RealFantasy AFC North Discussion and Breakdown

Who's the division champ?

  • Bengals

    Votes: 13 59.1%
  • Ravens

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Steelers

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Browns

    Votes: 7 31.8%

  • Total voters
    22

SeoulSoxFan

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soxfan121 said:
2. The underrated team here in this division is Nomario's Ravens. And I think my team would have been beaten soundly at least once by SSF's Steelers due to their running game. 
 
Thanks for the bone SF121, but my squad is competing for 3rd/4th spot here and a long-shot at a WC due to the poor line play. 
 
I'm still happy that I've gotten the toughest positions figured out though, at least on offense on QB, LT and #1 wide-out for years to come.
 

Super Nomario

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
 
Switch the top 2 you fucking idiot.
I have the Bengals as slightly ahead of you guys, but I'm tempted to vote for the Browns so you end up getting stuck with Jimmy Garappolo or something in the supplemental draft. Or would you rather take another ride on the Blaine Train or the Fitzpatrick Express?
 

Phragle

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Switch the top 2 you fucking idiot.
Super Nomario said:
I have the Bengals as slightly ahead of you guys, but I'm tempted to vote for the Browns so you end up getting stuck with Jimmy Garappolo or something in the supplemental draft. Or would you rather take another ride on the Blaine Train or the Fitzpatrick Express?
 
My bottom three are interchangeable but I think the Bengals did just enough to separate.
 

SMU_Sox

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I can understand us coming in 2nd. If we started the year off with Gabbert and Jon Cyprien and it took us 2-3 games to make that switch I still feel we'd easily by the #5 seed but maybe we finish up 11-5 and the Bengals go 12-4. I think with all the right pieces going into the playoffs on a defensive team we could win on the road much like the Steelers, Giants, and Packers teams did in their respective years.
 

soxfan121

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Super Nomario said:
I have the Bengals as slightly ahead of you guys, but I'm tempted to vote for the Browns so you end up getting stuck with Jimmy Garappolo or something in the supplemental draft. Or would you rather take another ride on the Blaine Train or the Fitzpatrick Express?
 
C'mon man. Let them talk themselves into the 26th pick so they can be the 2000s Chicago Bears* - very good defense, revolving shitty door at QB. 
 
Tyler Wilson II: Electric Boogaloo!
 
*wait for it...
 

SMU_Sox

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I'd be ok with a good pick but... even with RFP (R-Fitz?) I just don't think anyone here would buy that.
 

Phragle

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I messed up and voted for the Browns instead of the Bengals.
 
Can we make the votes public so we can count only league votes?
 

Super Nomario

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phragle said:
I messed up and voted for the Browns instead of the Bengals.
 
Can we make the votes public so we can count only league votes?
I don't see the option to do that. Are we just counting league votes? I don't think it matters, anyway.
 

Phragle

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Super Nomario said:
I don't see the option to do that. Are we just counting league votes? I don't think it matters, anyway.
 
It think there should be a little box at the top you can check to make it public.
 
I just worry that in a close division like this some non-league votes could affect the outcome. Look at the votes in the AFC East thread. Eck has like 4 votes from posters I haven't even heard of, and they voted the Bills the worst. That doesn't make sense to me.
 

Super Nomario

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phragle said:
 
It think there should be a little box at the top you can check to make it public.
 
I just worry that in a close division like this some non-league votes could affect the outcome. Look at the votes in the AFC East thread. Eck has like 4 votes from posters I haven't even heard of, and they voted the Bills the worst. That doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see it. Maybe it's not in Chrome, or maybe it's not available now that people have voted on it.
 
I'm all for letting anyone vote anyway. Did we ever decide on that as a league?
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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phragle said:
 
It think there should be a little box at the top you can check to make it public.
 
I just worry that in a close division like this some non-league votes could affect the outcome. Look at the votes in the AFC East thread. Eck has like 4 votes from posters I haven't even heard of, and they voted the Bills the worst. That doesn't make sense to me.
The Bills had picks that weren't in the draft. I think one guy voted for the Bills last other than Red. Its obvious what you're insinuating and I find it insulting.
 

Phragle

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
The Bills had picks that weren't in the draft. I think one guy voted for the Bills last other than Red. Its obvious what you're insinuating and I find it insulting.
I'm not insinuating anything I'm simply bringing up facts
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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phragle said:
I'm not insinuating anything I'm simply bringing up facts
 
If only they were accurate. I like you, but your being phragle. Dial it down a little.
 
I think anyone should be able to vote, but I encourage the people who do pick teams to give an explanation as to why they voted the way they did.
 

soxfan121

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SMU_Sox said:
Seriously? How the hell do we finish last?
 
I was moved by KFP's "this shit is unfair" argument and was just trying to lower your co-efficient so you'd get a better draft pick. 
 
Really, it was a vote in your best interests. And not because I wasn't really paying attention when I clicked "vote".
 

Phragle

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
 
If only they were accurate. I like you, but your being phragle. Dial it down a little.
 
I think anyone should be able to vote, but I encourage the people who do pick teams to give an explanation as to why they voted the way they did.
I see what you're talking about now. My original statement was worded weird. I was driving when i wrote it. Still am. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I think there was a non-owner vote for the bills as well.

If someone wants to vote I think that's fine if they support it. Otherwise I would doubt they have enough league wide knowledge to make an informed vote.

When I saw your patriots had a bunch of non-owner votes my first though was "well these randoms are voting for the patriots because it's a patriots board" not "Eck is being a sneaky cunt"
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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phragle said:
I see what you're talking about now. My original statement was worded weird. I was driving when i wrote it. Still am. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I think there was a non-owner vote for the bills as well.

If someone wants to vote I think that's fine if they support it. Otherwise I would doubt they have enough league wide knowledge to make an informed vote.

When I saw your patriots had a bunch of non-owner votes my first though was "well these randoms are voting for the patriots because it's a patriots board" not "Eck is being a sneaky cunt"
 
Fair enough. I may be a miserable cunt who likes to argue, but I'm not under-handed.
 

DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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I've got a buddy who has been following this pretty closely since the beginning and is voting along. I'm assuming anyone else who has spent the time to venture in here would be the same. 
 
I don't expect him to vote for my team, though there are plenty of teams in this league with two owners and two votes.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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This vote makes no sense to me. The Browns have the better run game, better oline and a way better overall defense but the Bengals are running away with this because they have Tommy Boy...
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
This vote makes no sense to me. The Browns have the better run game, better oline and a way better overall defense but the Bengals are running away with this because they have Tommy Boy...
 
And you expected differently becauuussee...?
 

Phragle

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
This vote makes no sense to me. The Browns have the better run game, better oline and a way better overall defense but the Bengals are running away with this because they have Tommy Boy...
 
They should have taken Foles.
 

SMU_Sox

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What can I say - Eck, I think this team could wreak havoc if it made it to the playoffs. We have 3 pass rushers and one guy who routinely pushes/collapses the pocket but doesn't quite get to the QB. 2/3 LB's are good to HoF great. We have a rangy FS and 2 good CB's. Our WLB, 3rd CB, and SS are weak. But when you consider the starting members of our secondary we are definitely above average overall. Combine that with our pass rush and possibly the best overall non pass rushing LB in the game? I just don't see how 5 people voted for us to finish last.
 
Mark Sanchez got to the AFC title game twice. And our O-Line is going to give Fitzpatrick a ton of time for our WR's and RB's to get open. If we dominant the trenches on both sides of the ball I don't see how we'd even have a losing record let alone worst in the division. 
 
RFP's Titan's offense, which imo isn't as good as ours, averaged 21.3 PPG and they played against some decent opponents. Our defense is going to allow 19 PPG or less (Yes, I think we're a top 5 defense). All RFP has to do is score 20-24 PPG and I think we win most games.
 
I see our offense averaging 23-24 ppg and winning a lot of 24-17 types of games. You want to stack 8 in the box? That's great we can counter that with Bowe, Jennings, and Tamme. Hopefully we draft a good QB this year and then I can't imagine us not winning. 
 
Edit: Actually, don't stop. She needs the cardio.
No, I am sober. Will I be sober in a few hours? Good Lord no. Am I really fucking bored today at work? Did I fart?
 

Super Nomario

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First of all, I agree that your team isn't a bottom feeder. But I do have some bones to pick.
 
SMU_Sox said:
Mark Sanchez got to the AFC title game twice. And our O-Line is going to give Fitzpatrick a ton of time for our WR's and RB's to get open. If we dominant the trenches on both sides of the ball I don't see how we'd even have a losing record let alone worst in the division. 
I don't see the dominant OL you do. Your tackles are great, with Roos a solid vet and Glenn an emerging star. But your interior is a question mark. Gradkowski was not good. Rinehart is just a guy, and he missed 6 weeks. Asamoah is your best interior guy, but he basically didn't play after week 11 due to injury. You're going to have a lot of trouble handling players like Ngata and Cofield on my team and Cam Jordan on SF121s. And Tamme can't block and Potter didn't impress in limited time.
 
SMU_Sox said:
RFP's Titan's offense, which imo isn't as good as ours, averaged 21.3 PPG and they played against some decent opponents. Our defense is going to allow 19 PPG or less (Yes, I think we're a top 5 defense). All RFP has to do is score 20-24 PPG and I think we win most games.
You have a better RT and better RBs than Tennessee. The Titans have much better TEs and a better interior OL. Washington and Wright had more receiving yards and better PFF scores than Bowe and Jennings; neither your Browns nor the real-life Titans has much of a third option.
 

soxfan121

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SMU_Sox said:
Mark Sanchez got to the AFC title game twice. And our O-Line is going to give Fitzpatrick a ton of time for our WR's and RB's to get open. If we dominant the trenches on both sides of the ball I don't see how we'd even have a losing record let alone worst in the division. 
 
RFP's Titan's offense, which imo isn't as good as ours, averaged 21.3 PPG and they played against some decent opponents. Our defense is going to allow 19 PPG or less (Yes, I think we're a top 5 defense). All RFP has to do is score 20-24 PPG and I think we win most games.
 
This gonna come off bitchy but since you've chosen to cast your lot with 18%, I hope you can see that only half of it is really aimed at you....
 
Why do you keep ignoring Blaine Gabbert and Tyler Wilson? What was your record in those games? Had you not had the supplemental draft to take TWO more shitbags, you would have gotten a 0 from the QB position - would you still be arguing your offense is averaging 20-24 a game with a blank space at QB? What would you have averaged in the games Gabbert played? Are you seriously suggesting that you, the RFP team, after all your crowing about Tyler Wilson didn't start him in a few games before going to Gabbert (for a few more games) and finally settling for Fitzy?
 
Look, your defense is really good. And one of those votes that puts you last is a mistake I acknowledged upthread. But your QB situation is a fucking mess. And no, just postulating that you & KFP are so brilliant as to KNOW the first two QBs you took were shit in the preseason meant that you went with Fitzy and then "won most of your games" is not honest. 
 
I'd really like to take your arguments seriously but I cannot. You are willfully ignoring the morass of shittiness you created at the most important position and arguing your 3rd stringer would have carried you to 20-24 points per game and you would have won "most" of them. That's patently ridiculous. 
 
I'd have lots more respect for your argument if you simply acknowledged that you suffered through 8 weeks of the Wilson/Gabbert pu-pu platter before turning to Fitzy in the last 8, where you went 6-2 (with two bad losses due to Fitzy picks/brain farts). 
 
And I'd have lots more respect for KFP's whining campaign about how the back end drafters got boned if you two weren't simultaneously arguing that you drafted a good enough team to win a Super Bowl. 
 
FWIW, I have the Browns making the playoffs in the AFC as the 6th seed/second wildcard. Even with the problems you had at QB. And I don't doubt that with the right matchup, the Browns might win a game or two. But that would make you a team that deserves a draft pick in the 20s. So...fucking decide whether your guys are the best or whether you got fucked by the draft but please stop making both arguments at the same time. 
 

SMU_Sox

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Fair enough - I think when we drafted Wilson we made a huge mistake. I'll take responsibility for that. KFP and I tossed between BG and RFP for starting QB. While we might have started Gabbey in games 1 or 2 we absolutely would not have started Wilson. Let's say we go 0-2 and then play RFP. Because, let's face it, BG was terrible early and often. We'd have made the switch because RFP looked better and BG was on a short leash for us. So say we go 10-4 with RFP. That gives us a 10-6 record. Maybe we even win a game with BG and go 11-5. Fine. Either way we don't win the division and we draft in the 20's if this is the NFL. 
 
I can accept that. 
 
As for whether or not we deserve a top pick? I don't know. We drafted in an awkward spot. None of the top QB's remained and very few of the 2nd tiered guys would have been available had we not picked someone. But the value for our 1st rounded would have been nil picking a QB at that point. When we did the supplemental round we wanted to take Vick or Palmer. They got snatched up. But, I think we did a good job with our team building in spite of our draft position. I don't know what we deserve. I didn't make that argument, KFP did. I'm saying that objectively I think, and I said this up thread, I can concede the division but consider us as a legit title game contender based on a very good D plus a strong O-Line and running game.
 

soxfan121

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Goddamnit John, that's a rational and reasonable take. I wanted to have an irrational and unreasonable argument. Can you get KFP to step in? Thanks.
 

soxfan121

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Playoff teams pick in the 20s. 
 
Look, you had opportunities to pick QBs. You passed on Rivers and Cutler to take Willis. You passed on Alex Smith to take Johnson. You passed on Foles to take Kyle Williams ANd Carlos Dunlap. You repeatedly chose to take the best available defensive player and built a monster defense as a result. You got - by your own admission - a borderline HOF player in the first round. You then chose to build around him and passed, repeatedly, on dwindling QB assets. You gambled on a rookie unknown and then followed that up with not the "system guy" you've been touting but an (at that point) known shitty starter (Gabbert). 
 
Did the guys drafting between 20-32 have fewer no-brainer choices to make? Sure. Was there NOTHING of value in those picks? Hardly. You took chicken shit and made chicken salad, by focusing on defense. But let's not pretend that wasn't YOUR CHOICE. Coulda had Rivers. Or Cutler. Or Foles. Or Tannehill. Or Schaub. Or Dalton. You chose to go defense, early and often. And your combined football acumen and knowledge built a team that would definitely give any offense in the league headaches.
 
If you want to argue that in the next iteration of this exercise that you and everyone else from 21 to 32 should get 1-11, I'd be fine with that. But let's not pretend that starting a franchise with a HOF caliber LB, a pro bowl caliber pass rusher, an excellent DT and a second talented pass rusher was a handicap or a "screw job". Y'all definitely deserve credit for building an awesome defense with your picks and maybe even some 'degree-of-difficulty' adjustments but you don't deserve to be recognized as a "SB contender" AND as a "tyrannized by the people with the high draft picks". You got #21 and #40something. You made choices. They turned out well. Your team was very good. And so, you get a pick in the 20s. 
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
FWIW, in all honesty...
 
I see this team has a mid/late 2000's Baltimore Ravens type team. Dominant defense that a team may be able to ride to the SuperBowl. I don't think there's any question that, without a better QB, we aren't SuperBowl bound. The league is too QB driven. For every Trent Dilfer lead Super Bowl team, there's dozens of good/great defenses that can't carry their team over the hump.
 
 
soxfan121 said:
 
 
And I'd have lots more respect for KFP's whining campaign about how the back end drafters got boned if you two weren't simultaneously arguing that you drafted a good enough team to win a Super Bowl. 
 
 
So why don't you and phragle learn to read and shut the fuck up, huh?
 

SMU_Sox

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Let's not forget that Foles, Rivers (coming off 2 bad years), and everyone else was a huge gamble. I don't know where we deserve to pick. I like the idea that we should flip the order on it's head going forward but that would put us in a better position than the 20s. I don't have a hard opinion on where we deserve to draft. I'm open to all arguments. To me this is more of a discussion than a debate. It could turn into a debate but righ nnow I just don't have a firm feeling.i do think 10-6 is our record. That's really the only thing I have a firm opinion on.
 

soxfan121

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Dominant defense that a team may be able to ride to the SuperBowl. 
 
I don't know where I got the idea you thought this was a Super Bowl quality team. Oh yeah. RIGHT BEFORE THE PART YOU BOLDED. 
 
And impugning my reading comprehension? That's just 18% awesome. You can't even read the post you wrote, jerkstore.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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soxfan121 said:
 
I don't know where I got the idea you thought this was a Super Bowl quality team. Oh yeah. RIGHT BEFORE THE PART YOU BOLDED. 
 
And impugning my reading comprehension? That's just 18% awesome. You can't even read the post you wrote, jerkstore.
 
Wait. What's ambiguous about "I don't think there's any question that, without a better QB, we aren't SuperBowl bound."?
 
Seriously. You're being a donkey. It's not fun. It's not clever. Its obnoxious.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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phragle said:
The Ravens picked 31st and didn't whine about it
 
Show me where I whined about not picking early.
 
Not where I pointed out that our team being able to pick early is debateable.
 
Go ahead.
 
(Hint. You can't. You and SF121 are to this process what CHB is to New England. Kill yourselves).
 

soxfan121

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@phragle - don't bother. We've already established that KFP can't read what he wrote, so OF COURSE he's unaware of his whining about where his team picked. It's a waste of time and just results in being called a donkey or something equally lame. 
 
I mean, it could be a Super Bowl team. But not with the QB. So give him a top ten pick for a QB and he'll REALLY kick our donkeys. 
 
Jesus H. Christ KFP, you are a touchy, whiny bitch. Your PFF score for trash talk is -100.
 

SMU_Sox

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Eh, this is escalating quickly. Let's all smoke some peace pipe and calm down. I'll light it, ok?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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soxfan121 said:
@phragle - don't bother. We've already established that KFP can't read what he wrote, so OF COURSE he's unaware of his whining about where his team picked. It's a waste of time and just results in being called a donkey or something equally lame. 
 
I mean, it could be a Super Bowl team. But not with the QB. So give him a top ten pick for a QB and he'll REALLY kick our donkeys. 
 
Jesus H. Christ KFP, you are a touchy, whiny bitch. Your PFF score for trash talk is -100.
 
I'm waiting for you to cite one post.
 
Keep up the strawman shit. I thought this forum grew past it.
 
Saying that I would support a reverse draft in year two isn't me whining or begging for a top pick. Me saying I have a good defense that is a QB away from a Superbowl isn't whining.
 
You really need to get your head out of your ass, because you're turning into RBYB part II.
 

soxfan121

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SMU_Sox said:
Eh, this is escalating quickly. Let's all smoke some peace pipe and calm down. I'll light it, ok?
 
 
SMU_Sox said:
Peace pipe intervention time! SMU to the rescue!
 
Hey, in case I wasn't clear earlier - you guys did a good job of assembling a playoff team out of an initial draft with a tough draft position. It is harder to build a great defense than it is to build a great offense. For obvious reasons. Long term, the Browns are set up well to compete with the Ravens and Steelers in this division. You guys have 3 seasons to find a QB while drafting in a "playoff position" before Brady retires. And five years from now, I am sure I will be begging to trade teams or have a new draft or be blessed with another top 5 pick. 
 
That was some good peace pipe. Here you go KFP...
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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soxfan121 said:
 
That was some good peace pipe. Here you go KFP...
 
I hope you die in a dumpster fire.
 
Kidding?
 
Honestly, you know I love you and I think you're a hot shit in this forum. Ditto for Phragle. I'll take some time from this process and regroup, because I'm obviously being too touchy.
 
TBH, I'm not trying to slant this process in one direction or another. The only thing I argued vehemently for was not being able to draft multiple QB's in the draft, because we planned our draft around drafting multiple QB's and the vote happened after the draft started.
 
Other than that? I'm cool with getting thrown into draft purgatory in the middle of the draft. I don't think we should win the division, and I don't think we're the worst team in the league. There are plenty of good rookie QB's coming out of the draft this year. Let's see where we shake out next year.