Pats QB Options
- Thread starter Mugsy's Jock
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My bad... I guess for me I wish there was a guy on day 2 who I would feel more comfortable banging the table for. Mills has a bad injury history and is inconsistent. Mills hasn’t had a statement game. A near flawless display of first round QB kind of talent. Mond has. Mond though has too many bad games. Mond has been slowing getting better but his accuracy is below average and he doesn't handle or sense pressure well at all. Arm strength is middling. Has issues reading defenses. Newman has the best tools but he is the biggest stretch to fit into an EP kind of system. Maddening. They all have a reason for taking them sometime late day 2 or early day 3 but none of them inspire much hope. Every time I start to feel more comfortable with one of them I immediately pull back when I look at some of the weaknesses.
I almost feel like it would be nice if they just accumulated capital for next year and made the push for a QB next year after another year of filling roster critical positions. I wouldn't hate it if they didn't draft a QB until day 3 or not at all especially if they got OT/CB/IDL early.
I've been trying to get SMU's take on Franks for the last week. He has the 2nd best TE measurable in the draft - closer to Kyle Pitts than the next guy is to him lol
You know who Franks reminds me of? Ryan Mallett. I went to review my notes on him compared to PFF and Bruglar.
I think they nailed it. He is Nuke. No touch. Doesn't go through progressions even when it isn't RPO. He doesn't throw his guys open. His ball placement is lacking. He is immobile. He is AWFUL under pressure.
I have a hard time comping a guy who runs a 4.55 to a guy who runs a 5.39. Also feel like Franks has more drive to be good then Mallet ever did.
But obviously he's a project QB with outs to be a TE or ST contributor.
I don't think Edelman was expected to be drafted as a QB, so I don't see that as equivalent. BB said (after the Rams Super Bowl) that they didn't view Edelman as a QB in that draft. They worked him out at other positions too.
Danny Etling is another QB who BB tried converting. He also moved Troy Brown to DB rather than signing someone when we had injuries back there. Cordorelle Patterson and Aaron Hernandez are a couple others BB moved to the backfield in certain formations.
Etling might be the best counter example. Etling had a bit of time to try to be a QB and as a last gasp to keep an NFL job he tried TE. BB certainly isn't afraid of moving people around- DTs can play FB, LBs can play TE etc. Playing QB is different, particularly when they have as far to go as Franks. Franks can't afford to spend time learning how to block or run routes.
Just for those who are curious: HT: @Mathbomb on twitter
I ran Feleipe Franks and his RAS at 3 different positions. It's his relative athletic score. It also has his testing.
I ran Feleipe Franks and his RAS at 3 different positions. It's his relative athletic score. It also has his testing.
As a QB
As a tight end:
As a WR:
{/spoiler]
As a tight end:
As a WR:
{/spoiler]
But isn’t that probably the case with Franks? Teams looking at him see a guy with great a size/inline speed package with large hands and a great wingspan. His physical traits are elite for a receiver. As a QB he isn’t very good at the college level, and mostly because of accuracy/ touch issues combined with bad reads. Why would anyone expect him to magically turn into a starting QB at the next level?
I don't think so. He has the tools to be an NFL QB. He has good arm strength and his mechanics are pretty sound. I think his accuracy issues, though real, are a bit overstated. I think there will be several teams willing to roll the dice that they can coach up the mental aspects of the game. He doesn't have to turn into a good starting QB immediately as a late round pick, he just needs to be good enough to justify a roster spot as a backup.
His touch, accuracy, and reads are pretty bad. To be brutally frank I expect his NFL career to be about 3-4 years of bumping around NFL practice squads before moving on with his life. I just think he has a slightly higher chance of actually playing in games as a 3rd TE.
I was surprised they even bothered trying to convert Etling. He was not that big & not that fast.
Franks just needs to gain muscle if he wants to try TE, but I don't think he's as lost of a cause as some of the QBs who are going to be drafted before him as a QB either.
Regardless, sorry I caused this convo to get way out of line in the "QB options" thread because he's really not one of those right now regardless.
Franks just needs to gain muscle if he wants to try TE, but I don't think he's as lost of a cause as some of the QBs who are going to be drafted before him as a QB either.
Regardless, sorry I caused this convo to get way out of line in the "QB options" thread because he's really not one of those right now regardless.
Maybe if he’d work more on his fundamentals rather than always trying to hot dog it we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I've come around to the view that this is the year for the Patriots to roll the dice and burn some assets. The one-in-a million Tom Brady lightning strike lottery winner is not going to happen again.
If we package Stephon Gilmore, #15, #46. and a future first, would that be enough to get Atlanta to deal #4?
If we do that and end up with Fields, I will be very happy. If we do that and end up with Lance, I will be happy but also very nervous.
If we package Stephon Gilmore, #15, #46. and a future first, would that be enough to get Atlanta to deal #4?
If we do that and end up with Fields, I will be very happy. If we do that and end up with Lance, I will be happy but also very nervous.
With all the recent gossip and chatter I was sure the draft started tonight. I can't believe it's not for two weeks.
I thought the issue with Tebow is that a. he didn't want to convert, and b. he wasn't smart.
Edelman seems pretty smart, so he had the desire to stay in the game, and had the intelligence and football knowledge to be able to convert to a really good receiver.
Right. Judging how smart guys are by what you see on TV is kind of a waste of time.
I've been on the Jamie Newman bandwagon forever. I see him as the anti Mac Jones in terms of opportunity. While Alabama has 5 star high school recruits at every postion Wake has none. Wake is lucky to get a 3 star recruit at any skill position. They have no receivers/OL/RB who have anywhere near the speed or skill sets of any of Alabama's players. As a result, Clawson has to run a basic offense that maximizes the abilities of these players. Personally, I think he does a great job with the cards he is dealt. He gets his team to a bowl game just about every year and he wins most of them. Not bad for the smallest P5 school with not much of a football history. I see Newman's "weaknesses" as being a direct result of the offensive system in which he played. If Newman played for Alabama last year, I think he would be in the conversation as a first round pick. I was very much looking forward to him playing at UGA because I think that would have provided him the opportunity to show that he could compete at the highest level. I even remember reading pre season internet headlines after he signed with UGA that he might be the best QB in the SEC in 2020 and a top contender for the Heisman. DawgNation
The fact that he opted out is going to hurt him and but I don't think he will make it through round 3 before someone takes a chance on him.
Learning TE seems like an insurmountable task - learn blocking techniques and the schemes plus all the receiving skills?
In the run up to his draft several teams sounded him out on moving to TE, but he wanted to play QB. By the time he busted out as a QB it was a little late to make the change.
If you’re saying that Franks is unlikely to do anything outside scuffle around practice squads for a few years then we’re in agreement. I don’t think learning to run routes (the job of TE3s) is insurmountable. And QBs do tend to have good hands, which is why NFL teams have moved the athletic ones that don’t have a future at QB to receiving positions.
I’m picturing the first practice session when he has to block Hightower 1v1 in space....
It's true - she basically stopped tweeting about her son as soon as he got to Jacksonville.
https://mobile.twitter.com/heather_luton7?lang=en
Ah, good call. I feel lied to by the internet. Beathard is a perfectly acceptable backup.
It's a 2/$5m/$2.75m so Beathard is almost assured of being on opening day roster, so yeah, they'll almost certainly take highest bid on Minshew.
Idk if I'm that excited about Minshew, but the salary cap hit is low... we'd owe him $850k this year & $965k next year.
Seems like Mac Jones and the Bosa family will get along:
It is from 2012 but there is always a tweet. Of course these are the kinds of things that surface right before the draft too.
Edit: his sister posted it. It is not clear if it is Mac in the picture or not.
It is from 2012 but there is always a tweet. Of course these are the kinds of things that surface right before the draft too.
Edit: his sister posted it. It is not clear if it is Mac in the picture or not.
So it’s from almost 9 years ago, meaning he was what -12, 13? when this was taken?
Even if it is him in it - I’m not holding a 12 year old accountable for something like this.
Maybe its just coincidence or the non-factor of WRs in the wishbone, but in the 70s there was a run of successful college QB's that ended up at DB, not WR -- Jack Mildren, Rex Kern, Dungy, and Nolan Cromwell.
Josh Allen's n word tweets came out around now. The next two weeks are when a ton of the weird, strange, controversial stuff comes out. Like pictures of people in cannabis-gas-masks. In Mac Jones case I don't think this makes a difference. If anything the DUI on his record is the one coaches will be more concerned about but apparently he's completely turned around from that point in his life in regards to maturity and decision making.
I'll retract the phrase "not smart", because of the pejorative nature of it.
But, I wasn't really basing that comment on his public persona.
There was some chatter around the league that he was not mentally processing the game very well. There is some discussion of him having dyslexia, which may have affected his ability to absorb playbook information and also to read defenses. So, the guy might be really smart in certain contexts and not others. I'm no expert on that, but here's an example I found about his ability to process the game...his "football smarts" if you will.
https://nesn.com/2013/05/report-tim-tebow-struggled-badly-with-mental-parts-of-playing-football-has-nfl-thinking-he-cant-pick-up-game/
I don't know enough about Fleming, so apologies in advance if he's an unreliable narrator.
Anyway, a tangent, I know.
How do you know this? I know his sister tweeted it, but she also tagged Mac, so it's not clear to me.
For the record, I don't care much about what people posted when they were 17, nevermind 12.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t46hOHr--zQ
This guy is an OSU insider, he has a pretty solid track record. Being an OSU fan I was hoping JF would wind up with the Pats but Niners always made the most sense. Really hoping the Pats don't wind up with Jones, I don't think he is a particularly special prospect. I'd consider moving up to take Lance if he slips into the 10 range, I think he's too much of an unknown for what it would cost to move up to 4.
This guy is an OSU insider, he has a pretty solid track record. Being an OSU fan I was hoping JF would wind up with the Pats but Niners always made the most sense. Really hoping the Pats don't wind up with Jones, I don't think he is a particularly special prospect. I'd consider moving up to take Lance if he slips into the 10 range, I think he's too much of an unknown for what it would cost to move up to 4.
If Fields goes #3 that potentially takes New England out of the QB market this year. That puts a lot of pressure on Denver to move up to #4 if they want Lance to be their QB of the future. Which would leave New England trading multiple firsts for Mac Jones, which might just be too rich for their blood. Minshew then? It's going to be a retread of some sort.
I expect that if it's not a rookie it's Cam (barring something like Jimmy G getting released, then it would be a competition, and either half Cam, Half Jimmy G, or all Cam).
I'm not sure that Cam's a long term answer. It will be disappointing if all four QBs are gone by #4 leaving New England hoping that Mac Jones slides into the teens. Jamie Newman doesn't do a lot for me as a long term answer at the QB spot. But I like his chances more than Mond's.
If the QBs are gone before NE can pick, at least we can be pretty sure that NE will have another great player available at #15, even if it's not at the position we'd prefer. I don't think BB will swing and miss with that pick in that situation.
Do you mean ‘long term’ as in a full season? Or 2-3 years?
next off season is another chance to trade up for, trade for, or sign a QB. Especially if he were to trade down this year, he might be able to use
draft capital to trade for someone next offseason.
He might prefer to trade for someone he knows more about (because of their time in the league) than the Crapshoot of drafting the 4th or 5th best QB in this years draft.
Edit: Trading down this year might get him the pieces to trade for next years Wentz or what have you.
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