Parcells: A Football Life (excerpt about Belichick leaving NYJ)

I posted this a while ago in another thread.  I'm not saying Parcells was overrated, but it's interesting to see his numbers without Belichick:
 
[SIZE=10pt]Parcells w/ Belichick[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Giants (1983-1990)  [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 77-49-1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 8-3 w/ 2 Super Bowl Titles[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Patriots (1996) *[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 11-5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 2-1 w/ Conference Title[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Jets (1997-1999) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 29-19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 1-1[/SIZE]
 
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]Without Belichick[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Patriots (1993-1995)  [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 21-27 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 0-1[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Cowboys (2003-2006) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 34-30[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 0-2[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]So...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]With Bill Belichick:  12 Seasons[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]117-73-1 (.616 win pct) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 11-5 with 3 Conference Titles and 2 Super Bowl Titles[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Without Bill Belichick: 7 Seasons[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]55-57 (.491 win pct)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 0-3 with 0 Conference Titles and 0 Super Bowls Titles[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]* In 1996 Belichick was technically an "Assistant Head Coach" and the Defensive Backs Coach.  Al Groh had previously been named the D Coordinator and Parcells didn't want to demote him when Belichick became available.  But Belichick was the de facto Defensive Coordinator and was in charge of the entire defense, Groh even admitted as much. [/SIZE]
 

PedroKsBambino

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BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
I posted this a while ago in another thread.  I'm not saying Parcells was overrated, but it's interesting to see his numbers without Belichick:
 
[SIZE=10pt]Parcells w/ Belichick[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Giants (1983-1990)  [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 77-49-1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 8-3 w/ 2 Super Bowl Titles[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Patriots (1996) *[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 11-5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 2-1 w/ Conference Title[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Jets (1997-1999) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 29-19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 1-1[/SIZE]
 
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]Without Belichick[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Patriots (1993-1995)  [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 21-27 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 0-1[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Cowboys (2003-2006) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Reg Season : 34-30[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 0-2[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]So...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]With Bill Belichick:  12 Seasons[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]117-73-1 (.616 win pct) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 11-5 with 3 Conference Titles and 2 Super Bowl Titles[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Without Bill Belichick: 7 Seasons[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]55-57 (.491 win pct)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Season: 0-3 with 0 Conference Titles and 0 Super Bowls Titles[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]* In 1996 Belichick was technically an "Assistant Head Coach" and the Defensive Backs Coach.  Al Groh had previously been named the D Coordinator and Parcells didn't want to demote him when Belichick became available.  But Belichick was the de facto Defensive Coordinator and was in charge of the entire defense, Groh even admitted as much. [/SIZE]
 
A couple of us had an extended analysis of Parcells without BB and BB alone a couple offseasons ago. It's quite hard to assess the role an assistant plays and how to allocate credit between a HC and a top coordinator; however, after a lot of looking the best that anyone could credibly say about Parcells' record without BB is that he was good at making bad teams OK.   That's something, of course, but it remains the case that the numbers simply don't allow a credible description that Parcells is even in the same discussion as Belichick as a head coach.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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Does Parcells have any signature "mad genius" moments like the intentional safety or Troy Brown at CB or the Vinatieri fake or anything, or even failed big risks like 4th and 2, where you said "this guy is a hell of a coach"? That's not rhetorical, I don't actually know.
 

Devizier

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loshjott said:
The Pats' pre-Parcells and Kraft years are portrayed as unending woe not because of their overall record but so many signature moments of incompetence and idiocy, or just plain bad luck.
 
I'm sure I missed some.
 
Irving Fryar getting stabbed and then turning his life around in Miami.
Sexually harassing Lisa Olson in the locker room.
 

Spacemans Bong

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MentalDisabldLst said:
Does Parcells have any signature "mad genius" moments like the intentional safety or Troy Brown at CB or the Vinatieri fake or anything, or even failed big risks like 4th and 2, where you said "this guy is a hell of a coach"? That's not rhetorical, I don't actually know.
 
I think Belichick learned his trick plays from Parcells, who always had a few up his sleeve in a big game, especially if he was the underdog.
 
The all-time Parcells trick play was the direct snap fake punt to Gary Reasons in the 1990 NFC championship game. 49ers up 13-9, about halfway through the 4th quarter. Joe's already out of the game after damn near being killed by Leonard Marshall. Giants go three and out, ball at about the Giant 40. My father claims he was yelling at the TV that it was going to be a fake punt, and the 49ers were totally caught off guard - in my mind (I obviously was too young to remember the game, but I've seen it on tape) Reasons basically jogged through the middle of the 49er defense and would have scored a touchdown had he not run out of gas at about the 49er 20. Hostetler couldn't do a thing after that, but Matt Bahr kicked the field goal to make it 13-12, otherwise the Giants would have had to try and score a touchdown when LT recovered Roger Craig's fumble, and in that game both teams were really struggling to put a drive together.
 
In addition, Dave Meggett had rolled out on a halfback option and had a Giant wide open for a touchdown, but the Giant receiver dropped the ball.
 
 
MentalDisabldLst said:
 
Wait, the same Matt Millen as that idiot who ran the Detroit Lions for a long time?  And then was banished to television where it was discovered he actually could hardly string three words together?  That guy?
 
...wow, Wikipedia says yes.  Crazy.
 
Millen was a pretty good linebacker and sort of the David Justice of the NFL. Picked up two rings with the Raiders then hung out with the 49ers and the '91 Redskins, picking up two more. He was on the field in the 90 NFCCG as well, his last game as a 49er.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Belichick I'm sure learned a good number of things from Parcells but the idea that his schemes and occasionally unorthodox late game decisions all, or even mostly, came from Parcells is a stretch. Also, citing Big Bill's fake punt doesn't, IMO, qualify as inspiration. Lots of coaches - before, during and after Tuna's time - did that.

Edit: clarity
 

dcdrew10

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dcmissle said:
Pre Kraft and pre BB Pats in a nutshell: great promise marred by clown school, much of it coming from owners.
The highs weren't really high enough to achieve national recognition and the lows were so low that they couldn't be ignored or forgotten. I mean how many teams have fans die via electrocution during a goal post theft?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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kolbitr said:
Bonger's notes brought up this video for me...well worth watching for nostalgia's sake (and for the love of NFL films); huge shoulder pads, and different QB rules altogether...makes one really appreciate what it was like in the 80s and 90s to play offense...
 
Jon Bon Jovi acting like a faux-Jersey tough guy is absolutely hilarious.
 
Every tackle they show in the highlight would be a penalty today. Different game indeed.
 

Spelunker

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Jon Bon Jovi acting like a faux-Jersey tough guy is absolutely hilarious.
 
Every tackle they show in the highlight would be a penalty today. Different game indeed.
And every Tackle they show would be a Linebacker today. Very different players as well.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Spelunker said:
And every Tackle they show would be a Linebacker today. Very different players as well.
 
The week 13 MNF game and the NFC title rematch can both be found on youtube. Those two games set the standard for hard hitting football for me.
 
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5_i07XFGz8[/media]