It's an absolute joke that Smoltz gets more than three times the votes Mussina got.
But it is what it is.
But it is what it is.
Pedro, Smoltz, Biggio, and RJ get into HOF
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I listened to Boomer Esiason make this exact argument on my drive to work this morning. "216 wins...I don't know...".Detts said:
They had to let Smoltz in. He was better in the postseason than Maddux and Glavine, and they got in, so...
Enrique Rojas/ESPN @Enrique_Rojas1 28s28 seconds agoBoston, MA
Todo listo para rueda de prensa de @45PedroMartinez #PedroHOF en Fenway Park
Todo listo para rueda de prensa de @45PedroMartinez #PedroHOF en Fenway Park
Esiason has a point. 216 wins are only 41 more than Koufax. (Of course, Koufax did win the MVP award...)
Michael Silverman @MikeSilvermanBB 1m1 minute ago
In case you were wondering, LaVelle E. Neal III and George King did vote for Pedro.
In case you were wondering, LaVelle E. Neal III and George King did vote for Pedro.
Michael Silverman @MikeSilvermanBB 2m2 minutes ago
In case you were wondering, LaVelle E. Neal III and George King did vote for Pedro.
In case you were wondering, LaVelle E. Neal III and George King did vote for Pedro.
Doug Beerabelli said:
That can't be right. Everyone tells me that Jeter is the second best SS of all time.
foulkehampshire said:
It's an interesting question. Schilling has a tiny advantage in wins, losses, total strikeouts, strikeout rate, walk rate, fWAR, ERA-, FIP-, (and pretty much everything under the "advanced" tab in a fangraphs comparison). They are very similar pitchers except for the fact that Smoltz also has a great run as a reliever at the end of his career, amassing 154 saves to Curt's 22, which helped Smoltz to build more innings. Of course, that also had a positive influence on his rate stats, which should be a point in Schilling's favor.
Here's a link to their careers side by side at fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=1974&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=115,73
Edit: I think Smoltz getting in as easily as he did should make the case for Schilling a bit stronger going forward.
I sincerely hope they eliminate the rule of 10. It's arbitrary and causes decisions like the one Olney made this year. My ballot would have had 19 guys on it, all of which I feel I could make compelling arguments about.Ed Hillel said:
Unless the rule of 10 changes, I suspect next year will be Griffey, Hoffman and Piazza.
I think at some point, when someone is getting less than 2% of the vote, the jackasses who cast the ballots for these players should have their ballots sent back and asked nicely to actually give the vote to a deserving candidate. Biggio had to wait a year for no particular reason, and I'm guessing two of his votes could have been found among the morons that gave votes to Jacque Jones, Armando Benitez, Hideo Nomo, JT Snow, and Kenny Rogers.
Pete Abraham @PeteAbe
One blank ballot was submitted among the 549, HoF says.
I really hope this voter steps forward to be identified. It's one thing to protest the way Olney did by not submitting at all (and therefore not affecting any player's chances) but what does a blank ballot accomplish?
One blank ballot was submitted among the 549, HoF says.
I really hope this voter steps forward to be identified. It's one thing to protest the way Olney did by not submitting at all (and therefore not affecting any player's chances) but what does a blank ballot accomplish?
mt8thsw9th said:
There was a ballot and explanation posted upthread (may have been the tracker thread) that basically stated that he'd "forgotten" to put someone on the list the year before, and that he was dead set against Biggio, but "changed his mind" this year. The tone of it--and the whole "I covered JT Snow and I'm gonna throw him a vote" stuff--struck me as someone treating the vote as a lark. Like a fun fringe benefit to their job that they were free to take as seriously as they deemed fit.
I mean, it isn't exactly the most important thing in the world, but it really seems like a huge chunk of them don't really take it very seriously.
It's a lot of fun. I've gone every year since '99.JimD said:
Anyone have a video stream of the Red Sox press conference with Pedro?
I just can't fathom why so many people (8.9%) did not vote for one of top-3 post-Vietnam pitchers in the game.
JimD said:
Yep. I'm going to float a trip to Cooperstown to my fiance when she gets home. We love going to Lake George and visiting Ommegang, so I might be able to convince her.
I never minded the courtesy votes for guys that will never get in provided that it didn't cost someone else their candidacy. Up until a few years ago there weren't 10 hall of famers on each ballot. It's a way for a writer to do something nice for a guy that may have given him a story or two. The opposite probably also happened this year with Pedro and RJ, guys that wanted to get 11 or 12 guys on their ballot may not have voted for those two, knowing they would get in. The rule of 10 is a huge problem now. I'd love to see how many writers submitted full ballots. Number indicate that it was more than 25%.mt8thsw9th said:
BoSoxFink said:
Playing in NY isn't always a positive. If they switch teams, Biggio would get a lot more shit for his postseason hitting.
HangingW/ScottCooper said:
I dunno. The guys who deserve to get in will get in, although it might take some of them 5-10 years before it happens. This logjam won't last nearly long enough to consider changing the entire process. I mean, really, in 10 years are there going to still be 6 legit HOFers on the ballot, never mind 11?
Kevin Millar said on MLBN, Pedro looks like a Dominican boat captain with his suit and hat. Haha
Hoffman gets in on the 1st ballot because there are no steroid suspicions about him. Add in the run of closers going in over the last 10 years and I'd be shocked if he doesn't get in next year.drleather2001 said:
Meanwhile, am I the only one who thinks it's a shame that Delgado's off the ballot after his first year of eligibility? He may not be a HOFer, but he put up some beastly numbers for a stretch and you could have a nice debate about his candidacy.
For those of you thinking about heading up to Cooperstown, you better book it now. It is not a big town and it will be completely swamped that weekend.
The Allented Mr Ripley said:
I'm with you. Ten straight years of 30+ HRs is a remarkable run. Unfortunately he did it in an era when 40 HRs were what 30 HRs used to be (and are again).
Vinho Tinto said:
...and he would've hit in a pantload more postseasons. So who knows? Maybe he ups his numbers, maybe his lackluster postseason performance would've been the same in pinstripes.
No, but the list of guys not in the Hall of Fame that people think should be in the Hall of Fame will be a lot longer. Someone like Raines will most assuredly get in via the Veterans committee if the writers don't vote him in, but I doubt the same will be true of Clemens and Bonds.drleather2001 said:
Count me amongst those people that think the era needs to be considered in it's entirety and you can't pick and choose who did and didn't do steroids. That includes those people that have positive tests. There are known and unknown cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Judge the players in the context of the era, not what they may or may not have done to enhance themselves.
This is a different issue than the Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Ed Cicotte conversation. Those players were banned from baseball and therefore not eligible. The steroid players are all eligible to be in the Hall of Fame, but you have a series of writers that will never vote for a guy that has one sniff of a steroid on his resume.
The Allented Mr Ripley said:
You want an interesting comparison? Look at Jim Rice and Carlos Delgado side by side. I'm in the camp that Rice was a marginal candidate and probably shouldn't have gotten in, so that means Delgado shouldn't have, either, but the two are closer than I would have expected.
Bill Shaikin @BillShaikin 9s9 seconds ago
Hall of Fame ballots with all 10 spots used: 51%, up from 50% last year and 22% in 2013. Average ballot had 8.4 votes.
HOF needs to be fixed ASAP
Hall of Fame ballots with all 10 spots used: 51%, up from 50% last year and 22% in 2013. Average ballot had 8.4 votes.
HOF needs to be fixed ASAP
If you buy the notion that Hoffman gets in on the first ballot--and I'm a bit less than positive about that--are we looking at Hoffman, Griffey, and Piazza?
Anyone know what the biggest jump in votes has been? Bagwell would have to jump more than 20 points and Raines almost thirty.
Anyone know what the biggest jump in votes has been? Bagwell would have to jump more than 20 points and Raines almost thirty.