Patriots' Priorities for the 2023 Season

rodderick

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8slim

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Not sure why people would expect Bill to be resistant to change. Now, he's a loyal guy so he isn't going to scapegoat guys he likes, and maybe he shifts them around, but... very few teams in the entire league have had as much overall coaching turnover as the Patriots in Bill's tenure. He's had tons of guys leave for HC jobs and take a bunch of mid-level staff with them. Flores took a bunch of guys in 2019, he just reloaded, added Mayo, shifted some guys around, moved Judge to WR coach, etc. Before this year McDaniels left and took a bunch of guys, he shifted some senior guys, moved Douglas to WR, Rothstein to Offense.

Bill is very willing to change his coaching staff.... I would assume he'll shuffle guys around, add a few, etc.
In the circumstance you cite, that’s change being imposed upon Bill. He hasn’t proactively changed staff all that often. Granted, he really hasn’t needed to since we’ve rarely seen poor coaching during his tenure.

My impression was very situational and it had to do with the talk that he installed Patricia/Judge as O coaches to create more long term continuity in the wake of McDaniels’ departure. I thought he may lean into that as rationale for keeping them in their roles. That’s all.
 

Gambler7

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Pats announce they are in discussions to keep Mayo and have begun the process of interviewing OC’s.

Cant recall them ever announcing these kinds of moves.

View: https://twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1613686228057997314?s=46&t=qEH1yi4HX2qcq-lsSbv_IA
View: https://twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1613686228057997314?s=46&t=-F_s9LGhoeEDmDsu5LJiZA


Pats are negotiating long term contract to keep Mayo with the team and will begin interviewing for a new OC
Well this is the most shocking thing to come from the Pariots in a long time. Appears Kraft has decided things need to change with how they operate. This is great news all around. So weird for them to announce things so specifically.
 

boca

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Will be interesting to see if Mayo signs a new deal without a title. You would imagine he would want to be DC but that’s unlikely with Steve Belichick in the building.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Will be interesting to see if Mayo signs a new deal without a title. You would imagine he would want to be DC but that’s unlikely with Steve Belichick in the building.
I was shocked they openly acknowledge an active negotiation with a coach that could leave. Either Bob is tripping or they really think they can get that extension done.
 

Cellar-Door

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What would be the likely responsibilities of an assistant HC?
Who knows, they don't have one this year, but the year before it was one Matt Patricia.
Different places they do different things, but it's often used to bring in a fired head coach, or "promote" a guy you want to keep from being poached.
 

tims4wins

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Who knows, they don't have one this year, but the year before it was one Matt Patricia.
Different places they do different things, but it's often used to bring in a fired head coach, or "promote" a guy you want to keep from being poached.
Pretty sure BB was assistant HC / DB coach in 1996 while Al Groh was the DC
 

BaseballJones

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A new offensive coordinator is a great idea. I know In Bill We Trust...but can we at least acknowledge that the Patricia/Judge experiment was very costly? Probably cost us a playoff berth and more importantly a year of positive development for Mac Jones.
Sure. But what’s done is done. Can’t undo the past. Can only learn from your mistakes and move forward.
 

Red Averages

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A new offensive coordinator is a great idea. I know In Bill We Trust...but can we at least acknowledge that the Patricia/Judge experiment was very costly? Probably cost us a playoff berth and more importantly a year of positive development for Mac Jones.
Yeah and part of that trust is that he’ll find a solution if he thinks there is a problem that needs addressing. And that’s exactly what he’s telling people he’ll do. So… In Bill We Trust.
 

tims4wins

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I just had the horrible thought they will interview candidates and then hire Patricia as OC. And here we were close to bedtime and I was happy.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Mixed emotions on Mayo. I certainly don't mind him staying, and nothing against him, but Steve Belichick has done an adequate enough job the last couple years, and with the number of holes we have I'd just as soon as get the 2 3rd round picks for Meyo leaving.
Eh. As was illustrated this year, one of the biggest holes involves a brain drain among the coaching staff. If you have a talented company guy who you think can be part of your future, keep him happy.
 

Cellar-Door

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A new offensive coordinator is a great idea. I know In Bill We Trust...but can we at least acknowledge that the Patricia/Judge experiment was very costly? Probably cost us a playoff berth and more importantly a year of positive development for Mac Jones.
Sure probably? Of course assuming a positive year of development for Jones is probably a stretch, QBs, particularly those without top end physical tools, develop or don't develop in unusual ways, and while the coordinator was bad, the line play is likely far more on players than anything, so Mac would still have dealt with adversity with any coordinator and knowing how he'd respond is difficult.

Edit- as an example, Mac spent the summer workign with House, one of the best in the business on mechanics and footwork. He showed up to camp/preseason and his footwork was hot garbage.
 

Ferm Sheller

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This is may be off the wall, but what about Charlie Weiss, Tom Brady's first OC? He's "only" 66. Or is he done with coaching and now just living the good life?
 

Ferm Sheller

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You don't think there are good OCs out there that are both younger and more in tune with the current game? I mean, why?
Maybe, but are they BB-approved? BB seems to like people who are in step with the "Belichick way" and Weiss certainly fits that bill (no pun intended). Brady developed under him and they're trying to develop a young QB now. He sucked as an HC, but had great success as an OC.
 

Salva135

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Well this is the most shocking thing to come from the Pariots in a long time. Appears Kraft has decided things need to change with how they operate. This is great news all around. So weird for them to announce things so specifically.
This is a good thing. I want an owner who recognizes there's a problem and is focused on keeping the fans happy. This is his business, not Belichick's. I'm sure BB would love to say absolutely nothing until a reporter spots a new face during training camp.
 

8slim

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I’m stunned at how public the Pats have been today in announcing the Mayo extension, seemingly ahead of it being finalized, and that an OC search has commenced. Has something like this ever been done in the BB era? I can’t recall it.

These both may be Bill’s decisions, but I have to think RKK demanded that the news of each be made transparent to the fan base to repair some frayed good will.
 

sezwho

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I would imagine Mayo would help meet the Rooney Rule. “Interview” him for DC, name him Assistant HC because he interviewed so well, and then just name Junior DC.
I think whats suggested would actually make things better for all parties. The new OC is actually empowered. Steve finally might get some credit. Mayo walked walk as a player and by all accounts is ready for the next step. I hope he gets the opportunity here.
 

BaseballJones

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In 2016, who were the players that opponents had to game plan for?

Blount was the leading rusher with 1,161 yds (just 3.9 y/a). The leading receivers were Edelman (98 rec, 1,106 yds), Hogan (38 rec, 680 yds), and Mitchell (32 rec, 401 yds). Our top TE was Bennett, as Gronk was injured. Bennett was a solid TE but not a guy you really needed to "game plan for" (55 rec, 701 yds). White caught passes out of the backfield but you really don't "game plan" tons for that (60 rec, 551 yds).

Edelman was the closest thing to what we're talking about but while he obviously was a terrific receiver, he never ever was thought of in the #1WR mold.

That said... I'd rather have those weapons than what the Pats have now, especially when you consider who the QB was.
 

Cellar-Door

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In 2016, who were the players that opponents had to game plan for?

Blount was the leading rusher with 1,161 yds (just 3.9 y/a). The leading receivers were Edelman (98 rec, 1,106 yds), Hogan (38 rec, 680 yds), and Mitchell (32 rec, 401 yds). Our top TE was Bennett, as Gronk was injured. Bennett was a solid TE but not a guy you really needed to "game plan for" (55 rec, 701 yds). White caught passes out of the backfield but you really don't "game plan" tons for that (60 rec, 551 yds).

Edelman was the closest thing to what we're talking about but while he obviously was a terrific receiver, he never ever was thought of in the #1WR mold.

That said... I'd rather have those weapons than what the Pats have now, especially when you consider who the QB was.
Had him for only 8 games but the answer is the same as basically every year he was on the team.... Rob Gronkowski.
 

BaseballJones

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Had him for only 8 games but the answer is the same as basically every year he was on the team.... Rob Gronkowski.
Right but without him they went 10-1 and won the Super Bowl. They didn't need that top guy you "game plan for" to win the Super Bowl, is the point. They had a bunch of good players, plus an all-world QB.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Had him for only 8 games but the answer is the same as basically every year he was on the team.... Rob Gronkowski.
GOAT TE who was a sixth OL and the most dynamic receiver on the field. Yep.

Edelman and White were not on his level, but they would destroy mismatches. Important not to forget just how effective of a receiver White was - he wasn’t just running flats/swing routes; he would split out and take LB or S in man coverage on intermediate and deep routes as well.
 

BaseballJones

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That 2016 team is WAY underrated historically. They went 14-2, had the #3 offense and #1 defense in the NFL, and the only two games they lost all year were (1) 16-0 to the Bills when Brady was suspended and Brissett (their #3 QB) played the entire game with a broken thumb on his throwing hand, and (2) the 31-24 loss to Seattle when the Pats had 1st and goal at the 2 yard line and somehow couldn't score.

That's it. They won 11 games by 10 points or more. A total wagon.
 

Shelterdog

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"We don't have one player you gotta game plan for."

Sounds familiar. We don't. We used to have a few, between WR and TE.
Honestly it sounds like something a fan(or pompous owner/owners kid) would say not a football professional in BB’s school. Pro teams game plan for everybody. I know it’s shorthand for “we don’t have a player who they have to dedicate substantial resources to slowing down” and it’s clearly right that we don’t have great talent on the receiving corp but I wouldn’t take this as proof that BB himself thinks that we should trade for a top WR or something
 

8slim

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Honestly it sounds like something a fan(or pompous owner/owners kid) would say not a football professional in BB’s school. Pro teams game plan for everybody. I know it’s shorthand for “we don’t have a player who they have to dedicate substantial resources to slowing down” and it’s clearly right that we don’t have great talent on the receiving corp but I wouldn’t take this as proof that BB himself thinks that we should trade for a top WR or something
Nah, that's how football guys talk too. And I think that's precisely the shorthand, which is true. Rham is the only guy on O that an opposing DC has to spend any time worried about, and even then I'm not sure it's anything more than the usual concern about stifling a good RB.

In 2018 an opposing DC had to worry about Gronk, and Edelman, and White out of the backfield. Hell you even had to keep an eye on Patterson. We have exactly no one of that caliber at the moment, save for Marcus Jones playing the Patterson role.

I think Bill tried with Agholor, Henry and Smith, but it just didn't work out.
 

rodderick

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Nah, that's how football guys talk too. And I think that's precisely the shorthand, which is true. Rham is the only guy on O that an opposing DC has to spend any time worried about, and even then I'm not sure it's anything more than the usual concern about stifling a good RB.

In 2018 an opposing DC had to worry about Gronk, and Edelman, and White out of the backfield. Hell you even had to keep an eye on Patterson. We have exactly no one of that caliber at the moment, save for Marcus Jones playing the Patterson role.

I think Bill tried with Agholor, Henry and Smith, but it just didn't work out.
In Bill's Football Life documentary there's the scene of him sitting in a meeting saying "all they have to do is double Moss up top and clamp down on Welker and there's nothing else we can do". Sometimes coaches just speak like fans when the issues are obvious.
 

Spelunker

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In 2016, who were the players that opponents had to game plan for?

Blount was the leading rusher with 1,161 yds (just 3.9 y/a). The leading receivers were Edelman (98 rec, 1,106 yds), Hogan (38 rec, 680 yds), and Mitchell (32 rec, 401 yds). Our top TE was Bennett, as Gronk was injured. Bennett was a solid TE but not a guy you really needed to "game plan for" (55 rec, 701 yds). White caught passes out of the backfield but you really don't "game plan" tons for that (60 rec, 551 yds).

Edelman was the closest thing to what we're talking about but while he obviously was a terrific receiver, he never ever was thought of in the #1WR mold.

That said... I'd rather have those weapons than what the Pats have now, especially when you consider who the QB was.
I don't think it really matters what the public thinks of as "#1 WR": Edelman was. And I'd wager teams very much gameplanned for him - if they didn't, that'd help explain why the offense was so good.
 

Shelterdog

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In Bill's Football Life documentary there's the scene of him sitting in a meeting saying "all they have to do is double Moss up top and clamp down on Welker and there's nothing else we can do". Sometimes coaches just speak like fans when the issues are obvious.
I’d contend that what BB said there was a lot more precise than we need guys you need to game plan for. In any event does anyone here think that it was BB who said to a reporter we need a receiver you need to game plan for? That really doesn’t sound like him (either in language or in divulging what the team needs)
 

tims4wins

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I’d contend that what BB said there was a lot more precise than we need guys you need to game plan for. In any event does anyone here think that it was BB who said to a reporter we need a receiver you need to game plan for? That really doesn’t sound like him (either in language or in divulging what the team needs)
"If you just take Moss away in the deep part of the field and get down on Welker, we're done. We can't run the ball, we can't throw it to anybody else, we're done."

That leans way more toward fanspeak than Xs and Os.
 

8slim

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I’d contend that what BB said there was a lot more precise than we need guys you need to game plan for. In any event does anyone here think that it was BB who said to a reporter we need a receiver you need to game plan for? That really doesn’t sound like him (either in language or in divulging what the team needs)
Who said that it was BB who was quoted?
 

Shelterdog

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Who said that it was BB who was quoted?
I said it didn’t sound like BB (or any pats football guy) three of you said no way that’s totally what BB and other football guys sounds like, so I’m trying to figure out if anyone disagrees with my conclusion that it’s probably a Kraft statement and I wouldn’t conclude that bb wants to spend big to get a high end receiver.
 

Super Nomario

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"If you just take Moss away in the deep part of the field and get down on Welker, we're done. We can't run the ball, we can't throw it to anybody else, we're done."

That leans way more toward fanspeak than Xs and Os.
That was the opposite sentiment expressed by the anonymous speaker there though. The 2009 Pats had two guys defenses needed to gameplan for, but they had Sam Aiken as their third receiver.
 

Cellar-Door

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I kind of agree that doesn't sound like a coach, or at least not in those terms, every game you have to gameplan around all the things a team does well and likes to do, Bill we see every week talking about all the things an opponent does well, guys who have some skillset, etc. If he swapped with another coach he'd talk about all the things you need to gameplan against the Patriots. Saying "nobody you have to gameplan" sounds like a non-coach to me. If they said... "nobody you need to double" or "nobody who stresses the defense" that I might buy being a coach.
 

lexrageorge

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Could Bill have uttered such words in frustration after a loss in which the ineptitude of the offense was again exposed? Sure. Would he or someone on his staff strategically give such a nugget to the media? Not sure about Belichick, but maybe another coach or scout. Or someone on the ownership side. Either way, not that big of a deal. It is indeed a correct statement, and having such a flaw makes it almost impossible to contend in today's NFL.

This team usually had Henry/Smith/Myers/Agholor/Parker running into the 2nd level of the defense or beyond. Defenses had to pay attention, sure, but none required any special handling. The 2016 Edelman and Hogan were better than any of this crew (and it wasn't close), and Bennett was a much better TE than either Smith or Henry. But I am far more down on this receiving crew than most here.
 

8slim

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I said it didn’t sound like BB (or any pats football guy) three of you said no way that’s totally what BB and other football guys sounds like, so I’m trying to figure out if anyone disagrees with my conclusion that it’s probably a Kraft statement and I wouldn’t conclude that bb wants to spend big to get a high end receiver.
Who knows, but it’s someone who’s close to the situation and it’s something that was said here repeatedly this season.
 

Cellar-Door

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Who knows, but it’s someone who’s close to the situation and it’s something that was said here repeatedly this season.
Well it's someone "in the org" so they might well be physically close more than have any knowledge or capacity beyond the average fan, which I think was the point.

Edit- to be more clear. With anonymous sourced "nuggets" you have to look at the language, context and how it is presented to determine what if any value it has. The language, context and "crediting" of that make it pretty clear it isn't someone on the football side, so... what value does an assesment of our skill position talent by the VP of ticket sales, or the assistant to the assistant to Mr. Kraft have? basically no more than the dumb Curran rants people post.
 
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8slim

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Well it's someone "in the org" so they might well be physically close more than have any knowledge or capacity beyond the average fan, which I think was the point.

Edit- to be more clear. With anonymous sourced "nuggets" you have to look at the language, context and how it is presented to determine what if any value it has. The language, context and "crediting" of that make it pretty clear it isn't someone on the football side, so... what value does an assesment of our skill position talent by the VP of ticket sales, or the assistant to the assistant to Mr. Kraft have? basically no more than the dumb Curran rants people post.
OK but isn’t Girardi a pretty good source? If it came from someone as far flung as you suggest, would he report that? Seems like a credible reporter is going to mention it only if it comes from someone who is relevant.
 

Cellar-Door

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OK but isn’t Girardi a pretty good source? If it came from someone as far flung as you suggest, would he report that? Seems like a credible reporter is going to mention it only if it comes from someone who is relevant.
He's throwing it in with a bunch of other stuff like 4 or 5 quote tweets deep, and not in a real story. Also, the Vp of tickets was mostly a joke, it's from someone close to the owner or someone else in the executive suite would be my guess. But also... that's part of how you get stories, you carry some water. That tweet is doing 2 things... 1 staking out a positive position on BOB by someone in the non-football side (so ownership or business side, not under Bill), and that person is also taking a bit of a shot at Bill's roster construction, perhaps to put public pressure for a move that Bill might be reticent to do (like a Hopkins trade, or drafting a WR in the 1st, etc.). People with "good" sources get them by doing favors and inside baseball.
 

Salva135

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Tom Brady

I was going to say this. Tom Brady was a cheat code at the time. Stop looking at what the Pats were able to get away with back then, because we don't have him and we have to play by the rules that every NFL team has to play with now. An elite skill player is as important to this team as it is to every team not named the Chiefs.