Ranking the teams in the AFC

rodderick

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Chemistry Schmemistry said:
   

Kansas City's loss is Miami's gain in this case. It would be hard to isolate the continuity argument for offensive lines. How much of that is real and how much is media? I don't doubt it's a factor.

Brady had an elite stretch in games 9-12 (Pittsburgh, Carolina, Denver, Houston), but otherwise was very much below average (he was very good in week 4 against Atlanta, too). He's 37 now, which is younger than Manning, but still at an age where sudden drop-offs are fairly frequent. So, why would I say Manning won't falter while Brady's faltering last year is the new norm? Just part of my personal superstition, I guess. I hate expecting the moon and ending up disappointed. Better it be a pleasant surprise.
 
You do realize that Brady started 2013 without 4 of his top 5 receiving options from the year prior (Welker, Hernandez, Woodhead and Lloyd), and that the only guy remaining (Gronk) started the year injured and then got hurt again, right? You are also aware that the Patriots not only started 2 rookies at wide receiver, but that one of the veterans they brought in to stabilize the position got hurt in Week 1 and was never the same, not to mention Vereen being banged up for an extended period of time? That's not even counting the fact that he dealt with a well documented injury in his hand that made it look like a grapefruit at times. There's also the issue of Hernandez, an integral part of the offense being arrested in training camp, and they having to pretty much eliminate the TE position from their playbook altogether, dramatically changing the system they had in place since about 2010. 
 
Which of those extenuating circumstances, or something even remotely close to them, will be present this season? I'm not saying Brady was at the very top of his game last season, because I don't think that's accurate, but when you pin the passing game's struggles on Brady you ignore all the shitshow that was going on around him at the time. It's fair to wonder, based on his age, if he'll be as good in 2014 as he has been in the past, but I don't think 2013 holds any predictive value in regards to his performance, seeing as so much happened that it's almost impossible to figure out how much an eventual decline in his skills had to with their struggles (which, by the way, still amounted to a top 3 scoring offense and a trip to the AFCCG).
 

Stitch01

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Pretty much, might be similar talent levels.  Not quite as good on offense, but much higher ceiling on defense.  Don't love the front seven depth, especially at LB, but wouldn't be surprised at all if this was a top 3 defense with good health.
 

rodderick

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Stitch01 said:
Pretty much, might be similar talent levels.  Not quite as good on offense, but much higher ceiling on defense.
 
Much tougher schedule, though. The Pats in '08 faced the AFC and NFC West, which were like the two worst divisions in football at the time.
 

Tony C

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Jungleland said:
 
 
 
Bold(ish) predictions:
 
-Jacksonville finishes the year with Bortles starting, playing very well, and legitimate hope for 2015 in a division that suddenly appears wide open.
-Geno emerges as the clear #2 QB in the East, Jets are sunk by a weak defensive backfield rather than lack of offensive production
-Fitzpatrick Alex Smiths the Texans to a division win as the Clownified defensive line is even better than advertised
-In a reverse of last year, Denver wins the regular season Pats matchup but is beaten in the playoffs 
 
I like a lot of these predictions. And have to admit that while I agree with and enjoy the shitting on the Jets, I do think Geno will be the 2nd best QB in the division and could be a bit above average overall. Hence I think they'll be 8-8, despite their other well-documented woes.
 

Kliq

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Tony C said:
 
I like a lot of these predictions. And have to admit that while I agree with and enjoy the shitting on the Jets, I do think Geno will be the 2nd best QB in the division and could be a bit above average overall. Hence I think they'll be 8-8, despite their other well-documented woes.
 
Agreed. As much as I like to poke fun on the Jets, that team won 8 games last season without any real skill position players. They have improved their offense some, so I wouldn't be surprised if they made a run at the playoffs.
 

mauf

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Tony C said:
 
I like a lot of these predictions. And have to admit that while I agree with and enjoy the shitting on the Jets, I do think Geno will be the 2nd best QB in the division and could be a bit above average overall. Hence I think they'll be 8-8, despite their other well-documented woes.
"2nd best QB in the division" sounds impressive; "better than Ryan Tannehill and E.J. Manuel" doesn't.

And I don't think he'll be better than Tannehill.
 

rodderick

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Be sure to hang aroung here, j-man! Looking forward to a rematch with the Broncos in the AFCCG, will be awaiting some insight from you on them over the course of the season.
 
Tony C said:
 
I like a lot of these predictions. And have to admit that while I agree with and enjoy the shitting on the Jets, I do think Geno will be the 2nd best QB in the division and could be a bit above average overall. Hence I think they'll be 8-8, despite their other well-documented woes.
 
Boy, Geno would have to improve a LOT to have the season Tannehill had in 2013 (with an utter shitshow of an OL, by the way). 
 

coremiller

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Kliq said:
 
Agreed. As much as I like to poke fun on the Jets, that team won 8 games last season without any real skill position players. They have improved their offense some, so I wouldn't be surprised if they made a run at the playoffs.
 
The Jets were extremely lucky last season.  They had the point differential of a 5.4 win team, and they got blown out by heavyweights like Buffalo, Tennessee, and Miami.  They were 24th in DVOA.  They could be better this year and still finish 6-10.  Unless you think Geno is really going to make the leap, the Jets are not a playoff contender.  And Geno making the leap seems unlikely, he was really awful last season -- 37th in ANY/A, 37th in passer rating, 36th in QBR, 43rd in DYAR, 40th in DVOA.  He was maybe the worst regular starter in the NFL last season.  Even becoming slightly below average would represent a big improvement for him, and that probably wouldn't be good enough to get the Jets to 7 wins.
 

bakahump

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So uh Welker.....ok so it wasnt concussions that got him.  Probably "best case" as this allows his bell to stop ringing while he sits.  Still without Welker and Trevathan....thats big losses (Gronk and Mayo equivalents??) for the first 4.
 

Royal Reader

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coremiller said:
 
The Jets were extremely lucky last season.  They had the point differential of a 5.4 win team, and they got blown out by heavyweights like Buffalo, Tennessee, and Miami.  They were 24th in DVOA.  They could be better this year and still finish 6-10.  Unless you think Geno is really going to make the leap, the Jets are not a playoff contender.  And Geno making the leap seems unlikely, he was really awful last season -- 37th in ANY/A, 37th in passer rating, 36th in QBR, 43rd in DYAR, 40th in DVOA.  He was maybe the worst regular starter in the NFL last season.  Even becoming slightly below average would represent a big improvement for him, and that probably wouldn't be good enough to get the Jets to 7 wins.
Barnwell makes the interesting point that, although they were incredibly 'lucky' in terms of winning close games, they also had terrible luck on fumble recoveries... they recovered something like 2/18 of the fumbles their defense forced.

Key point though - it's hard to see how their defense hasn't got worse, the good players on the O-line are another year older etc.  The D-Line is the only unit on the team that is above average.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Agreed.  Geno had a few good games last year; that said, his overall performance and decision making were very poor.  I would be pretty surprised if he catches Tannehill this year, and it's questionable if he ever will as he is way behind right now.  Complicating that further, he's in a so-so system for a so-so offensive set of coaches, with mediocre weapons....while the line is solid all the other enablers of offensive success are weaker in NY than in Miami,
 
Jets could be a .500 team, but if so it'll be because the defense overachieves and they control the ball, I think.   It's really optimistic to project their offense to be even league-average right now
 

coremiller

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The only thing Geno had going for him is that he was high variance -- rather than being consistently slightly awful, he alternated between basically average and utterly horrendous.  He had 7 game with a passer rating of 79 or better, but he had 6 games with a passer rating of 52 or lower, including 4 with a rating of 27 or lower.  In those six games, he 0 TDs and 13 INTs, and not surprisingly the Jets lost all six by a combined score of 154-75.  If he can cut out the true stinkers and be merely below average in his worst games while still being average or better half the time, that will be a big improvement.
 

redsahx

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Coming in late so I'll hit on some key discussion points first:

- (Jets) I think both Geno and Mark Sanchez were underrated the last two years due to the incredibly weak supporting cast on offense, which makes it hard to properly judge them. Both had some flaws, but not enough help to ever put together some big games to show what they're capable of. Neither Decker nor Chris Johnson figure to be huge difference makers, but they still represent some improvement. Still they overacheived with 8 wins last year, and I think 9 wins would be their absolute ceiling this season.

- (Pats/Broncos) Love the offseason both teams had, and the difference between these two is within the noise. Emmanuel Sanders was a great pickup for the Broncos on top of everyone else, and while they likely won't match the statistical production they had on offense last year, they don't need to. Even if Welker is diminished, Manning was able to make do with Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie and Jacob Tamme a few years back in Indy when the injury bug had bitten hard. A guy like Caldwell or Lattimer or Burse can likely step up alongside Thomas, Thomas and Sanders. Meanwhile this is the best Pats defense on paper since they last won the Super Bowl. I keep feeling better and better about the Pats offense as time goes on as well, and think it will be much closer to the group we saw in games 9-12 last year than the rest of the season. I just see the Pats matching up well with Denver, but kudos to John Elway for setting the right tone in the offseason following that demoralizing Super Bowl.

- (Indy) Agree that teams like Cincy and Baltimore are probably better overall, but the Colts will probably be a top 3 seed based on their schedule. With Wayne back, the addition of Nicks and Moncrief at receiver, and the tight end combo being whole again with Allen back, I see Luck taking another step forward. Like everyone else, I ultimately see their O-Line and defense being shaky enough to get exploited by the Broncos or Patriots come playoff time.

Predicted order of finish:
1. Broncos
1a Pats ** Super Bowl Pick
3. Indy (based on record only, not necessarily talent)
4. Cincy - Dalton isn't a star, but I think he'll still improve slightly.
5. Baltimore - Not that high on the Ravens, but with Dennis Pitta back for a full season, the addition of Steve Smith and an intriguing new O-coordinator in Gary Kubiak, they should improve enough offensively to compliment a solid if no longer elite defense.
6. San Diego - I'll buy into the hype of them as a sleeper because they finished strong last year, and I think they can sweep both KC and Oakland and probably take 3 of 4 from the AFC East.
------
7. Houston - Intriguing talent on defense with the return of Brian Cushing and addition of Clowney. Even with uncertainty at QB, they have Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, Garrett Graham, and a good offensive mind in Bill O'Brien that makes me think they should be adequate at worst on that side of the ball, and therefore in the hunt for a playoff spot.
8. Pittsburgh - Big Ben is enough by himself to get this team to 7-8 wins. Then it will just be a matter of how much they can improve defensively.
9. Miami - I'll go with them as #2 in the AFC East for now. Solid pass rush and a good corner in Grimes. I still think Tannehill can be a decent QB, but I am curious about the O-Line.
10. KC - Too much turnover from last year. I just don't like that offense with a shaky line protecting Smith.
11. Tennessee - Might be better than I am giving them credit for, but I don't see much defensively.
12. Jets - A bit better on paper, but still might not have a better record than last year.
13. Bills - Hope I am wrong on this one because I have a soft spot for Bills fans, and I do think their defense is legit. I am curious to see if this offense is really going to struggle as much as some people fear it will.
14. Cle - If Josh Gordon were playing I could see them being a pleasant surprise. Now their only real offensive threat is at TE in Cameron. Neither Hoyer nor Manziel can be expected to do much here. Obviously the defense is pretty good though.
15. Jax - I am not as down on the Jaguars and Raiders as many, even though I can't rank them higher than I have here. Jacksonville is moving in the right direction and they had an intriguing draft. They have a decent defense and a higher celing on offense than the Raiders so I put them a spot ahead.
16. Oakland - Initially their offseason looked like it would be a disaster, but in the end they did OK. The signings of Tuck, Woodley, James Jones and Maurice Jones Drew were solid if not spectacular. I like the Mack pick and obviously Derek Carr was a good value for them in the second round and gives some reason for optimism moving forward.
 

Tony C

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maufman said:
"2nd best QB in the division" sounds impressive; "better than Ryan Tannehill and E.J. Manuel" doesn't.

And I don't think he'll be better than Tannehill.
 
Heh, this is true. Legit debate between Tannehill and Geno as guy most likely to take a step up and claim the coveted "2nd best QB in the AFC East" crown. Manuel really just seems to be confirmed as awful. Replaceable by Kyle Orton-level awful. The poor Bills, those fans really deserve better.
 

Stitch01

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I dont think Tannehill is that bad to be honest.  WIll be interested to see what he does if they ever get a non-disaster OL together in Miami.
 
Orton starting for Buffalo, just for this season, might take them to a second place finish in the division.  Manuel busting is a catastrophe for actually winning something of importance any time soon though.