Pitching Targets

[alwyn96]

The pitcher market: Slim pickings, and plummeting like a bomb.

This feels like one of the worst trade deadline markets in years. Just brutal.

I'm trying to talk myself into a slightly used Dan Straily. Profoundly uninspiring, but a warm body. He was available for free on waivers in April, so you wouldn't think he'd cost too much. He isn't the strongest bet to make it to the end of the season either, though.

 

[moondog80]

Um, you do understand that we are talking about adding him to a deal for a starting pitcher, right?

I agree that the fly in the ointment is what the hell you do with him for the rest of 2016.

The fly in the ointment is what to do with Butler ever. Because he's a below average hitter, and worst in the league bad at everything else. If taking him on in a deal significantly lowers the cost of whoever in terms of prospects, I'm all for it. But he's not worth a roster spot.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

I wouldn't trade Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza, or Devers. I could be persuaded to move Devers if a top of the rotation starter was coming back and Devers was the centerpiece of the deal. But since that's almost certainly not going to be enough, I'd try to add a lower level starter or two and see if they can be an improvement over our awful 4-5 spots.

This is exactly the way I feel. I would add Kopech to the list of players that I wouldn't trade (unless a top of the rotation starter is coming back).

We need E-Rod to solidify the 3rd rotation spot. Thus: Price, Wright, E-Rod, Porcello, and ???. Maybe Buchholz finally gets on a roll and locks up the 5th spot; or maybe Owens can get the job done. Brian Johnson is a possibility as well (after all, we are talking about needing a 5th starter). The Red Sox should also be active in the trade market for a 4th or 5th starter who won't cost one of the aforementioned prospects.

 

[simplicio]

I guess the question (these are all questions anyway) is, "would you be in favor of the Red Sox getting 1/2 a season of Rich Hill for $15M in a cash deal with no prospects?" Valid question.

What should they give up for 1/2 a season of a fragile Hill (that Beane would buy into)...and who's the competition (a lot, I assume)?

Fucked if I know.

edit: Right now the Red Sox have 2 super-subs (injured Holt & Martinez) plus Aaron Hill. Martinez is expendable - he's gone when Young returns, right? It still means a Butler has no place on the roster once Young is healthy.

Butler in this hypothetical deal doesn't need to take up a spot on the roster, as he goes all expenses paid direct to Chicago for some lottery ticket so they can send Avisail Garcia (he of the declining MLB WRC+, from 100 in '14 to 72 presently) packing.

But I still think Beane never lets Hill go without getting something real in return, not this year.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

I realize that. But last I checked there were two question marks in the five man rotation. Even adding Hill (who's not someone that should be counted on to finish the year in the rotation even if he stays healthy), there's still the question of the fifth guy. Until that spot is resolved satisfactorily, I wouldn't want to shorten the bullpen in order to carry 5 bench players, which is what BP was originally suggesting as a way to fit Butler in.

OTOH, all four of Price, Porcello, and Wright are averaging well over 6-1/3 IP/GS each.

It's certainly possible to maintain the bullpen, carry 5 bench players, and only acquire 1 SP, if the Sox could just squeeze an average of 5-2/3 IP/GS out of the 4 and 5. It would take separating the 4 and 5 with either Wright or Price. Then, build the bullpen with two long men and four 1-inning relievers. When Kimbrel's activated, everyone bumps down a rung.

I understand there's no good solution to taking on Butler, but if it means getting Hill without giving up any of the Sox top-7 prospects or Blake Swihart, then I'm all for pursuing a less-than-perfect option which also allows the team to hold onto even guys like Kopech and Devers.

A second option, of course, would be just releasing Butler and eating the money. This may be the best choice.

A third option, would be to use Hill as the everyday 3B this season and Brentz/Young as the everyday LF, in order to leverage the flexibility of Shaw and Holt/Martinez to cover every position defensively with a short bench. Butler would be the primary RH bat off the bench, Shaw the primary LH bat. Again, it's not perfect, and IMO less attractive an option than #1 or #2 above.

None of the options are perfect, but there may be one that's good enough.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

OTOH, all four of Price, Porcello, and Wright are averaging well over 6-1/3 IP/GS each.

It's certainly possible to maintain the bullpen, carry 5 bench players, and only acquire 1 SP, if the Sox could just squeeze an average of 5-2/3 IP/GS out of the 4 and 5. It would take separating the 4 and 5 with either Wright or Price. Then, build the bullpen with two long men and four 1-inning relievers. When Kimbrel's activated, everyone bumps down a rung.

I understand there's no good solution to taking on Butler, but if it means getting Hill without giving up any of the Sox top-7 prospects or Blake Swihart, then I'm all for pursuing a less-than-perfect option which also allows the team to hold onto even guys like Kopech and Devers.

A second option, of course, would be just releasing Butler and eating the money. This may be the best choice.

A third option, would be to use Hill as the everyday 3B this season and Brentz/Young as the everyday LF, in order to leverage the flexibility of Shaw and Holt/Martinez to cover every position defensively with a short bench. Butler would be the primary RH bat off the bench, Shaw the primary LH bat. Again, it's not perfect, and IMO less attractive an option than #1 or #2 above.

None of the options are perfect, but there may be one that's good enough.

That's a lot of manuevering just to get a pitcher who is absolutely not the answer (if it isn't obvious, the only price I'd pay for Hill is free). I think it's wishful thinking to consider him a fix for this rotation. Short term, if his groin is healthy, he gives them a viable 4th starter. But that isnt going to last the season, let alone into the postseason they hope to make. He simply won't have the stamina to last.

Taking on an extra player that they have to bend over backwards to fit on the roster or pay $15M to go away just isn't worth it.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

OTOH, all four of Price, Porcello, and Wright are averaging well over 6-1/3 IP/GS each.
....

If we could get the rest of the league to buy into this math, we might be able to wiggle our way through the 2d half.

I'm in favor of creative solutions that avoid giving up top 5 prospect value. If I had to guess, I think DD is going to try to convince a team to take our "MLB"-ready guys led by Shaw, and other "high upside" chips like, um, Owens, to get a Hellickson-like innings eater. And then hope E-Rod or Clay remembers how to pitch by September.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

The fly in the ointment is what to do with Butler ever. Because he's a below average hitter, and worst in the league bad at everything else. If taking him on in a deal significantly lowers the cost of whoever in terms of prospects, I'm all for it. But he's not worth a roster spot.

Not against LHP he's not. But admittedly in this era of short benches that single skill is probably not enough to justify a roster spot. It's hard out there for a one-trick pony these days.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

I still think Jorge De La Rosa makes a lot of sense given his turnaround since the slow start. I don't know what the cost would be, but clearly no where near the top four category.

 

[YTF]

Butler and Sandoval could, in theory, platoon at DH in 2017.

Truly a waste of money, but if it could help bring in pitching this season, it might be worth it. Especially considering how much surplus value is being generated by the minimum salary guys this year and next.

I'd personally rather get Hellickson or Cashner for a lower price, keep all the top 6 prospects, and re-address the situation in the winter. But getting some Country Breakfast wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

In actuality, you would be committing $27.6 million to that platoon in 2017. As for the Hill/Butler financial aspect of this. Just a tad under $8 million this season plus the $10 million due Butler for next season. So we're talking $18 Million for a possible 15-16 regular season starts, a wasted roster spot in 2017 (IMO) and you STILL need to figure out what to do with Butler this season. Oh and all of this for a guy who hasn't even sniffed 100 IP since 2007 and is at 76 IP currently and injured. One last thought, at this point Country Breakfast is little more than an Egg McMuffin. Nothing special that can be had all day, everyday.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I still think Jorge De La Rosa makes a lot of sense given his turnaround since the slow start. I don't know what the cost would be, but clearly no where near the top four category.

I'm sorry; you need to access the Pitching Targets thread. This is the Billy Butler thread

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

If we could get the rest of the league to buy into this math, we might be able to wiggle our way through the 2d half.

I'm in favor of creative solutions that avoid giving up top 5 prospect value. If I had to guess, I think DD is going to try to convince a team to take our "MLB"-ready guys led by Shaw, and other "high upside" chips like, um, Owens, to get a Hellickson-like innings eater. And then hope E-Rod or Clay remembers how to pitch by September.

I blame common core...and Monty Python.

Considering that Hughes and Perkins are both out for the rest of 2016, perhaps Santana could be had from the Twins for less than top-5 talent, assuming there were several MLB-ready chips included and the Sox pick up all the remaining salary.

The Twins pitching staff is such a complete disaster, even Joe Kelly might have some positive value. As ridiculous as that idea appears when written down.

 

[Rasputin]

At this point who would you suggest if we do not give up one, maybe two of the big four. You may have made many suggestions throughout this thread but it has become so lengthy I'd ask for you to mention them again. It is my impression that you feel a mid-level pitcher - a stead #3 who can give yon innings - is all that is needed. Am I right in assuming that you feel Price, Wright & Porcello with a little help can set the rotation on an even keel.

I don't think that's all that's needed, I think it's all that's available at anything resembling a reasonable price. I'm not willing to throw a gajillion prospects at the Braves for Teheran. I'm staying away from Gray. I don't even think those guys are available. I'd love to add a legitimate ace to this staff. I don't think it can be done and I sure as hell am not making an ace caliber trade for a guy who isn't an ace.

Also consider this. Of the six teams leading their divisions, which one is the worst? By record, they are the Giants, Rangers, Indians, Cubs, Nationals, and Orioles. By run differential, the Cubs are pretty clearly #1.

Is there a pitcher available that can make this team better than the Cubs? I don't think there is. I think that would take an ace and I don't think any of them are available.

But what would it take to make this team better than the Orioles and Blue Jays? I mean, arguably, this team already is better, but if you solidified the back end of the rotation, you'd come close to guaranteeing that the division is in play. That means there's a move worth making.

What can we trade that isn't Kopech and above?

Chavis, Basabe, and Dubon are all quality prospects.Guys like Johnson, Elias, and Owens still have some young guy value.

What if a trade were Basabe, Dubon, and Roniel Raudes for Jeremy Hellickson? That feels like a lot to give up for a guy like Hellickson, but it's always going to feel like a lot to give up no matter what you give up because a guy like Hellickson just isn't that exciting.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

The fun part will be doing this dance all over again in the offseason while also trying to replace Ortiz.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

The fun part will be doing this dance all over again in the offseason while also trying to replace Ortiz.

The great unexpected news is that Hanley is no longer a lock for that role due to his surprising performance at 1B.

 

[nvalvo]

Should we try to "replace" Ortiz, by which I mean, add a single bat who would be a threat to post a 1.000 OPS? Or does it make more sense, considering the continuing offensive emergence of Bradley and Bogaerts, to plow resources into trades for mid-rotation pitching while lengthening the lineup with Moncada and Benintendi?

I'd vote for the latter. I think it should be possible, especially if Swihart is back as part of the catching tandem, to put together a lineup that would project to post an wRC+ close to or above 100 1-9. That could be insanely productive.

Then again, it might be easier to find the pieces for a trade for SP if we're bringing in, say, Edwin Encarnacion to fill Shaw's spot in the order.

 

[Rasputin]

Should we try to "replace" Ortiz, by which I mean, add a single bat who would be a threat to post a 1.000 OPS? Or does it make more sense, considering the continuing offensive emergence of Bradley and Bogaerts, to plow resources into trades for mid-rotation pitching while lengthening the lineup with Moncada and Benintendi?

I'd vote for the latter. I think it should be possible, especially if Swihart is back as part of the catching tandem, to put together a lineup that would project to post an wRC+ close to or above 100 1-9. That could be insanely productive.

Then again, it might be easier to find the pieces for a trade for SP if we're bringing in, say, Edwin Encarnacion to fill Shaw's spot in the order.

No big contracts to players that old. I want to build on the younger guys.

We're set at two outfield spots, short and second. We'll have Shaw and Ramirez to cover third, first, and DH. We have to consider the possibility/probability that Moncada and/or Benintendi aren't ready to start with the big club to start the season. We'll need to have someone to platoon with Young in left and to platoon with Shaw wherever plus someone who can be full time at first, third, or DH. And all of those guys need to be disposable if/when Moncada and Benintendi are ready.

If Sandoval is healthy enough to play, he can at least platoon, but it would have to be a platoon with Young, which means we'd need an everyday player to play left against righties and first/third against lefties.

It's a mess. That's a lot of roles to fit into not that many bodies.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

If Sandoval is healthy enough to play, he can at least platoon, but it would have to be a platoon with Young, which means we'd need an everyday player to play left against righties and first/third against lefties.

Isn't that Holt?

 

[Rasputin]

Isn't that Holt?

It certainly could be, but we've seen the dangers of having your primary backup infielder also be someone who plays every day.

If Sandoval, Young, and Holt have left and third covered, and Hanley has first covered, then you can essentially platoon any position player with Shaw at DH. Or maybe it's Sandoval DHing and Shaw playing third, whatever. It means an injury to Holt fucks your roster because you either find yourself another Holt, find a way to get two people into one roster spot, or hope the guy on the AAA shuttle complements your other bench option well enough to go forward with two platoons.

 

[E5 Yaz]

So ... folks ... pitching targets?

 

[nvalvo]

So ... folks ... pitching targets?

Yeah, sorry. We should maybe start a thread about thinking about the relationship between deadline moves and the offseason.

 

[PapaSox]

I don't think that's all that's needed, I think it's all that's available at anything resembling a reasonable price. I'm not willing to throw a gajillion prospects at the Braves for Teheran. I'm staying away from Gray. I don't even think those guys are available. I'd love to add a legitimate ace to this staff. I don't think it can be done and I sure as hell am not making an ace caliber trade for a guy who isn't an ace.

Also consider this. Of the six teams leading their divisions, which one is the worst? By record, they are the Giants, Rangers, Indians, Cubs, Nationals, and Orioles. By run differential, the Cubs are pretty clearly #1.

Is there a pitcher available that can make this team better than the Cubs? I don't think there is. I think that would take an ace and I don't think any of them are available.

But what would it take to make this team better than the Orioles and Blue Jays? I mean, arguably, this team already is better, but if you solidified the back end of the rotation, you'd come close to guaranteeing that the division is in play. That means there's a move worth making.

What can we trade that isn't Kopech and above?

Chavis, Basabe, and Dubon are all quality prospects.Guys like Johnson, Elias, and Owens still have some young guy value.

What if a trade were Basabe, Dubon, and Roniel Raudes for Jeremy Hellickson? That feels like a lot to give up for a guy like Hellickson, but it's always going to feel like a lot to give up no matter what you give up because a guy like Hellickson just isn't that exciting.

Thanks for the reply. It was informative. I've not thought about Hellickson. He may fit the role needed - stabilizing the forth or fifth spot. I like the idea of allowing ERod to heal and not rush him back up. Kelly to the pen will help and offer a candidate to replace Koji when he retires. Based on the results we've had with positional players coming up I think we don't need to move a valued future piece. I'm open to allowing pitching to be moved - Like Owen, Elias - for an arm as I don't see them being solutions with Boston and may do well in the NL.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

So ... folks ... pitching targets?

Sorry - my on-topic point was that unless they want to bet big on a 2017 bounceback from Gray, they're not likely to find anyone who will solve the rotational issues after this season. I agree that they only need someone like Hellickson or Santana or Hill for the rest of this season, but two of those guys would be rentals and a rotation of Price, Porcello, Wright, Santana, and Rodriguez still looks like it needs reinforcements.

 

[jdpearson2008]

Doesn't it appear that DD has asked around for starting pithching and found that the cost is almost stupid at this point and decided to see if they can get any of their other pitchers righted and wait it out a bit. The cost that Atlanta seems to be asking for Theran is silly and every GM seems to be saying the same thing that starting pitching is extremely costly at this time. I think if the White Sox got realistic that they arent winning anytime soon and put Sale and or Quintana out there DD might back up the truck and go for it but short of that I dont think so. I wont be surprised if there is a bidding war for Hill at the deadline there is just nothing of any quality available this year for anything resembling reasonable prices.

 

[Rasputin]

Doesn't it appear that DD has asked around for starting pithching and found that the cost is almost stupid at this point and decided to see if they can get any of their other pitchers righted and wait it out a bit.

Somewhat, but there are a couple other interpretations that are at least as likely.

1) That the pre-deadline prices are stupid and that DD is banking on the deadline bringing them down a bit.

2) That he has concluded that there is, at most, one pitcher coming back, which means a second pitcher is going to have to come from within.

The cost that Atlanta seems to be asking for Theran is silly and every GM seems to be saying the same thing that starting pitching is extremely costly at this time. I think if the White Sox got realistic that they arent winning anytime soon and put Sale and or Quintana out there DD might back up the truck and go for it but short of that I dont think so. I wont be surprised if there is a bidding war for Hill at the deadline there is just nothing of any quality available this year for anything resembling reasonable prices.

I think it's entirely possible that the Sox don't get a starting pitcher and we have to be okay with that.

 

[jdpearson2008]

I do agree that it is entirely possible due to the costs of starting pitching it is entirely possible that there will not be a starter coming through the door. I also agree that DD is waiting on the market to see if it comes down some but in the meantime ther is roughly 45 days to see if there is an internal option and keep all the prospects. We will see but I don't expect anything happening until right at the deadline if anything.

 

[Rasputin]

I do agree that it is entirely possible due to the costs of starting pitching it is entirely possible that there will not be a starter coming through the door. I also agree that DD is waiting on the market to see if it comes down some but in the meantime ther is roughly 45 days to see if there is an internal option and keep all the prospects. We will see but I don't expect anything happening until right at the deadline if anything.

The thing is, we need two pitchers. Maybe we can find two internal options that work but that seems like a pipe dream at this point.

 

[jdpearson2008]

I really think DD is thinking that Edro can right the ship. Is that realistic I don't know but I think that is what he is thinking some of the recent comments from him seem to lead me to believe this. I think he is going to roll the dice and see what happens there is still time and the Sox are very much in this thing. If it is still a disaster in the 4 and 5 spots 45 days from now then we will see what he does but for now I agree with the wait and see attitude that seems to be coming from Sox front office.

 

[simplicio]

I really think DD is thinking that Edro can right the ship. Is that realistic I don't know but I think that is what he is thinking some of the recent comments from him seem to lead me to believe this. I think he is going to roll the dice and see what happens there is still time and the Sox are very much in this thing. If it is still a disaster in the 4 and 5 spots 45 days from now then we will see what he does but for now I agree with the wait and see attitude that seems to be coming from Sox front office.

You've mentioned 45 days a couple times now; the trade deadline is August 1st.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

I assume this newbie is including waivers, where the market will be even thinner

 

[jdpearson2008]

Yes my bad for not clarifying still don't see anything happening out there just nothing really available without a gross overpay. I don't see anyone caving on there asking price in the next 15 or so days and think there will be a bidding war for anything that does come available.

 

[NoXInNixon]

The thing is, we need two pitchers. Maybe we can find two internal options that work but that seems like a pipe dream at this point.

There are two open rotation spots, but with their offense I think they can get away with adding only one more pitcher, then continuing to try various pieces in the #5 spot to see if anything sticks.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Mortgaging the future for a pitcher is such a risky proposition. Let's take a look at pitchers currently on the DL:

1. I tried to highlight Starters with a WAR >3.0 and Relievers WAR > 1.0 for either 2014 or 2105 in bold (plus Darvish)
2. 60-day DL or greater in red

For me, Free Agency is a better option than packaging high-upside minor leaguers (except for other pitchers) on a gamble that health will hold up

Tim Adleman
Brett Anderson
Henderson Alvarez
Homer Bailey
Aaron Barrett
Yhonathon Barrios
Chris Bassitt
Dallas Beeler
Jessie Biddle
Brad Boxberger
Aaron Brooks
Matt Cain
Carter Capps
Chris Capuano
Andrew Chafin
Tsao Chin-hui
Alex Cobb
Gerrit Cole
Tim Collins
Ryan Cook
Caleb Cotham
Yu Darvish
Rubby De La Rosa
Jairo Diaz
Chris Rusin
Tim Collins
Wade Davis
Sean Doolittle
Felix Doubrant
Brian Duensing
Jon Edwards
Robbie Erlin
Marco Estrada
Scott Feldman
Gavin Floyd
Charlie Furbush (my favorite name ever)
John Gant
Yimi Garcia
Cory Gearrin
Marco Gonzales
Zack Grienke
Jason Hammel
Mitch Harris
Matt Harrison
Matt Harvey
Andrew Heaney
Jim Henderson
Felix Hernandez
Chris Heston
Derek Holland
Phil Hughes
Erik Johnson
Keone Kela
Clayton Kershaw
Craig Kimbrel
Colby Lewis
Lance Lynn
Zach McAllister
TJ McFarland
Andrew McKirahan
Kris Medlen
Justin Miller
Bryan Mitchell
Mike Minor
Franklin Morales
AJ Morris
Bryan Morris
Charlie Morton
Conor Mullee
Joe Nathan
Sean Nolin
Daniel Norris
Darren O'Day
Eric O'Flaherty
Jarrod Parker
Williams Perez
Glen Perkins
Jake Petricka
Branden Pinder
Zach Putnam
Cory Rasmus
Josh Ravin
Clayton Richard
Garret Richards
David Robertson
Carlos Rodon
Fernando Rodriguez
Paco Rodriguez
Trevor Rosenthal
Joe Ross
Tyson Ross
Zac Rosscup
Adrian Sampson
Warwick Saupold
Tanner Scheppers
Evan Scribner
Kevin Siegrist
Shae Simmons
Alfredo Simon
Carson Smith
Noah Syndergaard
Jameson Taillon
Junichi Tazawa
Chin-hui Tsao
Cesar Vargas
Jason Vargas
Drew VerHagen
Nick Vincent
Ryan Volgelsong
Michael Wacha
Jordan Walden
Tiajuan Walker
Daniel Webb
Zack Wheeler
Chase Whitley
CJ Wilson
Daniel Winkler
Alex Wood
Brandon Workman
Jordan Zimmermann
Tony Zych

Ouch.

{edit: I've been informed (thank you) that SOS should be on that list.}

 

[Max Venerable]

Honestly starting to hope the Sox sign a Frontier League guy or something. The Morgan Burkhart of pitchers would be perfect right now. Shit, even pitching Morgan Burkhart himself might be better than what we've got.

 

[nvalvo]

Honestly starting to hope the Sox sign a Frontier League guy or something. The Morgan Burkhart of pitchers would be perfect right now. Shit, even pitching Morgan Burkhart himself might be better than what we've got.

Well, that would have been Wilkerson, but we traded him for Hill.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 3h3 hours ago
I always listen to Pedro Martinez, who thinks Ervin Santana is Boston's best pitching option. No fears about going to AL East...

 

[OptimusPapi]

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 3h3 hours ago
I always listen to Pedro Martinez, who thinks Ervin Santana is Boston's best pitching option. No fears about going to AL East...

I can get behind Santana. He is the definition of back of the rotation which this team needs. Further if Erod can rediscover how to pitch, then our rotation is set next year. Wonder what the cost would be?

 

[PapaSox]

The thing is, we need two pitchers. Maybe we can find two internal options that work but that seems like a pipe dream at this point.

It's funny to hear the constant clamoring about the need to add one or two more pitchers. At the end of last season there were a couple, three posters saying we need one or two more pitchers after Price was signed and they were eaten alive. Imagine how bad things would be if Wright did not come around to be an All-star pitcher. Now, to be honest none of us figured ERod would go down, Kelly would return to his previous self and get hurt and Buchholz would be as bad as he has been. But, still it is a bit funny. Wonder if we had picked up a couple more arms and ate the LT where we would be.

 

[OptimusPapi]

It's funny to hear the constant clamoring about the need to add one or two more pitchers. At the end of last season there were a couple, three posters saying we need one or two more pitchers after Price was signed and they were eaten alive. Imagine how bad things would be if Wright did not come around to be an All-star pitcher. Now, to be honest none of us figured ERod would go down, Kelly would return to his previous self and get hurt and Buchholz would be as bad as he has been. But, still it is a bit funny. Wonder if we had picked up a couple more arms and ate the LT where we would be.

On top of the world, celebrating the fact we locked up the division in July. Or in last place because all our pitchers are ineffective/hurt. Who knows. This kind of wondering is futile. Based on Erods success, and Kelly's strong end to the season, penciling the two of them in wasn't the worst idea. Having Owens, Wright and Johnson wasn't a bad six seven and eight. You don't expand resources just because something maybe might happen. That is a good way not to have resources. Based on the info DD had in October, he made the moves he thought was necessary. The fact that the original three, four, five, seven and eight pitchers got hurt/ineffective is crap luck nothing more.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Pedro's record recommending pitchers to the Sox is not as good as his record recommending hitters.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I'd take Santana in a heartbeat right now and I can't imagine his cost would be much.

 

[alwyn96]

Santana works for me if they can get him cheap. They could probably flip him in the offseason if they wanted to, although he'd still probably be one the Red Sox better pitchers next year. It's not like this year's FA SP market looks that any better.

I almost wonder if the Red Sox should just damn the pitchers and try to bash their way to the playoffs. Maybe they can get Jay Bruce cheaper than any of the the pitchers and flip him in the offseason.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

I'd take Santana in a heartbeat right now and I can't imagine his cost would be much.

Twins are cheap. They need catching and pitching. Offer Leon and Kelly and agree to take on Santana's entire contract.

 

[Rasputin]

It's Doubront.

It's funny to hear the constant clamoring about the need to add one or two more pitchers. At the end of last season there were a couple, three posters saying we need one or two more pitchers after Price was signed and they were eaten alive. Imagine how bad things would be if Wright did not come around to be an All-star pitcher. Now, to be honest none of us figured ERod would go down, Kelly would return to his previous self and get hurt and Buchholz would be as bad as he has been. But, still it is a bit funny. Wonder if we had picked up a couple more arms and ate the LT where we would be.

The situation now is not the situation then.

Then we had whatever it was, nine candidates for the rotation. Bringing in two more didn't make any sense. An inordinate number of them have failed, leaving us with three, maybe four starting pitchers.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

Santana works for me if they can get him cheap. They could probably flip him in the offseason if they wanted to, although he'd still probably be one the Red Sox better pitchers next year. It's not like this year's FA SP market looks that any better.

I almost wonder if the Red Sox should just damn the pitchers and try to bash their way to the playoffs. Maybe they can get Jay Bruce cheaper than any of the the pitchers and flip him in the offseason.

I like the idea of acquiring Bruce for LF. The problem is, I don't think he will come cheap. The Reds will want at least Kopech or Devers (I presume) if not one of the top three. The fact that the Reds have held on to Bruce this long suggests they have a high asking price.

I was hoping they would acquire C.Gonzalez from the Rockies as a kind of salary dump but that isn't going to fly--the Rockies want a legitimate prospect. The one guy they probably could acquire without giving up much (in terms of prospects) is Ryan Braun, but we all know the issues there.

As far as steroid-user Ervin Santana goes, he would probably be relatively easy to acquire but I don't like the money remaining on his contract. I wouldn't rule him out completely but I would rather find a 4th or 5th starter who doesn't cost 13.5 m for the next two years (2017 & 2018) and possibly three (vesting option). It isn't an outrageous sum, but it is more than I would want to pay for a guy who is already 33 years old with mediocre peripherals.

 

[Wayapman]

Are there any indications as to what Oakland's asking price for Sonny Gray would be? Would a package built around Devers even get the conversation started? Something like Devers, Owens, Trey Ball? My prospect value meter is broken so please refrain from killing me if I'm way off base. I was curious if you guys felt there was a way to pry away Gray without including the big 3 given his current struggles.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Highly unlikely the Sox could get Gray without including one of the top prospects given how slim the market is this year. And it's questionable how much he would help at that cost as he's having a rough season.

 

[simplicio]

Are there any indications as to what Oakland's asking price for Sonny Gray would be? Would a package built around Devers even get the conversation started? Something like Devers, Owens, Trey Ball? My prospect value meter is broken so please refrain from killing me if I'm way off base. I was curious if you guys felt there was a way to pry away Gray without including the big 3 given his current struggles.

I guess my question is why you'd want him now. As noted, given his season I'm not certain he'd be an upgrade. And while he's underperforming his peripherals currently, you'd still be paying based on the overvalued perception set last year and his youth. I'd be much more interested in someone with fewer question marks like Santana.

Not sure why you're downgrading Devers out of the big 4 either. He's every bit the prospect Espinosa is; they're both young and a ways away still but absolutely worth holding on to unless we're talking about trading for proven aces.

 

[j44thor]

Quite possible there is now a top 5 with Kopech hitting 99 last night with 10K's in 5 scoreless.

Problem is that after the top 5 you have basically a bunch of C level prospects. They are either unproven, or aren't having a great year or both. Sam Travis may have been that key trade chip for bullpen help, too bad he is out.

I'm not sure there will be an available arm worth one of the top 5 and I'm not sure you can get someone that is an obvious upgrade with anything else.

 

[chief1]

Quite possible there is now a top 5 with Kopech hitting 99 last night with 10K's in 5 scoreless.

Problem is that after the top 5 you have basically a bunch of C level prospects. They are either unproven, or aren't having a great year or both. Sam Travis may have been that key trade chip for bullpen help, too bad he is out.

I'm not sure there will be an available arm worth one of the top 5 and I'm not sure you can get someone that is an obvious upgrade with anything else.

Are teams prohibited from trading players who are on the DL?