades.

I’m not calling for the “code red”…but I am getting curious.

 

[103mph Screwball]

Please post a screen shot of tweets. Many people who post here do not open (X)Twitter links.
View attachment 76196

TY for anyone that posts the Twitter screenshots, my workplace blocks twitter so I can’t read when I’m there

For what it’s worth, I have no desire to be the Rays. Nor have I ever had any desire to emulate them (aside from spen jack on the bullpen). They never extend themselves to win jack. A team perfectly content to believe the playoffs are just a crapshoot.

Also no desire to be Baltimore. They are basically all hitting and no balance, and I don’t think that is a recipe to win titles either. Their owners are notoriously cheap as well. I don’t think they’re going to win anything either that way.

Now, I would like to be the 2003-18 Red Sox that were a mix of high priced elite talent (Manny, Pedro, Price, Martinez) some really good mid tier deals to fill needs - that didn’t always work out (Damon, Foulke, JD Drew, Matsuzaka, Clement, Lackey, Napoli, Victorino) a lot of trading from the farm to acquire (often extend) controllable pieces, which also doesn’t always work (Schilling, Beckett, Peavy, Sale, Pomeranz, Kimbrel) and some prospects that you held on to (Pedroia, Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Betts, Bogaerts). They also miiiiiiiight have gotten the most important player in franchise history off the scrap heap.

I think it’s a balance of all those. Because none of them will always work. The Red Sox were incredibly successful at blending these, the good and the bad, and for some reason I cannot understand, have stopped.

In the recent past, the Red Sox really haven’t done much outside the organization besides buy and hold prospects from the draft and IFA, with the occasional small stakes trade or mid market type deal (Yoshida), and almost all and exclusively one year or two year deals and dumpster diving. I don’t think that strategy - regardless of the person in charge of it - is going to win titles getting through the grinder of the AL East.

Which is why I have zero desire to emulate Tampa or Baltimore. Maybe Houston or Atlanta. The “Tampa model” has actually only one once, and it was in Kansas City of all places.

But no, I don’t aspire to make the playoffs consistently while always losing there.

This is exactly how I feel. I’m hoping the Breslow era leans more into this mindset. Because I have a tough time with a franchise with the highest game day experience in the league crying poverty when it comes to spending on talent (athletes or front office)

 

[Max Power]

It might be a long winter if Imanaga goes elsewhere. This week will at least give us another quality data point. But I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be concerned about the direction of the pitching staff if they don’t land Imanaga.

You’d be down to Snell, Montgomery (both seemingly unlikely) and guys like Stroman who are more short-term solutions. Still possibility of trades.

I’m not calling for the “code red”…but I am getting curious.

Stroman is likely to have a better year than Imanaga. Ending up with him wouldn't be a disappointment.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Stroman is likely to have a better year than Imanaga. Ending up with him wouldn't be a disappointment.

It would for me. He is 33 in a few months and a short-term option that does nothing to address a long-term need.

 

[Max Power]

It would for me. He is 33 in a few months and a short-term option that does nothing to address a long-term need.

Imanaga is only 2 years younger. Montgomery and Snell only 1. There really isn't a huge difference in the number of years you could project each of those four to be a good pitcher.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Imanaga is only 2 years younger. Montgomery and Snell only 1. There really isn't a huge difference in the number of years you could project each of those four to be a good pitcher.

There is likely to be a difference in the number of years Snell, Imanaga, and Montgomery get vs. Stroman. But maybe Stroman will surprise me and land a 5-6 year deal.

 

[jbupstate]

It might be a long winter if Imanaga goes elsewhere. This week will at least give us another quality data point. But I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be concerned about the direction of the pitching staff if they don’t land Imanaga.

You’d be down to Snell, Montgomery (both seemingly unlikely) and guys like Stroman who are more short-term solutions. Still possibility of trades.

I’m not calling for the “code red”…but I am getting curious.

What is the upside of Imanaga? Feels like quality SP3. The main draw is he’s cheaper than Snell and Montgomery.

If they sign him that would be great but next year’s class has more quality and more importantly quantity. And there is always the deadline and the hope our prospects jump in value.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

What is the upside of Imanaga? Feels like quality SP3. The main draw is he’s cheaper than Snell and Montgomery.

If they sign him that would be great but next year’s class has more quality and more importantly quantity. And there is always the deadline and the hope our prospects jump in value.

It's really hard to tell what his upside is, especially with that home run rate. Having said that, I kind of want him.

The problem with next year's class is that it's a year away. There is a legit chance that there isn't as much quantity or quality by the time next offseason is here.

 

[BigSoxFan]

What is the upside of Imanaga? Feels like quality SP3. The main draw is he’s cheaper than Snell and Montgomery.

If they sign him that would be great but next year’s class has more quality and more importantly quantity. And there is always the deadline and the hope our prospects jump in value.

I’m not crazy about Snell/Montgomery unless their demands come down. Stroman on a 2-3 year deal wouldn’t kill me or anything but it feels like more patchwork. I like Imanaga’s profile due to his swing and miss stuff. The homers concern me but I’m hopeful the staff can work on that.

I think Senga is a decent upside comp. Similar age. Same league. Not quite the same pitcher, obviously, but that’s what I have visions of if they sign him and he pitches to his capabilities.

 

[jbupstate]

It's really hard to tell what his upside is, especially with that home run rate. Having said that, I kind of want him.

The problem with next year's class is that it's a year away. There is a legit chance that there isn't as much quantity or quality by the time next offseason is here.

I really want him also. Someone new to the league with potential.

The bolded is such a great point with regards to forecasting availability of good players. Thing change rapidly and you can be stuck in a cycle of waiting.

It is also why Breslow’s background in developing pitchers is exciting. A few smaller investments (Guilito), minor moves (Pitts) and some tweaks to mechanics (Houch) couple really pay off.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I really want him also. Someone new to the league with potential.

The bolded is such a great point with regards to forecasting availability of good players. Thing change rapidly and you can be stuck in a cycle of waiting.

It is also why Breslow’s background in developing pitchers is exciting. A few smaller investments (Guilito), minor moves (Pitts) and some tweaks to mechanics (Houch) couple really pay off.

I still think there is going to be another trade for a pitcher. It might be a blockbuster for a Burnes or Luzardo, or maybe something way more under the radar, which I'm good with as well. With Imanaga's witching hour only a few days away, this should be a very interesting week.

 

[BringBackMo]

It would for me. He is 33 in a few months and a short-term option that does nothing to address a long-term need.

Who cares? Why does the long term need have to be remedied this particular offseason? What if the Red Sox put together a good team featuring good pitchers on short deals that can compete for a playoff spot in 2024…and then address the long term need in 2025 or 2026?

 

[simplicio]

I’m not crazy about Snell/Montgomery unless their demands come down.

Do we have any idea what their demands actually are?

 

[BigSoxFan]

Who cares? Why does the long term need have to be remedied this particular offseason? What if the Red Sox put together a good team featuring good pitchers on short deals that can compete for a playoff spot in 2024…and then address the long term need in 2025 or 2026?

Because it’s hard to win consistently when you’re turning over your pitching staff so much. Have we not just seen the effects of this the past few years? This is why everyone here has been advocating for trades for controllable starters. We currently have one guy (Bello) who we can comfortably pencil in for 2025 and beyond. We don’t have much on the farm to remedy this. I would like to see another piece added in 2024 that can help this year and beyond. Don’t think that is too controversial of a take.

If people want to keep going year to year, that’s fine too.

 

[OCD SS]

It’s not that we prefer year to year, it’s that the options this year aren’t very good. The surest way to wind up with a deal they regret is to try to force something…

 

[BigSoxFan]

It’s not that we prefer year to year, it’s that the options this year aren’t very good. The surest way to wind up with a deal they regret is to try to force something…

There is literally a 2 time Cy Young Award winner available this year. Montgomery is another clearly good pitcher. I just have concerns about his age and the potential length of contract. Imanaga has really good stuff by all accounts and was highly successful in Japan.

Next year has some good guys too but are the Sox going to pony up for them? Why not lock in one of these guys this year and another next year? We know they have the money to do so.

 

[jon abbey]

Do we have any idea what their demands actually are?

The reports are that Montgomery wants at least Rodon's deal (6/162) and Snell wants over 200. I want a lot of things too, but those are the reports.

 

[RS2004foreever]

The problem to some extent is the 3 remaining pitchers all have flaws.
Snell has 2 Cy Youngs - but he is 31 and has had so-so years outside of his 2 Cy Youngs. His peripherals (xFIP 3.62) were much higher than his ERA (2.25)
Montgomery is a good not great pitcher who simply may cost too much
Imanaga gives up a ton of home runs.

You can make a case for passing on all of them. But if you do then what. Right now the rotation looks like this:
Bello
Giolito
Houck
Pivetta
Crawford
That is probably better than last year for no reason other than it is likely to be healthier. But you have to do something here. Stroman would make some sense. Cease would make a lot of sense. But for some reason the market in general seems frozen - which suggests teams are trying to wait what are viewed as unrealistic salary demands.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The problem to some extent is the 3 remaining pitchers all have flaws.
Snell has 2 Cy Youngs - but he is 31 and has had so-so years outside of his 2 Cy Youngs. His peripherals (xFIP 3.62) were much higher than his ERA (2.25)
Montgomery is a good not great pitcher who simply may cost too much
Imanaga gives up a ton of home runs.

You can make a case for passing on all of them. But if you do then what. Right now the rotation looks like this:
Bello
Giolito
Houck
Pivetta
Crawford
That is probably better than last year for no reason other than it is likely to be healthier. But you have to do something here. Stroman would make some sense. Cease would make a lot of sense. But for some reason the market in general seems frozen - which suggests teams are trying to wait what are viewed as unrealistic salary demands.

Agreed. This is why I like the Imanaga idea. He’s cheaper than Snell/Montgomery, still comes with some upside, and doesn’t cost any assets. Then, you work the trade market and see if anything else shakes free. If not, you plan on going big for a guy like Burnes or Fried next offseason.

If you replace Imanaga with Stroman, not much changes so I get why some are interested in him. Burnes really is the guy I want and I’m fine waiting for him. But he’ll likely be in high demand next offseason.

 

[cantor44]

Yes, Snell's FIP is higher than his ERA, and last year's ERA was better than his peripherals. But godDAMN this is an excellent pitcher and I'd be thrilled if the Sox got him. Honestly. He would make a huge difference. We're waiting for a guy without any little warts? Well, that was Yamamoto, and that's IT. There ain't a lot of perfect FA out there. Snell is an all-star quality pitcher, and would be our clear clear SP1 (given the current roster)...

 

[CalSoxGal]

But isn't Snell's biggest wart his age coupled with the length of contract he's seeking? So the Sox have to consider not only what difference he would make now, but also what difference--good or bad--he might make 6 or however many years from now. If he would accept a 2 or 3 year deal, that would be an entirely different story.

 

[cantor44]

But isn't Snell's biggest wart his age coupled with the length of contract he's seeking? So the Sox have to consider not only what difference he would make now, but also what difference--good or bad--he might make 6 or however many years from now. If he would accept a 2 or 3 year deal, that would be an entirely different story.

I'd sign Snell to a six year deal if I ran the team. Probably Montgomery, too (one or the other that is), but would prefer Snell. Now if they wanted 8 or 9 years, that's different ...But the team is in desperate need of top of the rotation arms. Overpaying a bit might be worth it (both might well have 4-5 good years left), given that the rotation currently carries a bunch of 4/5 SP guys. Like everyone they have is a 4/5 guy (even Bello, at present, though with better promise). And this is a team that I might be more bullish on offensively than most. I wish they would sign a RHH hitting power hitter, but EVERY starting position player could be a + (in OPS+, in oWAR, etc - like they all have the potential, aside from Wong). If you add two top arms, the whole complexion of the season looks much different, and much more promising.

 

[CalSoxGal]

That's certainly a valid argument, as is the opposite position. And they've both been discussed in depth on this thread and others. I don't feel super strongly one way or the other myself, but I am confident it is something the Red Sox are thinking about.

 

[BringBackMo]

From selling MLB pieces in 2020 yes. I think he did a good job actually in the Mookie deal and I’m acquiring Pivetta. Whitlock was a clear win.

Beyond that, not so much.

Josh Winckowski from the Benintendi deal in 2021 gets thrown in the “not much” bucket? OK then, how about Wilyer Abreu and Enmanuel Valdez for Christian Vasquez in 2022?

I disagree with the way they’ve handled pitching in the draft for a long time. To be clear, I also understand this is a conscious decision they made, the reasons they made it, and that others in the industry have as well. I’m saying that I think in this scenario, the “herd” is wrong, and Boston is part of that herd.

Your argument here, at its core, is that not only are the Red Sox approaching pitching in the wrong way during the draft but so is the rest of baseball. Even if the belief is that some in the “herd“ are incompetent buffoons, isn’t there some chance that hiding somewhere in the herd there are at least a few teams employing one or two very smart and very hard working analysts who have studied years worth of data and determined that first round draft choices used on pitching have, on average, tended to result in poorer outcomes than ones used on hitters? Is there some chance that you have it wrong and that the Red Sox and the rest of baseball have it right?

 

[BringBackMo]

Because it’s hard to win consistently when you’re turning over your pitching staff so much. Have we not just seen the effects of this the past few years? This is why everyone here has been advocating for trades for controllable starters. We currently have one guy (Bello) who we can comfortably pencil in for 2025 and beyond. We don’t have much on the farm to remedy this. I would like to see another piece added in 2024 that can help this year and beyond. Don’t think that is too controversial of a take.

If people want to keep going year to year, that’s fine too.

Legitimate question for you: Do you think the bolded comment above in any way represents what I and others have been advocating? Is this what you think I want?

Everyone here wants the Red Sox to field a consistently competitive team. The arguments around here generally break along how to achieve that. It is quite clear that Breslow wants good young pitchers. You want that, and I want that, too. The question at hand is what to do if the good young pitchers he wants are not available to him this off-season. Should he sign pitchers he doesn’t want on six or seven year deals to six or seven year deals? Should he trade for controllable good pitchers that he doesn’t believe are actually controllable or good? Or should he sign good older pitchers to short term deals that allow the Sox to compete while he continues the hunt for long term solutions?

Everyone here wants the same thing—good pitchers who will be with the Sox for many years and set them up for consistent success. And perhaps Breslow will be able to deliver that in the next six weeks. That’s what we’re all hoping for. The question is what should the Red Sox do if he *isn’t* able to deliver it in the next six weeks?

 

[jbupstate]

But isn't Snell's biggest wart his age coupled with the length of contract he's seeking? So the Sox have to consider not only what difference he would make now, but also what difference--good or bad--he might make 6 or however many years from now. If he would accept a 2 or 3 year deal, that would be an entirely different story.

Snell is an excellent pitcher. The years don’t bother me and I would be happy if he was on the team. The issue is he doesn’t pitch deep into games and that’s a problem for this version of the Sox. They need lots of quality innings.

Best hope would be a trade for a horse and to sign Snell. Grabs innings and some high quality.

 

[HfxBob]

It's really hard to tell what his upside is, especially with that home run rate. Having said that, I kind of want him.

The problem with next year's class is that it's a year away. There is a legit chance that there isn't as much quantity or quality by the time next offseason is here.

Exactly. We've heard the names of Burnes and Wheeler. Well, from the sounds of it, if Burnes has a good year he'll be looking for at least as much as Snell is looking for this year. And the Phillies have been in extension talks with Wheeler, so he'll probably be off the board.